View Full Version : Hang Gliding anyone?

Jump Complete
7th Dec 2007, 13:19
I'm getting quite keen on the idea of taking up hang-gliding. Never tried it before, (I flew conventional gliders up to silver c standard years ago before getting my PPL.) I just fancy trying some real back to basics, relatively low cost, flying and the idea of an aircraft that goes on the roof rack of a normal car appeals. I should be starting with a regional airline in the new year (Fingeres crossed) (so I guess most of my energy will be taken up with that for the first few months!) but once established the other appeal of it is that FTLs don't come into it and it is the complete opposite type of flying! Anyone else got expereince of it, any advice?

7th Dec 2007, 13:25
Thought of paragliding?-hurts a bit when you get it wrong though:)

7th Dec 2007, 13:47
Been thinking of doing it myself actually.

What is a bit worrying is the implications of a heavy landing. It would be rather painful. Also throughout the whole of my flying career I have pushed to go down and pulled to go up. This may be a very hard habit to brake, especially went one is required to fall back on one's instincts, in a time of crisis.

7th Dec 2007, 13:52
http://tinypic.com/dp7bwj.jpg Like this???

7th Dec 2007, 14:53
I used to paraglide when I was fitter and slimmer, it was a great way to spend a weekend, camarade with the fellow pilots, being in the outdoors, climbing hills, sunshine-everything that was fun, but if the truth be known, I used to cr*p it each time I flew. A couple of our chaps were commercial pilots- reckoned paragliding was proper flying

I always had this feeling something would go wrong, canopy collapsing, rotor, the ground suddenly rushing up, all three- a dread I never felt in light aircraft. I think it was because I saw a few injuries, and in the end, I cracked a few bones myself, and so made the decision that the sport was best suited to thin, powerful, wiry types, not lardarsses like myself. Gotta say, at the time, the flights were magic- the buzz stays with you for days.

I've never had a go with hang gliders, they used to share our airspace, I think one of the advantages was they could go out in conditions were marginal or blown out for paragliders- (parapunter may correct me but I think we were generally limited to an windspeed at the top of the slope of about 12 knots).

At the time I flew the British Hangliding and Paragliding Associations merged, (? BHPA), they were a friendly lot, always willing to put up with the shortcomings of us learners.

Used to have a Harley but sold it when I realised I'd never climb into the harness again.

Paragliding, student nurses, ten quid rent, Johny, Joey, Dee Dee- good times:):)

Just found the link http://www.bhpa.co.uk/ Latest News, Nicky Moss recreates the time she was attacked by eagles...... LOVELY:}

7th Dec 2007, 16:51
I saw film once of a hang glider break a spar in flight.

Don't worry about it though because even though it folded up immediately, he actually survived the fall because the fabric acted like a streamer.

Let us know how you get on though ;)

7th Dec 2007, 17:17
I'm the Paragliding Punter. That piccy is me, on the blue one, having a nice time at the Dune de Pyla three years ago. Ten minutes after that photo was taken, I piled on on my arse so hard, that I wiggled my toes to make sure I hadn't bust my spine.

And that in a nutshell is free flight gliding. Brilliant fun & a sport that could kill you in an instant.

All the pilots I know that have been killed, were more or less asking for it - I can't think of any type of flying that is tolerant in the end of the feckless, the gung ho, the fearless or the terminally un-empathetic. Have a go, make your own mind up, but above all, choose the right attitude on the hill & deploy your brain before takeoff & you'll be alright.

Howard Hughes
7th Dec 2007, 17:36
A local cliff sees many hangliders and paragliders each weekend, I know if I was gonna try one it would be paragliding. The hangliders seem to be landed on the beach within minutes, while the paragliders seem to hang there for hours!

The Paragliders then just land, from where they departed!:ok:

Hangliding, looks like the effort doesn't match the reward...:{

7th Dec 2007, 17:41
a sport that could kill you in an instantbetter than marriage then. That can take decades.

7th Dec 2007, 18:14
Used to watch paragliders scoot off the top of nearby mountains, then they'd go away and land on the beach miles away.
Great idea, you don't have to walk back down, and it looks cool.
Until you started seeing the odd one hit a tree, rocks, cliffs, barbed wire fence or something equally dangerous or painful.
Big chicken me. Just stuck to walking.

