Sunderland 'Golden Horn' crashed Lisbon 1943

[geof]

Does any body know the details of the mid air explosion that destroyed Empire air's Sunderland 'Golden Horn' G-AFCK military no X8273?

I am told by second hand oral record contemoprary of the crash that the explosion occured on a test flight reqested by the pilot in preparation for a passenger flight.

The Pilot was Capt John Lock. http://www.pprune.org/forums/images/icons/mpangel.gif

His second wife, widowed by the incident, married an American (Bruch-Openheimer) from the same base and later moved to America with a son. Johns son may have adopted the name Brook or Bridge in America.

As John was a civilain airline pilot what training if any would he have received to command a plane rigged for fighting? I think the Sunderland had a range of electronic equipment for sub hunting and convoy protection duty.

[norman atkinson]

Not a Sunderland but an Imperial Airways G-Class which is said to have been converted to RAF use under X8273.

So this aircraft was on the strength of the RAF and its crash report will be filed at RAF Hendon Museum.

And the Best Of British Luck! I wrote a crash report and 50 years after the pilots had apperently changed seats at 100feet on a dying engine- over RAF Hendon.

[renfrew]

G-AFCK Golden Horn returned to BOAC from the RAF in Dec 1941.
After an engine change at Lisbon in Jan 1943 the aircraft crashed during a test flight.

[Evening Star]

'Adventurous Empires' by Phillip E. Sims, published by Airlife ISBN1 84037 130 7, confirms the post by Norman Atkinson that Golden Horn was a Short S26 'G-class' flying boat, first flight 24 February 1940, RAF X8273 July 1940 and BOAC December 1941, plus on p204 gives an account of the loss of Golden Horn.

In summary, on 9 January 1941 Capt Lock took Golden Horn on an air test following an engine change. While respected by the staff at Lisbon, he apparently breached orders from London and those on board included a number of unauthorised passengers, including customs officers, loaders and wives. It would also appear that he had his own ideas with regard to cooling gill and oil-cooler settings, and it may be that during this flight he put these theories to the test. What is known is that Golden Horn experienced an engine fire that, due to the lack of extinguishers in the Hercules engines, became uncontained, affecting the tail surfaces and, due to the nature of flow around the aircraft, filling the cockpit with thick smoke. Capt Lock was unable to see out during the landing and crashed into the Tagus, with only two survivors. The exact number of those perished is, due to the number of unauthorized passengers, unknown but may be at least a dozen.

[Seebafilmer]

I believe my uncle was one of the crew on Golden Horn. He told me he was not needed for the Air test (being what I understand today to be a loadmaster/cabin crew) so opted to stay on the ground trying the local wine. The captain invited some of the local VIP's/ dignitaries for a 'joyride' and set off for the air test. This was obviously lucky for my Uncle but very embarassing politically, when Portugal was supposed to be neutral. He gave me a photograph of a Sunderland burning in the water but I don't know if this was the same incident.

[Cool banana]

Seebafilmer, would you be able to show the picture so we might be able to work out if it could be Golden Hind or another flying boat.

[Seebafilmer]

Hi Cool banana, This photo was given to me by my uncle and I have seen it published in I think an excellent Coastal Command book that I have since given away when I left UK. The book identifies the incident but I have forgotten the details. I think it was Lisbon. The two may not be related as I guess my Uncle was given the photo by another crew member or maybe took it himself but I think not. He was probably there anyway otherwise I can see no reason for him having it. It is an original print, the sort you get back from the chemist. I have also included a pic of my uncle who started in Imperial Airways in 1937 to 1941 - Air Communications worldwide then 1941 - 1947 in RAF Transport Command. He flew in De Haviland 'Comets', (Frobishers)? Sunderlands, Catalinas, DC3, Yorks, Boeing 314's. The second pic he told me was training cadets (IA?)
He was quite a character, travelled all the Sunderland routes, crashed in a DC3 in West Africa, nearly died there and told me many fascinating stories. I seem to have forgotten much of the detail and didn't ask him things which now we would like to know.

Having written all this I can't see how to attach the Pics or link to them!!! I can email as attachment if you can give me address.

[Pondskater]

Hi,

G-AFCK had set off from Lisbon on 30th Dec but returned with a fault in the Starboard outer engine - a replacement was ordered. On the subsequent test flight (9th January 43) a fire broke out in the starboard inner and the aircraft crashed on forced landing.

The accident report noted there were six authorised crew and a further nine unauthorised passengers. Only two survived the crash.

The cause was discovered to be a failure of No4 cylinder which then resulted in further damage, incuding the detachment of No6 cylinder and the subsequent fire.

