S’African Robbery Syndicate Targets Nigerian Travellers

[Flying Touareg]

Guys becareful out there


If you are a Nigerian business traveller to South Africa, you have to tread, or rather, fly with caution. You may lose all you have to a specialised robbery syndicate in Johannesburg as soon as you arrive.
THISDAY checks revealed that in the last two weeks, no fewer than seven Nigerians have been victims of this syndicate that has attacked over 50 Nigerian business travellers in the last few months.
Dozens of Nigerians are also said to be daily harassed and subtly threatened by immigration officers in South Africa whenever they arrive aboard a Nigerian airline.
The syndicate is believed to include a strong network of immigration officials who allegedly leak the information provided by Nigerians on their landing cards to the robbers.
The information usually contains the addresses the Nigerian visitors would stay on their trip. The cash declaration form also provides sensitive information with which the syndicate works.
Sources say the attacks on Nigerians are not unconnected to the fact that Nigeria travellers carry huge sums of money on their trips, and they are easily identified by the airline on which they arrive the country.
It was also gathered that the robbery is hatched during the immigration check of these travellers, and by the time the traveller is through with declaring all currencies and valuables, he/she leaves the airport only to be attacked by armed men who dispossess them of their valuables.
Folake Mumuni, a British Airways staff in Johannesburg, is one of the latest casualties, while Kaliko Olowole, Managing Director of ZK Advertising, Nigeria; Yinka Folami, Group Account Director, Insight/Grey Advertising, Nigeria; Kehinde Tejumola Idowu, a model; Deji Longe, electronic installer and consultant with Multichoice Nigeria on DStv; are a few of the casualties who have recounted their experiences to THISDAY.
Most victims would want to remain anonymous for security reasons.
THISDAY also gathered that most of the victims are robbed of all their belongings, including luggage and international passports.
Some victims have had to come back to Nigeria with their travel certificates, while some others are stranded in South Africa because they have no travelling documents to return home.
Mumuni’s experience happened about two weeks ago when she went to Johannesburg. She was reportedly trailed to her house in River Club, Johannesburg, where she was dispossessed of all her belongings, including her Nigerian passport, by three armed men. Though, she confirmed the incident to THISDAY on phone, she could not give a full account of her ordeal because she was about boarding a flight out of Johannesburg when THISDAY spoke with her.
Olowole was attacked on September 30, 2007 when he went on official assignment. According to him, “I got to Johannesburg on that fateful Sunday; my friend came to pick me to Midrand. As we were getting home, we just saw a car behind us then somebody jumped off the car, pounced on the security man at the gate, pointed a gun at him, while the other two well-dressed guys followed us in and held us hostage. I parted with all my belongings including my international passport, which they later returned to me. They are mean South Africans”.
Another victim is Folami, Group Account Director, Insight/Grey Advertising in Nigeria. He was attacked on July, 15, 2007 when he went to Johannesburg for the production of the Gulder Lager commercials.
Folami recounts: “I went to Johannesburg to tidy up the post production of Gulder television commercial with our production partner in South Africa, Red Dot Production, which is run by Chris Briggs. We arrived at Johannesburg at about 5.50 am and I called Chris, who sent his driver to come and pick me. We left the airport at 7.20 am for Protea Wanderers Hotel, Ilovo. After ten minutes of my arrival at the hotel, Chris came in hugged me and before we knew anything, a man hit him at the shoulder and when he turned back, he wanted to fight him. You know most white guys South Africa have military training.
“But as he was about doing this, another emerged from no where with a gun, cocked it and pointed it at Chris’ stomach, telling him to lie down or he would be dead. By that Chris lay down and told me to do the same with his driver. They took my entire luggage, my laptop, my Nigerian international passport and every other thing I had on me. I had to come back with a travel certificate issued by the Nigerian consulate in Johannesburg”.
The experience of Idowu is not totally different, only that as at the time of writing this report, she was stranded in South Africa due to lack of travelling document to come back to Nigeria. According to the student of the Lagos State University who spoke with THISDAY from South Africa, “when I arrived Johannesburg on October 6, 2007, it took two hours for our luggage to be cleared and by the time we were through with that and the immigration checks, I left with my friends, Adebisi Showemimo and Waribi Martha that came to pick me. At about 8.45 am around Ilovo mill, a car came from no where and three guys came out of the car and pointed their guns at us. They asked me to open the boot, we did and they took my entire luggage, my money, my international passport, while they also collected bags and other valuables from Adebisi and Martha. As I’m speaking to you, I do not have even a travelling document to come back to Nigeria”.
THISDAY also gathered that three Nigerians came back to Nigeria with travel certificates issued by the Nigerian High Commission in South Africa, because they had also been victims of the airport robbery syndicate.
Marketing Manager of Virgin Nigeria, Seun Shoyinka, who was on board, confirmed the predicament of these three Nigerians. According to him, “I cannot confirm their names now until I lay my hands on the manifest for that day”.
There was also a story of three managers of First City Monument Bank (FCMB) who were on a training trip to South Africa about three months ago. They were followed to their hotels and stripped of all their belongings. They reportedly came back to Nigeria with travel certificates.
Another victim, Deji Longe, volunteered to speak with THISDAY. He is an electronic installer and consultant with Multichoice Nigeria on DStv installations and repairs.
His own ordeal was on September, 23, 2007.
“I got to Johannesburg at 6.30 am and we were not cleared early enough. The robbery happened at around 8.30 at Park More, Sandton. We were trying to locate our destination when a car with three guys emerged in our front. We reversed and they drove towards us. We were forced to stop and the guys came out of this car with guns. They collected 10,000 US Dollars from me. My laptop was taken; my passport snatched and other valuables. I had to come back to Nigeria on travel certificate.”
Longe confirmed that “once you declare your currencies and valuables at the airport, they follow you and unleash terror. The worst is that all complaints made to the police authorities in South Africa have produced no result. They claim they are hindered.”
The South African High Commission in Nigeria refused to comment on the issue when contacted by THISDAY.
Officials said the High Commission would soon address a press conference over the issue.