7th Dec 2007, 18:23
Someone once told me that Hang Gliding is the only activity/sport that there is where the longer you do it and the better you become at it the higher the chances are it will kill you or seriously injure you. :uhoh:

Lamenting Navigator
7th Dec 2007, 18:24
Jump Complete - can I join you? I used to watch the hang gliders throw themselves off Sutton Bank in Yorkshire when I was a kid and have always wanted to join them! Anyone else I've asked have looked at me strangely and questioned my sanity...

7th Dec 2007, 18:34
I have tried many forms of flying. Including Paragliding.. I have a lovely crisp (but ancient) Advance o2 that is still serviceable.

Yes it is fun, and many occasion was spent in Lanzarote enjoying the hills.. In the UK I didn't do too much. Most of my flying time was spent around Marlborough. Finding good instructors and schools is a bit of a minefield. I have found both good and bad in my time..

I didn't bother to take my flying above club level.. Main reason is that I found it limiting as to when you could fly, as you are rather restricted as to the maximum winds that you can fly in. Not to mention the travel involved getting to suitable sites. Hang gliding is a little less limited, as you can fly those in stronger winds..

The nice thing about a Paraglider. Is that you can throw it into the back of a car without any problem. As for accidents.. Yes I have seen idiots doing stuff on the hillside that made me feel sick. The biggest 'fault' I have seen. Are those who don't get up enough speed before taking off, some just take a couple of steps forward and go, then wonder why (when the wind drops a bit) they find themselves dumped on the ground.

My one and only accident was landing at one site that had severe wind shear. The descent rate was such, that I managed to break part of the undercarriage (namely one leg) .... Not nice. I hasten to add that, that was very early on, and I didn't do what you should do. Which is. Come in with the brakes fully off, then when you are near the ground add brake.

So the only real downsides as I see it. Is the number of days that are flyable + the travel to sites... The latter could be resolved by venturing into Paramotoring.


7th Dec 2007, 19:19
Hangliding is more fun but much more hassle than paragliding. The performance is better but you would just not carry the thing on the offchance that the conditions are good. A paraglider in the boot of your car is no hassle at all. Hangliding is also a little more dificult and less intuitive. It is also harder, but not imposible, to fly on your own as it is very difficult to do a final check on the gear once you have straped in. Hangliders fly on marginally higher winds and cope better in turbulence on the other hand they also need stronger winds to ridge soar.

It is a wonderful sport but the key is to get trained properly and have the right attitude. Is like any other type of flying but the limits are very narrow. You exceed your limits (and mean yours and/or the gear) and you are taking grave risks, you stay within them and is pretty safe. You need a level head to drive for four hours to a mountain in Wales, carry your kit to the top of the mountain and then decide that you will not fly because is a couple of knots too strong. If you can do that you will be OK.

7th Dec 2007, 19:40
Astral, that would be an Advance Oh-my-god 2?:eek::p:p I love the way Paraglider wings always get nicknames. For Example: Nova made the Xyon (die-on), Airwave the XXX (cripple X), Gradient hte Saphire (Suffer), Gin, the Bandit (rammed it) and so on. Presently, I fly the Nova Mamboo (man-boobs), true in so many ways.

What hasn't been mentioned yet is the feeling. Sat on a hill, watching conditions closely, then once decided, taking off, hooking that thermal & climbing to cloudbase, perhaps 4-5000 ft agl on a good day, then gliding downwind, climbing & gliding, climbing and gliding until all too soon you land out maybe 20, 50 or even 90 miles from the hill. It's a bit spesh doing that - I never knew a pilot begrudge the long hitch home after a great xc.

7th Dec 2007, 19:44
Did my first, and only, hang gliding flight in Rio. Was a blast, but I like the engine option.

Ultralights have been the most fun I've ever had with clothes on including sky diving (guess it's that engine thing again.........)

7th Dec 2007, 19:52
I don't get the engine thing with gliders. For me it was always me sussing out the weather conditions and maxing out on the day - that's the real thrill, climbing out when everyone else has missed it.

7th Dec 2007, 19:56
P'raps we're being a bit too analytical.

Years later, when learning to fly powered craft, I used to reflect back to me paragliding days, and it did seem that, for me, it consisted of everything that was wrong; (I never got to 4000 feet, I used to feel scared to death and sick at 200 feet), crowded airspace, turbulent conditions, flying near hills, delicate undercarriage, stall speed close to your airspeed, lots of accident page reports, etc etc.