On landing the aircraft porpoised and crashed, disintegrating. Causes were said to be smoke in the cockpit obscuring the pilots view (the co-pilot had opened his window which drew more smoke from further aft in the cabin onto the flight deck and the wing root hatch covers were not in place) and fire damage to the tail plane, which might have affected handling.

The lack of fully feathering propellors was significant, in that they would have likely prevented the damage to the engine which caused the fire, had the engine been shut down when the vibration started.

The carrying of passengers was a serious breach of the BOAC policy, which the report blamed on Capt Lock, although ground staff were also criticised.

Who was your uncle - I can look and see if he gave evidence at the enquiry.

And here's a photo of the damage to the engine. You can post photos to a photo hosting website such as Photobucket and then copy and paste the img code into your message.

http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc106/pondskater/G-AFCK.jpg

[Seebafilmer]

Thanks pondskater for the info on how to get pics seen. so have linked them here. My uncle Alexander Barratt during his Imperial Airways and BOAC time, also the photo he gave me. This shows stbd inner on fire but was this the aircraft that crashed with the local VIPs on board?
http://i879.photobucket.com/albums/ab358/seebafilmer/Attachment0.jpg
http://i879.photobucket.com/albums/ab358/seebafilmer/Attachment1.jpg
http://i879.photobucket.com/albums/ab358/seebafilmer/Attachment2.jpg

[Pondskater]

Hi,

Alexander Barratt was not one of the witnesses called at the enquiry. Apart from his fortunate escape in not being required on the flight, he was clearly not involved with it.

Interestingly, the photo shows a Short Sunderland on fire and not the G-Class Empire Boat Golden Horn. In fact it is one of a series of images of Sunderland L5807 of 228 Squadron which was shot up by a Bf109 at Malta 27 April 1941. It was burnt out.

I'm not sure why he would have had that photo, there could be many reasons for it to have had some significance for him. Thanks for showing it and the others of him.

I've attached one more of the same incident, photographed a little later just slightly off to one side and with the wings settling into the water.

To get the images to appear you need an code in front of the webaddress. It should also have an code after the address.

All the best

http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc106/pondskater/1266.jpg

[Cool banana]

Seebafilmer many thanks for putting the photos up.

[Mike Ormondroyd]

Captain John Lock was my wife's uncle.

Little about him is know between the time he joined the Royal Air Force and his death in Portugal.

I did find his grave in Lisbon with help from the British Consulate

If anyone has any details on his widow & her son all information would be gratefully received

[A30yoyo]

There's a photo of The Golden Horn on the Google LIFE archive...I've always assumed it's at Lisbon (because the crowd are wearing hats) but there was a crane like that at Shorts Belfast Harbour facility
LIFE: Air Aero 1920- (2 Folders) - Hosted by Google (http://images.google.com/hosted/life/f?q=aero+1920+source:life&prev=/search%3Fq%3Daero%2B1920%2Bsource:life%26hl%3Den%26biw%3D143 6%26bih%3D713%26tbm%3Disch&imgurl=92f530045ce56035)

[Seebafilmer]

I can't help about Capt. John Lock but if you see my earlier posts I explained that my uncle Alexander Barratt told me about the crash in Lisbon about 1982. I wish I had paid more attention. He explained that as it was an airtest he was not required so sat it out, (probably in a local bar). He told me that it was an embarassing situation because the local VIP's who were invited for a 'joy ride' were more than local dignitaries and that one was very senior in the Portugese hierarchy. Any report of his death in a British military aircraft at that time when Portugal was neutral would have grave consequences. He may have mentioned the person, I didn't pay attention! I felt it was someone like a prime minister or another of that position?

I can see now that some of the photos he gave me are of the Flying boat on fire at what seems to be Malta. I assumed it was to do with the crash at Lisbon and didn't ask about them specifically. He spoke very fast and I missed lots of info.

My uncle gave me some notes about his flying details:

Imperial Airways and later Transport Command
1937 - 1947 Air Communications worldwide
1941 - 1947 RAF Transport Command worldwide.

Logged 3000 air hours and 1 million air miles,

Flew in,
Comets -(Frobishers) De havilland
Sunderlands
Catalinas
DC3's
Yorks
Boeing 314's

I posted some photos of him before. He could tell the most amazing stories and seemed to have been everywhere!

