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Gainesy
11th Dec 2007, 15:34
Anybody know when the continious central white line, to indicate unsafe to overtake. was introduced?

I have some old, undated aerial pics of Gainesy Towers, left by the previous owner and am attempting to figure when they were taken.

tony draper
11th Dec 2007, 15:43
Read somewhere that rules of the road of any kind did not come in until the late twenties after a year when about five thousand people were killed in road accidents,pretty horrific figures when you consider how few cars were on the road compared to now,so don't suppose the road markings became common until the thirties.
One shall do some googlin on your behalf Mr G.
:rolleyes:

Gainesy
11th Dec 2007, 15:48
I think it was sometime in the mid-60s but I'd like to be a bit more accurate than that.

tony draper
11th Dec 2007, 15:51
Well one has found this.
n England, the idea of painting a centre white line was first experimented in 1921 in Sutton Coldfield, Birmingham. Following complaints by residents over reckless driving and several collisions, the Sutton Coldfield Corporation decided to paint the line on Maney Corner in the area of Maney.[2]

In 1971, a correspondent for the Sutton Coldfield News wrote an article in the newspaper recalling the event.
The line was put down as an experiment as there were a lot of accidents there, even in the early days of the motor car. The experiment proved to be so successful that the whole country adopted it as a standard road safety device, and later foreign countries put white line on their roads, too.

Interestingly the French were the first with road signs,they had one every twenty yards along the kerb that said "PEE HERE",in French of course.
:rolleyes:

Gainesy
11th Dec 2007, 16:06
Sorry Tony I meant the double continious line for "no overtaking".:O

tony draper
11th Dec 2007, 16:11
Buggah!! is that what those lines mean.:rolleyes:

sitigeltfel
11th Dec 2007, 16:13
Tear along the dotted line;

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee201/sitigeltfel/Centreline.jpg

UniFoxOs
11th Dec 2007, 16:16
I learnt to drive in 1962 and I think they had only just been introduced then.

UFO

G-CPTN
11th Dec 2007, 16:17
It was thought at one time that physical roadside signs (on poles) would be required to enforce the no overtaking restriction, with signs positioned at the commencement and end of the road markings.
Previously it was considered that a single solid white line indicated no overtaking, with overtaking only permitted where a broken white line existed.

ORAC
11th Dec 2007, 17:17
Only indirectly related, but I found this site (part of a much large site for train modellers). Some people need to get out more...

Road Markings & Street Furniture (http://www.igg.org.uk/gansg/00-app1/st-furn.htm) :8

tony draper
11th Dec 2007, 17:28
Slightly off topic but that article mentions Mile Stones,theres a very old one outside one of the original gates to what was to become Salwell Park,it was a private estate untill 1870's, not saying it's Roman but its very old,I remember it as a sprog,although even then the writing upon it was illegible,over the years with I assume the road and path being resurfaced it has sunk further and further into the ground,only about six inches of it protrudes now,found a old photograph early 1800s of the gate on the web a while back and it stands a good two feet out of the ground,summat sinister here, if ones theory of road resurfacing is wrong the world is obviously swelling up.
:rolleyes:

ORAC
11th Dec 2007, 17:35
You have something there Mr D.

You watch Time Team and they always have to dig down to find the old floors and walls. They did one site which turned out to be a Tudor ship building site where the old river/estuary is now all arable farm land. The old port at Ostia is being dug up several miles inland. Where's all this land coming from? I thought top soil was being denuded and the sea levels were rising?

Summat's not right......

G-CPTN
11th Dec 2007, 20:43
Think of all the coal and stone that has been extracted from holes in the ground, together with all the rubbish made from petroleum products and now discarded into 'landfill' - it all gets spread over the existing land - even the burned ash from trees has to go somewhere. At coastal locations there's the discarded shells from sea molluscs that have been piled-up too.

419
11th Dec 2007, 20:50
Just to be a bit pedantic.

Unbroken white lines do not mean that you can't overtake. They actually mean that you shouldn't cross or straddle the lines. (unless turning off the road, passing a stationary vehicle, pedal bike or horse).

If there is room for you to overtake without crossing the lines, you can do so. (usually only possible on a fairly wide road, and you are on a motorbike).

G-CPTN
11th Dec 2007, 20:54
Are you sure?
http://www.uk-roads.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17436&

tony draper
11th Dec 2007, 20:56
Here's proof if more proof were needed,this is a photo of West St when I were a lad, all those building are gone now but that wall that lady is walking beside,it is still there, but now the top of said wall only protrudes about ten inches above pavement level.
http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k226/Tony_Draper/weststreet2.jpg
Alas one could not find a up to date photy of the same scene,
the world is swellin up I tells yer.
:uhoh:

G-CPTN
11th Dec 2007, 21:00
That's 'cause the government carried off the railings (together with the top courses of stone) to make Spitfires during the War.

