Rwy 24 at Marham

[nacluv]

Looking at Marham on Google, there appears to be what looks like an old section of runway (complete with peritracks) extending roughly 3/4 mile to the NE of the current rwy 24 threshold.

Did Marham have a 2 1/2 mile runway once upon a time? If so, why? And more to the point, why then chop it?

I'm intrigued...

[Jackonicko]

Isn't it just a clear path in the trees for the approach lights?

[StartLimiting]

But did you spot Fat Albert airborne off 06?

[Magnersdrinker]

Jeepers Talk must be sad here if we are to discuss this :ugh:


just kidding :ok:

[Pontius Navigator]

But did you spot Fat Albert airborne off 06?

Sad:sad:

Yes

Sadder :8

[Fareastdriver]

Was that the old Fido installation.. IIRC that extended some distance before the runway threshold.

[SilsoeSid]

From what I remember my old man saying about FIDO at St Eval, wasnt the system installed along the sides of the runways to not only disperse the fog, but also to show the edges of the runway?

http://www.fpp.co.uk/overflow/Dresden_gallery/images/0042.jpg

Anyway, these pics might reveal the purpose of the Marham 24 'extension'.

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g11/silsoesid/marham241.jpg

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g11/silsoesid/marham242.jpg

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g11/silsoesid/marham243.jpg

No 'extended' runway during the War.

http://www.raf.mod.uk/bombercommand/images/marham.jpg
http://www.raf.mod.uk/bombercommand/s41.html

[Wrathmonk]

Are you sure its not the tracks left by a certain former flt cdr on the oldest fixed wing sqn in the world landing short one day ....:E

I know it was actually landing short on 01/19 but why let truth get in the way of banter. How are the daffodils anyway ....

[Art Field]

I have a vague memory of the FIDO system being activated in the early 60's and it was around the area under question so that is my guess.

[chevvron]

Looks more likely to be the remnants of installation or maintenance of a new approach lighting system.

[spectre150]

Tell me this is a comedy thread, please! Looks to me like the local farmer is not farming around and between the approach lights.

Wrathmonk, dont tease. The 'former flt cdr landing short' story sounds fascinating (would love to know who is was ;) )

[aviate1138]

"Located 290 miles north of San Francisco, Arcata had one 6,000-ft. and one 4,500-ft. asphalt runway. An additional runway, previously planned, was canceled. In March 1944, station personnel numbered 153 officers and 532 enlisted men with barracks for 180 officers and 732 men. The station had a 128 x 160-ft. Kodiak hangar plus gun emplacements around the airfield. Arcata's station planes consisted of two GH Howard ambulance planes and one GB Staggerwing Beech.
Following the war, the area's bad weather served some useful purpose with the establishment of the Landing Aids Experiment Station. This unit was a joint project of the Army, the Navy, and the CAA that experimented with low visibility landings. United Airlines served as the prime contractor of the project. The most novel method was the "Fog Intensity Dispersal Of' or FIDO that involved the burning of gasoline along the sides of the runway to lift the fog. The British first used FIDO during the war when 157 Lancaster bombers landed at Heathrow during zero/zero weather. The simplest method consisted of burning the fuel in open trench es alongside the runway. The best results were obtained by burning from pressurized nozzles positioned every 50 ft. down the runway edge. Unfortunately, it took 20,000 gals. to sufficiently raise the fog for each landing. Gasoline cost alone was $15,000 per landing -- plus an additional $10,000 per landing for the system's maintenance. Not only was the cost prohibitive, but the system only worked on 150-ft. wide runways. When used on 200-ft. wide runways, the fog merely lifted from the sides and settled onto the center. Finally, the effort concentrated on the electronic-guided ILS. Arcata had the first ILS system in California that was eventually certified down to zero/zero. The government closed the experimental station in 1950 and deeded the property to the County."

I was flying out of Arcata in 1981 [In a B-25 [VB-25N] - Oh Happy days!] and the ditches with the now rusty tubing for dispersing the petrol, set back from the runway, were still in evidence.
The tubing did not pass the runway threshold AFAIR. The airfield was perched very close to a cliff edge. The reciprocal runway threshold piping was in a similar layout so it wasn't the cliff edge that stopped the FIDO being extended. The airfield, having been built [1943] turned out to be the World's 3rd foggiest! No wonder they had FIDO installed.
:rolleyes:

http://www.militarymuseum.org/NAASArcata.html

[olderbloke]

Wrathmonk - harsh but fair :O. Still denies it I think, (the tyre tracks in the undershoot were clearly part of a greater conspiracy:E)

[octavian]

There is an excellent book on the subject of FIDO - Flying Through Fire by Geoffrey Williams - which also lists those airfields that were FIDO equipped.

Marham was not equipped with FIDO.

As others have observed, it is the approach light system. Centreline and 5 Bar.

[Art Field]

I know old age dims the memory but I am sure Marham had some sort of FIDO type system on 24 at some time of its life, can anyone confirm or contradict?

[BEagle]

Perhaps just goosenecks with the main lighting tits up?

[SilsoeSid]

Link to the FIDO stations.

Google Maps (http://maps.google.com/maps?q=http://bbs.keyhole.com/ubb/download.php?Number=677688&t=k&om=1)

Downham Market is just SW of Marham, you can just see the old runways throught the crops.

[Fareastdriver]

I agree with Art Field. I'm positive Marham had a Fido.

[RFCC]

During my time at Marham from the late 60s to the late 80s, the large tanks by Rwy 24 on the 'Burma Road' were always referred to as the FIDO tanks.

Also, in Ken Delve's book about Marham, he refers to consideration being given to reactivating the old wartime FIDO system when referring to Marham being plagued by fog. " A number of systems were tested to overcome this restriction, including renewing and redeveloping the wartime FIDO system..."

[Art Field]

Fareastdriver and RFCC, thanks for proving that the few remaining brain cells have not entirely given out. Now, where did I leave my glasses?.

[pr00ne]

I am sure Marham was a grass field during the war, it closed in 1944 for reconstruction as a 'very heavy bomber ' base and was in that state when the war ended.

[Tim McLelland]

It is indeed just the area of freshly-cut grass around the approach lights, nothing to do with Fido or anything else.

[Top West 50]

It was the bloody FIDO!

[Tricorn]

How about a vote on this?:bored:

[Synthetic]

I'm not sure how current Google's data is. That map still shows the GR1 sim I put in in 91. I doubt that's still there.

[Pontius Navigator]

Google Earth now shows the imagery date towards the bottom right below the image. In the case of Marham it shows July 2 2006.

[Wrathmonk]

Synthetic

The old sim buildings are still there, but they have a new custodian - it was the RAF Regt who used it for GDT/CCS/Pre-Dep training etc 3 years ago (may have changed again and be occupied by BAES bods now) so whilst you don't have to visit it quite so often it's still a painful experience!:p

[Synthetic]

Thanks for that WrathMonk.

I was curious to know what had happened to it, but I certainly wasn't expecting the Rock Apes:eek: