Mobile phones on long range flights

[Skydrol Leak]

I have heard that Ryanair is getting ready to launch their "phone while you fly" policy from the next year on.OK, fair enough being on a short haul flight listening to 180 people in the same secluded space ringing on and on seems anoying, but one can definately spare the frustration over it since the flights are fairly short.
Hey, how about an 12 hour flight with 550 people on board?
If the flag carriers decide to take this to the next level we have a whole lotta different travelling experience happening.

[AltFlaps]

Most of the 'biggies' are looking at this as we speak. I know of at least 3 airlines with plans to test equipment.

I'm not sure if the CAA will approve this technology yet though. It basically means having a base station on board each aircraft which will then relay the calls back to the cell phone networks via a sat link.

I'm guessing calls are going to be pretty expensive though. You will obviously be 'tied into' roaming on the only network available to you - i.e. the one you're flying in !

[I Just Drive]

It has great potential from an operations perspective. Direct contact to ops for all the operators without sat comms. De-selectable below 10'000 and any other times not suitable. I'm all in favour.

[Herod]

I gather some trains now have "mobile free" carriages, the signals being blocked by some means. How long before Ryanair offer "quiet seats" at a premium?

[Sallyann1234]

It has great potential from an operations perspective. Direct contact to ops for all the operators without sat comms. De-selectable below 10'000 and any other times not suitable. I'm all in favour.

Err - the plane will require a satcom to link the on-board base station to the ground networks.

[Gooneyone]

What a sickening thought - being stuck in a plane with a bunch of yodels with their cell phones ringing constantly and everyone talking at the top of their voices.
I'm already pi**ed of in restaurants when you see (more correctly hear) these people eating with their cell phones taped to their ears and talking at the top of their voices. Waiting in hope for one of them to choke.
I may be old fashioned, but that is the height of discourtesy, and they are public nuisances.

[Gnirren]

I agree, traveling on airplanes is a pain as it is. With mobiles ringing every 2 minutes it's not going to get better.I feel sorry for the poor cabincrew who will have to work in a cellphone mayhem too. (180 italians all armed with phones, nice) I think people will definitely love the service though and they're bound to make money from it. Knowing Ryanair the fees will be nice and high.

[pwalhx]

As a frequent traveller short and long haul, the thought of mobiles being allowed on flights horrifies me, that little oasis of peace from the onstant ringing of irritating ring tones is a pleasure.

Can we start a campaign to stop mobiles in flight asap.

[PAXboy]

There must be 48 threads about this in the PPRuNe archive ...

The technology WILL be approved, in fact it already IS in some countries. Each cabin will be able to support a maximum number of simultaneous calls and other call attempts will fail, until another call is ended. A carrier could increase the number of simultaneous calls by installing more equipment.

The cost will be high and most will not bother beyond a one minute "I'm cruising over the Atlantic" call which, I agree, will be grim. However, you will not hear most of the conversations as the overall level of background noise in the cabin will block it out. Your neighbours in Y are another matter!

It is expected that the service will only operate when the IFE system does, which is above 10,000'. Don't think of trying to stop it because you can't. Money is the answer.

[ryansf]

Come on... just because you can ring someone on a plane, doesn't mean that ALL 189 people on board will be on their phone for the entire flight. How about some common sense, people!! How many people do you see using the inbuilt phones on long haul flights? I suspect it will have similar charges. I for one won't be using it if it is over 20p a minute! ;)

[marlowe]

ryansf of course they will use it simply because they can!!! its bad enough now trying to get them turned off for take off so god knows what it will be like then . Dont start me on Blackberries either!!!!!!!!!

[MarcJF]

I agree, they will get used for novelty value. Came back from Dubai this week, had a phone in the seat on Emirates, I managed a quick call to my 8 year old son, who just wanted to speak to his dad on a plane! I could have been on the damn thing the whole flight, company would pay, but it's so nice to get a bit of quiet - keep the charges high and the calls short.

