Nationwide grounded

[Marcus the wise]

Just heard that Nationwide is going to have it's entire fleet grounded by the SACAA. Apparently the SACAA has withdrawn the airlines AMO license.
Things must have been really bad there or this is a serious over reaction.
Can you imagine how this is going to effect their xmas pax loads due to loss of confidence!
Interesting times.

[Siguarda al fine]

More like interesting RUMOUR.......................

[Deltad]

Unfortunately it is not a rumour, just heard an interview with Nationwide on 702 their AMO has been withdrawn and all flights have been suspended till further notice.

[Siguarda al fine]

Why would they stop flying serviceable aircraft ???????????????????

[Marcus the wise]

Servicable in the eyes of VB or SACAA? Most likely after an inspection by SACAA they found that there AMO was non complient in certain areas when carrying out inspections and servicing. Must have been serious, usually SACAA give the AMO a period of time to correct difficiencies in procedures.With press making such a issue of flight problems in the last month,I wonder if that is not a reaction to that?!
Let the games begin!!

[Q4NVS]

With press making such a issue of flight problems in the last month,I wonder if that is not a reaction to that?!

And next the BMW Plant in Rosslyn will be shutdown because someone's Beemer had a Flat Battery this morning.

Idiots they are, these Journalists.
(Worse than 2nd hand car salesman - hate them!)

:sad:

[RobinB]

WTF have journos got to do with the situation ? NW's maintenace licence was pulled by SACAA, NW grounded their kites "as a precautionary measure", what more do you want ????

[Marcus the wise]

With no AMO how can your engineers sign out your aircraft to fly, and hand over the aircraft to the pilot as servicable to fly..mmmm

[four engine jock]

Grounding Nationwide is just the CAA's way of saving face for failing there FAA audit.
The CAA is playing with the lives of many hard working employees at Nationwide.
I think its time that all CEO of all Airlines in South Africa sue the crap out of the SACAA.

[Fliterisk]

Perhaps the aircraft arent fit to fly... maybe? :bored::eek:

Fact is that the CAA are often criticised if they do nothing and then in this case when they take action on something.

I for one never fly Nationwide. Its personal and while I have the utmost respect for the pilots who fly there, there have been questions raised of their maintenance for a long time... for some this may not be surprising I think.

This is bitter sweet... its about time VB stops thinking he is untouchable... an airline is a business... treat your aircraft, your staff and your business properly and it will do the same. Money has to be put back in...

For the pilots and staff... maybe some good will come of this... there are other airlines out there and if this was going to happen... now is as good a time as any (bar XMas), but its a pilots market... good luck and I hope it all pans out!:ok::ok::ok:

[Siguarda al fine]

I for one never fly Nationwide. Its personal and while I have the utmost respect for the pilots who fly there, there have been questions raised of their maintenance for a long time... for some this may not be surprising I think.


You have respect for pilots that fly (in your considered opinion) aircraft that are usafe? What kind of mixed up bumbafu are you?

[Fliterisk]

Perhaps your personal comment was a little uncalled for SIGUARDA... the fact that you chose to point out that "in my considered opinion" could be applied to your comment as you quickly mentioned that this was a RUMOUR...:ugh::ugh::ugh:

Point taken though... perhaps I should reserve judgement though, because I know some of them and they are good guys... maybe respect was used loosely. Maybe I just feel sorry for them stuck in the middle of all of this... :rolleyes: I know how hard pilots work to get into airlines and now something like this, when IMHO is caused by one or a few people who are full of self interest and profiteering. I know that VB some years ago wouldnt spend R100 per pilot per month on their loss of license benefit... you have to wonder where he was cutting on the maintenance...:confused:

[Skillie]

Saw a Nationwide aircraft taxing out this morning at OT. Maybe to go and park somewhere in a corner.

[nugpot]

With no AMO how can your engineers sign out your aircraft to fly, and hand over the aircraft to the pilot as servicable to fly..mmmm

I'm not very clued up on this, but does a licensed engineer need to be part of an AMO to sign out an aircraft?

[LJP]

The AME has to be working under an AMO Licence

[asianeagle]

Any chance this could be part of a dirty tricks campaign, considering the timing of the grounding, busy time of year, SAA needing more pax......oops did I say that!!!!:}:}

[Jetwhite]

The grounding of Nationwide,on the first day of school vacation,is a blatent South African Airways involvement in grounding all private white owned airline operators in South Africa.
They cannot compete,so they inform the so called brothers and sisters at the caa do do the dirty work for them,in order that they can fill there aircraft.
Comair labour case,is also an example.

[asianeagle]

jeeez bru, it was only wind up, now you even got me thinking:confused:

[AirwayBlocker]

I wouldn't think too hard about Jetwhite's comment.

If you take a look I think you will find that there is barely a seat available on most of SAA's flights these days.

What they need is more capacity, not more passengers.

[fluffyfan]

Jetwhite I was wondering when SAA was going to be blamed.

I think SAA have more pressing issues at the moment, like restructuring the airline, the management at SAA have neither the time or the imagination to pull of such a stunt at a time like this.

You are very quick to blame SAA but lets just suppose that for once the SACAA has done its job properly, it might actually save some lives, how would you like it if your family was vaporised in an aircraft accident, there must be reasons for this move by the SACAA, and rumors have persisted for a long time of sub-standard maintenance by Nationwide, I have friends there who have relayed some horrific stories about captains being told to depart (or threatened with dismissal) even though the MEL says the aircraft is unsuitable to fly.

[ZS340]

Fluffyfan agreed!

CAA well done........at last you are doing your werk!

[four engine jock]

Come on Fluffy. What a load of KAK.
I know a few guys there.
Would never happen. If its a no go they won't go!!!!

[Maurice Chavez]

Their ''werk'' huh? With spelling like that you should apply for a CAA job, man. Job guaranteed!

[WhinerLiner]

Seems clear enough that the CAA is using this as a publicity stunt. This is a not the first time they have ambushed their opponent (or is that customer) with an ill considered move and then run off with glee to the press trying to claim the glory while everybody is inconvenienced. If there was any level of oversight then any shortcomings could have been addressed without taking drastic action like this. But there’s not. There are lots of meetings, plenty of leave, team building days, more meetings and God knows what else but nary is a proper days work done.

The CAA is so incompetent they can't answer the telephone reliably, but today they are the bastions of safety? What a joke.

Not to mention how well they do whenever their standards are checked. Was that another extension you guys needed to try meet the FAA standards given to you 5 years ago?

Zakes you are pathetic. Your organisation is pathetic. Your standards are non-existent. And your decision to fight your fight with NW will only damage the industry that WE PAY YOU to promote.

[Maurice Chavez]

Well said WhinerLiner , couldn't agree with you more! Time for the Nationwide boys and girls to go back to ''werk''.

[fluffyfan]

Johannesburg - Nationwide's aircraft will remain grounded until the airline has fixed deficiencies within its maintenance section, the SA Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) said on Friday.

The CAA suspended approval for the airline's aircraft maintenance organisation from midnight on Thursday, said CAA chief executive officer Zakes Myeza.

It had also suspended the certificates of airworthiness of Nationwide's fleet of 16 aircraft - twelve 737-200s, five 727s and one 767.

If the airline did not comply, its licence would be revoked altogether.

"It was unavoidable," said Myeza.

He said the suspension arose from the airline's failure to comply with an airworthiness directorate issued in September and subsequent audits of its compliance.

"We cannot afford to be reckless on this because we are dealing with human lives," said CAA executive legal manager Ntheri Magoai.


four engine jock.............I sh1t you not, but that was a while ago, things have changed since then and that’s due to the Pilots standing up and saying no, but it happened and my reason for mentioning it is that VB takes shortcuts, its a known fact. I think people should be objective on this one, its no use calling the CAA crap, for once they may have done something correctly, its all for the best I say, Nationwide maintenance can only catch a wake up from this and sort themselves out, it will be to the benefit of the company ultimately and the people who fly with them

[LJP]

I think the grounding of NW can be termed a masterstroke of misdirection on the part of our overly reactive (as opposed to pro-active) CAA

[boypilot]

MEL never had any value at NTW - afraid to burst your bubble but NTW captains are all to frequently asked to turn on their phones on the flight deck during a technical delay - VB on the line.

All to often snags transposed to servicable aircraft so that an expired DA can be cleared and a new one opened up on the now unservicable aircraft.

This practice has been going on for years.

Specifics of other maintenance deficiencies can be told by the dozen by many current NTW drivers and ex NTW drivers and recited all too often.Where there's smoke .........

To ty and blame SAA for this is utter C:mad:p!

Well done CAA !

About time pilots, especially NTW pilots, got some much needed support on maintenance issues from the regulator .

[Whenwe]

You are right P3, Know of a case where a captain was ordered to leave the aircraft and find his own way home, which might have been CPT. He deleted the snag!

I can assure you that before CAA took that dramatic step they would have consulted their own effecient legal system. This will end up in court, they know that, and they had better have their p's and q's lined up.

For all those caught in the flak, I am really sorry and I hope it all works out for you.

[Fliterisk]

Ok so its all a conspiracy theory then... BUT...

What if the CAA are correct? They are damned if they do and damned if they dont.:uhoh::uhoh::uhoh:

The rumours of NTW losing the engine at FACT are going wild and depending on who you speak to maintenance comes up more than once. This, in addition to the maintenance rumours of the airline in general, I am inclined to side with the CAA. What if there were fatalities in CT... would everyone be singing a different tune????:ugh:

Timing aside, how would you feel if there was an accident and the CAA decided to leave it until after Christmas? So the CAA did it now... when is the right time exactly?

We bitch and moan when we have a CAA who does nothing, and now we bitch and moan when they ground an airline which in their opinion may be unsafe due to maintenance issues.
This forum is full of moaning about airlines / charter company's. Maintenance comes up more than once, and I dont think anyone has been immune. Why moan when the CAA may be doing something right - IRRESPECTIVE of the motives... and timing. :*:*:*:*:*:=:=:=:sad:

Just spoken to a mate of mine who works at NTW. Writing was on the wall, the perception is that it was inevitable, and the feeling is that they are surprised that it took this long... good luck to all pilots and staff...:ooh:

[Q4NVS]

WTF have journos got to do with the situation ?

Read the article below and decide for yourself. The APU especially gave me sleepless nights...

SA aviation under the spotlight

ÜGEN VOS

JOHANNESBURG – The Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) cannot guarantee there will be no further aviation mishaps during this festive season, but believes it has taken all proper precautionary measures to ensure smooth flights for commuters.

November has proven to be a turbulent period for the aviation industry in SA, with many of the nation’s top airlines lambasted by both politicians and the media following recurring reports of technical difficulties on flights.
Repeated assurances by the Civil Aviation Authority and the various airlines that all is business as usual, and that recent problems have been overexposed in the media, seem to have done little to dampen the debate.
“I cannot say there will be no incidents in December,” said CAA spokesman Phindiwe Gwebu recently, when quizzed about the country’s recent aviation safety track record.

The Democratic Alliance (DA) also entered the fray, expressing doubts about South African Airways Technical’s (SAAT) ability to fulfil its maintenance contracts.

DA spokesman on Public Enterprises Manie van Dyk said cursory investigations had revealed the majority of the country’s domestic airlines made use of SAAT, and a number of foreign airlines were serviced by SAAT.
This meant a staggering 71% of all technical incidents in SA airspace occurred on airlines that had fixed servicing and maintenance contracts with SAAT.

