Malaysia based flying academy

[klumpur]

If you were given a chance to choose any one of these Malaysia based flying academy, which 1 will you choose to be enrolled with?


-Malaysia Flying Academy (MFA) www.mfa.edu.my
-Asia Pacific Flight Training (APFT) www.asiapacificflighttraining.com
-Gulf Golden International Flying Academy (GGIFA) www.ggifa.org
-HM Aerospace (HMA) www.hmaerospace.com
-Integrated Aviation Academy (IAA) www.integrated-avac.com
-Subang Flying Club (SFC) www.subanghighflyers.com
I am actually doing this survey for some reason. I've heard tonnes of bad testimonial about Malaysia flying school. As for me, I'm a newbie planning to be a self-funded pilot and hopefully this survey could help me isolate some of the "GOOD" and "BAD" schools.

IT WOULD BE GREAT IF EVERYONE CAN GIVE REASON WHY THEY CHOOSE THAT PARTICULAR SCHOOL AND WHY NOT OTHERS.

Thank you.

[thornycactus]

Hello klumpur,

Ah...long time never hear about these Malaysian Flight Schools!

There are many F.I. from these flight schools in this forum and those negetive discussion threads (related to these Malaysian flight schools) were pushed back.

Believe it or not, if you do a search, you will notice that these threads were no longer discussed. They were done on purpose, so that newbies (who wanted to fly in Malaysia) are unable to read those bad things about Malaysian Flight schools! :eek:

By the way, SFC is not an APFT school. It is a club. :)

[Passenger 07]

The story of the Malaysian Schools is a serie of avatars since MFA explodes in 2002.
It could have been brilliant, unfortunately Business men expecting a fast return on investment or short in cash flow with exagerated ambitions, have invaded this activity. I will stay generic.
The Ground Schools are generally in order, however a trend to work only the examination questions and not to teach the subjects. All the notes are -more or less- updated versions of MFA notes, themselves "inspired" by the deceased british school PPSC. The CA6/CA2 system (plus DCAT) monitored by UK CAA need to be updated and Malaysian DCA is expecting to go JAR (or close to) at some times but obviously the schools are far to be ready for this improvement and most of Groundies are underestimating the work to be done to be at JAR level, believing it is just a slight enhancement of UK-CAA International system.
But compared to neighbours,- (most on Basic ICAO/FAA ground studies) the Malaysians Ground Schools can -for most of them- be considered as OK.
In the Malaysian FTOs, the main issue is the Flying Side: in general not enough Flight Instructors, poor "standardisation", poor activity management, botched instrument Rating phase, very poor utilisation of simulators by the instructors.
In some schools, Militaries - without any clues of Civil Aviation culture- are dominating. To explain the issue, I will compare with a restaurant: a chinese "Chef" is very good for chinese cooking, a french "chef" is very good for western cooking but if you ask the french "chef" to prepare chinese cooking without a 'bridging" training, the result will be quite poor (and vice versa for the chinese "chef"). On this specific issue, UK CAA has edited a "flight training guide" for military pilots who want to join civil aviation activities. This document is a good base to organise "bridging courses". Unfortunately, too much arrogance makes people deaf and blind.
Some schools are recruiting flight Instructors in a panic due to the flooding of their flying school, there is no standardisation and some instructors are notoriously ' far below what we can expect.
Another point is often the chaotic organisation of the fleet maintenance: have you ever seen 70% of a fleet grounded for scheduled maintenance? yes, it can happen in some Malaysian FTOs. What about control of some maintenance operations? How the work of a LAME (Licensed Aircraft Maintenance Engineer) can be checked if there is only one LAME in the school?

For Klumpur, if really you want to become a good professional, I recommand to get a full JAR licence in one of the worldwide schools training in the JAR system and then to make a conversion in Malaysian License. From some feedback, I have understood MAS is fully obstructed by political pressures but the secret wish of MAS executives is to train their cadets...abroad.

This is my 3 cents on the Malaysian FTOs

[MAS Guy]

Wow Passanger 07, you hit it direct on the nose. I was trained abroad so I can say that it is true. Even MAS cadets nowadays the standards are dropping , but when they get the experience, a lot will be leaving MAS and going to middle east. Real soon more from MAS and AK will also be leaving. I heard from a friend told me that AK does not have to pay their co pilot good money due to they are not "Marketable". See what will he say after this. MAS co pilot also will leave due to being stuck for few years in the wide body. Well bottom line is, more money over there.

