AS350 Nutter in NI

[SouthXross]

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=sPfLBWrynSE
....lucky lucky boy....read about him in the AAIB soon! :ugh:

[mr.plow]

marriage can be scary...

[ralphmalph]

What a knob!. If it had been a polished performance at altitude away from spectators and obstructions it would have been controversial.
As it was the guy needs to have his license taken off him, dangerous, scrappy and stupid flying.
From the moment he lifted he was trying to impress, very lucky not to have crashed IMHO.
Would love to know a bit more about the guys experience and motivations...I have my own thoughts!.

Ralph

[Russell Sprout]

Looks to me as if he wasn't fully in control and just trying to hang onto being impressive..... oh dear!!! I wonder if the EGT and TQ were just as impressed?

[raven2]

What a muppet:eek:

[A.Agincourt]

Looked to me like he tied to do a rapid towering Take Off and lost TR authority then deliberately applied a corrective cyclic input to get some control. :ugh:

:mad:

[Peter-RB]

Perhaps the Bride was gripping his joystick too hard!!:eek:

Peter R-B
Vfrpilotpb

[206Fan]

Were bouts in NI is that?? That pilot is a complete nutter!

[VeeAny]

Forgot to turn hydraulics on perhaps ?

[helicopter-redeye]

Other questions (looking at the bigger picture):-

1. Why were they holding the wedding in a chicken shed?

EoQ.

:)

[FloaterNorthWest]

Looks like G-LARR.

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/GImages/G-LARR001.jpg

FNW

[206Fan]

Forgot to turn hydraulics on perhaps ?

Yea id agree there!

[Hedski]

Standby with can of worms.......and open:
Which AOC was this aircraft operating on? As far as I was aware it is a private heli having replaced R44 G-LRSN previously owned by the same individual.
Fair enough if it was private flying but this is why we don't let PPL's do commercial work or 'pubic' transport.
Either way, it's the most stupid thing I've seen in a helicopter in some time, well a few weeks since I saw an R44 go IMC at 200ft also in Northern Ireland.
This is the kind of mind numbing rubbish that gives helicopters a bad name, not only when it goes wrong. The press would have had a field day if the 350 had clipped that roof, lobbyists would be out, Red Kens and the like restricting our movements over cities, can't do that, don't land there, oh aren't they dangerous though....!!!!!
:=String him up by his Gonads, leave him there to dry, assuming it was a he.....:eek:
What a f:mad:ing complete waste of a nice B3, retards aplenty kids.:mad:

[mylesdw]

Perhaps the pilot had not flown a 4/5 seat craft before?

[ShyTorque]

All of the first solos I've sent off were certainly better flown ....

And didn't the 500 foot rule apply on the return, as there was apparently no intent to land? :ugh:

[Wetbulb]

I've spoken with the pilot who normally flies this aircraft. He has asked me to point out to the forum, on his behalf, that he was not flying the aircraft on this occasion.

[ShyTorque]

So the bridesmaid's little brother stole it (thought it took a long time to get going)?

[heliski22]

Unbelievable! I got a knot in my stomach just looking at it! That was a hairsbreadth from wipeout, no more!

[Granite Monolith]

:eek:

Just bought my father a heli trip with PDG for Xmas - hope the "pilot" isn't as lax as that one:ooh:

[A.Agincourt]

Granite Monolith :eek:

Just bought my father a heli trip with PDG for Xmas - hope the "pilot" isn't as lax as that one:ooh:I do not think you need to worry about that. The PDG crews are a pretty seasoned bunch. Well not so pretty :p Come to think of it there are some who smell a bit seasoned but you can take it yer dad will get a good deal. :ok:

Best Wishes


Ace

[Granite Monolith]

but you can take it yer dad will get a good deal


Thanks ace:ok:

[Hughesy]

About the Hyd off...good call. Maybe he didnt reset button prior to liftoff. But then you would think a small red light glowing in his face might jog his memory.

Other then that, farken hell!! Thats was insane. Way way way out of control. The muppet almost cost two newlweds their lives. If he is gonna fly like that then I hope he never takes out a few innocents. Im sure when they said "til death do us part", that they didn't mean within 15 mins!

Mr or mrs pilot, if your lurking on here thinking your a hero...PULL YOUR HEAD IN!! :mad:

[nigelh]

I thought only Robbo pilots flew like that ....very sad to see that the riff raff ppl,s are now flying 350,s as well . I will have to keep it in the hangar for a while after this and just be seen in the 109 in case i should get mistaken for one :rolleyes:
ps why would the hyds be off anyway ? Surely when you are leveling the disc before t/o you will feel this ? ....unless your right hand is numb ....in his case i can imagine what from :=

[pullinpitch]

Wetbulb... I've spoken with the pilot who normally flies this aircraft. He has asked me to point out to the forum, on his behalf, that he was not flying the aircraft on this occasionIf he wasn't flying, did he say anything about the pilot that was??? Why, what, who, where, hydraulics on etc???

[mylesdw]

I think this pilot has appeared on YouTube before; listen very carefully and you might be able to hear:

"Hogg! Hogg! get away from that thang!"

Seems like good old Hogg has pretty much got the hang of it now...

[Fortyodd2]

Hydraulics off?? Looks more like the cyclic & pedals were off. What a Tw@t!!! :ugh:

[jayteeto]

Only my guess, but I don't think it was hydraulics. Listen to the wind noise before take off and watch what the heli is trying to do/is doing in flight. It appears to be blow away from the 'crowd' at a great rate and the airframe seems to want to weathercock into wind with the pilot fighting it. Very very lucky. :eek:

[mickjoebill]

How close did he go to hitting the house after the dive?

No matter what the reason, "unusual" flying in public like this is increasingly likely to be shot and distributed on You Tube.

This thought won't curtail sloppy airmanship but may rein in showoffs?




Mickjoebill

[airborne_artist]

I've spoken with the pilot who normally flies this aircraft. He has asked me to point out to the forum, on his behalf, that he was not flying the aircraft on this occasion.

And I'll bet my Christmas money that the chimp who was flying it may not get the opportunity ever again :ugh:

[Agaricus bisporus]

Well, lets hope the CAA enforcement section get hold of this video and do something useful for once...

[helimutt]

I also wondered about the wind direction, taking off downwind out of a possible confined area, because just afterwards, he returns to hover, presumably into wind, just above the wedding guests. Name and shame is what I say, before he kills someone!

[jayteeto]

CAA enforcement?? He screwed up a take off and nearly crashed, but what exactly is there to enforce?? Bear in mind that I have often called for heads to roll over flying indiscipline, the second bit was hardly a wazzing flyby was it?? I would guess (only my humble opinion) that he will never ever ever misjudge a take off like that again, be it hyds or weather. At Fairford Air Show a few years ago, I lifted a Puma out of the main park, surrounded by other aircraft. A towering take off with me misidentifying the gale force wind by 180deg. Guess what?? A result not unlike this video nasty :eek:
People make mistakes, clever people don't repeat the event.........

[manitoubrian]

I'd probably be happier flying with the pilot now after that.. I'd imagine that scared him and he's probably replayed in his mind several different outcomes..

Caught up in the moment perhaps?

[helimutt]

By caught up in the moment you perhaps mean "SHOWING OFF":hmm:



Hopefully a lesson learned as jayteeto says.

[OffshoreHeli]

He screwed up a take off and nearly crashed, but what exactly is there to enforce??

Are you for real, these innocent people are nearly killed on their wedding day by an incompetent pilot and you say what is to enforce. He needs a good kick up the A***

[manitoubrian]

Yeah, Showing off.... Be very surprised if no one posting here never done that...

By the way i'm not defending it.. I know the owner, but not the pilot on the day

[helimutt]

I thought that the whole point of being a helicopter pilot was because of our personality type? True enough I suppose, never seen a helicopter pilot show off before! Or is it the money? ;)

[skidbiter2]

Hmmmm

To me it looks like he may be low hour on type, it jumped in the air on him, he tried to make it look like it was on purpose, then ended up heading off down wind, the tail came around on him, he then tries to push it forward to gain airspeed, but look out there is a house!
Then comes back I'm guessing with one or more passengers wanting to get out and the others saying keep going, she'll be right!
Just giving him the benefit of the doubt.

Otherwise it wasn't a very good bit of "showing off" flying!

Just my take, as a lot of people are quick to jump down someones throat be fore all facts are known.:hmm:

[airborne_artist]

I just feel sorry for the groom - not much he could do for his wife in the honeymoon suite that could be as exciting as the ride she had in the 350 :E

[Hedski]

Surprised if either party was able for bedroom acrobatics after that.....
:{:{:{:{

[jonnyrb]

Next time I am given traffic info from Belfast App about G-LARR lifting out of Craigantlet I will be staying well out of the away.

If the owner wasnt flying??????????? I wonder did the pilot admit to him that it happened:confused:

[Pilot DAR]

Thanks Mylesdw,

You made me laugh! It's Hogg's brief flight in the 300, which rolls through my mind every time I pick one up; "How am I not going to do that today (or ever)!"

You have to be an extra special pilot to be able to properly handle an aircraft and an audience at the same time. Generally, pilot's can handle aircraft, it's the audience which introduces the problem. If it's not the "watch this" show off attitude, it's the "Oh my gosh, everyone's watching me" fear of just screwing up. Either can be a real problem.

The best airshow pilots seem to have these conflicting circumstances well balanced. The average pilot using a helicopter to create an "event", has trouble written all over it.

I agree that probably that pilot learned from the takeoff, but it looks to me that there was too much wrong with it for all of the shortcomings to have been learned from the one experience!

No wonder the public views aviation with some uncertainty!

[Robino]

Any chance that the Airframe was over stressed after that!!!:confused:

[jayteeto]

Offshore, I do understand where you are coming from, he nearly killed his passengers. I will bet what scared him the most was that he nearly killed HIMSELF. It concentrates the mind. People make mistakes, I did virtually the same as this and I was not showing off, I just got it wrong. I now have 6000 hours and like to think that each error I have made has taught me a bit more about flying. If every pilot lost their licence when they made an error, even as serious as this, I would probably be able to get a captaincy with Virgin Atlantic by now.

[Agaricus bisporus]

Hmm. Mistake, yeah, OK, we (I) 've made them too, but...

Wedding lift. Cutting it a bit close as a PPL at the best of times, but a towering take off like that, even if under control which this one clearly was not, is undoubtedly an unnecessary and hazardous manoeuvre, especially with pax on board, but from a confined site like that in a single, the whole op was an utter no-no, surely?.

The following uncontrolled spin and backwards transition which so nearly became overcooked was manifestly dangerous, and the ensuing uncontrolled yaw (loss of TR authority due low speed, high Tq?) and overcorrection with excessive fwd cyclic that left the a/c in that astonishing tight descending nearly vertical nose-down turn, Hell, Dennis Kenyon scarcely achieved attitudes like that, but at least his looked intentional.

And then, the imbecile, instead of slinking off quietly and letting go of the the seat slowly and unobtrusively had the gall, the rank stupidity, to return for a fly by to what looked very like a free air hover at a couple of hundred feet, over a congested area, in a single. Need I go on?

I hope this idiot is prosecuted to the limit and is permanently removed from our skies. He has no place there, as he has so thoroughly and amply demonstrated.

This was no mistake...At best a hideously dangerous incompetent screw-up compounded by an unbelievably stupid and deliberate return to the scene to repeat the calumny and consciously break even more rule of air and airmanship.

[Whirlygig]

Whilst there are a few people on here who know who the pilot was, is it public domain knowledge that he was a PPL and not CPL?

Cheers

Whirls

[coley chaos]

I like the little old lady who is happily waving away (lower left screen), gayly oblivious of whats happening and is totally unaware to the faces around her. She woudnt of seen the vomit on the inside of the perspex!!!! :yuk:

[skidbiter2]

Just a question... I hear you guys out that way have an over abundance of rules, but surely you are aloud to do towering take offs from confined places in a single? Whats the use of having a helicopter if you can't?
I don't see a problem with it there, if he had done it properly and headed into wind (controlled) ?

Just wondering :confused:

[manfromuncle]

Looks to me like he pulled too much power upon lifting and didn't put enough right pedal in, then it all went t*ts up from there. Pretty scary viewing whatever happened. Turning downwind directly after lifting probably didn't help (assuming he was into wind on the 'pad').

Anyway, I'd love to hear the pilot's account.

[Bladecrack]

I agree with manfromuncle, I don't think he was trying to show off, if he is a PPL as suggested he likely was just out of his depth and made a mistake?
As for returning to the scene, have you considered he was maybe returning to land, and check things out and let the pax out, and possibly just picked a better spot to land out of shot? The site was clearly unsuitable for the job. Maybe some further training and supervision would be appropriate rather than just pulling his licence?
You are all very quick to judge, have none of you ever made a mistake then? Never had a dodgy take off or landing? because if you ever do, and it ends up on a public forum like here, there will be plenty of people to put the boot in....

[MINself]

The Take off certainly looks unusual and it would be very interesting to hear from the pilot on what the intended departure profile was?

Personally, the first time someone flew like this with me as a passenger would be the last time.

Fly safe!

[AS350NUTTER]

Hi everyone I am the pilot of the 350 and really don’t understand what the big deal is!:bored: I think it is pretty sad that some of you are trying to persecute me publicly and don’t have the balls to speak to me face to face. Also surprised at you southxross starting this thread. From someone in your position I would have expected a bit more sense, but will bear that in mind in future dealings. Ok any questions?:)

[skidbiter2]

as350nutter

Good on ya for showing up, but I don't think you really should have to defend your self, as you say, who has the right to persecute you online!
But it seems a lot of people do before finding out the facts, guess i am just as guilty.

Anyway, if you are indeed the pilot? Good on ya for putting your neck out! :D

[Hedski]

Fair enough for posting back. But can you now elaborate on a) what you were trying to achieve and b) what actually happened?
I can't fathom how you "don't understand what the big deal is". I know what I saw on that video....:yuk:
And as for the balls to speak to you face to face, I did contemplate ringing a contact number I have for G-LARR's pilot but was then informed it may not have been the normal individual. Plenty of the previous posters I'm sure would happily chat face to face. Some do participate in this forum under great cloaks of secrecy but not me. PM me your mobile, landline, email, you name it and I'll be on once I'm finished on that bloody wallet emptying ebay.....:{
H

PS: can you also elaborate what AOC you were operating under?
And to the assembled masses, what's the likelihood of not overtorquing with that much nose down in the recovery and also the max sideways speed for a 350?

[heliski22]

AS350Nutter

Of course, now that you have put your head above the parapet, perhaps you might enlighten us as to what actually happened - you know, in a spirit of information sharing and technique development.

You'd have to agree that, from the video at least, it looked very unusual. But, as you say, none of us were at the controls, you were.

Like I said on my earlier post, I had a knot in my stomach looking at it but maybe I'm missing something, eh? Maybe there's a whole bunch of stuff about flying helicopters I don't know yet and you can tell me?

So how DID you do that?


"Ogni casa ha la sue croce!"

[Bravo73]

So then, AS350NUTTER, what's the truth behind the, er, slightly 'unorthodox' departure? Was it intentional? :confused:



PS Welcome to PPRuNe. That's one helluva entrance... ;)




Edited to add: Wow. That's the first 'triple post' that I've seen... :8

[Gaseous]

Hi Nutter,
I would be curious if that take off brought you a smirk or a bowel movement.
If the former, you deserve all the criticism above.
If the latter, it was a bit of bad luck it ending up on YouTube. Learn from it, do your laundry and move on.
I remember doing one (take off, not bowel movement:ugh:)which went horribly wrong at a famous northern pub a few years ago. I did nervously check YouTube for a while afterwards but I got away with it. I certainly learnt from it.
Cheers
G.
Edit. 4th cross post:}

[Whirlygig]

Anyway, if you are indeed the pilot?

Glad I'm not the only cynic :}

Cheers

Whirls

[MINself]

Welcome AS350Nutter, you are of course correct no-one has to justify ones actions on PPRune, but in the interest of debate and as you have commendably IMHO raised your head above the parapet, it would be enlightening to hear your thought processes and actions as seen on the video, so that we might better understand the flying demonstrated, I assume you are prepared to do this as why else own up to being the pilot?

As every member of PPRune I have my own opinion but I am far more interested in hearing yours!

[helicopter-redeye]

Edited to add: Wow. That's the first 'triple post' that I've seen...

Gone back to a more usual one now, thank H for email recording.

h-r

(still curious about the chicken shed venue:ooh:)

[manfromuncle]

AS350 Nutter:

If indeed you are the pilot...

I would LOVE to know what really happened. I'm not trying to start a witch hunt, I don't care what licence you have, or what AOC you were under. I am genuinely curious what you thought happened and what went through your mind.

In the interests of sharing information that people might learn from please tell your story.

Maybe one day when a low hours pilot is picking people up from a confined site, and the cameras are on him, he will think back to this video/your story and take it slow and careful.

[Border]

Hi Everyone
Just after speaking to a few of the guests at that wedding, they have told me that the flight took place with winds at 20kts gusting 50-60 kts maybe more, cant be 100% sure. On board were the newly married couple and their 6 month old baby. They have stated that they will never ever set foot inside another helicopter ever again. That flight should never have happenened on a day when the winds were so strong especially when a child was on board. Well Done Nutter this type off flying does wonders for the industry.

[A.Agincourt]

AS350NUTTER (http://www.pprune.org/forums/member.php?u=207663)



Hi everyone I am the pilot of the 350 and really don’t understand what the big deal is!:bored:

Well that response just about sums it up and validates every comment so far.

I think it is pretty sad that some of you are trying to persecute me publicly and don’t have the balls to speak to me face to face.

Send me details of how to achieve that and I will oblige. .Persecution?? Do you still hold a valid license? Persecution is when you will loose it

You sir are a blight on the helicopter community and not only that you are a total F:mad:wit. The video alone is enough.

I cannot help feeling that the OP is not the culprit because I fail to understand such rank stupidity. Wind up right?

[AS350NUTTER]

Yes new to pprune and appears so far to be a load of critical helicopter pilots! Not to mention ill informed pilots as well eg AOC not required for PVT flt! For the person who thinks they are in CSI because they noticed I edited my message 3 times who honestly gives a TOSS! I am aware of who most of you are and some of you are sadder than I thought!

PS You’ve been had!

Leave the guy alone to reflect on what happened.

[206Fan]

Was that in south armagh by any chance were you lifted of??

[Whirlygig]

PS You’ve been had!

Quel surprise :} :rolleyes:

...and if you were really new to Pprune, you wouldn't have the first clue who everyone is :suspect:

Cheers

Whirls

[Border]

The wedding took place in a small village called Mayobridge in Co. Down

[206Fan]

The wedding took place in a small village called Mayobridge in Co. Down

Yes i know it well, im from newry myself!

[P1V1T1]

The breakdown of the nutter.

If it was a mechanical fault everyone would now about it . Helicopter world is way too small

If it was hydraulics i think people that know him would have said something in his defense by now .

It scares me to think that i share the same skies as this person .

Unless there is some other explanation this person should have the "IAA"( if they exist at all ) on him like a ton of bricks .

Evidence wouldnt be too hard to track down !!

[nigelh]

I dont see any reason why the flight could not have taken place even with baby on board and strong winds unless , as i suspect, the pilot was not experienced enough to do it alone and should have taken a safety pilot with him. I personally stayed away from weddings etc until i had a few hundred hours under my belt. The aircraft is more than capable of doing it safely....
also , unless it was a B3 it would without any doubt have exceeded limits on torque etc and this should have been reported to its maintenance organisation. Lets see if the pilot compounds his problems by not doing this and i for one would be unhappy to fly in that machine until checks have been made. Who wants to bet that his other heli,s a robbo :D

my apologies to all robbo drivers . To put you in the same category as nutter is unduly offensive.

[Backward Blade]

Not quite on board with who knows who and what not, me working on the other side of the pond as you would say...

Was he showing off?....who knows and if he was he deserves the critisism.

If he took off downwind and got caught well good on him for getting it back. Although I must note that a 350 will lift a gross load downwind sometimes better than into wind ... just make sure you have the room for translation!

As for taking off with the HYD OFF, I would leave that up to the investigating authorities.

To Keep It Simple: To those of you working on a professional basis tell me you havn't done something that seemed so "cool" at the time and then get caught?!!! Probably not many I'm willing to bet. Forgot that "button" so to speak?

Won't comment on the private issue but regardless of whether you are Commercial or Private a guy sometimes screws up. This guy just got caught on film...same as that Aircrane going bass-ackwards.

Regardless of whether or not he "screwed up", "came close", or "putting on the piss"...he did recover and I hope his company will take the appropriate actions. But always remember that He as PIC did recover regardless of the actions/maintenance that precluded it.

Happy it ended well

BWB

[helicopter-redeye]

...who honestly gives a TOSS! ...

VTOSS perhaps? :}

[helimutt]

Is there anyone on here who knows the maintenance organisation who look after this a/c? Interested to know, as one poster above, if this non-standard maneouvre has been reported. Would it benefit the engineers watching it on Youtube to see what they should be looking for?

If there was a 6 month old baby on board too, i'm sorry but this, to me, is even more out of order. My personal thought is that Bloke is obviously a cnut and I stand by that. No excuses.

[BIGJOCK]

Well done NUTTER for the wind up ! To the rest of you speculators give it a break. Nobody sets out to make such a mistake in a helicopter ,and yes the pilot did recover the situation well. If the helicopter was over TQ ed it will show on the VEMD as an over limit. It makes me cringe to hear all the dumb comments from the experts[?] who have NEVER made a mistake...
The most important thing is that we ALL learn from situations like this ,Im sure he did. Its sad to see all the negative posts from people who wouldnt have the balls to say it to his face but need the protection of a forum:ugh:.