Van Dyk stressed that air traffic – and the accompanying technical burden on the South African aviation industry, was likely to swell during the run-up to the 2010 Fifa World Cup.

“The popularity of air travel is on the increase, and it will be of great importance that SAAT’s service facilities and service levels are beyond reproach,” he argued.

A timeline of scares in the skies

* NOVEMBER 2: Plane goes off the runway at Cape Town International airport. Flights delayed.

* NOVEMBER 7: Nationwide Boeing 737 makes emergency landing at Cape Town International after losing an engine during takeoff.

* NOVEMBER 8: Aircraft makes emergency landing on a farm road in Zonkizizwe (Heidelberg).

* NOVEMBER 10: CAA grounds Nationwide 737-200s pending inspections. CAA also receives reports from SAA, Comair, Interair, Star Air Cargo.

* NOVEMBER 12: Kulula aircraft turns back to Jhb due to low air pressure warning; lands with only one engine.

* NOVEMBER 13 : CAA will not extend directive to inspect Boeing 737-200 class to other aircraft.

* NOVEMBER 15: Trade Union Solidarity sounds warning on aviation safety, effect of planned retrenchments at SAA Technical on skills levels.

* NOVEMBER 16: Mango aircraft forced to turn back to Durban International due to problem with satellite communication device.

* NOVEMBER 20: SAA Express flight to Namibia turns back; Kulula aircraft loses power in auxiliary unit used to start up plane’s engine.

* NOVEMBER 21: Two incidents (delay- technical difficulties; plane diverted) not reported to CAA.

* NOVEMBER 23: Kulula flight MN913 cancelled due to technical difficulties ; SAA flight to East London turned back after bird blown into engine. CAA says media is giving too much attention to technical issues.

* NOVEMBER 26: Passengers on SAA plane moved to another flight due to problem with navigation system.

I'd say as much as they had to do with the wrecking of Bob Skinstad's rugby career a few years ago, as well as those of many Springbok coaches.

Back to the topic: I'm with CAA on this one.

[supatiger]

Maybe SACAA should not even be in the flying game!:hmm:
Well, they have never heard of the shear bolts that can make an engine fall off the wing, pylon and all if the vibration level get too high.



Give me a break!



If the SACAA had not done anything, then we should all be complaining, we all as SA pilots get painted with the same brush in the world market, I am glad that they are even in a round about way protecting my reputation as a SA pilot.

If they had let this continue, where would SA aviation be when an aircraft falls out the sky with a whole bunch of Amarican and British tourists on board.

[Maurice Chavez]

Glad to hear the majority here is with the CAA, especially when nobody here knows exactly why the CAA has grounded NTW. Think before you say, or write something dumb!

[supatiger]

Watta winner:}:}

[GooffBall]

It's interesting to see how many many people see "conspiracy" all the time. The fact is Nationwide has been lucky to operate up to now. There have been numerous occasions where their AMO licence needed to be withdrawn, but lifelines where given every time.......by CAA Senior Managers and GM.

VB has been cutting corners for years. Even fired QA personnel because they did not want to sign off on non-conformances. I wonder sometimes if there weren't backhands towards certain CAA officers......otherwise they would have been out of business years ago. How they were allowed to operate for so long baffles me.

NW has been roumered to use "bogus parts" for years. At least now we know that "possible unsafe aircraft" aren't carrying people around.....for now!

[Jamex]

With all the talk about MEL's being disregarded and Captains being threatened with dismissal, I only hope the crew on the NW flight which lost an engine out of CT were not forced into something like this. It would really be a nasty one to do such a good job and then still find yourself being nailed! In that case VB can expect their entire pilot pool to get together and speak as one which could result in NW disappearing off the scene. This is not what one wants. Rather lets see NW stand up out of this mess, get their house in order and continue in the proper fashion. I dont want to see good pilots without work but I also dont want unsafe aircraft overhead carrying loved ones. I'm for the pilots here. Best wishes and may there be a happy ending to this.

[Woof etc]

My gutfeel would be with the CAA on this one - my only question would be: Why only now and why such drastic measures?

Surely steps to address deficiences over the number of years that Nationwide has been operating would have been more appropriate?

The CAA's function is to audit operators to make sure that they meet the prescribed standards - suddenly withdrawing the airline's AOC is as much an indication of failings in the CAAs oversight function as it is of failings in the airline itself.

[Maurice Chavez]

From the CAA website:

MEDIA RELEASE FRIDAY, 30 NOVEMBER 2007
THE SA CIVIL AVIATION AUTHORITY GROUNDS NATIONWIDE AIRCRAFT
The South African Civil Aviation Authority (SACAA) is hereby announcing that with effect from
midnight, 29 November 2007, the approval for the Nationwide Aircraft Maintenance Organization
(AMO) has been suspended in terms of Part 145 of the Civil Aviation Regulations. This action
has been necessitated by the inability of the AMO to demonstrate full compliance with the
applicable Civil Aviation Regulations of 1997 as amended and thereby is unable to guarantee
continued safety to an acceptable or required level.
Furthermore, the SACAA also confirms the suspension of the Certificates of Airworthiness of
aircraft maintained by the AMO in terms of Part 21, effective midnight 29 November 2007. As a
result of this action the aircraft that constitute the Nationwide air fleet will not be permitted to
undertake any further flights until their airworthiness status has been verified.
The SACAA would like to assure the public that the above decision was reached after the
SACAA conducted a rigorous audit of the AMO in an effort to confirm its compliance with
applicable regulations. The AMO was unable to satisfy the Authority of its capability to continue
maintaining the aircraft to a standard commensurate with the requirement of the Civil Aviation
Regulations (CARs).
The regulations require that the AMO maintain the aircraft in accordance with the manufacturers’
requirements and any other requirement imposed by the South African Regulations which would
be consistent with International Best Practice.
The decision was taken by SACAA in the interest of continued aviation safety in the country.
Whilst this will result in an inconvenience to passengers, and this is very much regretted, our
view is that safety cannot be compromised.
- ends -

[Gyro Nut]

Apparently about 10-15 years ago, after a spate of engine separations on B737-200's, the bolts were changed by Boeing to a slightly revised design.

Nationwide apparently failed to ensure that their aircraft that they operate now had these revised bolts. They are very expensive, and in typical Nationwide fashion, they didn't install them. The CAA did warn them to comply with Boeing AD's, and they didn't listen...Can't say they weren't warned.

[beechbum]

Since conspiracies are being bantered about...any truth in the rumour that the head of NTW AMO jumped ship and is now working for 1 Time? Maybe some sort of comeback on his part.....!!!
And guys as Fluffyfan put it SAA has got better things to do right now than force an airline to be grounded.........well I should hope so anyway!

[Bobbejaan]

:rolleyes:Its astounding how anything can be turned into a SAA bashing thread. :rolleyes:

[jimmythegong]

Shades of Concorde!!!!

[Yossarian]

Very sorry for the guys and gals involved.......but probably overdue.

If only CAA could act without needing such provocation and also do it without being hypocritical.

[FR&ASS.]

This to me, looks like a mistaken identity and delayed action on the part of the SACAA. I had officially requested the grounding of the congoleses' "nations" Boeing at Lanseria during October, (which nobody knows why they didn't), but now they ground the whole Boeing fleet of Nationwide at the end of November.

:confused:

[charterguy]

It's the NEW South Africa. Wouldn't have anything to do with the fact that the airline is run by 'whites' ? Maybe they need to hire a few more PDIs ?

[Siguarda al fine]

Have it on good authority that NW will be flying by Monday and I hope its true. I feel for those great people that work for the best airline in RSA.

[Goffel]

Charterguy.

It has nothing to do with the colour of the people who are running the company nor the colour of who owns the company.

It is all about safety.

What some people dont understand, is that it is easy to sit on the fence and bleat like lambs about the doings and goings of a company, but not one of them who shout so loud will put anything on paper.

So now do you expect the CAA or any other institution to go running into an organisation with a rumour....no, they are not stupid as they will end up in court on the wrong side of a law suite.

This time, I believe, someone put it on paper and then CAA acted.

Oh, and by the way, I do believe CAA have pilots flying for Nationwide on a programme which has been running for 18 months, (and just so that you dont start the next rumour, they are not white pilot's).....

Goffel..:ugh:

[sticktime]

:cool: Well its done ! Just hope that it is VB that takes the brunt of this and not the Guy's an Gals, who actually make the airline what it is, as pax see it (saw it) while VB skimps and scrapes then races his Porshe on weekends! Trust all is good for the 'wekas' in the end ;)

[asianeagle]

:rolleyes:Its astounding how anything can be turned into a SAA bashing thread. :rolleyes:


cos its fun!:}

[fluffyfan]

I hope the story about pirated parts is not true, if it is thats grounds for jail time

[Rabscuttle]

My theory why the CAA took such belated drastic action:

Boeing have a reputation to protect. They can't allow their airplanes to be perceived to be falling out the sky. The CAA have been taking stick from the FAA in the recent audit, so the pressure on the CAA could possibly have come from Boeing!

[ST1]

As a ntw pilot, some truths, I would not, nor have been asked to fly in contradiction to the MEL. VB has not threatened anyone I know to fly in the 2 years I have been there. Boeing have said that there was no operator compliance issues in the engine seperation saga.

Obviously there is a lot going on behined the scenes at the AMO that we are not privy to.

[wilford@global]

have it on good authority, that the Nationwide Pilots , are on leave until further notice.Monday wont happen

[Maurice Chavez]

You have that right. We're all on leave untill next friday. As stated above, I also have never been forced to fly beyond the MEL.

[JG1]

On leave? Like, free leave? Or is VB taking this opportunity to shave some annual leave from you all?

[B Sousa]

no, they are not stupid as they will end up in court on the wrong side of a law suite.
Excuse me?? Goffel we forget so soon about the Brothers Gary at the Cape Waterfront. That operation have had the CAA handed their a$$ on a platter more than one time...........AND its still operating without, this and that. (Necessary Paperwork that others are required to have)
Nice of you to stick up for the CAA, but it would be also real nice to find out exactly why an entire Airline was shut down. As mentioned It seems not just a -200 problem. CAA?, FAA?, Manufacturer? anyone in the industry has Reps working DAILY with these companies, or at least should. Just to avert action such as this.
WHA Hoppen?? somebody drop de ball? Nationwide??, CAA??

[sticktime]

Is R.VP still incharge of the AMO ? We all give VB the lip, but he is also a very mech minded guy, and I doubt very much that he would agree to something that could/would go badly wrong if not corrected.

[Shrike200]

I have no doubt that the 'enforced leave' will be taken from the Nwide pilots leave time. This after being told via the usual memo that 'no leave applications over December and January will be approved.' Typical Nationwide HR...

Anyway, a brief consultation with my usual sources shows absolutely no 'requests' to depart from the MEL, and if the AMO is doing anything dodgy, the pilots don't know about it. The engineers are generally overworked as well.

Frankly, to me it smacks of the whole Nwide management culture - pare everything down to the bone (the marrow more likely), then expect people (pilots, cabin crew, and engineers) to just 'make a plan' on the day, this DESPITE managements absolutely idiotic strategies (Worldspan, BOB, truly crap HR and roster policies, fighting recognition of a union, inability to listen, failure to consult with ANYBODY prior to implementing anything, poor training of staff, the list goes on and on and on.....)