But boy oh boy, it does make you feel alive.:)

I reckon sitting on the couch, smoking 20 fags and watching the telly is probably more dangerous.

7th Dec 2007, 20:05

It's all moved on abit frm the old days too...:cool:

7th Dec 2007, 20:06
My first close-up encounter with hang-gliding was in the mid 1980s at the 'top' of a mountain in Switzerland (probably the Matterhorn top station). Several guys were 'stepping off' into space with several thousand feet of nothing below.
I reasoned that the size of the free-space available probably gave them a greater chance of recovery and finding lift, although it was hard for me (as a novice who had only previously seen hang-gliders launching from sloping sites) to come to terms with. I guess you could kill yourself with a much smaller 'fall'.
A couple of years later (mid to late 1980s), when crossing the Hardknott Pass in the Lake District (UK) I saw 'big birds' circling which turned-out to be humans suspended below 'hang-gliders' - but they were coming and going and not descending (which turned-out to be my first sight of powered paragliders).
Just like the first time I saw someone on a surfboard (jutting out from St Anne's Head into the shipping lane at Milford Haven - propelled by a stiff offshore westerly wind - there were white-tops once he got out of the lee of the headland and we were struggling to keep our hats on). We had to leave before he managed to make any progress back towards the shore . . . He must have been one of the first surfboarders in Britain - very early 1970s. It looked like very hard work for him (he kept falling, but when he went it was very fast!).

7th Dec 2007, 20:24
Wow - cool video parap. , never seen them loop like that- followed by a cool landing on the beach :)did you see the guy nearly fall into his canopy though, followed by a bit of a canopy colapse (5:15 into the film).

Surfings a good idea, its like flying when your on a good'en-you can still get hurt though:}as my false teeth will testify.:)

7th Dec 2007, 21:16
I quite liked windsurfing for a few years - surfing with a pole to hang on to:} Although it's definitely the aquatic equivalent of hang gliding, all that screwing stuff together for hours on end. Hangom, I'll see if I can find a mildly amusing treatise on the differences between hang gliding & paragliding.

7th Dec 2007, 21:29
Big C&P - no apols...

"Floppy pilots are a bunch of overdressed, overpaid, middle-management, professional type wallahs who fly bits of colourful rag and string and seem happy with a straight-line depreciation-to-zero in three years. Their crappy 10:1 (alleged) max. glide bags of washing are prone to tucking in any decent turbulence, going backwards in any decent wind, snapping lines in any decent G-loading and have an occasional habit of Christmas wrapping their owners (just when things ought to get interesting!) and depositing them with a crump onto the ground - that they should never have left in the first place.

They never ever turn but just bob about exactly in front of take-off, exhibiting various degrees of panic. You can always tell when a floppy pilot is scared by how far his legs are apart and by how often he looks up at the canopy. They must all have bad necks because they never ever look round where are going and always look very surprised when they suddenly find themselves face to face with a real glider. In thermals they just bang on the brakes and go up like stink until they get their nerve back - usually the moment they realise they are not going to have some catastrophic collapse - and then start to weave about and up and down until, at about two grand, they start circling. And no matter how many people are coring the thermal, they will always turn the wrong way. Everybody decides for safety's sake to find another thermal, leaving the contra-rotating floppy alone, skying out and thinking he has just burnt off the area's finest stiffies. If only he knew!

If ever you find a thermal first, you will notice that just when you have picked the most amazingly correct time to turn and achieved the most aerodynamic angle of bank, coupled with the correct degree of pitch and mega-tuned amount of VBS just when the vario is a-singing and you are going to go a long way and the cloud street is 100 miles long and it is going to get better and just when you are absolutely committed to the mother of all turns. What do you see appearing from over your inside leading edge, legs wide apart, eyes firmly fixed upwards, mobile phone in one hand, flying manual in the other? Joe Floppy!

And why, oh why, do floppies always converge on your thermal exactly half a turn behind you? It's not as if they don't know what you're going to do.
You've spent all day sharking around the sky searching for space between them and looking for some lift. You hit a really nice thermal, and what do you do? Fly straight through it? I don't think so! So why, when to turn is to stay in and go up, (and presumably it's the same for floppies) are they amazed that we are less than enamoured with them for parking up exactly where we want to turn?