http://www.thisdayonline.com/nview.php?id=96550

[B Sousa]

Somewhat of a pleasant change of pace. The Nigerians are keeping South Africas finest busy, is a relief for South African Citizens......

[LongJohnThomas]

B Sousa,
I would not expect a more educated comment from you man.:rolleyes:

[B Sousa]

LJT
Well I hope I met your expectations. Nigerians are notorius around the world for theft etc. Interesting to see some folks are smarter at crime than they are.

[unstable load]

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

Sad as it is, it's quite funny to see the reaction when the boot is on the other foot.

[Flying Touareg]

The story speaks for itself. And i believe it is incontrovertible that crime prevails in south Africa,and it amazes me when the SAguys potray a holier than thou attitude to their problems.:confused:

[LongJohnThomas]

I must say that you guys need to understand that this has nothing to do with the boot being on the other foot.:=
To start with, if you said Nigerians were fraudsters, to an extent, i'd agree with you, but thief? Theft? I really dont know about that!:ugh:
By nature, Nigerians dont steal, but exploit the greed of others, that does NOT make it right, but i tend to think greed is the primary motive of those who get conned!:D
Outright theft and armed robbery outside Nigeria, by Nigerians? I REALLY DOUBT!!!!!!!!:ok:

[B Sousa]

SAguys potray a holier than thou attitude to their problems
Even more interesting comment, but I think its more a statement of their desperation. I mean just what can the paleface do about crime in SA. The Police are corrupt, the Government is corrupt and they are disarming all the citizens. This is not a couple hundred years ago where those fed up could march on the capitol with pitchforks and shovels.
So statments made that may seem nonchalant is just another way of throwing up ones hands.
If you have a solution, you could get very rich, but Im sure it would not be PC in this touchy feely world.

By nature, Nigerians dont steal, but exploit the greed of others,
There is a piece of work, By the way will you send me all your banking information so I may exploit your greed by depositing $28 Million U.S. in your account. (In this world We call it THEFT by deception)

[ZAZOO]

QUOTE
",and it amazes me when the SAguys potray a holier than thou attitude to their problems."
Today 16:04

Dear Flying Touareg let nothing surprise you about SAguys and their potrayals, it is well known all over the world! The english fell for it for some time but now know better!

I could give you tons of examples but have never had time for their banterings!!! :rolleyes:

[AAL]

Can you imagine, the wheel has done a full circle. Amazing!!!! :ok:

[LongJohnThomas]

I wont waste my time here, it will only end up with the south africans trying to prove how much better than Nigerians they are!
Have fun guys! I leave this thread to those with the stomach for the likes of B Sousa.

[B Sousa]

end up with the south africans trying to prove how much better than Nigerians they are!

Not being South African, I wouldnt know. I dont really see that as the topic here. I think it had to do with the Nigerians getting a piece of their own thrown back at them.