They (management) reap what they sow - it's just a pity that the people who will be the most affected are the people who made it work on a daily basis up till now. The crew have my respect - nobody flies a dodgy aircraft on purpose, and they are truly the last defenders of safety at Nationwide.

[alexmcfire]

Will they recoup or are they destined to start over in places like DRC?

[Buzz Control]

JOHANNESBURG Nov 30 Sapa

NATIONWIDE GROUNDING HITS 6,000 PASSENGERS

The grounding of Nationwide aircraft affected 6,000 passengers on
Friday alone, the airline said.

It had to cancel 60 flights -- including one to London on Friday
night and two to Livingstone, in Zambia -- said Nationwide sales and
marketing manager Charmaine Thome.

Also cancelled were the airline's domestic flights to and from Cape
Town, Durban, Port Elizabeth, George, Mpumalanga and Johannesburg, she
said.

"We are really sorry (the passengers) are going through this
experience," she said.

The airline was "truly upset" at what had happened. It is
"definitely not what we want."
Thome said the only airlines "accepting Nationwide paper", or
prepared to give seats to Nationwide ticket-holders were British
Airways and its affiliate Kulula.com -- and then only depending on
availability.

She said Nationwide was offering full refunds to passengers unable
to get alternative transport. It was also offering to change their
tickets for flights on later dates.

The SA Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) suspended its approval of the
airline's in-house aircraft maintenance organisation (AMO) from
midnight on Thursday, CAA chief executive officer Zakes Myeza said on
Friday.

It also suspended the certificates of airworthiness of Nationwide's
fleet of 16 aircraft -- 12 Boeing 737-200s, three Boeing 727s and one
Boeing 767.

"It was unavoidable," Myeza said at a press conference at CAA
headquarters in Midrand.

"We cannot afford to be reckless on this one because we are dealing
with human lives," added CAA legal executive manager executive Nheri
Magoai.

The inconvenience might well be to the benefit of the airline's
passengers, he said.

Nationwide was informed of the decision early on Thursday night.

Airline officials immediately entered into talks with the CAA in a bid
to resolve the matter, but had not reached a solution by 1am.

The airline intended appealing against the decision, said Thome.

CAA aircraft safety executive manager Obert Chakarisa said the
grounding resulted from its consideration of the airline's application
for the annual renewal of its AMO licence.

Instead of approving the licence, the CAA issued an interim renewal
until December 20, conditional on answers to maintenance concerns.

It was coincidental that, during this audit process, an engine fell
off a Nationwide Boeing 737-200 at Cape Town International Airport on
November 7.

The Johannesburg-bound Boeing 737 lost one of its two engines during
take-off from Cape Town airport, yet managed to land safely half an
hour later.

The airline failed to adequately implement three airworthiness
directives issued in response to the incident, said Chakarisa.

These included requirements issued by the manufacturer after four
similar incidents in the United States, which called for, among others,
the refitting of certain bolts on the engine mounting and the
overhauling of certain other components.

While the CAA would not indicate whether pirate parts were found to
have been used on the Nationwide aircraft, it did disclose that the
bolts fitted were "untraceable".

Chakarisa would not comment on whether this type of problem arose
from the emerging phenomenon of low-cost flying.

"They (Nationwide) were 100 percent aware of what had to be
undertaken; what the airworthiness directives were; what parts had to
be replaced," said Myeza.

Magoai said Nationwide would have to prove compliance and the
airworthiness of each aircraft verified before the suspension was
lifted. He would give no indication of how long this could take.

Should Nationwide fail to comply, its licence could be revoked
altogether.

Asked whether the CAA had given any thought to the possibility of
the grounding putting Nationwide out of business, Magoai said: "We do
sympathise with them. It's just an unfortunate event. We hoped we could
avoid it."
Chakarisa said this was not the first time the CAA had grounded an
airline.

The much smaller airlines Nel Air and Execu Aerospace were grounded
over maintenance concerns and two more small airlines would be
suspended in the next week, he said, but would not name them.

Thome said on Friday that Nationwide had not informed passengers of
the grounding on Thursday night as it had hoped to have the matter
resolved by Friday morning.

"We didn't want to panic people unnecessarily. It is the first day
of the holidays. It is a very busy time of year for us," she said.

[/quote]

[sticktime]

:eek: I think the future of Nationwide, if they get back on line, is in the hands of the public, and that is not good !! Alot of inocent people will loose there jobs.:cool:

[Gymnogene]

It is interesting that all these maintenance non-compliances were only found when representatives from the NTSB and Boeing got involved with the investigation into the engine loss.
IATA have also got egg on their faces as they gave Nationwide their IOSA certification recently with these non-compliances in place. Maybe IATA should audit their audit teams. :hmm:

[Romeo E.T.]

from News24.com

Nationwide could shut down
02/12/2007 09:12 - (SA)


S'Thembiso Hlongwane

Johannesburg - Speculation is rife that domestic airline Nationwide may be forced to close shop.

On Friday Nationwide staff scrambled to deal with irate passengers left stranded at airports after the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) had suspended the airline's Aviation Maintenance Organisation (AMO) licence late last on Thursday, effectively grounding all its aircraft.

The airline had hoped to have dealt with the matter before Friday and had not informed passengers of the problem, which led to scores of people, including children going on school trips, being left stranded and frustrated at airports.

Guy Lietch of SA Flyer magazine says Nationwide CEO Vernon Bricknell, who started the company from humble beginnings as a one-man charter operator for the UN on food flights into Africa, could be forced to close shop.

"It's unlikely that Nationwide will recover from CAA's decision. It will take sometime before they can return to the sky, maybe two or three months if they are lucky to find AMO at short notice," says Lietch.

Lietch says with the airline having already cancelled 60 flights, including one to London and two to Livingstone, Zambia, on Friday night, it will be extremely difficult to return to profitability.

"The big question is, can Bricknell manage to keep the company afloat while paying all his staff on time?" asks Lietch.

Phindiwe Gwebu, CAA spokesperson, said on Saturday that a part collected from a Nationwide plane's engine could not be traced to its original supplier, fuelling speculation that some fitted parts could be counterfeit.

"At this stage we are still investigating and cannot say if all the parts are original or pirated."

She said the aviation authority had been forced to ground the planes because the airline's maintenance division had failed to comply with safety regulations.

Last month Nationwide flight CE723 lost part of its engine as it was taking off from Cape Town Airport.

And Nationwide's problems could increase.

On Saturday Comair, which operates Kulula.com and British Airways in South Africa, withdrew its earlier offer to help fly stranded Nationwide passengers.

Comair officials said the decision was taken after Nationwide's tickets were declared void by the International Air Transport Association.

In a letter to customers posted on Nationwide's website on Friday, Bricknell tried to reassure travellers that they could re-book their flights or have their tickets refunded.

"With immediate effect, all flights have been suspended until further notice," said Bricknell in the letter.

"We have approached the CAA for further details and guidance in respect of any actions they would like us to implement that would enable them to reinstate the AMO's licence, at which point normal operations will resume."

Dirk Hermann, a spokesperson for the trade union, Solidarity, says Nationwide, which employs more than a 1 000 people, is in serious trouble.

"The situation looks bleak. Our lawyers are busy preparing a business rescue plan. We are worried about the well-being of the company and the staff," says Hermann.

By late on Saturday Bricknell could not be reached for comment.

__________________

[Romeo E.T.]

STATEMENT BY THE CEO, NATIONWIDE AIRLINES

01 December 2007 – 16:45


STATEMENT BY THE CEO, NATIONWIDE AIRLINES

01 December 2007 – 16:45

On behalf of Nationwide Airlines, I would like to apologise to our customers and the travelling public who have experienced inconvenience and distress since Friday, the first day of the busy summer holiday season.

The entire management team and staff have been working around the clock to resolve the crisis with the aim of resuming normal flight operations as quickly as possible.

So far we have had to cancel more than 90 flights serving Johannesburg, Durban, Cape Town, Port Elizabeth, Mpumalanga, George, Livingstone and London-Gatwick. This has impacted about 9,000 travellers.

While our services are disrupted, our ticket-holders have the option of re-booking or obtaining full refunds.

Since establishing Nationwide Airlines in 1995 I have regarded the safety of our passengers, staff and equipment as my top priority. Safety is not negotiable, has not and will not be compromised in any way.

As part of our ongoing safety programme, in 2006, we underwent the International Air Transport Association Operational Safety Audit (IOSA). IOSA is an audit of the management and control processes of an airline based on exacting standards developed in cooperation with the International Civil Aviation Organisation (ICAO - the UN body which sets global standards for civil aviation) and regulatory bodies including US Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), Australia’s Civil Aviation Safety Authority, Transport Canada and Europe’s Joint Aviation Authority. It is one of a number of measures designed to ensure high levels of safety. Nationwide passed this audit and received its IOSA certificate in April.

After several requests, last night we received a communiqué from the South African Civil Aviation Authority specifying its concerns. In the main, the CAA’s concerns relate to the administrative systems in our AMO. The CAA has not raised any concerns that relate directly to any of our aircraft.

Most of these issues were raised by the CAA after their initial audit in September following which we implemented the necessary remedial actions.

At that time, we undertook to submit a thorough action plan to the CAA before the close of business on 30 November 2007, ie. yesterday. As promised, we sent this action plan to the CAA yesterday for its consideration.

In addition, we have also advised the CAA of the various improvements and enhancements we have made to our AMO over the past three months and other steps we have taken to ensure the continued integrity of our operation.

They include:

The appointment of a new Accountable Manager for the AMO at the end of October.
The appointment of a new Planning Manager and a new Reliability Specialist.
All life-limited components – including all safety/emergency equipment were checked and found to be within their limits.
Updating our component life-monitoring data capture software with greater audit capabilities.
The establishment of a Corporate Quality Department to exercise quality management across every aspect of the company, including maintenance.
Labelling of our grease guns to provide clear indications of when they were last filled and the batch information of the specific grease.
Introduced a new system for checking the personal tool boxes of engineers after each aircraft’s maintenance check instead of once per month.
Disposal of unserviceable electrolyte battery cells in a controlled manner.
New storage and issuing arrangements for distilled water (used for batteries).
New storage and record-keeping procedures for batteries.
Verification of all aircraft Release for Service certificates and the correction of one certificate which was found to have been incorrectly completed.
On the 23rd November 2007 and following inspections by the SA CAA of our Aviation Maintenance Organization (AMO), the license for the AMO was renewed and issued.

From the 23rd November until the 29th November 2007 no further inspection was performed by the SA CAA, nor were we advised of any concerns on the part of the CAA.

Subsequently, the suspension of our AMO license on the 29th November late at night, and thus the grounding of our fleet came as a total surprise. Only following the suspension of our license on the 30th November, did the SA CAA inform us that they apparently had certain concerns relating to maintenance work conducted subsequent to the issuance of an Airworthiness Directive as issued by the authority on the 9th November.

As a result, allegations have been made in various media reports that we have fitted ‘bogus’ or ‘pirate’ parts to our aircraft. These allegations are totally false.

Certain rumours have surfaced which we would like to address. Whilst technical, the following information is complete and accurate:

On the 7th November whilst departing from Cape Town, Nationwide Airlines lost the number two engine on one of the Boeing 737-200 aircraft. As a result of the incident the SA CAA promulgated an Airworthiness Directive (AD) which called for a “Non Destructive Testing (NDT)” inspection of all the engine mountings and attachment bolts. The SA CAA also required that all operators of the B737-200 verify if all the previously issued FAA AD’s and Boeing Service Bulletins (SB) had been complied with.
This South African AD was carried out on Nationwide 737-200s and detailed confirmations were provided to the SA CAA on completion of each aircraft. During an inspection of the records it was noted that the technician who signed-off the AD on the last aircraft did not enter the part number and serial number of one of the cone bolts on the required form. When this was brought to our attention, we immediately issued an instruction for the removal of that particular cone bolt. On inspection of the cone bolt we noted that half of the serial number and part number were no longer visible under normal light as the indelible ink could no longer be read, however under a bright light, the full part number and serial number could be identified by the footprint of the ink into the metal. This cone bolt was taken to the SA CAA and shown to the relevant inspector. We also produced the relevant records of the NDT inspection for this cone bolt. As a result, a replacement cone bolt was installed to prevent any further confusion.
In 2005 we purchased a new hydrostatic bench test for the purpose of testing our oxygen bottles. This test bench was inspected and approved by the Civil Aviation Authority with the necessary certification issued. During our September 2007 audit we were informed that the CAA should not have originally certified this test bench without it first being certified by the Department of Labour. As the CAA had approved this installation, we were not aware that further approvals were required. As a result, the CAA suspended our ability to certify further testing on this unit until such time that we had achieved conformity with the Occupational Health and Safety Act. This we accepted and discontinued the use of the test facility pending approval from the Department of Labour. After the aircraft incident of engine separation, we had a further full inspection of the AMO by the SA CAA. During this audit it was brought to our attention that our corrective action was not deemed satisfactory as we had not recalled the bottles which had been tested during the previous two years prior to our certification being suspended. It should be noted that our action plan submitted to the authority at the time of the audit was accepted – this did not call for the recall of such bottles. Subsequently, the bottles that had been certified by hydrostatic test bench were withdrawn from service.
Nationwide does not use “pirate” parts. We only purchase and use legitimate aircraft components from authorised suppliers with the required release documentation.
IATA has not withdrawn Nationwide’s membership to the association. It has simply suspended our participation in its billing and settlement programme which is a mechanism for exchanging money between airlines – this is normal protocol in such circumstances and does not represent abnormal activity by IATA.
Nationwide is not bankrupt and has not filed for liquidation. We are a financially secure and sound company.
With regard to our engine separation incident of 07 November 2007, we have been informed that the preliminary report from the University of Pretoria (Metallurgic Facility) found a recent fatigue crack which caused the failure of the aft primary engine mount and thus the engine separation. I would like to place on record that this bolt was by no means a ‘bogus bolt’ as reported in the media. We are in possession of all relevant NDT records which substantiate the correct testing of all our bolts at the time of engine installation. Our bolt failure is not an isolated incident. This is the 6th Boeing 737 (including major US airlines) which incurred the same problem resulting in the number two engine separation.

Nationwide makes a vital contribution to the South African and regional economy, providing much-needed airlift capacity for people and goods and supporting trade, tourism and economic development. We remain committed to serving our customers and the region with safe, reliable and affordable air transport.


Issued by:
Vernon Bricknell
Chief Executive Officer, Nationwide Airlines

[flyboy2]

Johannesburg, South Africa
02 December 2007 11:22
Grounded carrier Nationwide has leased an aircraft from Dutch airline KLM to fly passengers to London on Sunday night, said the South African Civil Aviation Authority (CAA).
However, Nationwide would have to prove that this aircraft complied with civil aviation safety requirements before it would be allowed to fly, said CAA spokesperson Phindiwe Gwebu.
She said three CAA inspectors were examining the aircraft on Sunday morning to ensure it was properly maintained.
CAA aircraft safety executive manager Obert Chakarisa was going to OR Tambo International Airport himself to inspect the aircraft too, she said.
Nationwide was grounded on Friday after the CAA suspended its approval of the airline's aircraft-maintenance organisation and the certificates of airworthiness of Nationwide's fleet of 16 aircraft -- twelve 737-200s, three 727s and one 767.
The airline lodged an appeal against the decision with acting CAA commissioner Gawie Bestbier on Friday.
Gwebu confirmed that the CAA had received the appeal, but said the CAA was not finished with it yet.
Bestbier had told Nationwide "exactly what he wants them to do to comply", she said.
"We are still waiting for their response."
Gwebu also confirmed that the CAA had received a request from Nationwide to use an aircraft leased from KLM to fly passengers to London on Sunday.
Although KLM took responsibility for this aircraft, Nationwide was nonetheless required to prove its airworthiness.
Nationwide flies to London and Livingstone, in Zambia, and between Johannesburg, Cape Town, Durban, Port Elizabeth, George, Mpumalanga.
Although Comair initially offered to honour Nationwide tickets on British Airways and kulula.com flights, it later backtracked.
This after Nationwide's tickets were declared void by the International Air Transport Association and it was suspended as a participating carrier in the Bank Settlement Plan, which distributes funds to travel agents for bookings made with airlines.
Nationwide was offering full refunds to passengers or to change their tickets for flights on later dates.
Describing the grounding as "unavoidable", the CAA said on Friday that it could not afford to be reckless as it was dealing with human lives.
The CAA said the grounding was not a result of the drama at Cape Town International Airport on November 7, when a Nationwide Johannesburg-bound Boeing 737 lost one of its two engines on take-off, yet managed to land safely half an hour later.
It was rather over maintenance concerns that arose during consideration of the airline's application for the annual renewal of its airline maintenance organisation licence.
The airline's failure to fix deficiencies identified during this process was compounded by its failure to comply with airworthiness directives issued in response to the engine incident, the CAA said.
It could give no indication of how long it might take the airline to meet the requirements needed for the lifting of the suspension, but warned that if it failed to do so its licence could be revoked altogether. -- Sapa
Source:http://www.mg.co.za/articlePage.aspx?articleId=326593&area=/breaking_news/breaking_news__national/

[E-tjops]

My heart goes out for all the honest hard working staff at Nationwide. Being a crewmember from the opposition, I do not wish it on anybody, especially just before the festive season. I can just imagine how tough must it be for you guys not knowing what you future holds. I REALLY hope Nationwide will be able to get themselves back in the air ASAP!!! Good luck and hang in there.:ok::ok::ok:

As for VB…hmmmmm. His initial statement concerning the B732 that lost a donkey a few weeks ago, was due to FOD, just confirmed what a BIG BULLSH:mad:TTER he is. Get your act together, you have the lives of hundreds of families in your hands.:=:=:=

[RunwayBlueOne]

At a press conference today he admitted that it was not FOD and he's hopeful that they will be flying by the end of the week.

[sticktime]

What are they trying to prove !!! All over a KLM aircraft :ugh: Sounds like a pub stunt to me, as if they they are going to find something on KLM ! Who do they think they are trying to fool :} I must admit Iv seen this type of thing when working in africa, and that was to try and get a bribe from the opperator, SO what now ?? :{ Where are we going....?...... South Africa 'O' South Africa ...............:(

[Jamex]

Nation Wide press statement extract
In 2005 we purchased a new hydrostatic bench test for the purpose of testing our oxygen bottles. This test bench was inspected and approved by the Civil Aviation Authority with the necessary certification issued. During our September 2007 audit we were informed that the CAA should not have originally certified this test bench without it first being certified by the Department of Labour. As the CAA had approved this installation, we were not aware that further approvals were required. As a result, the CAA suspended our ability to certify further testing on this unit until such time that we had achieved conformity with the Occupational Health and Safety Act. This we accepted and discontinued the use of the test facility pending approval from the Department of Labour. After the aircraft incident of engine separation, we had a further full inspection of the AMO by the SA CAA. During this audit it was brought to our attention that our corrective action was not deemed satisfactory as we had not recalled the bottles which had been tested during the previous two years prior to our certification being suspended. It should be noted that our action plan submitted to the authority at the time of the audit was accepted – this did not call for the recall of such bottles. Subsequently, the bottles that had been certified by hydrostatic test bench were withdrawn from service.

The part I find interesting is the fact that SACAA seem to be guilty of moving the goalposts! They make recommendations, then it becomes "eish actually this Hydrostatic Test Bench should not have been approved by us and now you may not use your already approved facility!" Then an action plan is submitted and approved and again "Eish, you did not withdraw the bottles already tested on your approved bench and, even though we approved your action plan where this discrepancy was clearly not handled, but we approved it anyway, you are still in contravention and we are now going to do you possibly irreparable damage which may even cause your demise, but thats your problem and not ours." Guys, this is really a worrying sign. If the CAA is going to blithely ignore their own mistakes and still penalise the operators, then ALL operators in SA have a huge problem looming. This is an abuse of power ranking with dictatorship.

[Woof etc]

Some observations:

Considering that failure of these cone bolts is a known factor (as pointed out by VB), surely these components would be under scrutiny for fatigue cracking (NDT inspections) How did the defective bolts slip through the system? -fatigue cracks take time to develop.

If the CAAs assertion that there were deficiencies in NW maintenance procedures, and considering that it was only a modicum of good luck and exemplerary flying by the aircrew that prevented a catastrophy, then the CAA failed completely in it's role of protecting the safety of the flying public. Why did it take a major incident to invoke CAA action? This indicates a complete failure of their auditing and oversight function.

A well worded statement from Nationwide (factual accuracy to be verified).

[flyknight]

E-tjops you've said it all. I feel for all the Nationwide employees. Unfortunately saftey in non-negotiable and sometimes you have to spend money to keep airplanes flying

[kaviation]

This is the biggest witch hunt! I hope VB fights this. To all the CE crew, hang in there.:\

[Shrike200]

I'm still not really sure why the AMO licence was suspended. The CAA blah blahed on about 'safety, lives at risk etc etc', but they haven't actually mentioned what specific issues they have with Nwides AMO, and what needs to be done to get things going again - or is it the 'non-identifiable parts' issue? VB seems to refute that - I must say, due to the technical nature of this, the press, and the public, clueless as they are, are just going to buy into the CAA actions, regardless of their merit. This whole issue is being muddied by CAA randomness. Maybe Nwide have some issues, but with our CAA, it's not so clear cut at all. And VB was right, this has occured before, and it wasn't detected then either. Maybe Boeing need to shorten the mounting bolt NDT inspection/replacement period? It's a pity VB punted that obvious FOD rubbish so soon after the accident.

[Antman]

The losers in all this are the poor employees.
I think its time VB stopped trying to pull the wool over everyone's eyes.
First the FOD story about the Cape Town incedent.
Now this
As part of our ongoing safety programme, in 2006, we underwent the International Air Transport Association Operational Safety Audit (IOSA). IOSA is an audit of the management and control processes of an airline based on exacting standards developed in cooperation with the International Civil Aviation Organisation (ICAO - the UN body which sets global standards for civil aviation) and regulatory bodies including US Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), Australia’s Civil Aviation Safety Authority, Transport Canada and Europe’s Joint Aviation Authority. It is one of a number of measures designed to ensure high levels of safety. Nationwide passed this audit and received its IOSA certificate in April.