Their radio transmissions are unbelievable. A typical conversation heard on the hill would go like:

'OK this is Tango Wildebeast Apple Tango, to the person holding down their PTT nobody can hear anybody on the radios so will you please stop transmitting thank you. Over and out.' In short they are akin to the mosquitoes of the flying world, a swarming, retrograde step back to a time before real wings, when invertebrate floppiness was in fashion. Mossies who, because of their small brains and lack of awareness, cannot and dare not contemplate the evolutionary leap to avamoetmega 15:1 turbulence-muncheraluminocarbotopless high-tech hang gliding!

"Stiffy pilots are a bunch of scruffily dressed, onosyllabic real-alers who fly rusting, dented Heath-Robinson affairs prone to inverting, folding and just plain breaking due to neglect or too many home-made repairs. Their gliders are composed of scaffolding poles held together with four-inch nails, ring pulls, jumbo paper clips and 100-amp fuse wire, all covered with a tarpaulin liberally stained by most bodily fluids known to man. Not only that, they measure distances in miles and their archaic instruments usually look like brown bakelite tellies.

Stiffy pilots are rude and sometimes aggressive, and not just when misunderstood. Their clothes come from Oxfam, they stink and smoke roll-ups. They are all old and fat, have wives and loads of children. They are on the dole and on the scrounge or they are buildersS or something to do with computers (probably knocked-off ones).

They spend hours carrying heavy loads up hills like pack mules, hours straightening bits of metal and shoving them randomly into various orifices, and hours sitting around watching and pointing at the hordes of beautiful paragliders flying around. Then they fly to the bottom, crash, spend hours packing the bits away, shove the thing on top of some ancient transit or Peugeot 405 and drive down to the nearest pub to spend hours wasting good beer, talking about the price of aluminium and complaining about all the paradanglers that got in their way and stopped them coring that 5-up that would have got them to the coast. Half of them then say that their lasses could fly better than any floppy pilot about; the other half say that if their lasses took up flying floppies they would divorce them. At this point any discord is defused by someone saying, 'Well, our lass can fly better than you anyway', and everyone agrees.

When they do fly they race about, flying in front of paragliders and causing deflations and flying at them to get them out of their way. When it's scratchy they always swoop in on every paraglider that ever finds a thermal, spiralling upwards at some ridiculous angle. They never look where are going and, worse still, never indicate which way they are going to turn, especially when banked over. Invariably they nearly hit you when you join their thermal.

Stiffy pilots' radio etiquette is abysmal - no call signs, no polite requests, no signing off and they even swear on air.

In short they are akin to the wart-hogs of the Serengeti - singularly lacking in taste, breeding, social etiquette and control of bodily functions who, because of their inwardly spiralling gene pool and evolutionary challenged minds, cannot and never will understand the sublime serenity of hygienic Japaustriodiagoribbed, cross-braced, 10:1, Bolli-Papesque, etc, etcS high-tech para-flying!

7th Dec 2007, 21:50
Oooooh I've been waiting for this thread ever since I joined proon.

Where to start?

Hang-gliding is the most amazing thing that can be legally achieved with your clothes on.

I could bore you to death with exploits of daring do from almost 20 years of free flight.
If you want the full story please feel free to pm me otherwise, I can only agree with (most) of what already has been said.

Except, of course, that us stiffies have far more fun than floppies. Parapunter will no doubt disagree.

Go to a registerd school. There are several available in the UK including AIRWAYS Air Park based at Darley Moore airfield in Derbyshire. http://http://www.airways-airsports.com/airpark
If you fancy a holiday then Wallaby Ranch in Florida is excellent but a bit pricey. However you do not have to worry about the weather as they fly everyday barring hurricanes. http://http://www.wallaby.com/

(Mods I have no financial link with any of the above.)

All sports have risk. Hang-gliding I have been told by an insurer is akin to motorcycling and horse riding as far as risk of injury is concerned.

Yes I broke bones when I was "a bit late on the round out" one sunny day but god I miss it!
It takes commitment and tenacity to learn and a lot of frustration (in the uk) with the weather but those days either ridge soaring in strong dynmic lift racing along with your fellow stiffies, slaloming around Parapunter and his floppie mates or tucked into a 60 degree bank coreing a booming thermal up to cloudbase, landing in front of the pub (Cat and Fiddle near Buxton in my case) are as close as I ever got to a religeous experience.

see here http://http://www.pprune.org/forums/...30#post2111630 post #79 for the photo.