[Seebafilmer]

Found this further pic of Sunderland L5807 (reg visible with magnifying glass) . Given to me by my Uncle. Perhaps the local photographer in malta was doing a trade in photos of the incident. My Uncle was probably there, he had transferred to RAF in 1941, he seems to have turned up everywhere! Looks as if they were attempting to tow because the AC has been turned and an earlier pic shows a launch.

http://i879.photobucket.com/albums/ab358/seebafilmer/sundL5807A.jpg

http://i879.photobucket.com/albums/ab358/seebafilmer/sundL5807B.jpg

[wilts_mike]

I married into the Lock family (John's Brother's Side) when working in Lisbon I visited his grave on behalf of this side of the family;

Like yourself have heard various versions of the story

[g3m3gg]

Hi all,

I'm new to the forum but am researching my step-father's family tree for him and stumbled across this very old post. My step-father's cousin Herbert James Lansdale Courtney (known as Bert) was one of the fatalities on this flight. He was aged 21 at the time and was the coxswain for the Golden Horn so I assume he was one of those who were meant to be on the flight as opposed to one of the unauthorised passengers.

I'm afraid I can't don't have any more information other than has already been discussed here, but in the interests of sharing information I thought I'd comment on this thread

[DHfan]

I've just spotted this.
Seebafilmer said his uncle flew in, amongst others "Comets -(Frobishers) De havilland".

Imperial Airways gave the class name Frobisher to the DH.91 Albatross.

[A30yoyo]

Crash Golden Horn G-AFCK Lisbon 1943

There is a large folder on this at the National Archives containing reports,enquiries and many original photographs...I'll endeavour to post some extracts next week

[A30yoyo]

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/800x310/g_afck_0ae0d8b4b92138666ae13bae17ec7730e7f0a112.jpg
At Lisbon after the 1942 float replacement?
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1400x1013/g_afck_b_0491c122bea52216cdad42f2f83ad6fe117dad77.jpg
Wreckage recovered Lisbon 1943 a
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1400x947/g_afck_a_a0092f43f49e62c6204ed28c9598e94821e6a8c5.jpg
Wreckage recovered Lisbon 1943 b
g

[ericferret]

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/800x310/g_afck_0ae0d8b4b92138666ae13bae17ec7730e7f0a112.jpg
At Lisbon after the 1942 float replacement?
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1400x1013/g_afck_b_0491c122bea52216cdad42f2f83ad6fe117dad77.jpg
Wreckage recovered Lisbon 1943 a
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1400x947/g_afck_a_a0092f43f49e62c6204ed28c9598e94821e6a8c5.jpg
Wreckage recovered Lisbon 1943 b
g

I wonder why there would be a British policeman in Lisbon?

[Jhieminga]

Perhaps he was connected to the embassy, or he was sent over to guard the wreckage, to safeguard any evidence for the investigation? Just guesses I'm afraid.

[WHBM]

It is surprising how often casual trial/test etc events that come to grief turn out to have unexpected passengers on them. The French high-speed train crash at Strasbourg, and the German Maglev train crash both had this. The Russian Sukhoi Superject in Indonesia 10 years ago likewise, and there have been others in the past.

[chevvron]

Perhaps he was connected to the embassy, or he was sent over to guard the wreckage, to safeguard any evidence for the investigation? Just guesses I'm afraid.
Maybe the photo wasn't taken in Lisbon? There's at least part of a letter 'V' painted on the large piece of what looks like a wing (although it could be part of an 'A' upside down, the reg being G-AFCK painted on camouflage) and at least 3 guys near the bobby are wearing ties, hardly the sort of garb for the Portuguese but common in the UK.

[megan]

hardly the sort of garb for Portuguese but common in the UKBritish personnel sent to investigate the crash or embassy staff?

[Jhieminga]

Maybe the photo wasn't taken in Lisbon?
That's what I thought too, but the best I can do is this cropped bit from the second photo. I can see 'LISBOA' in the second line, although it's a stretch, which would support the photos having been taken in that country, or next to a barge that hailed from that country. If they shipped parts over to the UK, I would have expected a vessel that was a bit more substantial though.

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/928x732/cropped_lisbon_c80a88b6017deadee72066bbe96890ad8955ff71.jpg

[chevvron]

That's what I thought too, but the best I can do is this cropped bit from the second photo. I can see 'LISBOA' in the second line, although it's a stretch, which would support the photos having been taken in that country, or next to a barge that hailed from that country. If they shipped parts over to the UK, I would have expected a vessel that was a bit more substantial though.

It's the third photo containing a bobby and three 'official' looking types wearing ties that, to me, is not Lisbon and is more likely to be in the UK; I don't dispute the other photos.

[megan]

I find it hard to believe that the wreckage would have been repatriated to the UK in the middle of a war.

[chevvron]

I find it hard to believe that the wreckage would have been repatriated to the UK in the middle of a war.
I don't think that happened; what I'm suggesting is this third photo is of an entirely different crash somewhere around the UK (unlless they wore that type of police uniform in Malta)

[DH106]

Malta? Isn't Lisbon in Portugal.

[chevvron]

Malta? Isn't Lisbon in Portugal.
Maltese police wore that style of police uniform including the helmet; I think they changed to khaki later but I don't when; there must have been quite a few flying boat crashes there during WW2.

[Expatrick]

Maltese police wore that style of police uniform including the helmet; I think they changed to khaki later but I don't when; there must have been quite a few flying boat crashes there during WW2.

I believe the Maltese stopped using the British "Bobby" type of uniform well before the second war.

[bean]

I don't think that happened; what I'm suggesting is this third photo is of an entirely different crash somewhere around the UK (unlless they wore that type of police uniform in Malta)
But these pics come from the National Archives file on G-AFCK

[DHfan]

Embassies generally are "guarded" and I wouldn't have thought that we could spare or need a platoon or whatever of armed servicemen.

As Portugal was neutral, and our oldest ally, I wouldn't be surprised if UK policemen were part of the embassy staff.

[chevvron]

I believe the Maltese stopped using the British "Bobby" type of uniform well before the second war.
Obviously not there then!!

[megan]

what I'm suggesting is this third photo is of an entirely different crash somewhere around the UKAs bean has said the photos come from the official file of the G-AFCK accident, proof enough. The second photo is the underside of the tail boom with attached stabiliser, the third photo is of the upper fuselage between the wing trailing edge and fin, identified by the circular hatch, located immediately forward of the letter K of the registration in the first photo.

[Expatrick]

Now if we could only identify the policeman!

[chevvron]

Embassies generally are "guarded" and I wouldn't have thought that we could spare or need a platoon or whatever of armed servicemen.

As Portugal was neutral, and our oldest ally, I wouldn't be surprised if UK policemen were part of the embassy staff.
My wife's father spent 2 years as an army corporal in WW2 'guarding' the embassy (or maybe it was the High Commision) in Jamaica so at least in some cases, it did happen.

[barry lloyd]

Maybe the photo wasn't taken in Lisbon? There's at least part of a letter 'V' painted on the large piece of what looks like a wing (although it could be part of an 'A' upside down, the reg being G-AFCK painted on camouflage) and at least 3 guys near the bobby are wearing ties, hardly the sort of garb for the Portuguese but common in the UK.

For me, the decider is the tiled paving. You see this all over Lisbon, but not many other places. I would discount the ties. This was the 1940s when such formal clothes were more common. I've spent a lot of time in Portugal (mainly Lisbon), and those who have senior positions still wear ties, even today. The language and the customs of Portugal remain more formal than those of many counties in Europe. Notice also how high the land is on the other side of the dock. Lisbon is very hilly, (said, like a number of other cities, to be built on seven hills).
I can't offer a sensible explanation for the bobby. Possibly from the embassy, because it seems unlikely that they would send one all the way from the UK to guard a piece of aircraft wreckage. One random thought - could he have been sent from Gibraltar?

[bean]

Barry Lloyd. Very gpod suggestion

[DHfan]

I can't see a policeman being brought in from anywhere else. What justification would there be in time of war?

[bean]

I can't see a policeman being brought in from anywhere else. What justification would there be in time of war?
Exactly

[barry lloyd]

I can't see a policeman being brought in from anywhere else. What justification would there be in time of war?

So perhaps he was Portuguese after all. From Wiki:

The Portuguese Public Security Police (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Security_Police) (PSP) constables wore a custodian-style helmet from 1936 to 1958. The helmets were made of cork, covered with dark blue fabric, having on the front a silver PSP star (six points star (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_(heraldry)) with the Portuguese Shield (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coat_of_arms_of_Portugal) in the centre).

The angle is not the best, but that could well be a six-pointed star.

[megan]

Portugal has three policing agencies, the Polícia Judiciária wasn't formed until 1945 so can be discounted.

Guarda Nacional Republicana: National Republican Guard. A gendarmerie that mainly work out of major cities but in 98% of the Portuguese territory and provides a national highway patrol (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highway_patrol), a fiscal guard and a national environment protection police.
Polícia de Segurança Pública: Public Security Police. Civilian police force that works in larger urban areas.
Polícia Judiciária: Judicial Police. Overseen by the Public Ministry, they investigate criminal cases

The Polícia de Segurança Pública

Exclusive powers: responsible for weapons control, ammunition and explosives, outside the authority of the armed and security forces, as well as guaranteeing the security for personnel of domestic and foreign entities, and other citizens subject to threat of person
Special powers: responsible for airport security and the protection of diplomatic missions both locally and internationally

The foregoing would explain the policemans presence.

Te apparent star on the helmet possibly comes from the units insignia.

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/140x198/ab265_4fbf89b12b453e4d784c8e82dec12e47a03df2cf.png

I see you beat me to it barry