It's an IATA audit, nothing to do with ICAO, from the IOSA website
The IATA Operational Safety Audit (IOSA) Programme is an internationally recognised and accepted evaluation system designed to assess the operational management and control systems of an airline. IOSA uses internationally recognised quality audit principles, and is designed so that audits are conducted in a standardised and consistent manner.
Maybe in a situations like these you need to be totally honest and avoid spin.

[Springola]

An IOSA certification is no walk in the park and I personally feel that the CAA have gone overboard in grounding Nationwide, especially their B767 operation. Also, the timing of the grounding is questionable. This probably has a lot more to do with the pressure the CAA is under from the FAA than anything else, and Nationwide is the sacrificial lamb.

There are many African operators flying into SA airspace with aircraft which would not qualify for Part 91 ops, let alone Part 121.

[Siguarda al fine]

This whole fiasco is a disgrace and a blight upon the industry, the CAA (Campaign Against Aviation ) have plunged to depths of moronic stupidity never before seen.
I am happy I took the decission to throw my CAA issued professional pilots license in the bin where it belongs with the morons that issued it.

[rockpecker]

On finals for 03L yesterday, seeing all the NTW aeries standing at the Equity hangars.... One of the saddest scenes I've seen in a long time. Really heartbreaking. They need to fly to "stay alive", as pilots do. Whatever all the elements causing this whole mess, whatever criticism there may be for VB, the whole operation does not deserve to die. I hope its sorted soon, and that there is still a chance for survival. Holding thumbs and praying for all you guys at NTW.

[fluffyfan]

Nationwide have had hard times before, and I am sure they will come out of this, however a little worrying was the poll on the News24 site concerning Nationwide.......thats not good, its taken Nationwide a long time to build there reputation.

[mary_hinge]

Preliminary investigations have discovered a fatigue crack in the aft engine mount of the Nationwide Airlines Boeing 737-200 which shed its right-hand powerplant on take-off last month.
The finding follows the South African civil aviation authority’s 29 November decision to ground the carrier pending airworthiness and maintenance checks. The airline has had to cancel more than 90 flights across its network.

[Siguarda al fine]

Quis custodiet Ipsos custodes?

[LittleMo]

Meeting called at 16:00 at Nationwide ops today to brief crew as to what the future holds...

[four engine jock]

I hope that all works out in the end. Vernon is a tuff guy and he knows how to fight.
Good luck!!!!!

[JetNut]

The writing is on the wall. What's it going to take to get the AMO up to standard? A lot of money. IATA has issued a warning that they will not endorse Nationwide tickets...in other words the company is not a solvent entity. If the international governing body is reluctant to back an airline, what can SACAA do other than scrutinise even further.

Rumour on the flight line from the engineers is that even the oil used in these aircraft have expired...dodgy operation to begin with. This airline should have closed down five years ago.

Drivers have little to worry about...SAA and Comair will have jobs for you guys and girls....drop off a CV.

[kaviation]

What a load of bull, where do you people get your info from!

[exflygirl]

I hope this gets resolved for all concerned. To the Pilots and Cabin Crew...it may seem bleak right now but every cloud has a silver lining. This may be the best thing that ever happened to you. It may force safety standards to be upped or it may force you to look elsewhere for employment where you will be treated with the respect you deserve. I do hope however that another competitor to SAA is not put out of business...that has happened way too many times in the past. Bricknell needs to pump a truckload of money into the maintenance...get it up to scratch...get the planes back in the air...make nice with the travelling public and then start treating his staff with a bit more love!

[slapfaan]

I hope that all works out in the end. Vernon is a tuff guy and he knows how to fight.
Good luck!!!!!

Four engine jock - VB is NASTY piece of work..and he deserves all that is coming to him now!!!

Years and years of UNDERPAYING crew..dodging and diving and trying to bribe the CAA ( BAC 1-11 oxygen saga) has now finally caught up with this moron!!!

He might know how to fight..but he's NOT going to win this round..

Good luck to all the crew though..as exflygirl says..there are PLENTY of jobs out there:ok:

[putt for dough]

So how did the meeting turn out?

[Baas]

:sad:

Quis custodiet Ipsos custodes?

Who will guard the guards..?

:ok:

[b730]

Jetnut said "........Drivers have little to worry about...SAA and Comair will have jobs for you guys and girls....drop off a CV."

It is good to know that, in your opinion, getting jobs is no problem. We are too light for SAA and Comair dont take direct entry Captains - so what do you have in mind for us Captains? Any constructive, real answers will be appreciated.

Regards

[kaviation]

Well said! :D

[expose_corrupt_DRC]

NATIONWIDE, our beloved airline that became the threat to the SA Government controlled expensive SAA who has a history of manupilating the domestic skies of South-Africa, many has fallen as victems of SAA over years, now Nationwide is their next target, its pur co-incedence that the CAA`s action against Nationwide were launched at the beginning of the festive season, now SAA charge whatever they want for passangers as their competition is grounded.

The CAA is so well controlled by government, they have double standards that is a mirror image of their politicians, facts is remember the very latest incident, the so called Boeing 707-12B, Reg,nr: 9Q-CLK a total wreck of rubbish belonging to Kabila with totally unsafe engines were given freedom of flight without airworthy certificates or logbooks into SA and landed on Lanseria, Mr.Rootman attached this aircraft, reported the unsafe wreck to CAA and requested it be grounded with the CAA, Rootman`s case is still under appeal and yet...CAA, the brilliant so called worried about Nationwide`s safety standards gave 9Q-CLK a total fu$%&*ed-up rubbish aircraft silver wings and permission to fly the aircraft illegally out of Lanseria, and the thieves were given royal treatment who actually stole the aircraft which is still under attachment without CAA doing anything, now this is an example Nationwide.... your`e dealing with more than what is on the table, this is more, your`e too much of opposition and in africa opposition is treated with zero respect, its a one man, one government, only us count thing your`e facing, go invest in Botswana, Swaziland, get your aircraft out in SA.
CAA....we are going to watch you act against all this flying coffins of African Governments coming into SA, and when the FIFA 2010 Soccer World Cup is hosted in SA,...ha ha ha if its hosted FIFA must be crazy out of their minds to allow the 2010 soccer world-cup be hosted in the crime ridden corrupt SA any case.

[JetNut]

a company is not a single man



Get with the programme Sig. NW is a company run by one man. You obviously don't know much about this company do you.

[saywhat]

Jetnut, VB may run the company, but there are hundreds of good people that work there that are facing some really hard times. Those people ARE the company!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My thoughts are with the staff of Nationwide. I hope that all works out for you as soon as possible......

[Siguarda al fine]

I belive that the CAA are totaly corrupt but not in the classic african way that we have all come to love and understand over the past 10 years or so. They are rotten to the core because not one of them meets the minimum standard for CAA personel set down by ICAO with the exception of perhaps the tea lady. If I was VB Id ask to see their CV's, ( as he is entitled to do ) and expose them for what they are; a herd of semi litterate inexperienced incompetents. At best they exhibit a cavalier attitude towards the truth and a total lack of moral fibre and have the credibility of a pack of rabid Jackals. If that is not bad enough they are self regulating with no outside policing other than the FAA who quite frankly dont give a damn about RSA citizens rights. So we have a inexperienced, unqualified, decietful, dishonset, self policing organsiation deciding on matters they know little about. At the heart of aviation is a whole load of "trust" as we cannot check everything everytime we have to trust it is as it is stated. How can we trust the CAA when they are hiding /lying as to the very fact they are unqualified for the work they they get paid to do? They put me in mind of the early days of the nazi party who had a similar cavalier attitude towards the truth and we all know what that led to. My advice to the CAA is "Get your own house in order before it implodes onto your thick skulls."

[Whenwe]

Sig, Whilst I agree with you in some aspects, we need to be specific.

The Commissioner, Gawie Bestbier, is good. There is still some good experience in the airworthiness department and for Gawie to support the decision; must mean something.

I also agree with Jetnut, unless you have been on the receiving end from VB, you would not know what he (Jetnut) is talking about.

[dudleydick]

Would this be relevant?


Pretoria - Just days after the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) temporarily suspended Nationwide airline's licence, a top CAA official has left under a cloud.
Sources told Beeld newspaper the contract of CEO Zakes Myeza was terminated on Monday. The announcement of his firing has been scheduled for Tuesday.
The reason for the move is not known. He had been in the post for about 18 months. CAA spokesperson Phindi Gwebu said: "I will release an announcement from the board on Tuesday."

[Siguarda al fine]

Whenwe; I have had a run in with VB, and I told him to stick his aircraft where the monkey sticks his nuts.
NW has the best aviators (I use the term Aviators to sperate them from run of the mill pilots AME's and CC ) in RSA on its books, and if it were a military organisation it would be equal to the SAS. There is a good reason for this, they have a strong leader, who sets the standards, and whats more is not affraid to uphold them. If a few slackers, no hopers, and momies boys get upset when they get RTU'd (as they do on any SAS selection course) so be it. Those failures should get over it and get a life, and take note that holding a grudge is a cancer in your soul, it will eat you up before you know it.
DUDLEYDICK; looks like either a rat abandoning a sinking ship or the Jackals are turning on each other!

[Shrike200]

Ok, ok, ten deep breaths all...

The writing is on the wall. What's it going to take to get the AMO up to standard? A lot of money. IATA has issued a warning that they will not endorse Nationwide tickets...in other words the company is not a solvent entity. If the international governing body is reluctant to back an airline, what can SACAA do other than scrutinise even further.

Rumour on the flight line from the engineers is that even the oil used in these aircraft have expired...dodgy operation to begin with. This airline should have closed down five years ago.

Jetnut, I'm sorry, but this is plain bollocks. Do you think this adds any value here?

For an alternate viewpoint, I'll try to summarise the latest Nwide internal letter explaining progress on this matter:

-VB says sorry, he understands the pressure on all of the crew and their families, working around the clock etc.

-CAA withdraws AMO certificate and Cert of Airworthiness for entire fleet late Thursday night.

-CAA provides lists of concerns late on Friday night. (The first time apparently, in conflict with their claims that Nationwide has known about everything for ages) Concerns relate to admin, labelling of tools, toolbox inspections, equipment labelling, procedures for storage and disposal of spare parts and consumables.

-An action plan as well as evidence of remedial steps was presented to the CAA w.r.t. all the items.

-The CAA did NOT raise any concerns w.r.t. the physical condition and fitness of Nationwide aircraft, the crew training, management, operational procedures etc.

-On Sunday they scrutinised the service history and current doc of the 767, including the docs of the previous owner of the aircraft. VB then mentions how surprised he was to see the CAA quoted in the newspapers as saying 'Nationwide could not even provide the most basic documentation re the 767', something he claims is complete B.S.

-The CAA also decided to announce that Nationwide was going to hire a 767 from KLM (complete bollocks apparently), adding pressure to call centres and causing further confusion amongst passengers.

-VB emphatically denies even coming close to smelling a pirate or untraceable part, ever, claiming to only use known parts from authorised distributors.

-ASATA and Comair are apparently also adding to the B.S. in the air by publicly stating that Nationwide has been ejected from IATA, which is not correct apparently. What has happened, is that Nationwide has been suspended from IATA's Billing and Settlement Programme, which is apparently standard when an airline suspends operations, and is done to protect IATA ticket sales funds. IATA have apparently issued a statement concerning Nationwide, clarifying Nationwides status, and assuring them of their continued support once ops recommence.