[10secondsurvey]

Actually Marlow, you've raised a good point. It is already a common problem getting some pax to keep their phones off when required by CC, so I can only assume it will be much harder to persuade pax to do so, when they can use them throughout the flight.

Mobile phones on aircraft is a cast-iron recipe for arguments and fights. Can you imagine sitting next to someone blabbing and having their phone ring continuously during say, an eleven hour west coast flight. Even normally calm pax would eventually get aggressive.

Any airline that introduces this will no longer be used by me. A bl**dy awful idea.

[PAXboy]

They won't actually be able to use them throughout the flight. When the in cabin transmitter (a pico cell) is turned off - then their phones won't work. It is generally being stated that the relay transmitter will be off when the a/c is below 10,000 and that it can be turned off at any time - without warning - if the flight crew determine it.

No, I don't like it either but that is what I have read. Having been in voice based telecommunications for 15 years, I still follow the industry.

[computer jockey]

Will users be told to switch off when descending through 10,000ft? I can imagine the arguments then...
"Why do I have to switch it off? Your airline advertises the fact that I can use my mobile on your flights!!"

Then when the pico cell gets turned off there will be a hundred mobile phones transmitting on maximum power, searching for the base station 10000ft below. Wonder what order of interference that would cause to the flight instruments?

[PAXboy]

Yes indeed cj that is my question - which I'm sure will be fully answered by the carriers before departure ... :rolleyes:

[mp413]

Can someone explain whether there is actually any danger posed by cell phones being used on flights, and if so what it is? As it stands now all carriers I have flown since cell phones became common prohibit them on the ground they interfere with "navigation systems." Presumably whatever technology is now permitting the use of cell phones gets around that danger, but I would love for someone to explain that to me.

Esp. in light of comments on this forum incl. from self-professed pilots regarding them or their fellow CC having forgotten to turn off their cell-phone and finding it beeping while at cruising alt.

mp413

[strake]

They won't actually be able to use them throughout the flight. When the in cabin transmitter (a pico cell) is turned off - then their phones won't work.

Whilst the phones won't be able to make or receive calls through the on-board cell, they will be still be turned on but now, they will be polling away on full signal strength, desperately trying to find a transmitter until turned off. So either the airlines are going to risk people on-board leaving their phones on deliberately or accidentally, or, they've decided it isn't actually dangerous anyway.

[PAXboy]

mp413 There are MANY threads about this subject and the search function will find them. The current thread 'GPS' that is in this forum is a starting point. http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=303450
Of course, most everyone disputes what most everyone else says but I draw particular reference to the posts from radeng who is a radio engineer of long standing.

A survey I saw in a magazine yesterday (and cannot now locate) was by IATA (I think) and stated that less than 20% of pax wanted in flight phones. Interestingly, the percentage of folks that 'did not mind' was greater in the US, than in the UK.

I have no doubt that it will happen.
I have no doubt the research will be fudged (good or bad).
I have no doubt it will annoy the heck out of many of us.
If it makes money for an individual carrier, I have no doubt that it will stay.

[ZFT]

PAXboy,

Unfortunately you are 100% correct.

[Tango and Cash]

PAXboy is absolutely right, it comes down to the $$. I will be investing my $$ in a better pair of noise-cancelling headphones!

[derekl]

The pico cell could be left on continuously, thus 'capturing' on-board phones. The satellite relay could simply be disabled below 10,000ft, the phones wouldn't connect to anywhere, but would not crank up to max power. The transmit power of the phone is controlled by the local cell, in this case the pico-cell. It only moves the phone to another cell ('hands off') when another cell on the same network has a stronger signal. There won't be one.

[Pax Vobiscum]

derekl, what you say sounds correct and sensible to me (though I make no claims to be a GSM/3G expert). BUT at some point a picocell will fail or be erroneously switched off in mid-flight. THEN all the active phones will ramp up to max power, and we will find out whether cell phone transmissions can interfere with avionics.

I, for one, would prefer not to be on board when this experiment takes place. :eek: