Victor/Canberra collision near Marham, 1968.

[Petasus]

Hello all.
First post obviously, with a request for some help with research:

XH646 Victor B2 collided with a Canberra on the night of 19 August 1968 near the village of Holt in Norfolk. Both crews were killed outright. My uncle was the P2 of the Victor and I would like to be able to learn more about that fateful night.

I have 'Googled' and gleaned some information, as yet I haven't chased any RAF sources, although this could be the next step.

I believe the Victor was from Marham and the Canberra from Bruggen, the Victor crew were on a departure climb out from Marham during atrocious weather. A radio call from XH646 was heard, "Passing 3,500 ft", this was the last received transmission.

I would be indebted to any PPruners who can help me out by correcting the above, sharing experience, etc or just where to look next.

Thanks in advance.

Petasus

[Jackonicko]

North Norfolk News:

Holt Air Crash, August 19. Two RAF planes collided over Holt. Seven airmen were killed.

Holt has never forgotten it. A raging electric storm, a terrifying explosion and burning wreckage raining down on rooftops and gardens. For 14,500 feet above north Norfolk two RAF jets a Victor aircraft and a Canberra had collided and exploded sending debris crashing to earth for miles around. Thirty years after the August 19, 1968 disaster in which Holt was miraculously spared from destruction a memorial service to remember seven airmen who died was held.

"I am at 13,500 feet and climbing," were the last words from the crew of Victor XH646 before radio contact was lost as the Marham-based plane climbed away from its station on a training exercise. It collided with a Canberra from RAF Bruggen in Germany. Both crews died.

Neither plane was carrying missiles, nuclear or conventional. PC Ian Jarvis, now retired, of Thompson Avenue, had only moved to Holt that weekend and had not taken up duty. "I made the first 999 call," he said. "It was quite incredible. When I got down Kelling Road the burning front cockpit of a Victor was there."

Today there are no physical scars from the terrible night 30 years ago. But in the pine woods of Holt Country Park a deformed pine tree bears testimony to where a body crashed to earth on a young tree thirty years ago.

[Jackonicko]

and from here on PPRuNe

19 Aug 68
XH646
Victor
K1 A
214 Sqn
Kelling Heath Norfolk
4

Whilst flying in extremely poor weather conditions which rendered the radar cover inadequate, the Victor was in collision with a Canberra. The crews of both aircraft were killed. Squadron Leader Doyle had assumed his responsibilities as a flight commander on 214 Squadron on the morning of his death.

Squadron Leader Michael Thomas DOYLE Navigator
Flight Lieutenant William Anthony GALLIENE Captain
Flight Lieutenant Kenneth John PEACOCK Navigator
Flight Lieutenant Roger Stanley MORTON Co Pilot

[henry crun]

The Broken Wings entries say that WT325 belonged to 213 Sqn, and the collision occurred while it was leaving Wainfleet ranges.

[MAINJAFAD]

Heard a story about this accident from an ex Radar Type 82 fitter who was working at Watton at the time. Both aircraft were under the control of Eastern Radar at the time of collision. As stated controllers at Watton lost radar contact on both aircraft due to heavy rain clutter on their scopes. One result of the accident was the fitting of a circular polariser on the transmitter aerial of the Radar Type 82 to reduce the effects of rain clutter.

[Downwind.Maddl-Land]

Yes it was probably deemed "too expensive" to fit CP right up to that moment.

Seems we learn nothing over the years........

[MAINJAFAD]

The radar at Watton was not designed for Air Traffic Control when it was built, but as a Tactical Control Radar for 24 Air Defence Missile Wing's Bloodhound Mk 1 Squadrons at Marham, Watton and Rattlesden. The radar's design was started for the Army AA Command and the RAF got it as part of the transfer of SAGW (SAM) to Air Ministry control in 1952/3. The radar's performance against ECM was rubbish and its range of 150 miles made it not very useful for fighter control, which was a pity as it was the first volumetric radar in the UK and it had a state of the art data handing system. It was only used with Bloodhound from 1958 to Jan 1963, when RAF SAM command and control was passed directly to the Master Radar Staions at Pattrington and Bawdsey. After that, the three production 82's (Watton, North Luffeham and Lindholme) were sightly modified and six months later they were up and running as ATCRU's.

[Rigex]

WT 325 was a 213 Sqdn Canberra B(I)6.

I was on the line that night and seem to remember that it was one of (I think) 4 aircraft involved in a bombing competition (possibly Salmond Trophy). Bombs would have been 2 x 2 25 pounders on the wing pylons.

All of the above is subject to my fading memory, and correction from anyone with a better recall...is it really almost 40 years ago?

[Pontius Navigator]

I was duty operations controller at Waddo at the time. I was in bed, in the duty bunk at the mess, listening to the radio when I heard the announcement of an air crash.

I rang the duty ops officer as we had aircraft up and he checked our jets and at the same time called 1 Gp Ops who were in the dark too.

They called 3 Gp who then found out it was a Marham Victor.

I don't know about the timings at the Watton end but the BBC was the first we knew at the Ops end.

I may have some primary data. I will check Monday.

[FantomZorbin]

I seem to remember that the AAIB indicated that point of impact was slightly forward and below the crew hatch of the Victor, the Canberra being in a climb at the time.
Trouble is time plays havoc with the memory :(

[robcur]

I believe that the Victor was on frequency with Midland Radar, a T82 ATC Radar Unit sighted at North Luffenham. Amongst other taskings, Midland Radar was responsible for providing climb out and recovery services to a number of airfields including Marham. The controller at Midland, although in RT contact, was never able to identify the Victor on its climbout due to the heavy weather returns on the T82 display and thus was unable to provide any anti-collision service. I understand that the Canberra had called Eastern Radar as it departed one of the Wash weapons ranges for return to Germany. The Eastern Radar controller too could not identify his aircraft due to the heavy weather returns from the same storm. Nor was SSR much help in those days. The returns on a T82 radar were basic slashes which were frequently indecypherable.

[ORAC]

I believe that the Victor was on frequency with Midland Radar, a T82 ATC Radar Unit sighted at North Luffenham. In the overhead no doubt....

[Pontius Navigator]

It is unlikely that the Victor was in the Midland overhead as it was climbing out NE from Marham and at a relatively low level.

IIRC there weather was 100% DS with lots of extremely load bangs near Waddo as well.

[ORAC]

Sigh..... you had to be there....... those were the days you used to be able to find "The Midland Radar Overhead Starts here" stickers in strange places all round the world.

[chevvron]

Including MPA.
But how come the Midland overhead seemed much bigger than Lindholme? It was only about 20 miles there, although did hear a Bealine Trident wingeing one day asking exactly where the radar was situated and sounding most unhappy about the 'standard' phrase 'entering my overhead... etc'

[DICK DOLEMAN]

I was a controller at Midland Radar at the time of this accident. The Victor was receiving a service from Midland Radar as it climbed out of Marham. The weather clutter on the radar was very severe due to very large active Cbs covering the whole of East Anglia. The Type 82 radar did not have any form of weather suppression.

The controller concerned did his best to assist the Victor by vectoring the aircraft between a very small gap between 2 large cells but due to the severity and proximity of the weather clutter was not able to offer any anti collision advice. The Canberra was climbing out of Wainfleet range under the control of Eastern Radar as it climbed on an easterly heading through the weather clutter on its return to Germany.

This accident would not have occurred with todays processed radars and the sophistication of SSR over the basic IFF then used. A very tragic accident.

[Pontius Navigator]

DD, with Cb of that nature and density it is doubtful if a modern radar at Midland would have done any better. What a modern system would do it to allow multiple feeds so that you got a composite picture.

It was one reason why the each main bomber base had a standard instrument departure and recovery lanes which pre-dated SIDS and STARS be a few decades.

[Gainesy]

vectoring the aircraft between a very small gap between 2 large cells

I wonder if the Eastern controller was trying to get the Canberra to thread the same gap?

[DICK DOLEMAN]

As far as I can remember, the Canberra had 'free called' Eastern Radar on climb-out from Wainfleet and was already in the weather clutter and so was never seen on radar by the controller. The collision would have been close to 90 degree crossing as the Victor was on a northerly heading.

[Gainesy]

It's that kind of 1 in a million chance that makes you think.

Tragic.

[DICK DOLEMAN]

You are absolutely right about the chances. However, in my same tour at Midland Radar we had another mid-air collision. A Varsity on a 'navex' with student navigators and some air cadets on board.

As I recall, the Varsity was transiting noth bound under airway Blue 1 somewhere in the vicinity of RAF Lindholme and was under a limited service due to the base of cover. I believe the Varsity was flying just on top of cloud cover. It was hit by a light aircraft climbing through the cloud (not working Midland Radar). The pilot of the light aircraft was killed ( I think an Army Major). Subsequent to the collision, I think the Captain of the Varsity claimed to have fallen out of the aircraft supervising the bail out of the crew. Sadly, an air cadet bailed out and then died after falling out of his parachute.

The Varsity was landed by the Co-pilot assisted by a student navigator in a field but hit a solitary tree ..I believe with no further fatalities.

This and the previous Victor/Canberra accident rather dented my belief in a mathematical model presented by a Flt Lt Bob Addreley while I was a student on the Joint Area Course at RAF Sopley (Yes, I am a knackered Old **** !). Bob's theory was that ' random track selection' was the best method of reducing the chance of a mid-air collision. Please bear in mind that at the time of his 'model' most airways were only 10 miles wide and military flying generated a huge amount of traffic.

[Gainesy]

Dick,
I think the Varsity was in transit to/from Lindholme to/from the Donna Nook range. A few years earlier as a cadet, I used to cadge flights with them and BCBS's Hastings. Not many 13yr olds can claim to have aimed and dropped live bombs, albeit 25lbers, I wonder what the present-day PC Fun Police would make of that?
Sorry, thread drift.

[argyle]

I was on 214 at the time of the accident and the Victor was from the TTF (Tanker Training Force). This was a seperate unit at Marham.

214 only had one mark 1A and that was 667.

The squadron was different to 55 and 57 in that it had eight Mk.1's and one 1A. The other two squadrons had the marks the other way around.

[Wader2]

the Varsity was transiting noth bound under airway Blue 1 somewhere in the vicinity of RAF Lindholme and was under a limited service due to the base of cover.

Sadly, an air cadet bailed out and then died after falling out of his parachute.

Thread drift but I believe this led to the development of a new parachute harness with additional side straps as well as the conventional crotch and shoulder straps. As that type of harness could only be fitted by SE workers it would be too easy to get a bad fit.

[Gainesy]

A fellow Pruner, who wishes to preserve his/her anonimity has asked me to post the following (boldface):

The Wainfleet Range Log Book contains a simple entry:
2132Z Range closed. Message from Preston Centre SAR Ops.
There is no hint that an aircraft departing the range had been involved.

On the parachute harness (for use with clip-on chest para. pack) the squippers at Lindholme were always painstakingly meticulous in fitting it to a diminutive me in 1962-63. They never hinted at it, but a Space cadet pitching up at little or no notice, first thing in the morning must have been a right Royal pain in the arris for them.:)

[Petasus]

Thank you to you all those PPruners who have added to my knowledge of that tragic day. Also good to know that a few memories have been stirred and a bit of discussion started.

If anyone has anymore info please PM me, I might not be able to get back to you quick smart but I will appreciate any help at all.

So, fly safe. Always.

Petasus.

[Bumble B]

I am not a techy so cant comment on the blips but I was a young civvy at the time and saw the tragic results.

My pal and I were travelling towards Holt in his ancient Morris Minor on the night of the incident. We were about 5 miles from Holt after Cowleys's finest had just managed to get us up one of the highest and steepest hills in Norfolk (about 300ft !) in second gear. Once at the top, we turned Westward into a dark and dismal night, even at this early hour of the night,with constant rain and drizzle.

Suddenly, the whole landscape was lit as daylight in a steady bright sodium type light such that we could clearly see each others puzzled faces. We stopped the car and got out and discussed what it could be. Innocently and foolishly, we thought it might be a nuclear first strike or an accidental explosion and if we would be able to see the mushroom cloud above the cloud base!! It should be remembered this was a short while after the Cuban Crisis and we were still deep into the Cold War. Additionally, just beyond Holt lay the USAF SAC base at Sculthorpe, the Bloodhound missile base of West Raynham and a bit further on RAF Marham. Behind us lay RAF Coltishall.

This 'daylight' lasted, to us, a very long time and there was an eerie silence to go with it until suddenly a lone bright flare like light spiralled down through the highlighted cloud base. Then was a gradual localised increase in the light over the Holt area, accompanied by an ever increasing roaring that reached a crescendo as a very bright flaming mass,accompanied by smaller but equally bright objects, broke through the cloud base and a few seconds later reverted the area back to blackness and silence.

We thought that because of the size of the 'asteroid' type fire, it may have been an airliner and we drove on towards Holt until we reached the outskirts of the town at a hamlet called High Kelling. Here we could see many pieces of smouldering wreckage and as mad as it seemed now, we picked up some with ref numbers on them and took them through the far side of Holt to the local small Police Station ! (We had left some 'cylinders' that were laying around as they looked menacing - anyway they didn't have ref numbers on that we could see. ) The station desk was being manned by one poor PC who must have thought WWW3 had started on his shift as the phone was going crazy and we were not the first to turn the station into Steptoe's backyard. Despite the mayhem all around him, he very politely declined our offer to bring him more wreckage in and advised all that we should leave all where it lay, go home and only report any casualties along the way.

It was amazing that as far as I am aware no one on the ground was seriously hurt but the whole area was shocked at the scale of the loss of life. Norfolk people used to have, and I think still have for the most part, a deep appreciation of the service personell stationed around us. Sadly with the loss most of the bases; Coltishall being the latest, it is becoming only a distant memory for most of us.

[colinwwood]

My understanding of the events on that night is; the Victor was climbing out of RAF Marham. The Canberra B(I)6 from No 213 Sqn, RAF Bruggen had been on a navigation exercise over the UK and had made a low-level bombing attack on a target in the Range at RAF Wainfleet. It was climbing on track (probably at about 3,000fpm) to return to base. Both aircraft were on different radio frequncies and thus unaware of each other.
I knew two pilots of both aircraft personally - Bill Gallienne in the Victor and Jack Slabber (a South African) in the Canberra.
I had been a pilot on No 213 Sqn for 3 years and had been posted back to the UK (to RAE Llanbedr) some 8 months earlier.

[Mandator]

How strange that this thread should have popped up again today. Had a phone call this morning from a friend who lives near Holt. He remarked that one of his mates was walking dogs in woods near Holt on Sunday and the dogs unearthed some scraps of aluminium including a small access panel. The part number marked on the panel started with the letters EEP. 'English Electric Preston', from the Canberra?

[paper-tiger]

Hi Petasus
Is the uncle you are enquiring about as the P2 on this flight Roger Stanley Morton? If so then we have a relative in common - he was my favourite cousin. I was told he was flying as Co-pilot on this flight, being appraised for promotion. He is listed on a previous post as Flt Lt but I also believed he was still technically a Flying Officer (according to an RAF website)
I too have recently started to investigate what happened in 1968 and have realised that it will be the 40th Anniversary of the crash this August. If Roger was your uncle, is it allowed for me to make contact with you outside this forum and if so how?

[Top West 50]

I remember coming down to breakfast at Marham to find our batman confirming the terrible news of the night before. Roger Morton was a smashing chap and very popular on the Squadron (214) - he was particularly proud of his Mini Cooper S, as I remember.

[paper-tiger]

It was the 40th Anniversary of the crash today and I travelled to Holt and also the crematorium in Norwich to pay my respects to the airmen who died (one of whom was my cousin Roger Morton, as mentioned in a previous post)
It was very sad that it seemed that no-one, other than me, had chosen to mark this particular anniversary, despite my enquiries and prompting of the Town Council and the local newpaper over the last few weeks. RAF Marham had forgotten as well which was also sad.
I am not aware of any kind of memorial stone in the locality and, as it was raining heavily (but with no thunderstorms this time around!) it was impossible to get out and look for anything
A local reporter was also surprised that nothing official had been arranged and agreed to take some details and write a small piece in the local paper so that the pilots are remembered again, at least for a little while...

[Jackonicko]

Radio 4 reported the anniversary.

[paper-tiger]

That's interesting - I'll have to see if I can get a transcript of the piece from the BBC (unfortunately I didn't hear it as I was travelling around the Holt area)
Many thanks

[Heywood Djablowme]

Paper-Tiger,

It was mentioned on Radio 4's Day by Day programme. It looks at the items in the news 40 years ago. You can listen to it again on the net; just go to:

BBC - Radio 4 - 1968 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/1968/week23/?augt#18)

and select the correct day.

[BernieS]

I was an Air Cadet on annual camp at Marham when this happened.

I can still recall the light in the sky, and the sound of the explosion from the collision. None of us were sure what had happened, although the more "knowledgeable types" reckoned it was probably flares from the nearby range. However, the following morning, amongst all of the rumours, it became clear that something terrible had taken place. We were told that it was a "PR Canberra from Germany" that had collided with a fully fueled Victor on climb-out.

I vividly recall a couple of days later when they started bringing the wreckage into the airfield on low loaders - the smell is with me to this day, and is something that I hope never to experience again.

[paper-tiger]

I have been told today that a memorial service will be held on Sunday 24th, at Holt Church
I cannot afford another 40 quid in petrol to travel up there again, so if anyone is in the area and goes to this service please could they post a short report on this forum?
thanks

[Airborne Aircrew]

Paper Tiger:

I'm saying this publicly because, over the internet, it would be a tad too easy to take advantage of me. I would appreciate some tangible proof of your attendance but, if you do attend the memorial service I'll shell out the required fourty pounds. Fair?



Sorry, I was distracted by a planning issue and hit send while trying to do something else. Tomorrow morning, 23/8/08, I am leaving for a fairly remote area of north Wisconsin. I may or may not be in "internet range" during that time. I have entered a note in my calendar to check back on this when I return.

I've PMed you too

[paper-tiger]

Re Church Memorial Service Sunday 24 Aug
Thank you so much to those kind people who offered to pay for my petrol to go to Holt again
Unfortunately it just wasn't possible for me to travel up there again this weekend and so I didn't make the service
Hopefully I stirred a few memories in the North Norfolk area, with the newspaper article, about the events of a stormy night 40 years ago
It's a shame I didn't know about the Memorial Service earlier so I could have planned my visit differently but I am happy that I was there on Tuesday 19th

I only began looking into the details of the air crash last March (I really don't know why, but I suddenly needed to know about my cousin...) and I have gained a lot of useful information from this forum - thank you to everyone who has contributed

[Nige321]

Forty years ago this week, I was a 7 year old on holiday in a guest house in Sherringham with my parents. I can still recall room lighting up and my father looking out the window to see what had happened.

The next morning, we were invited into the guest house owners kitchen to view the small collection of wreckage he had acquired driving around the back of Sherringham - I recall a 6' long piece leaning against a wall.

Over the next few days walking along the stony beach at Sherringham, one could find everywhere tiny fragments of aluminium, obviously carried on the wind to the coast.

A tragic night...

N

[Nige321]

From North Norfolk News:

Link (http://www.northnorfolknews.co.uk/content/northnorfolknews/news/story.aspx?brand=NNNOnline&category=news&tBrand=NNNOnline&tCategory=News&itemid=NOED20%20Aug%202008%2014%3A21%3A58%3A697)

Tribute to Holt air crash victim

20 August 2008

The cousin of a brave RAF man who lost his life in a horrific mid-air collision over Holt has said she fears his memory could be lost.

Forty years ago seven servicemen were killed as a thunderstorm raged and two RAF aeroplanes crashed 12,000ft above the north Norfolk town.

The servicemen's families marked the deaths of their loved ones with memorial services at the time.

But with the 40-year milestone of the tragic accident passing two days ago with no formal recognition, worries that the men would be forgotten were voiced by Pam Matthews, who said she had hoped the RAF would mark the occasion.

In the absence of a formal ceremony Mrs Matthews made a pilgrimage from her home in Milton Keynes, with mother, Molly Richardson, in memory of their family member, Roger Stanley Morton, who was killed in the air disaster.

On the significant anniversary they went to see the site of the crash and visited St Faith's crematorium near Norwich where a small memorial stands.

Mrs Matthews, who was 17 when her cousin was killed, decided to start researching the crash earlier this year. She said: “I thought that somebody ought to mark it so he was not forgotten.”

Flying officer Morton was one of four men in a fated Victor tanker which set off from RAF Marham on a practice flight on August 19, 1968.

The plane hit a thunderstorm at the same time as a Canberra bomber from RAF Bruggen, in Germany.

What was subsequently put down to a “freak accident” caused by the weather and a radar system unable to cope meant the two planes hit each other in the sky.

The last words radioed from the crew of the Victor XH646 were “I am at 13,500 feet and climbing”.

The EDP reported the proximity of the crash to the town, as wing sections, ejector seats and other debris from the plane landed in people's gardens and houses and witnesses saw a fireball in the sky.

One dead airman came from South Africa with others from Essex, Hertfordshire and Cornwall.

Mrs Matthews said that the day had been worthwhile and it meant a lot just to be there.

[EA1]

I lived near the West Beckham Radar Station at this time even though I was quite young at the time I can remember watching the peices come down God its seemed a life time in slow motion........

[astronowt]

There are some days that are never forgotten. Dates, unfortunately are - which is perhaps why many (including me) didn't realise that the 40th anniversary of this tragic accident had arrived (and passed).
At the time I was a 10 year old boy, on vacation at my grandparents’ house in Vale road, High Kelling.
I remember that it was a stormy night, although I have no recollection of a violent thunder storm at the time. There may have been thunder and lightning, but not enough to make it memorable to me as violent. I was in the kitchen of my grandparents’ house, when I saw the flash and illumination of the clouds, and then a huge clap of what I thought was thunder which shook the whole house. I saw the bright glow in the cloud start to drift downwards, and called to my grandmother that there was a lightning ball. She came and looked, along with the rest of the family and told me it wasn't lightning. It was something else. The "ball" split into two, a large main one drifting right toward Holt/Leatheringset and a much smaller one drifting left off toward Bodham. Neither was coming down vertically, although the smaller one did come down at less of an angle than the larger . My father, an RAF armourer, said it was an aircraft. We went to the front door of the house and watched as the aircraft came down. As the main ball hit the ground (blocked by trees from our view) I think there was another explosion, but this may be memory playing tricks on me. It was at this time that a sound which I can only describe now as metallic hailstones started to grow from nothing . My father reacted immediately and pushed us very quickly back into the house, as the "hailstones" increased in intensity to a deluge. I am sure I heard glass breaking, though it wasn't in my grandparents’ house. Bits of metal were hitting the walls and roof, and to this day I wonder that nobody on the ground was injured -there must have been other people watching from outside the safety of their walls. The time-line from the flash to the metal hail must have been very short, yet I remember it as lasting ages.
We were not allowed out that night, and the following morning when I was allowed out (under strict orders not to stray, and in retrospect after my father has ensured that the area was safe for a ten year old) an RAF team were in position on the corner of Vale road/Cromer Road coordinating the initial response. My brothers and I were told not to touch anything, but to inform the RAF team. This was the excuse I needed to "stray". A large flap was in the trees in a field right on the corner of Cromer Road and Selbrigg Road (along with two horses, which I remember as Dapple Grey and Horse Chestnut - probably due to their colour). Another large piece of one of the aircraft (a wing section from the PR I believe) was in a tree right next to the track from Bernard Road through to Bridge Close. Smaller pieces of wreckage were everywhere. We were still digging up pieces of the aircraft years later in the garden.
Please allow for the fact that I was only ten at the time, and that it was a very long time ago. I cannot guarantee that the account is accurate - only that it is what I remember. .

[Wander00]

Just come across this thread- I was on 360 at Watton at the time but in Devon on leave - I remember the accident well, as when I heard on BBC radio of the collision I naturally wondered if it was a Canberra from Watton, as our SID climbout and Marham's coincided, but at different heights. Also Rog Morton and I had both been on 22 Gnat course at Valley together. I recall him as a really nice guy. RIP

[shobakker]

Apologies for the intrusion on this thread as a civvy...just thought that I'd add that despite being born many years after this incident, I was often told about that awful night and how the sky lit up by my Dad. I'm a little perturbed that there is an impression that this incident is being forgotten. The people of N. Norfolk, particularly around the aread of Holt/Kelling etc have long memories and the story often appears in the local papers due to one reason or another. I hope that any relatives reading this thread will take some comfort in the fact that the memory of this tragic incident has certainly not dimmed and those involved are still remembered in these parts...

[Wander00]

The grey cells are tingling. As I recall, the controller at Eastern was one of the new breed of direct entry Air Traffic Controllers (ie not hairy old ex-wartime aircrew). He was in his early 20s (same age as this then baby pilot) and was absolutely devastated by the accident, and I am not sure if he ever went back to controlling.

[Two-Tone-Blue]

Hello Dick, if you're still around PPRuNe. We have worked together in the past! Yes, we were part of that breed of "new entry" controllers - when I arrived at Eastern I only had 5 years under my belt, including 2 1/2 at Tengah [possibly the busiest RAF airfield at the time].

I arrived too late at Watton/Eastern Radar [early 1970] but the sad story was still current. As has been said, in various ways, the T82 radar didn't have the World's finest weather suppression, and the Midland Radar overhead was half-jokingly but seriously, an enormous obstacle to the provision of radar services. On a bad day, anyone trying to provide an Air Traffic Service from a T82 radar was up against the wall.

Add to that the complexity of ATC procedures in those days, where there were dozens of airfields with interlaced departure and recovery 'lanes' which vaguely offered some reassurance. It was a miracle, IMO, that such tragedies didn't happen more often.

Sadly, nothing is perfect.

[Ancient Sprog]

Hello Everyone. I understand that this site and forum is open not only to Aircrew, but also to ground crew ( presumably including Erks and Sprogs. I happened on this site by accident, read every post about this event, and decided to chip in my tuppenceworth. Many of the posts on this subject seem to be accurate and technically correct, although the odd one or two seem to be comprised of ill-qualified conjecture, supposition, and inaccuracies.

For what it's worth, in August 1968, I was a lowly SAC Mechanic ( Airframes ) attached to MEAS ( Mechanical Engineering Aircraft Squadron, at RAF Marham.
I had carried out work personally on the Victor 646, mostly light servicing, skin repairs, undercarriage work, PFCU installation and removal, and had the priviledge of being "Hangar Pilot" in my section.

Reporting for duty on the morning after the collision, ( we had all heard rumours and chit-chat about the event during the night ), we were aware of a mad mad scrambling of servicing personel, checking out Form 700s and servicing paperwork associated with 646. Quite understandable I suppose, but also astonishing in the way that there seemed to a scrambling all the way to the top to mke sure there was no "buck" coming our way.

Soon after shift commencement, several of us were issued with lunch packs, loaded on to a bus and shipped over to the Forest at Holt. I think I can recall a NAFFI wagon eventually turning up at the site we were at. We were split into teams of 3 or 4 and basically told to head off in various directions. Our mandate was to search out and identify anything that might be connected with the collision. We were NOT to touch anything, but had to call an NCO should we see anything.

We were there most of the day, and I remember sitting in one of a number of old brick structures, waiting for further instructions. In a room next to us lay several large polythene bags, in which we all "knew" were contents which we all did not want to look at.

We had been told that one of ours ( 646 was a tanker with either 214 Squadron or TTF, had been hit under its port wing by a climbing Canberra on a "Nightex" from Bruggen and that the cause had been due to an error by a controller at RAF North Luffenham. I don't say all this is fact, but this is what we were told.

I was 22 at the time. I'm now going on 69. I remember one or two of the Victor crew ( although not personally - Commissioned and Other Ranks and all that ). I will always remember the sadness and desperation we all felt, and the way in which we all conducted ourselves during the following days.
So so sad. I still recall every moment of that day, 46 years on.
I just wanted to share this with anyone who was interested. Thank you/

[Tankertrashnav]

Thanks for the input Ancient Sprog. I was on 214 from 1971-77, and the accident was still talked about by some of the older hands who had been around in 1968. It has just occurred to me, as far as I know the only other fatal accident which befell a Victor K1 was also a mid-air, the one which was struck by a Buccaneer during AAR training.

[5aday]

I was on the late shift in ATC as an assistant at the time of this accident. The aeroplane left Marham with I think four crew and I knew the Captain Flt Lt Ted Gallienne and the Co Pilot Flt.Lt Roger Morton quite well.
Roger might have been a Flying Officer but makes no difference. Before remustering to Aircrew, I spent about 30 or so trips - when ever there was a spare seat on the radar or on the 6th seat to give me some sort of idea about what I was letting myself in for. On a previous trip I had a 6th seat ride with Flt.Lt Gallienne which was an Astro Navex and I spent quite a time sitting in the door on my PSP .
The next trip (I think it was a TTF trip) the door blew open and they lost a few bits and peices such as Nav Bags.
On the evening in August, I was in Approach Control and talking to my counterpart in Midland along the lines of this aeroplane had just called for taxy and would be a handover in the next 5 to 10 mins and he in turn alerted his controller to get ready. We had Decca AR1 radar at Marham which had rainplates fitted but I don't know how ATC Marham fared compared with North Luffenham's or Watton's type 82 re the weather to the north and east. The aeroplane rolled from rw 24 , and turned right towards the NE and the last thing the controller in Marham (Flt Lt Dower) said was "Contact Midland on Stud xx" to which Flt Lt Gallienne acknowledged the instruction.
I was also duty driver in the tower and all the other guys were already in the Land Rover ready to go over to the Airmens Mess for Supper. As we passed 24 threshold and reached the Burmah Road the sky lit up bright orange and I had a rough idea what caused it so I turned the rover around and returned to the tower, simultaneously contacting Crash 1, 5, and 6 (also en route to supper)to return to their section. The local controller in ATC also then came on the Pye radio and gave similar instructions to mine.
When I got back into Approach Control I reminded Flt.Lt. Dower, who was extremely busy fielding questions on our switchboard, to ask Ground Radio to change the MARS (voice) tapes and impound the active tapes but I think J/T called Geoff had it all sorted.
I cannot remember if all the fire section went to Holt or not, but it meant Marham was no longer active with no fire cover. I remember fielding questions from the Norfolk Fire services but in all honesty, initially we were totally in the dark about the incident until it became clearer that Eastern had also lost a Canberra which was climbing out of Wainfleet. I think the Canberra had three crew.
One thing the 'on duty' controller told me to do was ring my home and tell my parents I was not involved as the Co Pilot and me shared the same surname.
(sometimes our mail used to get mixed up if there was no rank on the envelope)
The whole station was totally stunned and recall a lot of people were immediately sent to Holt from both Marham and West Raynham.
Those are my recollections of that night.
I'm not sure blame was apportioned to the controllers on duty that night but it all seems so long ago now.
I left Marham shortly after, and was posted to AE and AES Topcliffe.

[Coltishall. loved it]

Amazing and tragic story
I have lived in north Norfolk most of my life (age now 50) And after 23 years in RAF find It hard to believe I have never heard of this (possibly read in air clues and then forgotten? Age thing again)
I currently work in the area and will be asking anybody over 60 of their memories of that night and will report back

[hoodie]

Memorial tablet in Holt Parish Church.

https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2671/4261188950_efb5004b14.jpg

(Not my picture)

[54Phan]

A good reminder that not all casualties happen in war.

[Ancient Squipper]

Thank you JENKINS and hoodie.

Between 1964 to 1967 I was the 213 Squadron Cpl Squipper (Flying Clothing) at RAF Bruggen so I had been very well acquainted with the Canberra crew.
Whilst on a recent holiday in Norfolk I visited Holt as I had been told that a memorial existed but I could not find anybody that knew of its location or if in fact there was one.
The next time that I visit Holt I will be going to visit the church to pay my respects.

[5aday]

Hansard 11Jun69:
CANBERRA/VICTOR AIRCRAFT COLLISION (Hansard, 11 June 1969) (http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/lords/1969/jun/11/canberravictor-aircraft-collision)

[Matoman]

I served at Linton-0n-Ouse with the Eastern Radar controller who was involved in this incident, so he certainly returned to controlling duties and as far as I am aware neither controller was blamed for the collision - they both did the best they could in impossible circumstances. However, the Eastern Radar controller later left the RAF in rather unusual circumstances, after serving at RAF West Drayton, but that's another story.

As has already been stated, back then given the very poor quality of the T82 radar during periods of bad weather, and the number of active airfields in the area, the only surprise is that there were not more collisions like this over East Anglia. The people who really should have been taken to task for the collision were the individuals who agreed that the T82 radar, without decent weather surpression, was suitable for an air traffic control task in the crowded skys of the 1970s and the poor weather that's so typical of the UK.

Matoman

[Tengah Type]

I was on 214 Squadron at the time, and knew Roger Morton and Ken Peacock very well. We had been on the same OCU Course prior to becoming the first two crews on the Squadron. I joined the Squadron on 8 Aug 66, they joined a couple of weeks later. The squadron had no aircraft or groundcrew at the time.

Until a few days before the accident my wife and I had been staying with the Peacocks, as we had returned from honeymoon to find the house we were having built was not ready. We were invited to stay with them. We had moved out a few days before the accident.

I also knew Jack Slabber and his crew from when I held at Bassingborne in March/April 66 prior to joining the Victor Course.

On the night of the accident I was guesting with another crew, due to depart at a similar time to XH646, and met most of their crew in Flight Planning. There had been a screw up by the Squadron Planners, and the AEO planned for their flight was on leave. The only AEO who could be found was Sqn Ldr Doyle who had joined the Squadron that morning. There was only one Nav on the flight as it was a Left Hand Seat Conversion sortie for Roger, with Bill Gallienne as TTF Instructor. We departed leaving them still waiting for the AEO. They took off about two hours late. The weather was poor with CBs all over the place.

Half way through our sortie we heard chatter on 243 between the rescue helicopter and the RCC. The helo had found the crash site and could see wreckage of a 4 engined aircraft, which he identified as a Vulcan. He then had to make an emergency landing so we heard no more. As it was in the Marham climb out lane we thought it was probably a Victor. Also that night the other two members of my rear crew were guesting in another aircraft, and the co-pilot in yet another. So, I was pretty sure that some of my normal crew were involved. The Captain was Duty Pilot.

When we landed we went to Ops to find the Squadron Commander, OC Ops Wing and the Station Commander in their No 1s. They would not confirm which crew it was, but told us is was one of ours. We were instructed to go home and not tell anybody (wives included) anything about it.

A few days later my wife was having a cup of tea with Dil Peacock, when she received her notice of eviction from the MQ, as "No longer entitled". Dont you just love Scribblies sometimes!!!

Roger was a keen rally driver, and being driven around the winding Norfolk lanes was quite an experience!!

If memory serves me correctly, Bill Gallienne and some (all?) of the crew are buried in the graveyard at Marham Parish Church.

[Sir George Cayley]

Not often these days to see a reference to Linesman Mediator.

SGC

[RFCC]

I also was at Marham working in MEAS as a freshly minted JT from Halton. From inside the NAAFI I'd heard an enormous bang but wasn't aware what it was or that it was one of our aircraft until the following morning when we were drafted as a search party.

We were shipped out and based at Holt Hall, which I believe was a boarding school at the time, where a temporary morgue was set up in one of the out buildings. We were sent off into the fields and woods to look for aircraft parts and particularly any documentation, I found neither.

Later, I was also part of the Guard Of Honour for some of the crew at Norwich Crematorium. Many years later, when at the Crematorium, I came across a plaque on on of the exterior walls with names of some of the crew, I'm sure Sqn Ldr Gallienne was one of these.

[Top West 50]

I only found out about it, from Bill Cousins, our Batman, the following morning. Terrible atmosphere in the Mess at breakfast. I must know you , Tengah Type, but cannot place you unless you were ex 45 Sqn?

[Tengah Type]

Top West 50

Yes I was on the Fighting 45th from Oct 63 to Dec 65.

Is your " Name " your old room number at Marham? I hope you were not involved in the " Great West Wing Scandal ", if so how many extra OO Duties did you get?

[Top West 50]

Yes, opposite Bob Ferrier but not involved. Tried to get a ticket for the court martial but it was a sell out!

[bosnich71]

The Squadron history of 213 Sqdn. .. "The Hornet Strikes".. gives the the names of the crew of the Canberra B(I)6 as Flt.Lt. J. Slabber, Fg.Off. S.Cowie and Fg.Off.J.H.Woolnough.
The aircraft was, as someone has stated, engaged in a "Salmond Trophy" sortie and was climbing away from the range at Wainfleet.
The loss of WT 325 and WT 313 being assessed as Cat.5 due to airframe fatigue resulted in the Squadron being reduced to a complement of only eleven aircraft but with a complement of 18 pilots and crews.
The Squadron disbanded on 31st. December 1969.

[Snapshot]

Hi all,
Please forgive my ramblings, however, I wanted to share this with you, I do trust you don't mind?

This story has fascinated me from the very start! I was 2 years old when this tragedy took place! It is also poignant that it has been resurrected during remembrance week from the original posting some years ago!


How it has unfolded as people connected to the incident either directly or indirectly have pitched up on the thread and added their recollections has been gripping! There are many bad things about the internet and we have all had a lump in our throats recently as we have had to endure the knowledge that hideous crimes had been carried out in far away places and uploaded to be watched by anyone on youtube. However, a real plus side to the 'net' is the ability to bring people together whom without it, would have no way whatsoever of ever finding others similarly connected to an event and thus able to share their thoughts and/or feelings!


Reading the vivid and often emotional recollections of people here has been very moving! Young lads on ATC camp, radar operators, air crew who knew the crews involved, civilians caught up just being there at the time etc... There is no doubt, the crash affected many many people!

It became apparent a number of posters had mentioned a memorial or lack of knowing there was one in Holt! It struck me, as I'm sure everyone would agree, it is important to acknowledge events such as these, for as time perhaps heals as people say, so does it fade memories! A permanent memorial allows us to never forget and equally, a place to go and be with our own thoughts

As I read on I noticed a South African was the Pilot of the Canberra, Flt Lt Johan Slabber. I do spend time in the land of the Springbok (don't mention the rugby :() so it added an extra dimension of interest to me! I looked a little further and found Johan Slabber was from Cape Town and was buried in the Southern Suburbs of the City!
As more people posted their memories, the more the story became personal and the urge to visit his grave became stronger!

I've flown out of Marham and Bruggen in my time and now this young man of only 25 was at rest 6000 miles from where he died in my home land! Also, as I was away from home for remembrance Sunday and didn't get to attend a service, I thought it would be nice to try and find Flt Lt Slabber's grave and to pay my respects that way and ultimately as a gesture to all South Africans who have given their lives in service with our Country! I had to try and do this!

I have one single poppy that I keep in SA. You can't get them over here (or I have never seen them), so if I am in SA around this time of year I can wear my poppy with pride! I thought I could place that on his grave if I could find it?

Anyway, after a long search today, I finally found it and it was with great pride and respect I was able to place my poppy on Flt Lt Slabber's grave and say a few simple words of thanks!

I took a few photos as I wanted to share this with some of the posters who have mentioned they knew Johan (and perhaps for his family too) and to assure them, the graves of the men laying here have been kept immaculate! There are a lot of things wrong in SA today but it was a real pleasure to see the military section of the cemetery kept so beautifully well

As a funny note, it was very windy today and just leaving my poppy would have been futile! I left the cemetery with the idea to go buy some tape to fix the poppy to his headstone however, I felt that disrespectful so had the bright idea to manufacture a cross and fix my poppy to that!

Job done so I set off back to the cemetery again and got there late afternoon just as the sprinklers had been activated in the military gardens! Having to tactically manoeuvre and run the gauntlet to pay my respects without getting soaked must have looked very strange to the few people around but how impressive to have sprinklers to keep the grass so well kept!

As mentioned, my humble apologies for rambling on however, I am so glad I got to do this and wanted to share it with all of you who have in one way or another, had their lives affected by this sad event.

RIP to all of the men who died that night you are not forgotten
AB

http://www.avcollect.com/southafrica/aviation/slabber02a.jpg


http://www.avcollect.com/southafrica/aviation/slabber01a.jpg

[filbey1944]

Was an ATC cadet with Stu Cowie (152 City of Hull squadron) RIP

[Ancient Squipper]

Thanks for your efforts Snapshot. Very poignant for me.

[MBK1985]

My late father, James Bolton King used to tell me about this very tragic event. He was good friends with Roger Morton, I believe they did their flight training together and were both based at Marham at the time.

[Ancient Sprog]

Hello RFCC,
If you were a JT in MEAS at that time, we probably knew each other.
Do you remember that there was a 4 lane Tenpin Bowling alley at Marham?
Well, at the time of the incident, I was in the Bowl. I was a member of the Station Team. " Marham Bulls". We never heard anything until the next morning, but it was difficult to hear anything in a Bowling Alley anyway!
I was probably on the same transport to Holt as you were, and your post seems to confirm everything I remember. I wonder if the brick buildings that I recall were at the back of the school?
Its a long time ago now, and we both must be pushing 70. Something though that I'll never forget.

[Snapshot]

Ancient Squipper,
you are so very welcome my friend

[Union Jack]

I am so glad I got to do this and wanted to share it with all of you who have in one way or another, had their lives affected by this sad event. - Snapshot

Although I have no personal connection whatsoever, I would simply like to say that I too am so glad that you "got do this" very thoughtful and heart-warming act. Bless you for that, and for sharing it.:ok: No acknowledgement required.

Jack

[drummer1]

Snapshot

Thank you , on behalf of myself and our family, for visiting my brother's grave and leaving the poppy in remembrance.
My late father commanded an Anti-aircraft regiment in South Africa , and I was involved in an anti - aircraft regiment as well. So, from a military family, your gesture is truly appreciated.

[Snapshot]

Baie dankie Drummer, sent you a PM

[OLDQFI]

Few of us were happy with the decision to proceed with that inter-squadron bombing competition with such a poor weather forecast. The lucky ones among us lost only radios/compasses in the building storms.

[althalus401]

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10154068938183276&set=a.10150691556078276.422651.820263275&type=3&theater

[Wander00]

Same Valley Gnat course as Roger - nice guy -seems light years ago. Often thing of the accident and lost crews as "there but for the grace of God" and all that, used a similar climb out from Watton

[beefix]

I recently had a short break in Holt. I rented a cottage in Gravel Pit Lane. During the holiday I discovered that a wing of the Canberra (complete with engine) landed in the back garden. How on earth no one was killed on the ground is not far short of a miracle. RIP.
RGDS
BF

[Bergerie1]

Petasus,

I am a civil pilot (BOAC), now long retired, but I have also lost friends and colleagues in aviation accidents. Let me assure you that all airmen (both flying and on the ground) share your pain and remember lost colleagues.

We are all one in aviation.

[RobsterW]

I was stationed at Marham in 1968 as an Nav Bomb System Corporal tech. and thanks to the RAFMSA took part in my hobby of rally driving. I had my own rally mini as did Roger Morton and we had become friends in spite of the service ban on other ranks mixing with officers. (different times as they say) Roger and I had managed to mix socially due to our shared interest in motor sport and I and my then wife had some brief but fun social times.
On that awful night in 1968 I had heard the news on the radio and upon arriving at work from my home off camp the next morning, I had to drive past number 2 hanger and was shattered by the sight of Rogers mini parked forlornly in front of the hanger and I began to realise that this terrible crash would have even more impact on me as someone I knew well was obviously involved.
Even though it is now almost 47 years ago I can still picture that memory of Rogers car and the effect it had on me that morning.
What I do know is that Roger was doing what he loved doing that night.
I remember Roger as fun loving chap and a good friend.

[Menorcaman08]

Snapshot

Thank you , on behalf of myself and our family, for visiting my brother's grave and leaving the poppy in remembrance.
My late father commanded an Anti-aircraft regiment in South Africa , and I was involved in an anti - aircraft regiment as well. So, from a military family, your gesture is truly appreciated.

I was surprised and delighted to find this post. I knew Jack briefly in the 1960s because he married into a family (the Birds) I was friendly with. His wife was Cindy (Cynthia) Bird and we had been quite close friends. I also knew her 2 sisters, Pat and Susan and her brother, Eric as well as his mother and father. Both Eric and his father 'Dickie' were also in the RAF. I also remember Jack's daughter Samantha. She was tiny bless her when Jack died.

I remember the tragic crash clearly but it's only relatively recently that I realised it was over Holt. I lived close by in Norwich for 10 years without knowing that. I lost contact with the family around 25 - 30 years ago because of personal marital issues and I would love to know how Samantha, Susan and Pat are all doing. Sadly, Cindy died quite young as well after a second marriage and 2 further children. Eric died too. I don't think either of Cindy's parents can be alive.

If you get this message and have any information, please get in touch. I'd be happy to tell you anything else I can remember.

[drummer1]

Seems like only yesterday that we received the news of the collision !
I intend being in Holt on this day next year for the 50th anniversary !
I hope there will be a special service, either way, I will be there in remembrance of my brother Jack, and the two aircrews involved.
The are not forgotten.

[drummer1]

Will send you a PM

[drummer1]

Tried to send you a PM - you need to change your settings.

[Wander00]

RIP both crews, Victor co-pilot was on the same Valley course,, 22 Gnat

[JKerrigan]

Hello all.
First post obviously, with a request for some help with research:

XH646 Victor B2 collided with a Canberra on the night of 19 August 1968 near the village of Holt in Norfolk. Both crews were killed outright. My uncle was the P2 of the Victor and I would like to be able to learn more about that fateful night.

I have 'Googled' and gleaned some information, as yet I haven't chased any RAF sources, although this could be the next step.

I believe the Victor was from Marham and the Canberra from Bruggen, the Victor crew were on a departure climb out from Marham during atrocious weather. A radio call from XH646 was heard, "Passing 3,500 ft", this was the last received transmission.

I would be indebted to any PPruners who can help me out by correcting the above, sharing experience, etc or just where to look next.

Thanks in advance.

Petasus


My father was Captain of the Victor his name was William Anthony Gallienne. Thank you everybody for your memories and this interesting thread. I didn't know about the bombing competition that's very interesting and the more threads and articles keep springing up about my dads air crash the more I learn.

I went to the 25 th anniversary memorial service in Holt where my mum and myself helped unveil a memorial plaque which was filmed by Anglia tv. If there is a 50 th as there should rightly be I think many people might like to go as from my reading this tragic event in my life also seems to be held in the memories of so many others. So its comforting to know that so many people have remembered my dad and the two crews.

Thank you for this thread

[MPN11]

I think it's fair to say, especially today, "We will remember them".

[Fonsini]

This site never ceases to amaze me with the level of knowledge and detail regarding specific incidents. Tragic never seems an adequate description of such things.

[robertfauchon]

I remeber this incident very well. I was due to come on shift at Eastern Radar that night. You are all right it was afilthy night. I had been visiting a friend in East Wretham and needed to take a shortcut through the battle area to make it on time. I knew the battle area was inactive that night and got the fright of my life when the skies lit up with a huge explosion. I hurried on through, but of course, it wasn't in the battle area the explosion occurred. I got to Eastern in time, only to see the place in panic as everyone tried to unravel the sequence of events. I worked all night trying to reconstruct the recordings and must have gone through miles of tape on the MARS. machine. The last controller to have contacted the Victor at the hand-over, was physically sick. It wasn't his fault, but everyone took it personally and we were all devastated. God bless them all especially the crews and families.

[Vendee]

I remeber this incident very well. I was due to come on shift at Eastern Radar that night. You are all right it was afilthy night. I had been visiting a friend in East Wretham and needed to take a shortcut through the battle area to make it on time. I knew the battle area was inactive that night and got the fright of my life when the skies lit up with a huge explosion. I hurried on through, but of course, it wasn't in the battle area the explosion occurred. I got to Eastern in time, only to see the place in panic as everyone tried to unravel the sequence of events. I worked all night trying to reconstruct the recordings and must have gone through miles of tape on the MARS. machine. The last controller to have contacted the Victor at the hand-over, was physically sick. It wasn't his fault, but everyone took it personally and we were all devastated. God bless them all especially the crews and families.

Its 30 miles from the training area to Holt where the collision occurred. I'm surprised you saw the explosion if the weather was as filthy as you say. Perhaps it was the electrical storm you saw?

[5aday]

Vendee,
It is approximately 30 miles from Marham as well. I saw the sky light up from a place almost on the airfield called the Burma Road. Instead of going to supper I returned back to the control tower along with three other airmen. I was not surprised by the news when we got back up the stairs into Approach Control.
Rgds
5 aday

[Vendee]

Vendee,
It is approximately 30 miles from Marham as well. I saw the sky light up from a place almost on the airfield called the Burma Road. Instead of going to supper I returned back to the control tower along with three other airmen. I was not surprised by the news when we got back up the stairs into Approach Control.
Rgds
5 aday

I stand corrected. I've just read post #27 which confirms what you are saying about the intensity of the flash.

[SNator]

I have just checked my logbook. It was a Salmond Trophy Hi-Lo-Hi via Wainfleet range for a timed FRA. As previously stated the wx was total doggers. I remember the climb out from Wainfleet as being v turbulent and IMC with lots of St Elmo's fire all over the front of my windscreen. I was flying a B(I)8 from 14 Sqn. Radio reception was non existent because of the static. We did not know of the collision until after we landed. I think the 213 jet was either just ahead or behind us. Just bad luck and bad weather.

