PDA

View Full Version : UK P..effin'..C Attitude To CHRISTMAS


ScottyDawg
1st Dec 2007, 19:09
Right then... It's 1st December - only 20 (or so) shopping days to go to the big day.!!:O

Latest rumours from the tree hugging, touchy-feely, let's be nice to ethnics.. and let's not upset anybody brigade... Is... don't be overly overt in celebrating the great event...this can best be illustrated by the following little nugget.!!

Just bought a book on Climate Change... would you believe that every reference to dates in this book - whch would have formerly been identified by the suffix "BC" (Before Christ).. has been changed to ... and get this... "BCE".(Before Current Events)..

I want to know what namby-pamby, liberal, anti Christian despot is responsible for this deliberate pagan act... and have them named, shamed... and thoroughly larched...strung up..etc..etc...:ouch::ouch:

Any similar thoughts or stories..???

Gonzo
1st Dec 2007, 19:12
Nothing to do with Christmas though, is it?

BCE (I always understood it to mean Before Common Era) has been used for years to denote dates in a secular way. I remember it was in our school Religious Education textbooks back in the 1990s.

Don't see what the problem is....

Davaar
1st Dec 2007, 19:26
Well, Gonzo, it does rather imply that the "Common Era" began with the birth of, ummm, [fill in the blank]. So where does that take us?

ScottyDawg
1st Dec 2007, 19:34
Dear Gonzo,

Thank you for pointing out the error BCE = Before Common Era

But it has everything to do with Christmas.... I went to school in the 1970's for almost 20 centuries we have measured time against the date prior to our Lord's arrival (BC)... and following his untimely demise (AD)
Additionally our calendar is referred to as the "Gregorian" calendar in recognition of Pope Gregory the umpteenth.... who instituted it's use throughout the christian world.

The whole point of celebrating Christmas....is to celebrate the birth of our Lord.. and to give thanks for that monumental event.

You stated that the use of "BCE".. denotes dates in a secular way... AND that is exactly the point....

When I last looked the UK is a country totally and utterly steeped in the traditions of Christianity and our Queen is the head of the Church... - so where does this "secular" thing come from... and who decided it..!!

BDiONU
1st Dec 2007, 19:47
The whole point of celebrating Christmas....is to celebrate the birth of our Lord.. and to give thanks for that monumental event.
Poppycock! More brainwashing by those afflicted with religion I'm afraid. There is not even agreement on when 'your lord' was born, some 'learned sources' reckon it was in the spring. Sextus Julius Africanus, a third century Christian missionary, is believed to have first espoused the theory of Christís birth as December 25th. This worked well when the Romans later largely converted to Christianity because Christmas could be tied to pagan winter rituals, making it more palatable.
The history of Christmas is a varied and riotous story. Early Europeans marked the year's longest night -- the winter solstice -- as the beginning of longer days and the rebirth of the sun. They slaughtered livestock that could not be kept through the winter and feasted from late December through January. German pagans honored Oden, a frightening god who flew over settlements at night, blessing some people and cursing others. The Norse in Scandinavia celebrated yuletide, and each family burnt a giant log and feasted until it turned to ash.
In Rome, people celebrated the raucous festival of Saturnalia from Dec. 17 to Dec. 24 in honor of Saturn, the god of agriculture. The celebration consisted of a carnival-like period of feasting, carousing, gambling, gift-giving and upended social positions. Slaves could don their masters' clothes and refuse orders and children had command over adults. Two other Roman festivals, Juvenalia, a feast in honor of Rome's children, and Mithras, a celebration in honor of the infant god Mithra, also fell near the solstice.
By the fourth century, the church decided that Christians needed a December holiday to rival solstice celebrations. Church leaders selected Dec. 25 for the Feast of the Nativity. Christmas gained ground over the next several hundred years, becoming a full-fledged holiday by the ninth century.