-VB also said that the company was financially sound, and capable of weathering the storm.

These things would have to be verified, but I must say that what comes from the CAA, and what comes from Nationwide are two entirely different things. IF VB is talking the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, then the CAA are clearly on a bit of a mission to bust them up. IF so, why? I'm certainly not going to accuse SAA or some other silly assumption, but this whole thing still smacks of 'ulterior motive' to me, from some or other bunch on high.

We have to seperate the 'VB sucks, good riddance, bunch of pirates' aspect from the CAA 'facts and omissions' aspect of this story. To the first camp, just remember, you're wishing for the unemployment of a thousand or so people just prior to the festive season. That's just plain wrong in my book. As I've said before, I've personally witnessed how efficiently the Nationwide crew have to be to get the job done, and I am very respectful.

Apparently their are some interesting points made in todays newspapers regarding both side.

[Shrike200]

To add, apparently the whole 'bogus parts' thing comes from one bolt (?) that had it's identifying number partly worn off after installation, and the engineer who fitted it had not noted the part number prior to fitment (an error, definitely). The part number was subsequently found on inspection under florescent light, as per Boeings instructions apparently. The CAA introduced the 'pirate/bogus part' term thereafter. Again, I hope the facts I have are correct.

[madherb]

NW is a company offering an air service, used by the fare-paying public.

SACAA is funded by the SA tax-payers (including NW passengers) functioning as an oversight and regulatory body.

In the interests of the fare-paying public and the taxpayers, I am of the opinion that the last audit report for NW's AMO renewal, plus NW's responses to the findings, be made public. After all, it is SAFETY we are concerned with - or is it?

People have a right to know what was found in the audit, and how NW proposes to implement appropriate remedial action.

Accusations, personal attacks and unfounded rumours form the gist of a large number of posts so far on this thread. While I appreciate the rumour aspect, surely the facts of the matter should now be put on the table?

After all, if non-compliances to safety issues are being hidden by NW, or if the CAA is indeed acting on a hidden agenda, we, the taxpayers and fare-paying public, have a right to know these things. Period.

[Maurice Chavez]

CAA sends fax late thursday night to ground NTW. A fax?? Which CAA in the world closes an airline's ops by fax? Then it does so a day before one of the bussiest days of the year for NTW. Grounds it's entire fleet by pulling the AMO, on claims it hasn't met or done anything to rectify the findings found in the last audit. NTW shows evidence of compliance but still isn't good enough. CAA makes claims that one the bolts used was untraceable, however that bolt was removed and shown to the CAA with a visible partnumber en serial number, CAA said then they're happy with it. CAA then starts to fine comb NTW maintenance, result, found the wrong grease in one the greaseguns. CAA spokewoman makes a statement on TV that she wouldn't fly nationwide as it's not safe, but she would if somebody else does NTW's maintenance oversight.

I don't think SAA or for that fact any other airline or maintenance organization is behind all this. However I do feel that the CAA has a personal vendetta here. Interesting to see that the CAA guy got fired today.......

[mactheknife]

If indeed there is no fire under the smoke, then why has Nationwide not sought immediate relief from the courts, for example in terms of an urgent interdict to allow them to continue operations.

After all, their very survival as a business is at stake!

What also gets me is that Nationwide were quite content to BS the public about the FOD theory when it was patently obvious that no seagull got sucked into that engine. Even the geniuses at CAA picked up on that and disagreed with that story very early on. But obviously the public will be far more "understanding and forgiving" of the FOD theory and the engine falling off "as designed" than the truth.

[Insane]

Sounds to me as though you have a few too many Zim CAA guys working SACAA!!:}

[Ricoffy]

I have flown with a few of the blokes a couple of years ago. They are extremely professional. Some of them even went overseas to fly for international carriers and obtained command on these birds.

Sure VB is not the most pleasant chap in the aviation industry (we who have met him know this first hand), but as was mentioned in a previous post, the people that matter are the staff. The stress on these folks must be unbearable.

The SACAA must have another motive. On ETV last night a SACAA woman was asked directly if she would fly NTW. Her responce was "If they sort out their problems I would fly" (Not her exact words). She then added (Her exact words) "but at the moment, I would not take that risk".

What a :mad: comment is that to make on the news. Does this SACAA woman know all the facts and what are the public going to think of NTW after this woman said this thing.

I hope for the public, and for the staff working for NTW they get airborne quickly.

[Shrike200]

...and thats my personal problem: Right or wrong, the CAA are taking every opportunity to absolutely kill Nationwide's credibility in the press. Just take a look at their manner of saying things and choice of words - it really seems like one way or another, they're trying to take them down.

[Ricoffy]

Shrike, I agree, but why and who is behind this. Could only be political, or is it the mentality that is going downhill in this country at the moment by government institutions.

[Shrike200]

Some more, from the quote re the CAA boss leaving:
By Staff Reporters and Sapa
The chief executive officer of the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA), Zakes Mayeza, is leaving the organisation and the commissioner of Civil Aviation, Gawie Bestbier, is relinquishing his post in the middle of the Nationwide airline crisis.
This comes as the CAA and the airline reached agreement on what was required to get the airline back in the air.
The agreement between Nationwide and the CAA was confirmed by both parties on Tuesday, but was overshadowed by confirmation that Mayeza was leaving the helm of the CAA after his contract ended.
(...Snip: some stuff from Nationwide saying how safe they're going to be now that they've been so thoroughly inspected...)
Meanwhile, an independent aviation specialist has described the grounding of the Nationwide fleet as an "overblown paper chase", slamming the CAA's insistence on being given documentation that they had already been given in the past.
The editor of World Air News, Tom Chalmers, said the reason that Nationwide was suspended had nothing to do with the engine incident.
"The CAA is claiming that the grounding was done because their paper work was not in order. From my knowledge everything is in order," said Chalmers.
"The CAA want paperwork and information about a 767 dating back years to when the aircraft was owned and operated by Air Canada," he said.
Chalmers said the CAA inspector who had reservations about whether Nationwide's engine bolts were genuine after an engine fell out did not know that the serial numbers were only visible under a special light.

Not that any of this is going to be widespread knowledge amongst the general public after the CAA have already got their knife in.

[Flightsimman]

It just goes to show how unprofessional the SACAA actually is!

They should remain silent until an investigation has concluded (here in Australia CASA would say "no comment" until an investigation has been completed).

By making "stupid" comments they are the ones that are opening "cans of worms" making people think that there maybe a few "hidden agendas" going on.

I say get Nationwide back in the air to secure the jobs of the fine folk at Lanseria and provide some competition against that "government owned" airline.
'
:ok:

[madherb]

I say get Nationwide back in the air to secure the jobs of the fine folk at Lanseria and provide some competition against that "government owned" airline.

There is competition from 1Time, Comair and Kulula. Strange how every thread manages to bash SAA, no matter what.............get a life, get with the thread.

[mactheknife]

Anyone know what the actual qualifications of these CAA inspectors are???

[kaviation]

Anyone know what the actual qualifications of these CAA inspectors are???

Your guess is as good as mine, some of these idiots worked for CE before.

[spacedaddy]

I've recently gone into real estate and for all those who believe the contradictions coming from the CAA I have a rather tall iron structure in France and a beautiful white mansion on the other side of the pond that I have exclusivity to sell, both at a great bargain.

[Siguarda al fine]

mactheknifeAnyone know what the actual qualifications of these CAA inspectors are???
They have nothing and thats the problem inexperienced unqualified = liars = taking tax payers money under false pretences. Close em down and hand it over to tha FAA.

[Preseated]

Ive cross posted this cos it seems relevent to this thread - hope thats OK guys :)
This was just up on The Times -
It all seems irrelevant now with all the news and un-news up to this point. This is a kangaroo court if ever Ive seen one - trial by media and turkeys.
Hasn't anyone heard of "no comment" - saves a lot of trouble
Umm - confusion - what confusion :ugh:
------------------------------------------

Media blackout on Nationwide Sapa Published dec 04, 2007
The South African Civil Aviation Authority and Nationwide Airlines have agreed to halt communication with the media over the grounding of the carrier.
They would no longer make independent statements to the press, but would speak jointly on the process should the need arise, the CAA and Nationwide said today.
This was "to avoid causing confusion", said CAA spokeswoman Phindiwe Gwebu.

[FlyItLikeARental]

they'll make joint comments from now on cause when this whole thing peters out you can be sure Vern and a team of rottweilers in suits will go after SACAA with teeth bared. For everything VB is, if it's because of CAA's incompetence and arrogance I for one hope he bites a chunk out of their asses.

[Ricoffy]

Totally agree. CAA qualifications = member of the ruling party. Must have at least grade 8 and been part of the struggle.:E

[beechbum]

NW has the best aviators (I use the term Aviators to sperate them from run of the mill pilots AME's and CC ) in RSA on its books, and if it were a military organisation it would be equal to the SAS
Chap having read your posts with much interest,I can't believe what complete and utter rubbish would come out of one mouth in such a short period of time! SAS.. Incredible!:ugh: And by the way no tax payers money goes toward the CAA....who if you cared to enquire is now a private entity! So be it!
And quite frankly with the tone and attitude of your posts in general I'm not surprised you had a run in with VB.....would have told you too, to take your monkey nuts and shove them!
And by the way if there are any discrepancies on NTW's behalf, the FAA, UK CAA and any other Aviation authority around the world would have done the same thing! Lets wait and see the outcome before we judge and point fingers even though at this stage we feel it is unjust as to what occurred recently.
Remember Valujet many years ago?......the same issues spring to mind here. Lets hope not but lets wait and see.........for the better!
To all the NTW guys.....good luck and hopefully we will see you in the skies very soon!

[Flightsimman]

Hey Madherb, I am not "bashing" SAA (they seem to be doing a great job of it themselves by the look of some of the posts on this website).

Actually I can't complain about SAA (I recently flew from Perth to Jo-Burg and on to Lagos and back and was very, very happy with the level of service they provided).

Shame that the flight attendants couldn't stop "bashing" their employer though.

:D

[Petrovsky]

Could it be that seniority of any person in CAA management is directly proportional to the seniority of membership in the ruling party....

[Maurice Chavez]

Just heard from Ops the idiots from the CAA released PBI. That's at least one. Hopefully the rest will follow soon.

[Siguarda al fine]

beechbum.
I take it from your name thats where you talk from, ie. your bum! a place a little lower than your brain cell ! I agree that the FAA would have acted if they had found things wrong at any carrier. BUT the FAA is manned with QUALIFIED, EXPERIENCED PEOPLE not UNQUALIFIED AND INEXPERIENCED IDIOTS POSING AS PEOPLE THAT ARE QUALIFIED !!!!!!!!!!!!!1 I say idiots, as only and idiot would have the temerity to carry out such an important job with out being QUALIFIED AND EXPERIENCED AS REQUIRED BY ICAO.
If YOU are a pilot YOU have to have a minimum of EXPERIENCE and be QUALIFIED to be allowed to fly.
How do you feel about having a license issued by people not QUALIFIED OR EXPERIENCED to issue it?
Make you feel all warm inside your beechbum eh?
As for comparing NW With the SAS I stand by that as they are the best I mean when you consider the whimps and no ambition morons who work in other companies like SAA. NW ARE THE ELITE. Now Get a life and a real job.