The CFI at NTards would be better off trying to help this guy with the offer of free training to help him rather to bash him on pprune,season of good will etc. Could someone from G-LARR engineering company suggest to owner that helicopter would need inspection.

Lets help this Person and hope he learns and suggest anymore comments are positive.

[helimutt]

BIGJOCK, there is absolutley nothing to stop anyone arsing about in a helo if they are on their own, but to do it with newlyweds and a baby onboard, you think it's just a case of 'let him have a bit more training and he'll be right'?

Give me a break.

Also, if you think he recovered the situation well, you must be bloody blind. It was about 2 seconds from carnage and if thats a good recovery, then maybe I think with different limits to yourself. It was purely luck that he's not in a morgue or 6 foot under right now.

We've all probably made mistakes whilst flying which we've learned from, but I bet less than .5% on here have had anything like that happen with pax onboard.

[MINself]

The CFI at NTards would be better off trying to help this guy with the offer of free training to help him rather to bash him on pprune

Free training!.... excellent, I haven't laughed so much in a long time. So you think the reward of free flying training would solve the problem? possibly ground instruction, yes.

I doubt the sort of flying seen here was anything other than self taught, so how would a few expensive turbine hours spent with a FI help anyone, when as soon as they are solo they don their spurs?

[SouthXross]

Also surprised at you southxross starting this thread. From someone in your position I would have expected a bit more sense, but will bear that in mind in future dealings. Ok any questions?

Let’s think about that for a moment? For someone in my position this is crucial that this kind of flying be made public and made to understand that under no circumstance is it acceptable. You very nearly killed 3 people, and still you don’t understand how close you came to death. As for future dealings . . . don’t do me any favours, association with that kind of flying is not something I am looking forward to, the more distance between us the better.

[Hedski]

What relation were the passengers to the owner of the helicopter if it was private flying?

BigJock, if you find that recovery acceptable I worry about you too.....

[manitoubrian]

I'm confused... If that was not an acceptable recovery, what would you have preferred?

[helimutt]

Glad someone agrees with me!

Yes it was a recovery, but it looked more like pure luck than anything else. If there had been any other tall buildings he would have hit them but lets not go there as we can only see one camera angle.

Just wait till someone like SKYnews gets a hold of it. That'll make it fun to watch on national TV. Maybe the couple onboard can sell theor story and sue the pilot?

:hmm:

[BIGJOCK]

Im so hurt now........

[jonnyrb]

The NI helicopter world is very small.

Yes I agree we should all learn from this. I hope the pilot will be honest enough to explain all what happened to his B3 to the maint organisation. Although I’m sure the engines with ears at McAlpine have already watched it.

[JimBall]

So, the outcome of this focus group is that the pilot in question is (in my pigeon Irish) an ejit. Whether or not it was a forced error.

A fekkin ejit.

And, if there's a God, this ejit will be deprived of any license ever again. Ejit's with brains made of soda bread shouldn't be allowed near any vehicle.

Who/where trained this clown ? Who/where/when was the last LPC ?

A slow news day could see this clip promoted from UselessToob to broadcast news with "they lived to tell the tale" as the substance of the piece.

So, whoever you are, thanks so much for putting our industry into the firing line. We just need people like you around.

[PPRuNe Radar]

As these are anonymous forums the origins of the contributions may be opposite to what may be apparent. In fact the press may use it, or the unscrupulous, to elicit certain reactions.

Which sums up the contributions from our 'nutter'.

[Koalainfoplease]

It was a G reg'd heli in Northern Ireland....therefore it's a matter for the CAA not IAA.

[skidbiter2]

It amuses me how these things always turn in to slagging matches.
e.g "your a prat" "your a nutter"
Entertaining stuff....keep it up :} :D



Bigjock

What were you thinking?
You know your not aloud to have your own opinion!! :rolleyes: :ok:

[manamale]

helimutt, you u will never guess what I just saw on skynews!!!

[helimutt]

Your sh***ing me????? Have to go watch that. LOL

It's only a matter of time!:hmm:

[BIGJOCK]

Hi Hughesy ,have a read of the forum again it appears you shoot from the hip.The guy you thought it was ,wasnt. Anybody that tries such a stunt in a helicopter is crazy ,Im clearly not defending that. However this video shows a helicopter that becomes out of control due to what ever reasons and is recovered in some way and nobody got hurt. This chap needs help and retraining and a serious talking to by the authority and not us.

Hedski ,I didnt approve the recovery method .I do think anything but a crash and death was a successful outcome to this situation.

I have no doubt that this guy got himself in this situation but hadnt intended to so why dont we all calm down .

[helimutt]

manamale, I thought you were kidding!!! Just seen it on Sky news. Gonna show it again I guess.

[JimBall]

Less than 100 posts. Nearly 7500 views.

And over 6000 showings on UselessToob.

Make the pilot Head of PR for BHAB!

[HeliCraig]

Nothing of it on Sky News's website yet! Or am I being had?

[Bronx]

This could be a good discussion if it wasnt for the guys with personal agendas jumping on the bandwagon and some of them registering to do it. Funny how there's always personal bitching in threads about helicopters in Ireland.

SouthernX says it's "crucial that this kind of flying be made public."
Yeah, it must do wonders for the image of helicopter flying.

Seems he thought it was crucial to post the reg of the helo as well.

[VeeAny]

I thought the sky thing was a wind up just seen it myself.

[on21]

Let's hope there's some real news for Sky to report soon. Repeated every half an hour or so! It had to happen.:ugh:

[airborne_artist]

Did anyone notice the rather large field on the other side of the barn/shed/warehouse? 20/20 hindsight, of course, but would it have been a better site .....

[Jamie-Southend]

Well it certainly made Sky News....

http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,91059-1296586,00.html

[206Fan]

Flipn hekk, didn't think it would go this far and end up on skynews!

[Whirlygig]

And Ppruners even get an honorary mention! :} At least they corrected someone's spelling and grammar :\

Just goes to show eh?

Cheers

Whirls

[Bladecrack]

You must have some connection with the pilot as you are standing up for him quite a lot on this forum and others previously mentioned
norunway,
I have no connection to the pilot in question and have never met him/her, I simply offered some camly considered alternative viewpoints, rather than joining in the childish slanging match, as is now usual on pprune, made by the same old bunch of "pilots" with an over inflated ego, who have never made any sort of mistake during their flying career.. :yuk:
I have to agree with Bronx, that all the publicity over this has made the helicopter industry in NI/UK look very bad, there are surely better ways of dealing with this incident than on a public forum & TV news. Hopefully lessons have been learned...
BC

[Hedski]

JimBall, it's Feckin' Eejit. End of todays lesson in slang Irish.

BigJock, my statement was maybe misinterpreted. The recovery was drastic, and caused by a major error or recklessness in the first place and was violent in itself, hence unacceptable.

Bladecrack, I hope you are not including me in your sentiments about egos...:}

Haven't seen Sky yet, will keep an eye on it.

If Johnnyrb's quotation is correct this **** deserves the full brunt of the CAA.

Would anyone agree it's better to debate this issue now to minimise damage instead of another accident thread.

[skidbiter2]

I wonder which ppruner gave it up to Sky news...?

A lot of people are quick to say "off with his head"!
Why?
Sure he F**ked up, but surely people deserve second chances, or is it 'one strike your out'?

The only good thing I can see come of this, is that I'm sure a lot of us will keep this in mind when ever doing any flying in public or around video cameras and will be extra careful in what we are doing!

[AS350NUTTER]

Hi there everyone.:) Had a few thoughts today. Wouldn't you know, the muse arrived as I was transiting busy airspace but I just HAD to go 'head down', get the PC out, and capture my thoughts.

SouthXross (-)
Started all this nonsense by failing to mind his own business; seems happy to bring the Irish helicopter industry into disrepute; has ‘previous’ form by starting slanderous Pprune threads about subjects which are nothing to do with him.

Davy07 (-)
Hardly worthy of comment - irrelevant and ill-informed judgements. Appears to be a R/C helicopter pilot. And Davy07, who do you think has the slightest interest in where you live?

Hedski (-)
Generally negative comments and no constructive advice.

Wetbulb (+)
Early insider information supplied in order to avoid blame arriving at wrong landing site.

Nigelh (-)
Snobbish towards Robinson pilots and PPLs. Presumably born complete with ATPL in the cargo bay of an S92. Have you ever heard Jeremy Clarkson slagging off Caterhams in favour of Skanias?

Jayteeto (+)
Balanced analysis of the incident and constructive advice. Presumably mis-navigated to the wrong thread.

Skidbiter2 (+)
More well-informed and reasoned analysis. I’m starting to suspect some mis-typing going on.

Jonnyrb (-)
Where can we start here? Living proof that not all Jonnys stop the mess when applied to a cock-up. Lack of posts indicates a novice helicopter pilot who is nevertheless perfectly willing to blame any pilot who may invade his Class J airspace in aforementioned helicopter. Also the first person to mention the suspected pilot’s name so potential there for some courtroom drama later.

Agaricus Bisporus (-)
Latin for mushroom and obviously kept in the dark. Reasonable analysis but no constructive advice. Gets a negative for having me resort to Wikipedia for a disappointing revelation regarding the handle.

Blade Crack (+)
Constructive advice offered. Time to emigrate or do a fixed-wing rating.

Bravo73 (-)
Nerdish comments regarding the technological processes involved in posting messages lead me to believe that a change of heading is required for you at this point. Perhaps chess or needlework.

Gaseous (+)
Constructive advice. But I’m not planning to share a cockpit with you any time soon.

Border (~)
Undecided about you. You did bring further information to us regarding the baby which was supposedly on board. But then patches of meteorological inaccuracy spread in from the South in the shape of your wind statements. The wind on the day of the wedding was 20 gusting 35. Perhaps you could confer with Gaseous on this matter.

A. Agincourt (+)
Negative comments, but a great turn of phrase. Should consider stand-up.

P1V1T1 (-)
Talks arrogantly about who he is prepared to share the skies with. I wouldn’t relish the opportunity to share the skies with any pilot who doesn’t know Northern Ireland from Ireland, the CAA from the IAA and presumably his a**e from his elbow. And his name is a right ball-ache to type.

Backward Blade (+)
Was hoping for a negative here in order to latch on to the ‘backward’ bit. But no dice – you were another rarity in the thread who offered constructive advice.

BIGJOCK (+)
Are we related? Comments absolutely on the money. And bonus points for your comments upon the novice CFI who started the thread.

Helimutt (-)
The first to mention Sky News. So….. the first to get the blame for informing Sky News. You, along with SouthXross have done the most damage to the Irish helicopter industry.

[Senior Pilot]

Right you lot: enough's as good as a feast! Take 24 hours off to cool down, and start acting like adults, rather than the current kiddies corner name calling.

I'll look at reopening this thread tomorrow: maybe.

[Senior Pilot]

Thread re-opened.

No name calling, stupid assumptions, or playground behaviour :=

This has now featured as far away as Australia, complete with PPRuNe reference (Channel Nine News) (http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=335104), so you can expect a higher degree of oversight on this thread from now.

How about some input from experienced AS350-B3 operators as to the possibility of some reasons other than "cowboy" flying? I'm told that finger trouble with hydraulic off selections could have produced similar results, is that correct?

[nigelh]

As AS 350 Nutter obviously knows the pilot well why doesnt he get him to post what actually happened here ? I believe half of the problem with this pilot is that he has not yet stuck his hand up in the air and admitted anything ...we also get an insight ( rightly or wrongly) that he is not only incompetant but also arrogant. If it had been me , but for the grace of God, i would have come clean quickly and had a far more sympathetic ride with this bunch !! I accept we can all make mistakes but some things are just an accident waiting to happen ie if he was very low hours doing this flight and the main worry of most people is has he learnt from this ?? Speaking as one who has done loads of daft things i know that you do not learn until you accept blame .....
and i havent even called him a xxxxx xxxx for calling me snobbish., ...Moi !!! common people usually love me :ok:

[skidbiter2]

I'm just happy with my '+' rating :)

Hasn't every one made enough assumptions as to what happened already?
As thats what they all are, we can come up with different scenarios until we are blue in the face, but I don't think it will help anything or anyone.
Shame it made it to the news though!

But I'm sure he would have noticed the hyd off, as they are pretty heavy with out it, as well as the red light on.

And thats enough from me!

[P1V1T1]

Thanks nutter much appreciated , its nice to know someone is thinking about me .:D I'm a Taurus i like long walks on the beach i also enjoy the cinema so if you want to continue this pm me :}:}

Actually on a serious note the aircraft is G reg but i know its registered too a
person from the republic , so who would deal with it IAA or CAA?

[dragman]

Very interesting and amusing replies!! Looks like a case of wrong pedal to me. Did the guy used to fly a 44?

[Bladecrack]

P1V1T1,

You are mistaken, its is not registered in the ROI and you also answered your own question as it happened in NI and is G reg = CAA :hmm:

BC

[Name of Pen]

Perhaps:

PPL (inexperience/lack of anticipation)

Heavy load

Lots of pitch required

Lots of counter torque required (more than pilot is used to, refer to the above)

aircraft Yaws more than expected

did'nt anticipate

shoots up into the air

caught by wind

Loses yaw control

tries to recover

Nearly dies

recovers

Scares pax to death

looks a dick

All survive

Lives to fight another day.

Sheet happens

This is not in defence of the pilot, merely an observation.

Any thoughts lads/ladies?

Best regards

NoP

Ps. I do hope the replies from AS350 nutter are not serious

[Whirlygig]

Where does it state that the pilot was a PPL? Is it the assumption that a CPL could never make a mistake or behave like an ass?

Cheers

Whirls

[ralphmalph]

Notwithstanding the fact that we have all made mistakes..

Whoever pilot of the aircraft was, he should have have a bit more common sense than to even begin the manoevere he carried out.

The fact he alledgely had 3 pax on board makes things even worse.

Solo pilot?, experience?.

Military flying involes meticulous authorisation and supervison to prevent accidents happening. I am not sure what happens in the civilian world?

I would be incredibly embarassed had i been flying that aircraft that day, however it would be enlightening to learn the thought processes going through his/her mind before during and after the event.

If only to educate others.

As far as CAA involvement, well i'm not so sure...how many people **** up and get away with it!. Perhaps the individual concerned had a good enough fright and may think twice next time!

My penneth worth.