I still think the best training school here in Malaysia is MAS training center, where they trained co pilot till they get 1500 to 3000 hrs, and the co pilot migrated outside.

For training school to get your ATPL, I guest, better check the Kelantan trainning school. Too many horror stories about Melaka. About Langkawi, I'm not sure.

[Brianigham]

You really want to be asking yourself where you can get the training to be a good pilot, not just a license to get employed. Your basics will always be with you.
Get a broader perspective. Widen your search.
biased;)...go "down under" The real home of aviation:ok:....like i said....I'm biased!

[420]

its true. the training down under is for more better and more streamlined compared to malaysian flying schools.and with more airports and lesser traffic and many many little aerodromes spread all through out the rock,the experience you get is excellent.

and the $$$ is really not that much different compared to local trg.

[SEA-MD11]

come to the u.s.
full time students can usually get CPL/IR/ME ratings done less than one year.

[Passenger 07]

Enough of sabotage: there is a "Learning Curve" which has to be respected: all proper Instructors and teachers know this fact.

If a FAA licence can be done in one year, a standard JAR CPL/IR with MCC requires a minimum of 70 working weeks. (Holidays to be added)
The "dry" FAA licence is notoriously insufficient by itself. The only time, USA have tried to train Ab-Initio cadets for their own needs was in 2000 under a Clinton project. Unfortunately it has derailed due to September 11 events. USA have no Ab Initio Cadets scheme and no real experience on that. The FAA licence is inappropriate -alone- , it requires experience + University Grades:

==>Today, major US require experience (General Aviation/Military) and Aeronautical/Aviation University diplomas in plus of the FAA Licence .

But there are some famous US schools doing the JAR system (one of them has even trained the British Airways Cadets) as well as some Australian and sure all the European schools (and even a Thai school is starting on the Jar system); you have a worldwide choice if you want an adapted and proper ab-initio training giving you a maximum of chances to join an Airlines with a low hour log book and a professional profile so that, later on, your employer will not hesitate to promote you as a commander when you will reach the required seniority level.

If one day you need a FAA licence, as a JAR licence holder, it will be quite easy to pass through the examinations, there are several threads on this topic.....
"A walk in a park" as one JAR licensed ppruner was describing the FAA test...

You can find on Internet the Canadian Authority study (600 pages or more) which has motivated the shift of the Canadian system in 2002/2003 from a FAA similar system to a JAR close one; the invoked main reason was the Airline claims that the skills and knowledge of new pilots were not at the level Airlines needs.....

---------------------------------------
Extract of Wilkipedia Encyclopedia
The concept of the learning curve was introduced by the 19th-century German psychologist Hermann Ebbinghaus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermann_Ebbinghaus) in his study of the efficiency of memorization. Ebbinghaus tested his long-term memory by attempting to memorize a series of nonsense syllables. He found that the more he repeated the series, the more of it he could remember, until finally he could recall the whole list. (In the same context, Ebbinghaus also introduced the term "forgetting curve (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forgetting_curve)".[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learning_curve#_note-3))
In 1936, Theodore Paul Wright (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodore_Paul_Wright) described the effect of learning on labor productivity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labor_productivity) in the aircraft industry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aircraft_industry) and proposed a mathematical model of the learning curve[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learning_curve#_note-4).

[anito4a]

All the notes are -more or less- updated versions of MFA notes, themselves "inspired" by the deceased british school PPSC.

"Inspired" is an interesting choice of words ... it's more like plagiarized, photocopied directly from books in the UK, but with MFA cover. It's wonder they haven't been sued for copyright infringement. :rolleyes:

[anito4a]

My advice to you is check with the Malaysian DCA about whats required with license conversions if you do go down the path of getting a JAA or CASA license (forget about the FAA license). License conversions can be quite involved and costly too. If you want to fly in Malaysia and you are Malaysian, then get the Malaysian license. GGFIA looks very promising and have some experienced instructors from the Langkawi school. Check out their new website with their plans on development; it's very impressive. http://www.ggifa.org/

[ssangyongs]

only consider GGIFA and APFT. MFA should be your last choice although it's my alma mater the mass exodus of experienced FI there, expect the low quality standard of training there....unlike years before....