BD

tony draper
1st Dec 2007, 19:48
I think the world of science uses PB, ie Before Present,tiz a bit silly if paelantologists(sp?) talked about a critter who wandered the Earth 65,000,000 years BC when the Earth has only existed for about 4000 years according to the chaps followers.
Anyway once one is established in power it shall all be changed to BD,ie Before Draper.
:rolleyes:

Bus429
1st Dec 2007, 19:50
I went shopping in Carlisle today. I hate Christmas and shopping anyway but I could not wait to get out. Chav-f*****g-tastic, gormless morons buying useless tat that will never be used. Don't people realise that the retailers milk them for everything they can get? "...worst Christmas season so far...early sales...gloom in the high street..."; don't believe a word of it!
Another thing: the British public seem to be getting ruder. No longer are doors held open for those behind you, no longer do people give way to you if you happen to walk directly towards each other.
Whinge, whinge, whinge...sorry, spleen vented.:mad:

bnt
1st Dec 2007, 21:10
Well, we have to agree on something to use for dates, and CE/AD is used worldwide. There's no particular year that secularists celebrate, and even if there was, we generally don't find it necessary to impose our ideas on the rest of the world. If you need another solid dating system, why not try the Islamic Calendar: it's a Lunar calendar that doesn't recognise seasons, and we're currently in year 1428. It's only a number, after all.

This sounds like another of these bogus "War on Christmas" stories doing the rounds on the Internet this year. :hmm:

Gonzo
1st Dec 2007, 21:38
Davaar,

Well, Gonzo, it does rather imply that the "Common Era" began with the birth of, ummm, [fill in the blank]. So where does that take us?

Does it? I thought it just signified the start of the calendar which is in widespread, worldwide use, by many different peoples of many different beliefs.

Scotty Dawg,

The whole point of celebrating Christmas....is to celebrate the birth of our Lord.. and to give thanks for that monumental event.

You stated that the use of "BCE".. denotes dates in a secular way... AND that is exactly the point....

When I last looked the UK is a country totally and utterly steeped in the traditions of Christianity and our Queen is the head of the Church... - so where does this "secular" thing come from... and who decided it..!!

The point of celebrating Christmas to me, as an atheist, is to have a good time, to see family and friends, to think about those who are less fortunate than me etc etc.

I was under the impression that the reigning monarch is now 'defender of faith' rather than '....of the faith'.

Of course we are steeped in the traditions of Christianity...weren't quite a few people persecuted at one point for not following that particular religion (or flavours thereof)? Just because we 'have always done it that way' doesn't mean we should keep doing it that way.

Again I ask.....the moniker we apply to our method of measuring dates; why does changing that name damage any of your beliefs or the way you worship at this time of year?

BDiONU
1st Dec 2007, 22:14
Last Christmas day JILL Singer wrote in the Australian Herald Sun Sunday (http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,20971575-5006029,00.html): Season's Greetings! I love Christmas. Some might think I have no right to because I am an atheist. But for countless millions of non-believers across the world, today is still a very special day.
.
To we heathens, infidels, barbarians (call us what you like), today is a wonderful opportunity to celebrate things such as family, peace and goodwill to others, the essential spirit of Christmas. It's just that we don't believe in or feel the need to celebrate the supernatural.
.
It is quite a delicious irony that this Christmas, one of the most popular choices of gifts happens to be Richard Dawkins' book, The God Delusion. In my view, it constitutes a dazzling and timely demolition job on religion.

For myself BDiONU I like to take the opportunity to quote yea olde weary online PC xmas salutation:
Please accept with no obligation, implied or implicit, our best wishes for an environmentally conscious, socially responsible, low stress, non-addictive, gender neutral celebration of the winter solstice holiday, practiced with the most enjoyable traditions of religious persuasion or secular practices of your choice with respect for the religious/secular persuasions and/or traditions of others, or their choice not to practice religious or secular traditions at all. We also wish you a fiscally successful, personally fulfilling and medically uncomplicated recognition of the onset of the generally accepted calendar year 2008, but not without due respect for the calendars of choice of other cultures whose contributions to society have helped make our country great (not to imply that the United States is necessarily greater than any other country) and without regard to the race, creed, color, age, physical ability, religious faith or sexual preference of the wishee.
By accepting this greeting, you are accepting these terms: This greeting is subject to clarification or withdrawal. It is freely transferable with no alteration to the original greeting. It implies no promise by the wisher to actually implement any of the wishes for her/himself or others and is void where prohibited by law, and is revocable at the sole discretion of the wisher. This wish is warranted to perform as expected within the usual application of good tidings for a period of one year or until the issuance of a subsequent holiday greeting, whichever comes first, and warranty is limited to replacement of this wish or issuance of a new wish at the sole discretion of the wisher.
Disclaimer: No trees were harmed in the sending of this message; however, a significant number of electrons were slightly inconvenienced.

BD

Bushfiva
2nd Dec 2007, 04:10
The whole point of celebrating Christmas....is to celebrate the birth of our Lord.. and to give thanks for that monumental event.

Does anyone remember the QI Christmas Special? Sol Invictus? And isn't it odd how the birth of a then-unknown person is fixed to a specific date, while the death of the self-same then notorious person is a movable feast?

Loose rivets
2nd Dec 2007, 04:53
I measure time from the very beginning. We are now of course up to 14,536,582,616 BBB

Wingswinger
2nd Dec 2007, 08:10
I was under the impression that the reigning monarch is now 'defender of faith' rather than '....of the faith'.


Er, no. She is still Defender of The Faith meaning the Church of England. Defender of Faith is a vagueness which her number one son would like to introduce when (if) he ascends to the throne in order to pander to catholics, Scottish presbyterians, episcopalians, "weefrees", the Church of Wales, methodists, baptists, other sundry non-conformists, jews, muslims, hindus, sikhs and perhaps even wiccans and other sundry pagans. The only people left out would be......atheists! :}

And, with luck, Global Warmists; for that is a faith too, is it not?

BDiONU
2nd Dec 2007, 08:56
And, with luck, Global Warmists; for that is a faith too, is it not?
Faith (of the religious kind) is belief in something without any proof or facts of any description and often DESPITE proof to the contrary. Global warming cannot be described as having no proof or facts, people have arrived at their belief in global warming having reviewed the available scientific evidence. You can have a rational, logical discussion between those who do and do not believe in global warming. You cannot do this with those inflicted with religion because the cornerstone of their entire edifice is the supernatural.

BD

Wingswinger
2nd Dec 2007, 11:20
BD,

My comment was tongue-in-cheek. However, I do think GW can be described as without conclusive proof. Its proponents have lots of hypotheses but no proof. And a zealotry in promoting their hypotheses which borders on religious. Isn't that what the argument on the GW thread is all about?

frostbite
2nd Dec 2007, 12:53
"those inflicted with religion"

Wouldn't infected have been a better adjective?

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!
2nd Dec 2007, 13:23
I went to school in the 1970'sthough you apparently didn't actually learn much :rolleyes:

for almost 20 centuries we have measured time against the date prior to our Lord's arrival (BC)...
No YOUR lord only made it to England about four hundred or so years later, once Christians had gained enough power and numbers to genocide the existing population in a move that made the Nazis look like a Girl Guide troop.

and following his untimely demise (AD)
Wrong again. AD begins where BC leaves off


Additionally our calendar is referred to as the "Gregorian" calendar in recognition of Pope Gregory the umpteenth.... who instituted it's use throughout the christian world.
It had nothing to do with Pope Gregory, other than he was the Capo di Capo at the time so you had to get his permission before you did anything if you didn't like your stake well done. The Gregorian Calendar was devised by Alyosius Lylius in an effort to replace the Julian Calendar, which had the embarrasing defect of having too many days in it.



The whole point of celebrating Christmas....is to celebrate the birth of our Lord.. and to give thanks for that monumental event.
Wrong again. The point of xmas was originally to subvert the existing pagan faith by stealing all their rituals. Makes it a lot easier to force people to convert. The current reason for xmas is to sell worthless made-in-China tat that will never be used to moronic chavs and to decorate your house with gqaudy lights just to piss off your neighbours. Oh and to slaughter innocent trees by the million.


You stated that the use of "BCE".. denotes dates in a secular way... AND that is exactly the point....

When I last looked the UK is a country totally and utterly steeped in the traditions of Christianity

You are quite simply wrong, blinkered, fed on a diet of propaganda, whatever. The UK is toitally and utterly steeped in Pagan traditions. It was and is a pagan country. Any forcing of Christianity upon it was done as an invasion by outsiders and is no different from the future horror so often predicted on prune of Islam taking over the country. Christianity, Islam - there's no difference really, they are both outsiders whoi want to impose their will by force and if Islam is successfull, a thousand years will go by and this same discussion will take place on another bulletin board with someone saying th UK is totally and uterly steepd in the traditions of Islam.

Here's a hint for you to start your research: Can you find any British towns mentioned in the bible? Not even any big ones? What about British people? Any of those in there?

Blacksheep
2nd Dec 2007, 15:24
For me, the politically correct attitude to Xmas is that displayed in Malaysia. A predominantly Muslim but truly multi-cultural society. We could all learn from them.

CarltonBrowne the FO
2nd Dec 2007, 17:37
There may not be any British towns mentioned in the bible, but there are several mentions of British motorcycles. IIRC one such instance is "the sound of Moses' Triumph was heard throughout the land."

merlinxx
2nd Dec 2007, 19:51
**** the UK, go to DXB etc., duty free, bloody magic and the booze is cheaper to.