419
11th Dec 2007, 21:00
Certain? Yes.
From the UK Highway code, and Road traffic act 1988 sect 36.

Double white lines where the line nearest you is solid. This means you MUST NOT cross or straddle it unless it is safe and you need to enter adjoining premises or a side road. You may cross the line if necessary, provided the road is clear, to pass a stationary vehicle, or overtake a pedal cycle, horse or road maintenance vehicle, if they are travelling at 10 mph (16 km/h) or less

G-CPTN
11th Dec 2007, 21:03
If I'm out cycling my base speed on a normal road with no slope and not putting too much exertion in is probably between 12 and 14mph so legally nobody should overtake me in a double white line area, but they do, and I admit that I do overtake cyclists in such areas even if they are doing more than 10mph.
Has anyone ever been prosecuted for breaking this rule?
Yes, I was going to ask that, too. Also, how do you tell whether the cyclist is doing 10mph? Some speedos don't register 10 at all; most I imagine will be sufficiently inaccurate not to reliably distinguish between 10 and 12 (the latter is my average speed on a bike); and often (even usually) when you overtake a bike you don't necessarily slow to its speed and follow it before overtaking. You get past quicker, and you freak the cyclist out less, if you can more or less maintain your speed and go straight past, oncoming traffic permitting.
I'd have thought a prosecution would be impossible unless there happened to be a copper with a speed gun who could measure the bike's speed at the point you overtook it. Even if you were followed by a cop car, they'd not be able to prove what speed the bike was doing when you overtook it. Bike speeds vary greatly in a short period due to gradient.
(from:- http://www.uk-roads.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17436& )

The Flying Pram
11th Dec 2007, 21:40
Mr draper & ORAC, if it's of any consolation there is one area where the ground is shrinking rather than rising - the Fens. On a school trip nearly 40 years ago, we were shown a large pole that was sunk flush to the surface before the area was drained. It now stands, IIRC, some 15ft clear of the ground! The reason, of course, is that the peat soil has dried out and shrunk considerably. It also gives rise to some of the most appallingly uneven roads I've had the misfortune to drive on.

tony draper
11th Dec 2007, 22:27
Hmmm we have hauled a couple of billion tons of coal out the ground here,one would think that would leave a large gap underground causing it to sink,which in fact is exactly what happened to me Aunty Delia's house when she lived in Wesminster street,her house started sinking as did the rest of the street,she had to move herself and her parrot out toot sweet as they furriners say.
:uhoh:

Bern Oulli
12th Dec 2007, 10:37
That's 'cause the government carried off the railings (together with the top courses of stone) to make Spitfires during the War.

A stone Spitfire? Bullet-proof but a tad down on performance I suspect.

modtinbasher
12th Dec 2007, 10:43
"Mr draper & ORAC, if it's of any consolation there is one area where the ground is shrinking rather than rising - the Fens. On a school trip nearly 40 years ago, we were shown a large pole that was sunk flush to the surface before the area was drained. It now stands, IIRC, some 15ft clear of the ground! The reason, of course, is that the peat soil has dried out and shrunk considerably. It also gives rise to some of the most appallingly uneven roads I've had the misfortune to drive on."

I live in the Fens too. Another thing that does not help is the 40 tonne trucks hauling beet or carrots on roads that were not originally constructed for that purpose.

MTB

tony draper
12th Dec 2007, 11:04
The top layer of stone is still in situ as are the railings,one believes the Pope issued a edict forbidding lumps of church property to be used as weapons of war
so your theory is shot down.
However as one has mentioned before the citizens of my town did indeed supply the RAF with one Spitfire,one has a picky of it somewhere,one is looking into asking the RAF for it back if they have not broke it that is as I understand they are going for a million a pop now.
:rolleyes:

ZH875
12th Dec 2007, 11:51
There was a TV Documentary a few years ago, and it dispelled the myth that wrought iron railings were used to help the war effort.

They were cut down and taken away and most of them were just left in various scrapyards, as they were of no use to the arms industry.

They were taken to make the people think that they were helping the war effort, good for morale etc.

Regarding the stone spitfires being low on performance, why did they put concrete on the leading edge of the Jet Provost T5 wings?

Gainesy
12th Dec 2007, 12:06
On the pic in question, there is no Yew tree. In me front garden now is a 60ft Yew. Ergo it would be quicker to cut the tree down and count the rings than get a coherent answer on JB.