APFT has some grueling schedule for cadets. Woke up at 5, cant stay in the hostel even you dont fly that day . Only allowed to be back at hostel after 5pm.But discipline is good isn't it.

[Passenger 07]

Not so costly the Conversion ...as mainly only the ground School is involved (More some foreign schools -Australia, Thailand for example-, have former Malaysian Ground Instructors in their staff and can prepare you to the Malaysian CA2/CA6, within the "package" ). The Flying side of the conversion is reduced to some tests. It is well known than some european Instructors, JAR licence holders, have passed the Malaysian licence examination -on their own, without any ground training, because the JAR level is highly covering the Malaysian syllabus (Except in few obsolete remnants not yet removed in the Malaysian syllabus and that you have to study again in depth and some very few old questions in which today technology has nullified the good answer).
It is better to be trained as a professional and to get a Job in an airlines than to be useless and unable to reimburse the bank loans: consider twice the situation, the Malaysian market is fuelled with Malaysian CPL/IR most of them of poor quality due to their poor training, ....not every new malaysian CPL/IR will join the first class airlines,.... on contrary a proper professional training will give you a definitive advantage and later on the possibility to get a larger choice: choice of Airlines, not only to be confined to Malaysia....

Check thoroughly GGFIA and the other Malaysian schools, a Website can be an impressive construction of a IT specialist far from the real world.... Internet is the world of "Virtual".

I recommand to check particularly:
-Ratio of students per Flight Instructor, (Overall - Students in the Ground School and in the Flying School-less than 6 students per one Flight Instructor)
-fleet (one aircraft = around 6/7 students per year MAXIMUM),
-maintenance (How many LAME -Licensed Aircraft Maintenance Engineer) . The JAR/FAR states that some operations must be cross checked.... so a bare minimum of 2 LAME, how is done this maintenance? Are the students autorised to fill the technical log book? If the technical log book are fully empty.... it does not mean that the aircraft are correctly maintained, on contrary.... there is probably somewhere a secrete note book....
- Do your contract (Like Airline cadet) comprise an engagement on maximum duration of the training and financial penalties if not respected?
Good Luck

[cruisercruiser]

Some of the schools were being discussed at length here:

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=165062

Cheers

[thornycactus]

Some of the schools were being discussed at length here:http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=165062
Cheers
That's good! Finally somebody initiated digging out something! :)

[thornycactus]

only consider GGIFA and APFT. MFA should be your last choice although it's my alma mater the mass exodus of experienced FI there, expect the low quality standard of training there....unlike years before....
I like to see the words highlighted in orange! :cool:

[Passenger 07]

From Charibes to Scylla....

It is the Latin expression which is adequate for the current situation
Thornycactus: This Digging out must be updated... MFA is not the only one to be pointed out now... the situation presents some variations with the newcomings but the results are similar... far from what we can expect...

[Chrome]

Kota Bahru is the best place for training now. You should seriously consider Kota Bahru or MFA.

Err... forget MFA, just go Kota Bahru.

[SmileAirlines]

How about HM Aerospace? Are they still in "chaos"?

BTW, Garuda is sending 20 of their cadets to HMA next February... I don't know why GA chose HMA where they are better flying schools around in the region...

JA

[thornycactus]

Kota Bahru is the best place for training now. You should seriously consider Kota Bahru or MFA. Err... forget MFA, just go Kota Bahru.
I like to see this bold + underline + red word! :D

[thornycactus]

How about HM Aerospace? Are they still in "chaos"?

The Principal was sacked this year. I may be still internal chaotic. :mad: There are instructors and students hiding in this forum. Wait till they tell you the truth.

[Franchoute]

Does any one have up to date info about GGIFA College of Aviation, Bintulu?

FIs and Cadets welcome with comments.

Thanks

[Passenger 07]

Seems some transfers from HMA...But has to be verified

[lesenterbang]

Does any one have up to date info about GGIFA College of Aviation, Bintulu?

Currently operating 1 PA-28 (http://www.airliners.net/photo/Integrated-Training-&/Piper-PA-28-161-Cherokee/1326388/L/) and 2 Eagle 150 (http://www.airliners.net/photo/Eagle-150B/1324091/L/). New aircraft should arrive in April.