7th Dec 2007, 21:54
I honestly agree that HG is more rewarding than pg. Just wasnt for me - dislocated my shoulder on day one running tethers, so that was the end of that:{

7th Dec 2007, 22:09
PP, Brilliant! :ok:
Not seen that for ages. Made I laaarrrff it did! :D

Loose rivets
7th Dec 2007, 22:37
Funny posts :ok:

Did anyone see the documentary about some folk oop north that built the replica of Leonardo da Vinci's...well, hang glider.

The hanger looked like a Rivet's heaven, old bits of this 'n that everywhere. Anyway, they built it with tremendous care to use only Leo's design.

A very attractive young test pilot appeared to do the flying, and I think insisted on just enough change to carry her safely. Anyway, the darn thing flew quite well tethered, and then they fitted some strings to distort the wing enough to affect a roll. (affect when viewed as the end result. Does that sound right?) Anyway, this gave some roll where her swing would not.

I have to say that I've never really appreciated Leonado's work enough. A British heart surgeon waxed lyrical about his drawings of the eddy-currents in the heart. It seems that we haven't known for long the part these play in the closing of the valves, and the old boy knew 100 years before Christopher Wren et al were still trying to figure out what the heart did. But, I still don't think the helicopter would have worked.

One of my F/Os in the 'old days' of the DC3, used to be an auto-gyro check-captain. :hmm: He sat above and behind the candidate. To effect an engine failure, he would pull the spark plug lead off!

7th Dec 2007, 23:16
That very attractive young test pilot would be Judy Leden. I flew with her recently on a tandem refresher hang-glider flight. She and her husband Chris run the aforementioned AIRWAYS Airsports at Darley Moore.

More here...http://http://www.judyleden.com/

7th Dec 2007, 23:29
Astral, that would be an Advance Oh-my-god 2?
LMAO - Yes that would be the one... Love the wing. It's sane and stable, and exhibits a good recovery from asymmetric collapses.

Loved your descriptions of Floppies & Stiffies... Some element of truth in that. :)

I would suggest that any pilot should try and at least get a couple of dual flights with a floppy wing.. It makes you more aware of the air around you.. Compared to standard fixed wing gliding. It's so nice to be able to find the small thermals and keep in them. Of course you get the occasional collapse as you enter some of them, that's no problem.

Paragliding to me has been an addition, rather than a replacement of other methods of flight. Like others have said. It is safe if you approach it in a professional way. Obviously it does attract the adrenalin junkies, and the macho element. Most of them don't stick around for long. But the sport does need them to some extent to finance the schools. I know that my last comments might be a little contentious. But I cannot find a way around saying things in another way... The majority of pilots I have met, are passionate about the sport, and safety conscious.

Turin - Judy Leden... She has done one hell of a lot for the sport. I admire her achievements.. http://www.judyleden.com/

I wonder what the OP makes of all of this?


B Fraser
8th Dec 2007, 00:46
I've flown stiffies including a Moyes Lightspeed. Floppies are my favourites include Edels, Gins, Swings and various Novas. My trusty old X-Act DHV2 has managed a climb rate of 950 feet per minute in the UK which was rather jolly. A memorable moment was teaching a stude about landing into wind to minimise groundspeed and he had the decency to listen quietly and nod sagely. I found out later over lunch that he flew Concorde :\.

If you want as much fun as it is possible to have with your clothes on, learn with a registered school and be safe. The BHPA on the other hand are a waste of money IMHO. I listened to one of their senior people boasting that "thanks to them", paraglider pilots do not have to carry transponders.

yeah, right :*

8th Dec 2007, 02:06
The former hang-glider pilots that join our glider clubs are generally pretty good pilots. But the common theme is that they moved into gliders because hang gliders are a lot more physical, and more of a youngster's game.


B Fraser
8th Dec 2007, 09:26
Most thermals have multiple cores that twist around each other. A hangie or paraglider pilot will climb in a single core and appreciate the boundary conditions between them whereas a glider pilot will use the the whole thermal. Situational and spatial awareness gained on a busy hillside combined with a well tuned sense of perspective will help in the conversion to fixed wing gliding.

Ballooning is great fun too !!!!! :D

8th Dec 2007, 11:24

reckon them reserve chutes are worth their weight in gold:)

8th Dec 2007, 16:49
This one's better. Packed full of famous last words. The lesson? When it goes wrong, DO NOT OVERREACT!!


Krystal n chips
8th Dec 2007, 17:29
Right, lets bring some perspective to this thread !.

Hang / Para gliding.....what do you get out of it ? You get to freeze your a£$e off even on a hot day, nowhere to stack your sarnies / drinks, stuff yourself into a glorified sleeping bag, hang on a bit of wire / straps in the hope of staying airborne / alive and if you have a structural or u/c failure.....it feckin hurts !!!!......I would imagine.

Much better one suggests to stick with the mantra below ;):E

"Get your ass into glass"....preferably 17m :ok:

8th Dec 2007, 17:58
What's the beeping noise in that last video. A beeping noise that is getting quicker is never ever good news. If I hear increasingly urgent beeps it usually means I'm about to turn a large yacht into a land base tourist attraction. Even the car beeps.

8th Dec 2007, 18:45
It's the vario Mr. Foss. It beeps for rate of climb and descent. The more urgent the beep, the stronger the lift etc. Happiness is a set of new batteries.

8th Dec 2007, 19:58
True bill Para. :eek:

8th Dec 2007, 20:42
Used to fly hang gliders many years ago (still got one in my garage) but eventually gave it up because family's got in the way.

I was 60 miles from my nearest site, which only took a NW wind, and it would be a whole day away with no guarantee that I would fly. The weather might have been good at home and the forecast right but getting to the site was quite often a different matter. Many a day I have spent on a hill waiting for the wind to pick up or come from the right direction. You can only afford so many days of that.

When the weather was right though it was a different story. You just can't beat taking off using your own power and a couple of minutes later touching the clouds. You can't beat taking off and going cross country not knowing where you will end up and when you eventually do land, knowing that you got there using your own effort and skill. Then at the end of the day with your mates, re-living the flight and finding that they are all just as excited as you.

Powered flying is great but it doesn't compare with hang gliding for the buzz. Of course the hazards are greater ( or maybe the outcome potentially more severe) and the two instructors who taught me were both killed hang gliding. They were killed though by breaking the rules. If you follow them you are just as safe as most sports.

People may think that it is just a large kite but here are some of the world records achieved( for basic hang gliders):

Furthest distance: 700.6 km
Gain of height : 4 343 m

Not bad really.

Real pilots fly hang gliders ;)

9th Dec 2007, 02:30
There is nothing like standing on take off on a Swiss mountainside, giving a brief to the group of students, as your fellow guide comes whistling past in a brand new icaro topless glider. "Just watch this" I said, we were making a film so I knew he would do something entertaining.............. Right enough, straight into a dive..........push up for the loop...........just get inverted...........run out of airspeed..........oooopppss........BANG.... glider collapses inverted...........see his arms flailing desperately trying to get to reserve as he disappears below tree line. "Wow" said one "did he mean to do that?"

Luckily I found him lying in the wreckage of the glider, unscathed bar a broken wrist and a twig up his nose............. The trees had broken his fall, interestingly enough, he had managed to throw his chute right at the last minute- still perfectly folded as it hadnt opened:D

9th Dec 2007, 08:23
Tee hee! I'm fairly certain that I'm wheeled out every christmas on German 'you've been framed' too! Bloody tourists with their video cameras.

9th Dec 2007, 11:49
Right, lets bring some perspective to this thread !.
Hang / Para gliding.....what do you get out of it ? You get to freeze your a£$e off even on a hot day, nowhere to stack your sarnies / drinks, stuff yourself into a glorified sleeping bag, hang on a bit of wire / straps in the hope of staying airborne / alive and if you have a structural or u/c failure.....it feckin hurts !!!!......I would imagine.
Much better one suggests to stick with the mantra below
"Get your ass into glass"....preferably 17m
I realise K & C has got tongue mashed firmly into cheek, but I just had to bite.
The only time you get cold is when your waiting to t/o. The rest of the time you're swetting like the proverbial swine. :eek:
Sarnies, drinks etc stuffed into harness side pocket already to scoff when you land. If you are eating while flying you're just not trying hard enough- concentrate.
Drinks can be sipped through a 'Platypus' type device (Squashy bag with tube attached).
If my sleeping bag was as comfortable as my harness I'd never have a lost minutes sleep camping. They are snug and very warm.
The "bit of wire" would be BS tested webbing and for most of us, hooked through two karabiners and double hang straps.
There is no hope involved in HG/PG. It's all pure skill.:ok::p
From my experince in aviation, primary structural failure in most a/c is fatal unless you have a backup parachute, which we HG/PG chaps all carry.
As for u/c failure... who needs it.
See here...

Jump Complete
9th Dec 2007, 12:17
Great replies! Some of them have given me food for thought, but even more keen to try it now. Still keener on the idea of hand-gliding rather than para gliding. I think partly because coming from a 'real' aircraft (no offence intended) background, I see hang gliders as an aircraft more than a ram air canapy. That video of the canapy collaspe didn't exactly inspire confidence either! (Was the Korean one due to a collision or did they collide due to the collaspe?) Regarding keeping safe, well I know that experience is no guarantee , but I wouldn't consider trying anything without a proper course and I think 2 1/2 thousand hours of flying has developed a certain survival and airmanship instinct so hopefully I will be able to keep myself out of trouble!
Another thought occurs.. Presumably hang and para gliders come under 'sporting equipment' with the airlines. How do Ryanair / Queasyjet view and charge for them?

Krystal n chips
9th Dec 2007, 13:28
Mr Turin,

Thank you sir, for confirming my long held suspicions about your fraternity. As I am capable of multi-tasking and have a distinct preference for doing so in a semi-reclined position, whilst enjoying the view ( can you trim one of those wire and braces contraptions to fly straight and level then ? :E ) I can only suggest you make the quantum leap and opt for the more civilsed form of aviation at some point soon.

I hope my suggestion will pre-empt the one from the medical world therefore ;):E

I am aware of catastrophic failure however, hence the reason I always ensure my chute is firmly attached to me in the "unlikely event" of me parting company in a hurry with a glider....:p


9th Dec 2007, 14:29
The Korean thing Mr JC was an American pilot Joe Parr falling out of a strong thermal and under then overreacting to the subsequent collapse. He ends up with a cravat (wing tip tucked into the lines) which is as bad as it gets.
Point being, if he'd reacted appropriately, he'd have been ok. Goes to show, you can't hit the sky - only the edges. Stay away from the edges.

There is a lot of negative talk about pg collapses, but if you reason it through, it's actually a desirable characterstic gven the overall design of the machine. Really:=

Go with HG & I hope you enjoy your ten days of pushing a clubman up hills.:p followed by years of rigging and de-rigging:ugh::}

9th Dec 2007, 15:28
There is a lot of negative talk about pg collapses, but if you reason it through, it's actually a desirable characterstic gven the overall design of the machine. Really:=
I tend to agree with you. Some wings are better than others, when you have to pump them out. It isn't a big deal, as long as you take the right actions quick enough. In fact it should be instinctive.
Go with HG & I hope you enjoy your ten days of pushing a clubman up hills.:p followed by years of rigging and de-rigging
Yup .... The joys of hang gliding... :E


9th Dec 2007, 22:12
I've been flying Hang Gliders since I was 16 and for me it's the most rewarding flying I can find. Thatís compared to other forms of aviation such as; Gliding, Piston, Turboprop, Microlight aircraft and military fast Jet. As with Paragliding, Hang Gliding is one of the purest forms of aviation there is and quite safe if you train with a good school and have a dash of common sense. You can make it complicated by having all the latest Vario/GPS/Moving map flight instrument and worry about every little point on glide angle, or you can just rig it and fly, with no noise save the air and the birds. :O

The highest points for me are too many to name, 14,300ft thermals in central Spain (ever so slightly Hypoxic!), blasting across goal lines during competitions with your mates, after flying for 4 hours+ and racing across 150km+ tasks, or speed gliding down a Spanish mountain at 6ft and 60kts at dawn.:ok:

Be warned though, it requires a fair amount of commitment when you start, but the rewards are many and varied. I have now been at it for 20 years and have over 2000hrs, I have competed at international level (The best fun with your clothes on, period!) and I still find new challenges every time I fly. You can push yourself as much or as little as you want and that is one of the great things, it's all about flying for YOU, no-one else.

PM me if you want more info.