[banjobill]

I was a 21 year old Junior Technician at the time on TTF (tanker training flight) at Marham. (This was the OCU at Marham for both the aircraft and in flight refueling.) We despatched the aircraft late at night (and in foul weather) and settled down in the crewroom to await it's return.
Some time later the chiefy in charge told us all to go home as the aircaft had crashed. We were all mortified, not just about the crew(god rest their souls) but also about ourselves..."what have I done wrong to cause this ?" It has been cathartic to follow this thread and to find out so much more about that awful night.

[Wander00]

ISTR that one of the Eastern Radar controllers that night was a first tourist, and one of the new breed of direct entry AT Branch people (ie no previous aircrew experience), He and I were among the (very) few guys around Watton with a single rank braid. I cannot remember his name, but I can see his face, and recall that he was badly affected by the accident, although he was exonerated from responsibilirty

[5aday]

Thinking ahead to the passing of 50 years on 19th August 2018, will there be any sort of remembrance either at Marham or Holt ?

[peppermint_jam]

Good evening all, this thread has been a very interesting read. Whilst the lives lost that fateful night will never be anything other than tragic, it has been heart warming to hear about the people behind the names, what they were like and so on.

We have a part of the Canberra fin at the Aviation Heritage Centre at RAF Marham, although it is not on public display at the moment, as we are trying to work out if it would be appropriate for starters, and if so, how best to do it.

There are also parts of the Victor, displayed at the Norfolk and Suffolk aviation museum too.

We are very aware of this incident and were discussing it only today, by strange coincidence. It would obviously be very appropriate to commemorate those lost at the 50 year anniversary of the crash, I will ask some questions.

If nothing else, I'll put my best blue on and take myself up to Holt on the day to pay my respects.

[5aday]

Some posts in this thread would seem to indicate Eastern Radar (Watton) was controlling both aircraft which was not the case. All climb outs from either runway (24 /06) at Marham were handled by Midland Radar based at North Luffenham (as were arrivals as well).
5aday

[boxtopnav]

I was surprised and delighted to find this post. I knew Jack briefly in the 1960s because he married into a family (the Birds) I was friendly with. His wife was Cindy (Cynthia) Bird and we had been quite close friends. I also knew her 2 sisters, Pat and Susan and her brother, Eric as well as his mother and father. Both Eric and his father 'Dickie' were also in the RAF. I also remember Jack's daughter Samantha. She was tiny bless her when Jack died.

I remember the tragic crash clearly but it's only relatively recently that I realised it was over Holt. I lived close by in Norwich for 10 years without knowing that. I lost contact with the family around 25 - 30 years ago because of personal marital issues and I would love to know how Samantha, Susan and Pat are all doing. Sadly, Cindy died quite young as well after a second marriage and 2 further children. Eric died too. I don't think either of Cindy's parents can be alive.

If you get this message and have any information, please get in touch. I'd be happy to tell you anything else I can remember.
I am a retired RAF C130 Nav. I met the Bird Family when I was an officer cadet in 1970 at RAF Henlow. I have stayed in touch ever since. I was an Usher at Cindy's wedding to Tim Jones in 1970 and met Cindy a number of times over the years prior to her death. Both Cindy's parents have passed away but I am in contact with Pat. Sam is about 50 and has 2 girls. Sue also has a family. There are also two boys Alex and Matt as a result of Cindy's marriage to Tim Jones. A memorial service is to be held at St. Andrews church Holt on 19th August 2018 the 50th Anniversary of the mid-air collision.

[MarhamLass]

I’ve read this thread with much interest and reverence. In my job I can confirm that there will be representation from Station Command and the Station Chaplains from RAF Marham on 19th Aug. I hope to be there too with my family.

[5aday]

Timings etc : 1500 hrs on Sunday 19th August 2018 at the Parish Church in Holt.
(St Andrew's Church,Church Street, Holt, Norfolk )
Sat Nav: NR25 6BB ...
The Station Padre and Station Commander will be attending.

There is a country park nearby and a commemorative plaque
is apparently being placed there some time in the morning though
details are still slightly vague..

Parking near the church is Pay and Display..

[scarecrow450]

Ref the sky my ex Cpl was on a fag break at Eastern and he wondered what had happened, he soon found out back inside.

[bill fly]

We were in bed at home in Boundary Road and there was a terrific thunderstorm going on. The flashes were almost continuous.
Then there was an extra huge bang. Even then I had a foreboding that it was something worse than a thunderclap.
Next day in the crew room (a different squadron) it became clear. I knew the crew members by sight, but R Morton I knew personally from training days - and his Mini...
RIP

[drummer1]

51 years ago, on this day ! RIP. Not forgotten.

[Wander00]

Glass will be raised again tonight. BillFly - not 22 Course by any chance?

[Ancient Squipper]

bill fly/drumme1/Wander00
Glass raised at 22 -01 hrs to both crews (time of mid air accident}

Worked for/with the Squadron 213 Squadron crew as their Cpl Squipper (Flying Clothing} for over 2 years so knew them all very well. So will remember them for as long as I live. RIP both crews.

[bloodaxe]

I was recently married and we lived in one of the Secos kept for under 25 married types. The mid-air was a very tragic event which was made worse for my young wife when the wreckage was brought back on a low-loader in full view of the married quarters! Somewhat insensitive and very disturbing for all who saw it. I think it was about the same time that an F-100 Super Sabre crashed on the airfield after the pilot ejected on an overshoot when the engine failed. The aircraft bounced through the 55 and 57 Sqn dispersals and ended up just behind the quarters missing several Victors in the dispersal loops! It burnt well and sent ammunition shooting off in all directions when the guns and ammo trays cooked! The fire crews beat a hasty retreat and the story went around that the Station Commander drove out to the pilot through the long grass we were trying to control the birds with at the time and when he found him he was flat on his back with an ejection injury. Getting out of his car he said ‘Hello and welcome to RAF Marham’. To which the reply was ‘Gee thanks but you should know that I have just come off the range and have a full load of ammo on board.’ The Staish dashed off to warn the fire crews but they had already found out. Sick quarters sent the ambulance to the burning wreckage and were told to follow the wheel tracks in the grass to find the pilot. They rushed off and unfortunately were too enthusiastic and managed to run over his foot as they skidded to a stop causing him another injury! We were evacuated from our quarter due to the ammo cooking and didn’t get back for some time. Never a dull moment for tanker trash.

[Tengah Type]

I believe the Staish was actually talking on the telephone to the AOC at the time of the F100 incident, and had to excuse himself from continuing the conversation, as he had seen " a chap on a parachute landing just outside my office window"and thought he had best investigate what was going on. The wreck of the aircraft ended up in the wire surrounding the Bomb Dump

[Beancountercymru]

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1616x1080/8a3cedbc_15cb_432a_a545_e2e29de985ce_b132c9b7f9a54a26eadfa9b 35c544f130e0169a5.jpeg

[Snapshot]

Havent logged in for years since last got involved with this thread! Great to see the board from RAF Holt with the names on it! DCO