[beeped]

Under NO circumstances should you ever consider going into HMA.

The delays there are mind boggling; currently 11 months for the last batch and going up. Not to mention the living conditions and new rules imposed by the current management.

Do yourself a favour and stay away. You won't regret it

[taboo]

totally agree with 'beeped'. never come HMA as this school is being managed by a money freak owner, (TS). everything is about cost cutting n how to generate more money.:=:=:=

[Captain Stravaigin]

Hi ! I am (hopefully) about to finish my CPL Theory exams this month in the UK. I live in KL. Does anyone know of any Flight Schools in South East Asia that can do the necessary training and exam for the issued of a JAA Commercial Licence ? I checked with Melaka (MFA) - but they cannot offer this mainly due to the high cost of licensing and 6 monthly inspections etc.

[coffee-n-cream]

hi all..im quite new here.after reading all the scary post abt Malaysian flight training im not sure where to go.MFA definitely seems out for me.HMA after all the money issues im sure its out also.left KLIFA,GGIFA,APFT and Integrated.btw im a malaysian,holding Oz PPL.i flew in senai with Elite flying club..if money is no object,i would take JAA licence. :ugh:

[Passenger 07]

In South East Asia none a school is currently JAR, however IAC-NPU (NE Thailand) is doing a JAR fully compliant syllabus. To be fully JAR, an examination Centre must be set up in South East Asia and a twining has to be done with an european school.

[smiling monkey]

In South East Asia none a school is currently JAR, however IAC-NPU (NE Thailand) is doing a JAR fully compliant syllabus. To be fully JAR, an examination Centre must be set up in South East Asia and a twining has to be done with an european school.

So what type of license do you end up getting? Thai CPL/IR?

[Passenger 07]

You get University certificates that you have successfully pass through JAR compliant examinations and training, a MCC certificate, a JOT certificate (equivalent to the Airbus ELT) and an ICAO CPL/IR delivered by Thai DCA.
It is not the current objective of this school to compete on the European market, enough to do in the region....

[coffee-n-cream]

so is this IAC-NPU any better than the malaysian flight schools? Whats dis JAR compliant all about?

[Passenger 07]

Definitively IAC is better because it is staffed by most of the best Instructors leaving Malaysia and fed up by the poor Malaysian standards.
Our syllabus is a FULLY modular JAR compliant (Ground and Flight). Syllabus as per JAR FCL1. Training, procedures manuals and quality system fulfilling JAA regulations at 99,99%..... First of its kind in all South East Asia....

[squarecrow]

Yes but you dont have a JAA Licence Matey. First off who wants to come to Thailand for a Licence that boasts it Complies with JAR FCL but when you go back to Euro Land is worthless and that is a fact matey you would still need to undertake conversion work, fact also. If you want a JAA Lic stay in a JAA state Fact also.

[smiling monkey]

Our syllabus is a FULLY modular JAR compliant (Ground and Flight). Syllabus as per JAR FCL1. Training, procedures manuals and quality system fulfilling JAA regulations at 99,99%..... First of its kind in all South East Asia....

But your graduates do not get a JAA license, correct? Just a Thai CPL/IR? So as squarecrow mentions above, after having gone through your course, pilots will still need to to a conversion back in their home countries, unless of course they're Thai nationals and wish to fly in Thailand?

[whiskey1]

If you want a JAA Licence. Yes a FULL JAA Licence come to WA Aviation College at Perth In Western Australia.
http://www.waaviationcollege.com.au/index.asp
Do both Modular and Integrated Courses.

[roxar]

1st of all i really dont know why some ppl want to get the JAA license?..
i know it easy to convert but i think it not worth it..
because u not a citizen in JAAland..
and the JAA course in Western Australia Aviation College probably bout aud 140k and u need to do ur 1st medical checkup in JAAland...
and that also doesnt confirm that u will get a job after u get the license..
it still the license no matter which country issue the license..
because u still a pilot.. :ok:

[samfisher]

Hello,

HMA's a pretty good school i think, except that it'll take you more than 1 year to get your first flying hour.
Not to mention that instructors don't clear you for your first solo, its when you land, they clear you, just so that if anything happens, they're not in trouble.