Ralph

[skidbiter2]

I agree, and I can't understand why Hedski and others think they are owed and explanation of the events?
I must be missing something?
Back home, the aviation industry usually sticks together and helps each other, whether it be searching with out being asked or wanting reward for lost aircraft, or giving someone a heads up about in coming crap etc.
But I am glad I don't fly out your guys way, seems every one is just waiting to sink the boot into each other!

ooop's, I did say enough from me....too bad, couldn't resist :E

[P1V1T1]

Sorry Bladecrack i wasn't clear enough , i know its a g reg which means the uk which is = to the CAA .

But the aircraft owner is from the ROI , just wondering does that bring the IAA into it in any way ??


Also what happens to N reg aircraft in the republic , is it the FAA that are responsible.

Hope i dont sound smart just genuinely interested , thanks for any info:)

[booke23]

P1V1T1

The incident took place in the United Kingdom.

The Aircraft is as you say G resistered.

The owner could be from addis ababa, and the CAA would still be the sole authority dealing with this incident....if indeed there is anything to be delt with.

Had the incident happened on Irish soil as opposed to British soil, then the IAA would have a role.

[NickLappos]

What happens if there is a dual jurisdiction is seldom in the pilot's favor. The governing authority is in the country of operation, they get first crack. Then they write the country where the pilot is licensed, and that second bunch has a go!

[P1V1T1]

Thank you very much for clearing that up ,much appreciated , I never really knew how those situations were dealt with .:}:ok:

[ShyTorque]

What happens if there is a dual jurisdiction is seldom in the pilot's favor. The governing authority is in the country of operation, they get first crack. Then they write the country where the pilot is licensed, and that second bunch has a go!

And if that fails, the USA could apply for extradition...... :E

[wobble2plank]

ShyTorque,

And if that fails, the USA could apply for extradition......

Or is that rendition :eek:

[Whirlygig]

Probably perdition :}

Cheers

Whirls

[Horror box]

This is one of the most interesting threads I have read for ages! I have to admit the footage at first looks damning, but I really think we have all been a little too hasty in our judgement. Experience must tell you that there are so many factors that could cause this type of loss of control, ranging from an inexperienced pilot showing off, to an aircraft malfunction. One thing that does spring to mind is the possibility of control interference. I have been piloting a helicopter on short finals to a landing site, when my own bl00dy co-pilot got his foot stuck on one of the pedals, so I wouldnt rule out the idea of a heli unaware passenger doing the same. Although no-where near as dramatic as this, it could have been. Is it possible that dual controls were fitted and there was the chance someone in the front turned round to take a pic or speak to the person behind them, and jammed their foot forward inadvertently? Maybe, maybe not, but we should not be so quick to judge just yet, as reality can often be very different from first appearances.
Still - gotta admit though, I would love to hear the pilots story!

[JimBall]

Horror: come off it. There was only one person involved in the way that heli jumped into the air and wavered on the edge of disaster, and it wasn't a passenger.

Look at the site - the pilot's first mistake was landing there in the first place. Then look at the lift-off - no power check. And a leap into the air that defies description.

EEJIT.

[skidbiter2]

Here we go again!
Last post sounds like a reporter the way things are dramatized :)

[PPRuNe Radar]

Senior Pilot's previous advice still holds good.

It is perfectly acceptable to take totally opposing viewpoints, but let's keep the discussion rational and not get personal.

If you want to debate what you think might have happened, then please do just that. Personal opinions on the character of the pilot involved are purely that, in the abscence of an account from him/her which would vindicate or damn them, and we don't really need to see them aired here.

Discussing possible scenarios can be educational and raise awareness, and also bring in posters with expertise to further explore the issues we all want to hear more about.

Abuse and personal attacks don't help at all.

Onwards and upwards .....

[Simon853]

Considering they were (very) newlyweds being lifted away, is it not possible they were "getting jiggy" in the back and the weight and balance was thrown all over the place? :)

Or perhaps the pilot was temporarily blinded by flying underwear...

Si

[What Limits]

How many pilots on here would not be looking to land asap if they had had some sort of control malfunction?

[wobble2plank]

Just my humble opinion but it seems that it was a tad windy on the day (you can hear it on the microphone and see it in the clothes being blown about).

I think our chap wanted to do a spiralling take off. Nothing unusual in that, I have done a few myself in the dim and distant past. It all seemed to go wrong when he got his 'chopper' above the barn and into the main wind. It looks like he ran out of tail rotor authority and started windmilling before he could recover.
The 'instinctive' reaction is to hoik in the power, somewhat exacerbating the problem as you have no pedal left to arrest the turn. After a short while the 'forward' airspeed helps him out a bit and he gets it under control.

A huge brown trousers moment and, to be honest, one that I would be mightily embarresed about if it were me. However, look at the punters on the ground, they think it is all part of the game plan! Who'd of thought it.

W2P

[oldpinger]

Back to rampant semi-informed speculation- Having been on dispersal next to a B2 that inadvertently lifted without hydraulics on (collective lock not engaged properly during hyd test) I don't think he would have got that far airborne.

I'm also pretty sure B2/3s don't suffer from LTE as much as say-206s. granted the wind was strong above the trees, depends on the direction however for LTE.
Saying that, the last thing he had was yaw control until the large nose down to get airspeed up. Can you get 'servo lock' in Yaw? Be interesting to find out the AUW and power margin...

As for the landing site- how much room do you need???? Admittedly a fair potential for downwash induced FOD, but fairly good tip clearance and at least he tried to take off into wind.

My vote is someone got caught out by a number of factors he hadn't seen before in that combination, added to the 'pressure' of taking off in front of a crowd. The old formula- pilot+crowd [Can] = problems.

Previous posters overlook one fact- he DID recover the aircraft from the initial stuff up and managed to keep it together to flyover again:D personally I would have been pooping pants after that and departed on track a long way above the ground.

[chutedragger]

You beat me to my point. I dont know how anyone could have lte in a B3, in the conditions shown in the video. The roofs would be blowing off the buildings showing us wind gusts that would effect a b3 to take off like that. That machine would not have seen more than 85 % on take off with 5 200 lb guys on board and full fuel! Hydraulics off with the collective not locked does appear to be far more plausible, and if that is the case (dumb) but a good job saving it...as they are complete bears to wrestle.

[Bronx]

Some of the posts in this thread show Rotorheads at it's worst and do no credit to a fine forum.
Unless there was a malfunction it looks like the pilot made some mistakes. If he did, he isn't the first and he won't be the last.
Maybe it was 99% luck and 1% judgement, but he recovered it and nobody got hurt but instead of being allowed to learn from it quietly, we get someone who posts a link to the video AND posted the reg. (Now removed either by him or the mods.)
Southern Xross says he did it because "crucial that this kind of flying be made public."
Well he achieved his aim. Now it's on the biggest rotary site on the net and on Sky News as well as YouTube.
Is that public enough? :rolleyes:
The person who posted it on the You Tube probably did it without realising what a stir it would cause.
SC knew exactly what he was doing. He wanted to cause maximum trouble for another pilot, and the same goes for some of the other Irish posters.

[delta3]

Maybe a more "human" explanation: was so bussy with taking off (confined, building blocking oversight, passengers) and fixed on the idea of making a parade before the crowd, that he forgot about the wind direction...

Overwelmd by the context...

d3

[oldpinger]

D3 and Chutedragger and Bronx- Concur with everything you say. Which brings me to an important point-
Public examination of this sort of thing is actually valuable, IF there is a lesson that can be learned so that people that haven't seen that combination of events etc etc before will think- "Holy Cr*p, I remember this- some bloke in a Youtube video was nearly killed in these circumstances" before doing it.
I've crunched a squirrel :O and lost a couple of friends in other crashes:sad:, all possibly could have been avoided with that bit of passed down corporate knowledge causing the hairs on the back of the neck to rise before you do something dumb/unsafe/outside the design spec of your aircraft.
It's called Flight Safety people!!:ok: and a bit of risk management- Identify the hazards and publish them before someone else finds out the hard way.

[skidbiter2]

Hedski

Ah, I see, that will explain it, fair enough.

Commercial opp's on private rating isn't uncommon (not saying thats what is going on in the video, as I have no idea), so I understand your position.

ok, have had more consideration on the whole thing, and I am on a quite job and am bored so....

Apart from the fact of whether he/she was legally able to perform the flight.
I think the area was plenty big enough and clear of garbage ect.
For a B3, having 3 adults and one baby on board, it would have had more power in reserve than it new what to do with (if that was the total pax on board)?
I don't think the wind speed SHOULD have been an issue, if he/she had just performed a towering take off straight ahead into the wind over the trees, instead of peddle turning up and then the wind catching and turning it faster than he/she anticipated (I am assuming here, and it appears to me the wind was coming from on the nose of the heli when it was parked).

Maybe he/she was just thinking of turning the heli around so the pax could wave to the guests on the way out and it just didn't go his/her way?

Once, again, I don't think the pilot should be locked up and the key thrown away because of what happened!
More training - yes, or it could have been a brain fart on the day?
On the legalities of the flight, that is something different, and I have no comment on that.;)

[Bladecrack]

Now the AS350 in question is not on an AOC (as far as I'm aware, standing by to be corrected), hence if the owner or pilot is not closely related to pax in some way it becomes Public Transport category flying.

Hedski,

What is the relevance of who is related to who? Are you suggesting that if my next door neighbour gets married, and I take him and his wife out in my helicopter free of charge, that is public transport? I suggest you look at the rules again :hmm:

BC

[Two's in]

Well, if you really want to know just how terrible this stuff can get, read about Huw Paffard here;

http://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/investigation_reports/1999/AAIR/aair199900645.aspx

He was an experienced ex-military pilot, including RN and Army time, who probably died in the most horrific circumstances possible, while committing the most basic of errors. All those who have commented about the lack of experience of the pilot in the video clip, or him being just a "PPL" might note that in numerous accidents, experience has counted for nothing when overall professionalism has failed. As anyone involved in accident investigation will tell you, "Judge not, lest ye be judged..."

The Agusta /Bell 47G-2A1 helicopter, registered VH-FLI, was borrowed by the pilot to fly his sister to her wedding at the family property near Holbrook NSW.

The pilot arrived at the helicopter owner's property around 0900 Eastern Standard Time on the day of the accident, and with assistance from the owner, he completed a pre-flight inspection of the helicopter. The pilot subsequently conducted a number of flights on the day of the accident.

At about 1730, the pilot and his sister boarded the helicopter and departed in an easterly direction. The pilot then followed a route that ran adjacent to the Holbrook to Jingellic road in order to remain near the car being driven by his mother.

Witnesses reported that the helicopter was flying at a very low height as it neared Chinamans Gap. At approximately 1745, when the helicopter was about 6 km from its destination, it struck a powerline, pitched nose down and impacted the ground on its left side. The impact and the subsequent fire fatally injured the occupants and destroyed the helicopter.

[oldpinger]

2s in
yup, that was one of the friends I was talking about....
:(

[Bronx]

Hedski

"Now the AS350 in question is not on an AOC (as far as I'm aware, standing by to be corrected), hence if the owner or pilot is not closely related to pax in some way it becomes Public Transport category flying."
Is that the law in the six counties of Northern Ireland? :confused:
There's no such law in the US nor from what I've read here over the years in Britain.

"Would anyone agree it's better to debate this issue now to minimise damage instead of another accident thread."
Yes I would, IF the debate was about what mistakes the pilot made or might have made and what the pilot and others who watch the video and read the debate can learn from it.

"String him up by his Gonads, leave him there to dry, assuming it was a he."
Maybe that's your idea of debating an issue to minimise damage instead of another accident thread.
It sure ain't mine.


I'm glad I don't fly in Ireland.
Too much bitching and too much trying to do other folk down for my liking.

[tu154]

Flungdung, with respect that's rubbish. So you are saying no one should fly in Ireland, north or south?
There are plenty of reputable operators, owners and pilots! The cowboys tend to get everyone tarred with the same brush.

[Bronx]

FD
"If you knew how much flaunting of the rules of aviation that goes on in Ireland (N & S) you would not want to fly there. "

Why?
Is the accident rate any worse than in Britain where there are loads of strict regs that are strictly enforced? :confused:

[Jarvy]

It seems that the video has been removed from You Tube, too much flak ??
From the point of a low hours pilot (me) the site is all wrong for a single with a PPL at the controls(if he/she is a PPL).
We don't all have thousands of hours and I,m sure we have all made a few mistakes but very few have had the fame of You Tube when said mistake takes place.
Jarvy

[Robino]

Gentlemen, they were more than likely friends of either the aircraft owner or the pilot.... as long as money didnt change hands for the flight its legal.

The Irish Heli scene is very strongly regulated by the IAA just look at the presence they had at the WRC last November, with all the relevant checks in place.

Illegal ops are as common in Europe and not just Ireland as stated;)

[ppvvmm]

The pilot would be unwise to give his side of what happened on here.

If the CAA are becoming interested, he would be best served by silence, so as to reduce any risks of prosecution.

The incident, which is still viewable on SkyNews website, looks very scary and almost fatal... but no more so than other things I have seen without attracting 8 pages of comment.

If I had done that, I would be in shock for a few weeks!

pvm

[oldpinger]

Hmmmm no video on youtube anymore......

[wobble2plank]

Oldpinger:

Hmmmm no video on youtube anymore......

Evidence for the 'subsequent board of inquiry' me old mucker :\

[Bronx]

flungdung

exposure like this has increased awareness and flight safety - however much you disagree with the method.

There's a big difference between exposing an incident others can learn from and exposing the individual.
We don't need to know the reg of the helicopter or the ID of the pilot to learn from another guy's mistake.


B.

[manfromuncle]

Well... on the one hand, exposure of incidents like this may educate pilots and help them avoid similar 'mishaps', on the the other hand, it re-enforces the myth that helicopters are dangerous and just go out of the control and crash at the drop of a hat.

I've lost count of the number of people/passengers who have asked me 'why do helicopters always crash?, aren't they dangerous? what happened to those Chelsea people/Colin McCrea etc?", it really frustrates me that the general public perceive helicopters like this.

[Revolutionary]

flungdung, why is the hydraulic theory (as put forth by chutedragger) b.s.? I find it eminently plausible that the pilot forgot to put the hydraulics back on after straightening out the pedals on the last shutdown. Then, when he unlocked the collective on this startup the thing leapt into the air sans control boost. I'm not saying that's what happened but it certainly seems like it could have happened.

If that's what happened -if- then the pilot doesn't deserve the heaps of **** piled on him by some. Anyone who's ever made a major mistake at the controls (that should include almost everyone -it certainly includes me) should be able to relate to such a faux pas.

With Youtube and camera phones everywhere we can look forward to a steady stream of questionable airmanship caught on tape. If we're going to call for the head of every pilot involved we'll be out of pilots pretty soon.

[21lefthand]

Dragman I agree with you
As an R44 ppl !!!!! The power of a B3 squirrel , pulling the lever a bit quick to get off the ground in a strong wind , panic , wrong pedel -because proper helicopters like R44's turn the other way could well be what happened?

Ps nice chicken sheds

[Fortyodd2]

The power of a B3 squirrel................

in this instance, overtorqued to 107% I am reliably informed. :eek:

[rockpecker]

Hey!!!! Everyone!!!! Whats wrong with you all?
Nothing happened here. The guy just decided to make the departure interesting and dance the B3 out of there. Squirrels do that with great ease. He was in full control! Why there is even mention of an investigation is beyond me. I often fly like that, for fun!
21lefthand, wait till you get to fly in a "proper" helicopter (such as those built in France and Russia) where the rotor turns clockwise - the right way round - and you'll never look back. The way the rotor turns doesn't matter anyway, just keep the nose straight!
The clip is still on the Skynews site. Looks like a helluva ride!!!

YEEEEE-HA!!!!:}

[A.Agincourt]

rockpecker I often fly like that, for fun!

Are you saying that you are incompetent?:ugh:

[rockpecker]

total sense of humour failure...!! :=

Just thinking, a 9 page thread on this is getting a bit much? Yes maybe the hydraulics were off, whatever, the poor guy must have had the fright of his life, thankfully everyone survived. Life moves on, let it be. The only true mistakes are those from which no lessons are learnt.

Shooo, everybody, off you go. Go, go now! Go play! :rolleyes:

[FairWeatherFlyer]

There will now be fewer pilots performing these kinds of stunts in public and maybe that will have saved some lives - and thereby help to improve the public perception of helicopter safety that these idiots destroy on a daily basis.

Examples of take-offs both good and bad are valuable lessons. I think stunt is too stronger word until the facts come out.

It's back on youtube, btw, the Internet never 'forgets',

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPfLBWrynSE

[oldbeefer]

Hey!!!! Everyone!!!! Whats wrong with you all?
Nothing happened here. The guy just decided to make the departure interesting and dance the B3 out of there. Squirrels do that with great ease. He was in full control! Why there is even mention of an investigation is beyond me. I often fly like that, for fun!
!!:}
OK - I've 10,000hrs of which 2000 are on Squirrels. I do not agree with rockpecker! The pilot must be either incompetent or a complete tosser!!

[rockpecker]

Chill oldbeefer, I was just joking. I dont really fly like that. Maybe the bride's dress got caught up in the controls, or her veil got wrapped around the pilots head. Anyway, they survived, lived to tell the tale, and bear the brunt of the criticism that follows.
Maybe the pilot, if he is aware of pprune, should put his side of what really happened here too. So we can all learn, without judging.

[oldbeefer]

Easy to say 'chill', but I've lost several friends who decided to 'put on a show'. They all speared in killing themselves and those with them. Think before you push the limits (and YOUR limits), that's my point! Have a safe Christmas everyone.

[madman1145]

Just seen the movie, over and over again ..

- What about this explanation for a change, the way I see what happens ..

Liftoff is fully controlled by pilot. Quite coordinated, note the heli doesn't start to turn about itself when it momentarily gets light on the skids just before complete liftoff (light on the skids looks for me to be when the airframe start to jiggle a bit just before liftoff and engine sound winds nicely up) ..

When force is being put into the blades (collective rises) without having coordination with the pedals, turning about itself while light on the skids is something I would expect to see if it wasn't fully controlled ..
If one take a 350 airborn like you do a R44 or any other sluggish helicopter, it will go very veeery fast airborn and not fairly gently like this - 350 is mentally flown, not by moving the controls like a R44 or B206 for that sake - it's a "Feel the force Luke" helicopter ..

Vertical climb while turning about itself is fully controlled. With hyd-off and a sudden liftoff I would expect to see a reward to the right going movement of the heli, since that's the position the cyclic of a 350 will force itself to move with approx. 21 kilos of force if I am remembering correct ..

The transition from vertical climb and at the same time turning about itself that goes into a forward movement while still turning about itself is somehow controlled and at least fully induced by the pilot, despite it doesn't look nicely coordinated (and now things start to go wrong for Mr./Mrs. Pilot). Its something I have only done in hoverheight and no strong winds and only seen a Pro like Dennis Kenyon do in the air OGE in a Schweizer ..

The now not so nicely coordinated turning about itself while moving ahead in the strong winds induces now more forcefull and probably some abrupt movements in the controls by the pilot, which after a full turn now result in a short momentarily hydraulic hardover and the nose suddenly pitches down for a moment. The pilot is now, and not before until now, in a real recovery situation (HYD is back online but pitch is severely down, cows a really BIG) caused by missing the 7 P's (Prior Proper Preperation Prevents Piss Poor Performance) and going beyond the pilots own skills ..

Just my five cents ..

- madman

[mini]

Guys, My take on this incident (and that is all it was...)

Accelerated ratings due to a cash backlog.

Too many Subaru drivers with the freecash to acquire a ppl (h)

Every sandpit owner on the Island of Ireland has the wherewithal to acquire a PPL(H)

All have the fee's but have the sense. Passed the test, now I'm on my own, I'll do what I want...

[BlenderPilot]

There has been 3 famous similar threads dealing with this type of flying . . . . .

- This AS350 Wedding Video(Although I have to admit on this latest one, the pilot was not just stupid, but also sucked at flying a helicopter, his poorly planned stunt almost got a few people killed)

- The Rod Tinney Affair (He Hit a Photographers Head with his Bell 412 while doing a low level turn as he was taking some skydivers up)

- And then the A119 Koala which I thought was beautiful, but a more than a few would have hung the pilot up by the gonads if they gotten their hands on him.

We should keep track of these public crucifictions . . . .

[Revolutionary]

Blender, you forgot the R44 LTE video thread. Maybe we could start a list of undesirable pilots. Preferably in German. And give them all a big patch to wear on their flight jackets to indicate their status. Maybe a yellow patch. And then... somebody stop me please...

[ralphmalph]

Looking at this a number of times:

I thought I might have been guilty of a few of these mistakes...

However:

a. I know where the wind is and how strong it is (ie I would not turn downwind at low a/s if i could avoid it)
b. Having experienced LTE at heights between 800 and 3000 ft I would not want to do it again.!
c. After scaring the living daylights out of myself (and pax), I would not have come to a hover in a single which would have resulted in a crash landing due to the lack of a suitable aircraft configuration i.e. auto as opposed to smash.

Knob, whichever why you want to put it!.

Lesson learnt?...i think not!

I can honestly say that video was a stark reminder of how not to fly.

Regards

Ralph

[HELOFAN]

What Video ?

[madman1145]

Interesting :hmm: ..

Someone is trying to delete this from the public, hoping it will be forgotten - But when its on the Net, it stays on the Net :rolleyes: ..
Another link: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=c66_1197396834

- madman

[bopter]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPfLBWrynSE

[HELOFAN]

Now we have all seen some one who cant fly take off in a helicopter.

It the landing that is going to be interesting.

I wish we had a video of that.

Maybe it is Hog at the controls again !!

:ooh:

[Scissorlink]

It the landing that is going to be interesting.Thats him landing on the Dolly :p