Ain't thread drift wonderful?:)

Ref the JP5, summat to do with the pre-stall buffet charectaristics I think.

tony draper
12th Dec 2007, 12:19
Tiz just the way in forums that conversations progress in the way Pub conversation do Mr G, they are subject to chaos.
"Did you ever read that book Social Economic Disipline as Applied to the Prolateriate one loaned you"?
"Err not yet, hey! look at the tits on that lass ower there"
:rolleyes:

Gainesy
12th Dec 2007, 12:31
Yeh, I don't mind at all Mr D. One could often Gloggle such Qs but there is much more fun and knowlege to be found from the folks on here.
:)
And dis-knowledge, if that weren't a word, it is now.

The SSK
12th Dec 2007, 12:35
And dis-knowledge, if that weren't a word, it is now.

Pugnorance - that's when you're not only ignorant, but ugly with it.

tony draper
12th Dec 2007, 13:02
In one's effort to help Mr G one googled Yew Tree, growth speed thereof,no luck in that regard as yet,but one has discovered thet yer Yew Tree is a fascinating critter as trees go.

The lives of three wattles, the life of a hound;
The lives of three hounds, the life of a steed;
The lives of three steeds, the life of a man;
The lives of three eagles, the life of a yew;
The life of a yew, the length of an age;
Seven ages from Creation to Doom.
Nennius (9th century historian), "Seven Ages"

Gainesy
12th Dec 2007, 13:16
Yer, well I want to chop the bugga down but, apart from it being bad to burn, NAGCINCHOME likes it.

tony draper
12th Dec 2007, 13:41
Oh dear, be carefull,Yggdrasil was a Yew and the Yew was Holy to both Druid and all the ancient tribes of the North,remember the old Norse gods are not the wishy washy touchy feely huggy fluff middle eastern type god we have nowadays,they really bare a grudge.
:uhoh:

Radar66
12th Dec 2007, 13:54
:D


Double white lines meandering to Norse Gods....

Jet Blast strikes again! :ok:

The Flying Pram
12th Dec 2007, 20:05
I live in the Fens too. Another thing that does not help is the 40 tonne trucks hauling beet or carrots on roads that were not originally constructed for that purpose.
MTB

I'm not that far away from the Cantley Sugar Beet factory and sympathise with you. However I was thinking more of the way that Fen roads become "Roller Coasters", rather than the actual damage done by HGV's.

henry crun
12th Dec 2007, 20:24
If you decide to chop it down Mr G, do not burn it, the timber is sought by wood turners

tony draper
12th Dec 2007, 20:35
Interesting article here re aging yer Yew Mr G, apparently it's not the length that counts its the girth.
http://www.ancient-yew.org/ageing.shtml.
Interestingly we here in the UK have the oldest trees in Europe,(they prolly eat tree across there,when they are no longer fit to live in that is)
:rolleyes:

ShyTorque
12th Dec 2007, 23:34
Regarding the stone spitfires being low on performance, why did they put concrete on the leading edge of the Jet Provost T5 wings?

To slow 'em down so pilots like me could have a chance of keeping up.

Double white lines meandering to Norse Gods....

I think Mr. D's post was written in Norse Code.

Blacksheep
13th Dec 2007, 02:24
Them Norse Gods stopped us using our own yews for making longbows. Over the years we'd let them all grow too big and knobbly. So we imported foreign staves for the purpose. (Then we went back over there and used them on the suppliers. Perfidious Albion.) This probably explains the big yews in England and the absence thereof on the continent.

Gainesy
13th Dec 2007, 08:25
U
That's a big Yew.

Didn't know wood turners liked it Henry (How's Min BTW?) thought of offerin it to the Army, few longbows might come in handy these days.
"What's that funny whooshing noise Abdu..Ergh".

S'land
13th Dec 2007, 14:17
Can you cut down Yew trees without special permissions? I seem to remember being told (when I were nowt but a lad) that the old laws from when we used yew to make longbows were still applicable and cutting them down was a no no.

Blacksheep
14th Dec 2007, 05:35
No, longbow yew staves were imported, mostly from Spain. The quality was better for longbow manufacture. The ban on cutting down Yew trees was handed down from our pagan past.

This being the festival of the winter solstice, one just erected a Yule tree in the living room. No mistletoe over here though and I guess the human sacrifice is off the list again this year. :rolleyes:

visibility3miles
15th Dec 2007, 19:05
I guess the human sacrifice is off the list again this year.

Unless you're volunteering? :p

Krystal n chips
16th Dec 2007, 06:36
" the double continous white lines to indicate unsafe for overtaking".....:hmm:

If somebody could explain the theory behind this to the population of the East Midlands, users of the A617, and Lincolnshire in particular !:} I, and I suspect the local A and E Dept's / Police Traffic units, would be truly grateful !.....Retard heaven at times it seems, especially at night :ugh:

ORAC
16th Dec 2007, 10:20
The double continuous white line was introduced in the 1959 Highways Act (http://www.roadsafetyni.gov.uk/index/education/teenzone/tz-mvrus/tz-mvrus-legislation.htm).