As of MFA, they've got some real good flying instructors and all CFIs are all near perfect. The only downside of MFA is the studying condition and hostel facilities, but hey, the new building is coming up in June / July 08 the last time i heard. But, as everyone has been saying, ground school in MFA has gone to dogs. The good instructors from india has gone to other flying schools (some in ipoh and others in thailand). About 50% of the new ground instructors are good, the rest are rubbish. However, no complains about flying from that school so far.

Now let's talk about the new school, KLIFA. Which is partly based in Nilai (MIAT - Malaysian Institute of Aviation Technology), they're leasing classrooms from MIAT. After some ground school there, students are sent to Australia and when they come back, with 165 hrs of single engine, they sit for their DCAT and CA6, oh by the way, they hardly have any instructors and they're currently leasing 1 PA34 (seneca 4) from HMA which has become unservicable. They've only got 1 twin and 1 single or around that region, and has promises to buy more aircrafts. We all know how long that'll take.

Regarding other schools, i don't think there's a complaint about ground school in Ipoh, however they've only 2 TB10s and so many flying student are queing up for those aircraft so that they can do their NAV flights, because the Eagles only have 3 hours endurance.

Regarding other schools, I've not much knowledge so there's no point in speculating.

In a nut shell, I've no idea what is going on in HMA, and ground instructors in MFA will eventually become more competent in their jobs, (Come on, if you're asked to do a job you're not familiar with, it'll take time for you to familiarize yourself no?) and besides, every admin in every institute will pressure departments who're not performing, no? As for KLIFA, give it at least a few years, and check back about their progress. Its still new, and perhaps its too young.

Just my 2 cents, Happy Landings :)

* Information above may be invalid as time progress

[beeped]

Looks like you have no idea at all what's going on at all.

What do you mean the instructors only clear you when you land? They have to authorize your first solo BEFORE you take off. The fact that you're taking off means you're cleared for your first solo. :mad:

Oh, FYI, HMA never had any Senecas.

Please Please Please avoid HMA at all costs. I was 11 months overdue PLUS they're charging me an additional RM6K 'fuel surcharge' for the increase in price of JET-A1 when they hedged the price of fuel to RM3.90 for AVGAS. Yes, they're charging us for AVGAS when we use JET-A1 for training. Plus the additional amount for the JET-A1 price increase.

:mad: Rippoff.

[samfisher]

there's no means for me to defend myself but I'm just saying what students in those schools tells me. Of course I double check with others.

Then again, its still difficult to believe but.. what can i say?

*Edit : And as for the seneca, this was told to me by a student who was seeking twin engine conversion in KLIFA, meaning, the management told him that the twin was leased by HM.

I am aware by the fact that they're using Diamonds.

[beeped]

Well, I was from the school mentioned and no, we never owned any Senecas let alone leased them.

Probably your friend heard wrong - If I'm not mistaken the only HM product at KLIFA is Major Radzi :p

[malaysiacadet]

Actually, all the malaysian-based academy are about the same.

1. one of the main problem is the lack of QFIs in the whole of malaysia.(new DCA rulling which prohibits AFI course in flying club certainly doesn't help) . Most of the good QFI does not intend to be an instructor for long. many of them Move on to the Shiny Jets once they collect enough hours. Thus, forcing all the local schools to take newly-qualified inexperienced AFI from overseas.

2. Students themself. Most new students, regardless of MAS / AK / Private have no passion , pride , ..etc.etc.. in what they are doing or what they're about to do. I've seen a lot of MAS cadets taking their once in a lifetime opportunity for granted because They know that MAS wouldn't drop any cadets once they signed the contract. Knowing this, they couldn't be bothered about the training, because whatever happens, MAS will still keep them even if they have to re-sit the ATPL papers 5 times(it happened)

As for the privates, There are only a handful of those who genuinely wants to be pilot. Others join the flying school because they are too rich and don't know what else to do in life.

If you really have to study and train in Malaysia, Choose a school with the least DELAY.
____________________________________________________________ __

i don't know bout you people, but to me, JAA license are nothing to shout about. we have one JAA instructor who have no idea what is the difference between GSpd and ASpd.

[malaysiacadet]

why is a SIA cadet going to GGIFA to fly???

??? please enlighten me. how the SIA cadet programme works.

[malaysiacadet]

ah.. i see.
so when are you starting your OBS?