[MidmarMile]

Just read the latest post by Siguarda. Made me start thinking so I went back and read the thread from start to current. My feeling is that he protesteth to much.

This matter is certainly not simple or one sided. CE started the spin with the FOD story and the CAA have certainly spoken without thinking more than once.

The reality here is that safety is critical! I am an executive in the mining industry. Currently the Department of Minerals & Energy (DME) is on a major safety drive. To this end a mine in Mpumalanga was closed after hours when an inspector sent an SMS to the Mine Manager. In any (temporary) mine closure the DME risk being sued for loss of revenue etc. if they did not have just cause to take the action.

CE or more specifically VB could easily have applied for an urgent interdict overturning the withdrawel of the AMO. The fact that they have sought no legal relief would imply that the CAA had just cause and applied their mind before taking action.

Safety systems are about identifying risks, assessing the probability of occurence and the consequences and then putting procedures into place to reduce either the probability or the consequences or both.

As SLF I would rather the CAA erred on the side of reducing the risks rather than allowing a "potential" risk to continue!!!

[FatFlaps]

I would rather the CAA erred on the side of consistency to squash any "potential" risk before it surfaced. Lets face it, if the CAA had all their ducks in a row, it would never have had to resort to this as any safety problem would have been picked up from the start

[Jamex]

MadHerb said:
There is competition from 1Time, Comair and Kulula. Strange how every thread manages to bash SAA, no matter what.............get a life, get with the thread.

I dont intend turning this into a SAA-bashing thread. I wish to state categorically now that I believe SAA are clean this time around. BUT I must ask, Why was NW grounded as the holiday season started? The timing and the media statements point to an ulterior motive/hidden agenda. As for BA/Comair providing competition, dont forget they have their own problems with the Labour Court right now. Again, is it pure co-incidence that these two airlines are experiencing Gov Dept intervention at the same time? And yes, I know the SACAA is not tax-payer funded, but they are still a government dept in the sense that they are mandated to enforce the Civil Aviation Regulations as legislated by Government. Just asking.

[kaviation]

Go read www.sabcnews.co.za (http://www.sabcnews.co.za) you go CE! :O

[Contract Dog]

Not going to get into a debate here about if there is just cause to ground the fleet but "If" the fleet is unsafe, then grounding it before the holiday season is the best time to do it before thousands of familys head off for christmas?

Hang in there guys and gals at NTW!!!!! I hope this one gets resolved.

Dog

[fluffyfan]

Jamex you ask BUT I must ask, Why was NW grounded as the holiday season started?

I believe this was all started by Nationwide loosing and engine in Cape Town, I dont think it has been a setup to hurt Nationwide during the busy season.

Guys are quick to leap to the defence of Nationwide, I have mates working there and I would hate to see Nationwide go down because of this, but maybe its a good thing that things like this happen, if only the FAA had grounded Alaska Air just before the tail came off, there have been many accidents relating to poor maintenance and to be honest with you the rumours in the aviation scene here in SA about the standard of Nationwides maintenance were never good, I dont know if they were true or not but that was the talk in the industry.

[natkid]

I have been told that CAA spokesperson, Ms Gwebu, told SABC TV reporter she personally would never fly on CE, as she believed it to be unsafe. Anyone catch that broadcast? Is that professional behaviour for a spokesperson, on a sensitive topic under investigation. She should be disciplined if this is true. If it weren't all so tragic, it would be side-splittingly funny.

[grjplanes]

Just heard from Ops the idiots from the CAA released PBI. That's at least one.

Is this correct?
If it is, then they should be able to do some domestic flights with it for Thursday and Friday, and then the LGW flight Friday evening again!

[Siguarda al fine]

MidmarMile
He protesteth to much
Just read the latest post by Siguarda. Made me start thinking so I went back and read the thread from start to current. My feeling is that he protesteth to much.
Believe you me I am not protesting nearly enough.
If the industry must be squeeky clean (and I for one anm for that) then lets start with an admistration that; CONFORMS TO BASIC ICAO REQUIREMENTS AND IS THEN LEGAL, HONEST, IMPARTIAL, QUALIFIED, EXPERIENCED, AND THEN I WILL STOP PROTESTING. I DONT WORK FOR VB AND DONT GIVE HOOT FOR HIM I GIVE A HOOT FOR THE UNSAFE, INSANE METHOD OF POLICING OF THE AIRCRAFT THAT FLY OVER MY HOUSE AND YOURS.

[beechbum]

I dared to stoop to your ignorant level..unfortunately I couldn't help myself.
no ambition morons who work in other companies like SAA. NW ARE THE ELITE. Now Get a life and a real job.

And by the way I have a real job chap like my "ambitious morons" who work with me at SAA.....and very proud of it mind you.
So swing from your trees in Burundi my good fellow......................

[Jamex]

Contract Dog said

Jamex
Not going to get into a debate here about if there is just cause to ground the fleet but "If" the fleet is unsafe, then grounding it before the holiday season is the best time to do it before thousands of familys head off for christmas?


Agreed, if there are genuine safety concerns/violations then ground them irrespective what time of the year/season it may be. The question I still have however is, are the two incidents (NW grounded and BA/Comair's labour issue) related or not? Is there something going on behind the scenes? Why is the contract for the CEO of CAA then terminated/not renewed during this same thorny period? Is this a last gasp effort from CAA to get their house in order and end an otherwise very eventful year(for CAA) by ensuring they dont have the same issues to deal with next year? There just seems to be a lot going on and a lot of questions surrounding/involving the SACAA at this point. Not trying to propogate a "conspiracy theory" here, just asking the question. Then again, if CAA are finally doing their job, can we expect them to subject other operators to the same scrutiny?

[Preseated]

Looks like a deal has been done - hope the NW guys can finally get back to work - good luck to them all.




A Civil Aviation Authority & Nationwide Airlines joint statement

Framework of compliance between SACAA & Nationwide Airlines and Nationwide AMO
SACAA, Nationwide Airlines
05 Dec 2007 17:27

The SA Civil Aviation Authority (SACAA) and Nationwide Airlines today concluded a Framework of Compliance which outlines the process to be followed in ensuring that there is compliance with the requisite regulations and to ensure adherence to the applicable regulatory framework.
Through this framework, the Commissioner has approved, in principle, Nationwide Airline's contracting out the heavy maintenance of its aircraft fleet to Safair, the independent aircraft maintenance and engineering company based at Johannesburg's O.R. Tambo International Airport. Safair is a SACAA approved AMO.
The SACAA is committed to a collaborative and constructive approach to safety compliance. We have no doubt that the audit findings related to Nationwide Airlines can be satisfactorily addressed.
According to Mr Vernon Bricknell , CEO of Nationwide Airlines - "Nationwide cannot apologise enough to their customers who have been inconvenienced through this disruption, but with this new, joint approach, they are hopeful that they will very soon get their aircraft back in the skies so that people can fly again".
SACAA has also given special permission to Nationwide to move their aircraft, which are currently in different places in the country e.g. Cape Town, Durban, etc., to Safair for maintenance purposes. These aircraft will be flown without any passengers but only with essential flight crew.
SACAA and Nationwide are committed to working together for purposes of ensuring that the highest standards of aviation safety, security and compliance with the applicable regulatory framework are , at all times, maintained. All parties are committed to ensuring aviation safety as this is non-negotiable.
Issued jointly by the South African Civil Aviation Authority and Nationwide Airlines

[Maurice Chavez]

GRJPLANES,

Yes it's correct. Info given to me by our Ops. Didn't ask wether it would fly the domestic route though. Also been told SafAir will do the maintenance for us....Let's see how long it will take to have all our aeries back in the sky...

[litildevil]

as with you all i can understand the safety issues that are being spoken about, but grounding the entire fleet? for so long, was it really necessary?

and it would be fine if you found something to do with the aircraft and not with the paperwork? the SACAA have completely lost there marbles. :mad:

sure ground them, but why the lot? let some keep operating, then take the next batch and so forth. sorry but it's too hard to believe that all the aircraft are dodgy. if you read between the lines from an objective point of view and with the Chief of the SACAA all of a sudden resigning, you can smell a rat. and i hope that VB and his legal team sue for all the bad press.

as for them going out of business i hope not, they've got SAA scared and it's about time they got a shot across the bows. State susidised and still can't offer good value.

this whole episode might affect new business a little, but i can tell you this, there past passengers are more than happy to keep flying with them. The'yve seen something they like and keep coming back for more and are telling there friends. :)

i feel for those passenger who've already lost the opportunity to get home for xmas to see there families.

Nationwide have bought back to the customer, good value for money when flying, service with a smile, good food and low cost direct flights from London.

Is it any wonder the rest of them (BA, SA) are shaking in there boots.

Now lets all stand up and give Nationwide some support, get them back on track and get families home to there loved ones for xmas and hope Nationide have also learnt from this experience.

[Siguarda al fine]

Now lets all stand up and give Nationwide some support, get them back on track and get families home to there loved ones for xmas and hope Nationide have also learnt from this experience.

And so say all sane people! good luck and God speed to NW employees.
NOW LETS HOPE THE CAA GET THEIR HOUSE IN ORDER BEFORE THEY GET MORE ROTTEN AND CORRUPT.

[Ricoffy]

Nationwide needs to operate. When the SACAA clears them, we shall see them in the skies again. My concern is what do the general public make of all this, with all the news broadcasts etc. Public opinion counts. How much damage has been done to Nationwide's reputation and what will it take to restore public faith in them again?

[CALCULATOR]

Cant wait to see VB face(or be a fly on the wall) when VB receives his first bill from SAFAIR !!! They are not the cheapest and they dont cut corners. VB might have wished he was grounded for good.:D

[cigar]

Is the mx agreement with SAFAIR just a temporary arrangement or has CE's decided to call it quits when it comes to heavy maintenance?

[fluffyfan]

Calculator They are not the cheapest and they dont cut corners.

Not the best either, the aircraft I flew that were maintained by them always had a few snags in the books......was a stark contrast to SAAT which were light years ahead in my opinion, those fluffies were exceptionally maintained by SAAT, must be all that public money.

[millertime]

Actually Safair maintenance is not great , they maintained the SAA B737 freighters for a while and things were very shoddy, in fact pressure came from the pilots to ground the freight operation until the issues were sorted out from a safety point of view, needless to say they no longer maintain the fluffies.

[RunwayBlueOne]

this whole episode might affect new business a little, but i can tell you this, there past passengers are more than happy to keep flying with them. The'yve seen something they like and keep coming back for more and are telling there friends. :)

i feel for those passenger who've already lost the opportunity to get home for xmas to see there families.

Nationwide have bought back to the customer, good value for money when flying, service with a smile


If the snap poll on news 24 is anything to go by, new business might be a wee bit tight proposition for the moment but pax have short memories. If Nationwide can save people a penny over another airline- then people will fly it. Simple as that. It's nothing to do with passengers "seeing something they like and keep coming back for more" More what? Truth be told- all flying is an ordeal for pax (except on Mango- It's torture) so it's mostly all about price or points (Oneworld or Star alliance) Some full service airlines consistently beat Nationwide in price and offer a better product. Example- SAA's saver fares and these include refreshments- something you pay extra for on Nationwide. In any case we need Nationwide flying again soon to keep domestic fares competitive across the board.

[Preseated]

Who - ho -- NW is back - they fly on Friday.
Other planes to fly on Safir clearance - well done.

Nationwide back in business
06/12/2007 17:08 - (SA)

Verashni Pillay
Cape Town - The South African Civil Aviation Authority (SACAA) has given grounded airline, Nationwide, permission for a flight to London, spokesperson Phindiwe Gwebu told News24 on Thursday.
The flight will leave from Johannesburg on Friday night.
"The aircraft was maintained and the SACAA conducted an inspection on it," said Gwebu. <snip>

[4HolerPoler]

Siguarda sent to the cooler for a week & a few personal rant posts removed. Keep it nice guys.

[Ricoffy]

Any reliable info when they will resume domestic ops again ?

[777Contrail]

Safair maintenance!!!

Their best tool is the MEL/DDM.

Remember years ago how they changed an FCU on the grass and for good measure used the old o-rings in the replacement unit.

The work was promptly signed out..................

Nationwide will now learn what maintenance problems mean.................

[3rdBogey]

I think when we heard the news firs last Saturday, we ALL got that horrible feeling in our guts, (like when you made poo at school...) and immediately thought: Where will i get my house-bond money from, school fees, medical aid, food!
We empathise with you guys, and pray for a quicker rise to the skies.
Also, we don't want you flooding the market..... JUST JOKING!!! Bad joke I know.:=
It would make the rumouring less effective if SAA was not in the same payroll as the CAA though.....

[FFWD]

Good luck to all the staff at NW.:D

[E-tjops]

Just heard on the news that NW's B767 been given clean bill of health and can resume flights this weekend to LHR and also do some domestic flights the help with the backlog. Hope it is true and the rest of the fleet will follow soon. Will be great to hear NW callsign again in the air...where it belongs.:D:ok::D:ok:

[mainbearing]

NW resume dom flying as soon as A/C released by safair/caa,should, although at half throttle, until demand picks up, start early next week.

[grjplanes]

Surely if they could have released the 767 since yesterday morning, then there should be at least another aircraft released by now (friday afternoon). Saw on the news last night, they had a clip where you could see inspectors checking a 737-500. I would have thought about 1 aircraft a day released, would be better to have the 2 737-500s and 727-200 back in the air asap.

[mainbearing]

You thought right, thats whats happening.

[mik707]

you must realy keep up . safair is doing the maint en the 767 is flying again

[grjplanes]

Has any other aircraft been released by now?

Just been doing a quick check on flights for the rest of the week on their website...seems to have 1 flight a day to CPT and DUR on Wed (12) and Thurs (13).
On Friday (14th) then 1 flight to each destination JNB-CPT, DUR, PLZ, MQP and LVI, and CPT-PLZ-DUR...but 3 727-200 flights to GRJ!!!???

[grjplanes]

Nationwide 737-500 has just landed at GRJ, first flight in 11 days to GRJ. Looking at their website it seems that JNB-GRJ flights is back to normal as of today, with 2 daily flights (saying there 727-200, but guess it'll first be with 735)...while both JNB-CPT and JNB-DUR is only to receive 1 flight a day for the next few days.

[Shrike200]

Don't worry, Nationwide management are already looking for new and innovative ways to balls it up. Already a balls up on the GRJ flight. 5 pax down? 1 pax up?!?! Nationwide succeeds despite it's managers, not because of them...*sigh*, managers...:ugh: (they no doubt go 'pilots, :ugh:')...speaking from experience though, other companies have their moments too...

[Christo]

You saying 1 pax on the return leg?!?!? Eina bliksem!!!! That cannot do the bank statement any favours but I guess they have no choice, the airies must fly to get the word out!

[Shrike200]

Don't get me wrong - there were, and still are, plenty of pax available. I'm told they just made a bugger-up with the times, hence they took what they had.

[putt for dough]

What are the pax numbers like? Are the public still flying
with them or is a brutal marketing campaign needed to keep
the numbers up?

[Leezyjet]

I'm trying to get a refund from Nationwide at the moment, although I emailed them 9 days ago with details and again today, but had no response.

Had booked to fly PLZ-CPT on the 21st, but due to the uncertainty of the situation and that there are 5 in my party and we have an international flight to connect onto, I had to rebook with another carrier while they still had seats available as if we left it later and they didn't start operating again then we would have been stuck !!.

Glad to hear they are back in the air again. Flown with CE quite a few times and always had good service with them. Just hope they can continue that good service and process my refund soon.

:hmm:

[grjplanes]

To fly Nationwide now would probably be the safest you can feel in South Africa...knowing that the aircraft have been thoroughly checked, just a few days ago!!!
They have released their schedules that would be operated untill 22 December...basically all routes would be served once daily (except MQP), and JNB-GRJ mostly 2x daily and a few days JNB-CPT 2x daily.
Although the first few flights yesterday and today was very poor loads, it seems that it would be picking up tomorrow and over the weekend, with prices being higher. The 1 flight Friday JNB-GRJ is actually full.

[JetNut]

To fly Nationwide now would probably be the safest you can feel in South Africa...knowing that the aircraft have been thoroughly checked, just a few days ago!!!



your logic baffles.:ugh:

[Ricoffy]

be the safest you can feel in South Africa...knowing that the aircraft have been thoroughly checked

And the other carriers are not as safe. I beg to differ. :=

[grjplanes]

My comment is only for the way the general flying public would be (and is expected by journos!) thinking currently...

I'm not saying it IS the safest in the country or safer than others...I mean you can FEEL safe about flying Nationwide. The general idea about Nationwide currently is that their aircraft is unsafe...ooohhh and the engine is going to fall off!!!
I've heard how people in a queue of another airline yelled at pax booking in at Nationwide "Are you crazy flying with them!" And this is a very wrong perspective of things, but it is people that don't know better. All of us here on this forum understand what is going on currently, while the majority of people only read or hear these things, and immediately have come to a conclusion!

So if there were more people thinking clearly, it would come down to say that I'm not worried about flying with Nationwide now, because that aircraft where my bum is going to sit for 1h30min in the air, has been cleared safe to fly! NOT saying that others is unsafe! Nationwide has a big mountain ahead of them in changing the mindset of the flying public now.

[grjplanes]

Any indication of more aircraft being released soon?
I suspect the 727s and 737-200s would probably take a bit longer to inspect than the 737-500s?

[Black Pearl]

I fail to see your optimism regarding Nationwide’s safety? A leopard never changes his spots! VB will continue to threaten the crew if they don’t want to fly un-airworthy aircraft, contrary to International safety standards. He has no regard for anyone’s safety, only the bottom line. He is the master of exploitation and will continue to do so. As long as VB is at the helm of Nationwide I would not go near it! Fly Nationwide and play Russian roulette with your life!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :uhoh:

[Whenwe]

I sometimes wonder if those close to VB will finally tell him to go and play with his "wielietjies" (little cars). Just like he often organizes the dispatch of others.

[maxpwr]

Is everything back to normal at Nationiwde ?All routes going ?

[Maurice Chavez]

I fail to see your optimism regarding Nationwide’s safety? A leopard never changes his spots! VB will continue to threaten the crew if they don’t want to fly un-airworthy aircraft, contrary to International safety standards. He has no regard for anyone’s safety, only the bottom line. He is the master of exploitation and will continue to do so. As long as VB is at the helm of Nationwide I would not go near it! Fly Nationwide and play Russian roulette with your life!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Really? I work for the man and never been told by him to depart beyond the MEL!!! He doesn't even get involved if the crew grounds an airplane....Playing Russian roulette with your life? Hahhahaha, idiot you are... Think twice before you post stuff here you don't know anything about and neither that you can back up. := := := :=

[Skillie]

Anybody that can assist. Try and do booking on their website but throws it back as technical error with a lot of reasons. Maybe me with finger trouble?:confused:

[Shrike200]

Unlikely. Nationwide has the most abysmal of the online booking websites, powered by the appallingly unfriendly Worldspan system.

And, what Maurice said. I suppose people could say it a billion times, and it still doesn't sink in. Anyway, here goes: VB DOES NOT WANDER AROUND THE APRON ANYMORE TELLING CREW TO DEPART REGARDLESS OF SNAGS. I really don't know how to say it any more clearly. The MEL is your friend.

[grjplanes]

Anybody that can assist. Try and do booking on their website but throws it back as technical error with a lot of reasons. Maybe me with finger trouble?:confused:

That's usually what it does when flights are full, so depends to where and for when you're booking...ie: JNB-GRJ is full for the next few days...other routes most probably also, because of other cancelled flights' pax all being transferred to an operating flight.

[Skillie]

Thanks GRJ Planes it makes sense. Looks like I won't make the family get together this Xmas in George.:ugh:

[grjplanes]

If you still want to make it before Christmas to GRJ, there isn't alot of options left. Nationwide is full untill Christmas day with the first flight available. 1Time has seats left on 23 and 24 Dec for R1699, probably not for long...and Kulula only one flight left on 23 Dec for R1599 plus taxes.
Also keep an eye on SA, because they might have seats available at the last moment, because they have to use the bigger leased 737-200 in the place of the Q400 that had "the incident"...
BUT Kulula also have flights on 20 and 24 Dec from Lanseria, also for R1599 plus taxes (the cheaper taxes...)
Good Luck, although it's quite a price to pay!

[four engine jock]

To say that VB make their Flight crew fly un-airworthy aircraft is a bunch of crap.
I recently had the opportunity to fly with some of Nationwide Flight Crews.
I must say ,they are some of the most professional guys I have ever seen.

Hope to see very soon the B727 back in the air.

[PAXboy]

Further thread drift: On getting to GRJ, I guess it depends which is your priority:- To get there; To not spend much money; To not use much time getting there.

If you have to be there AND have the money - there are some flights. If you have to be there and don't have much money but DO have time ... then you can hop to CPT and take a bus up from there (eg the BAzBus). There is Link CPT~GRJ of course but the cost will nullify the saving of going via CPT, although it is a viable alternative if you have the money! It is the usual trade off.

I see that Link no longer do JNB~PLZ which would have been another. That's a pity really as it was a very pretty flight and arrival.

[Skillie]

Thanks guys for the advise. Looks like I will be able to get to George either way. As you said it will come at a price.:{

[grjplanes]

I hope you got sorted by now, because it seems by now there is only 1time on monday left, as well as Kulula from Lanseria on Monday, and SA available on Saturday with 732...good luck...and yes, at a price!

[JET-UP-SET]

Hard times on everybody at NTW! Heard VB's getting some experts in, tooooo fix it ,what's up? PS can it be fixed ? Heard other oldies are returning to help:bored:?

[JvJ]

Please PM me if you are serious about working for a REAL airline.

[beechbum]

Please PM me if you are serious about working for a REAL airline
Thought you had left SAA......?????????
Sorry guys and gals couldn't resist!!!!!!! Chop!

Please can I, please can I.....pleeeeeeeeeeeeez....I want a job at your REAL airline so I can get screwed over by your antics.......:E:E
Will that come with a tub of vaseline or should I bring my own?????? As my salary will hardly afford me my flat in Hillbrow...but hey we could be neighbours!!!
Yay...then you can give me a lift to work every day.....yipeeeeeee!!!!
I can't wait....where do I sign up??????????:p

[flyknight]

Please PM me if you are serious about working for a REAL airline. JvJ

Guys, beware...if this is the JvJ I got to know, then rather become a second hand car salesman or make sandles on the beach somewhere :=