LJT, I consider that a compliment. I havent received your personal information yet, so that I may make the Bank deposit.
Waste your time, its a forum, not a place to harbor ill will or get upset because your side is not the most popular. It would be just as easy to discuss this over a few beers. Neither would win, but the Beer could be so refreshing.

[merlinxx]

Keep it amongst yourselves south of the Sahara, we really are terribly grateful.

[SIMBA KALI]

Its true what they say....KARMA IS A REAL BITCH!!!:ok:

[RobinB]

So Nigerian's (*) this is how it goes - "Sorry for you" !

(*) Of course it goes without saying that we cannot generalise, so those Nigerian's (and other similar such members of the human race, wherever they come from) of "less than savoury intent", long may you be harassed.
:D:D:D

[kotakota]

Amazing , Nigerians complaining about crime...........
The biter bit...........
I know , how about a World Cup of Scams ? Who will get the Bronze while the 2 main contenders scrap over the Gold ?

[Metro man]

I am a Nigerian who has been the victim of this scam. All my money was stolen from me, I appealing for US$2000 to replace my passport and buy a ticket home. I will return your money plus 50% interest upon my return to Lagos.

Can any of you kind souls assist me please ? :E

[hotmj43]

What utter C:mad:THEFT is horrible and should be condenmed rather than this
uneducated approach.well i await your comments when you are done over,
irrepective whether you are done OVER by a Nigerian or Eskimo....on your travels.:=

[hotmj43]

B sousa,my input is directed for your specific consumption forget the refreshing BEERS,on this one B:mad:

[LongJohnThomas]

I think this topic should be ignored. The guys here seem to think it's something to celebrate when Nigerians are robbed.
Justifying robbery is one thing, outright ignorance is another!
They seem to think that our reactions are based on the fact that Nigerians are the ones being robbed.
I must emphasize here that regardless of race, colour, gender, religion etc
ROBBERY IS WRONG BE IT IN SOUTH AFRICA OR ANYWHERE ELSE!!!!
Wheter the victim is Nigerian or not!
I had given up on this a while ago, but it seems these guys just dont get it!
Hotmj43, PM pls.

[surely not]

Jeez the arrogance of many from South African is amazing.

I have worked in both countries, but I am not a citizen of either. I can honestly say that I felt more wary and at risk when out in Jo'burg than when I was out in Kano or Victoria Island, or even Ikeja.

There is an undercurrent of malevolence in Jo'burg that is very disturbing. Nearly everyday there were reports of Cash in Transit heists, with the drivers being set on fire in several cases. Signage that warns a particular junction is a car jacking hot spot, and the advice given to me by South Africans not to stop at red robots (traffic lights) if driving at night. I was told that if I was held up under no circumstances shud I even look as if I was not going to comply with their requests as this would result in my being shot. The Hotel I stayed in was robbed at gunpoint on a Sunday lunch time, the 4th hotel in the area to suffer. No one seemed overly surprised as Christmas was approaching.

In Lagos and Kano the people live in much harsher surroundings yet there isn't the same undercurrent unless you stray into the well known dodgy areas. I felt I was much more likely to be offered the hand of friendship in Nigeria than in South Africa.

The Nigerians are blamed for nearly all the crime in Jo'burg, with the Zimbabweans coming a close second. Well I didn't think this was an accurate statement then, and I don't think it is now.

Unless South Africans of all varieties can face up to, and address, the vicious crime problem that they have, then the FIFA World Cup is going to be a disaster for the country.

[AAL]

Surely Not and LJT, crime in South Africa is terrible. Housebreaking and robberies are a daily occurence. It is not even newsworthy or discussed anymore, but we are extremely concerned about the extraordinary high murder rate on average about 50 a day now, beginning to resemble some kind of "condoned" genocide.

We become conerned when the rest of the world does not take notice and dont seem to bother or be concerned. This kind of madness does not even exist in Zimbabwe yet our Commonwealth and AU brothers do nothing to protest, judge, condemn, or bring pressure to bear to force the SA Govt to do something about this carnage. Instead SA was/is even rewarded by being awarded to host the 2010 footbal world cup.

This tendency (new development) to rob foreigners enterring South Africa on visits (mainly for shopping) is a worrying phenomenon that we South Africans are very concerned about, just as is the organised pilfering of travellers luggage at JNB Airport. The irony (joke) is that both phenomenons seem to be getting worse and out of control.

Not wanting to make a racial issue of this (but in SA it is difficult not to), these problems seem to have manifested and now out of control since Jan Smuts International Airport's name was changed to the Oliver Tambo International Airport. So guess who was responsible for that, and guess who's stealing from the baggage and robbing the toursists/visitors. Guess who's in control of security and policing the airport and surroundings. These same people you guessed must also be blamed and accept responsibility, but then they are the same people doing nothing about the virtual genocide happening in our country.

There are many good honest Nigerians in South Africa making a decent honest living. We are always happy to receive visitors (and shoppers) from all over Africa, including friends from Nigeria.

Unfortunately Nigerians are themselves to blame for their reputation of fraudsters and swindlers, by deeds, or ommissions to have clamped down against the perpetrators. In South Africa a much bigger and worrying concern however is that many of these Nigerian visitors arrive in SA to never return back to Nigeria again. We now have a Nigerian population in South Africa in excess of 1 million.

Of these a few hundred thousand congregate in a specific area of Johannesburg which has become our narcotics capital. It is inconceivable why and unacceptable that these Nigerians have become the major narcotics traffickers and merchants in our country. With every major narcotics smuggling bust Nigerians are usualy involved.

So dear friends, if you take exception against the irony and humour of crime in South Africa now beginning to impact on the Nigerian community also, please understand, it is a situation we have long been complaining about - but one that us South Africans find amusing because of the general lawless activities of all the hundreds of Nigerian so-called economic refugees in South Africa.

While there is a certain irony in this reporting, - I must stress that there are overwhelmingly many more good, decent, upright, laborious and hardworking Nigerians in South Africa (and everywhere) also.

[fluffyfan]

While there is a certain irony in this reporting, - I must stress that there are overwhelmingly many more good, decent, upright, laborious and hardworking Nigerians in South Africa (and everywhere) also
There are ? :hmm: where ?

[surely not]

Very cheap fluffyfan................. very cheap.

[I.R.PIRATE]

Best news I have heard all week.

My weekend will be filled with joy, knowing that.

Have a fantastic weekend all!!:ok:

[AAL]

My dear flyffyfan, you are being facecious and extremely unfair, even racist, and if you are a Mzungu South African like me, an embarrassment to others of us. Otherwise you are making a lighthearted observation in jest, tounge in cheeck, or simply seeking attention and reaction.

The first-class pilots that I work- and come into contact with daily in the industry are Nigerians.

I am happy and proud that these upright, professional and hardworking people are my friends.

[TomBola]

LJT and surely not are right. Nobody should be gloating over the robbery of someone else. Robbery is wrong no matter who commits it and it should be condemned by every right thinking person from Nigeria to Nevada.

[fluffyfan]

My dear flyffyfan, you are being facecious and extremely unfair, even racist,

I love it, I must be a racist AAL........:D

My take on Nigeria........Lagos is a steaming sh1t hole with very little law and order, having been there a few times I was most grateful for the armed escort to the hotel although that would not have helped us had we been in an accident in the most overcrowded lawless traffic conditions I have ever witnessed. The level of poverty in Africa richest (in terms of mineral wealth) country is truly astounding and the people dying on the side of the road is a must see for all would be tourists.

Yes maybe its unfair to paint all Nigerians with the same brush, but the only thing Nigeria seem to contribute to the world is a thriving drug industry and all the ancillary crimes that go along with that, Nigerians also seem to do very well in the scams and extortion business, the kidnapping and murder trade also seems to do well there. Nigerians have emigrated all over the world and wherever they are its the same story, the UK, the US, Australia, Europe, South Africa......wherever you find Nigerians you find drugs and crime in large quantities, now that is a fact, so Nigerians only have themselves to blame.

Thats my opinion of Nigeria..............I must be a racist

[TomBola]

There are ? where ?

Fluffyfan, you don't say which country you are from, so it's not possible for us to comment in derogatory terms about your country or its people the way you comment about my Nigeria and its people.

However, let's see and give you some facts:

The Managing Director of CHC Africa (in South Africa) is a decent, hardworking honest Nigerian man who would not have achieved such a position in a world-leading aviation company were it not so.

The general manager of Bristow Helicopters in Aberdeen is another decent, hardworking, honest Nigerian who was previously managing director of the Nigerian branch of Bristow and was selected for the post in UK by senior management at the company HQ in USA. His replacement in Nigeria is another decent, hardworking, honest Nigerian. People like these don't get advanced to positions such as these in multi-national companies with their codes of business integrity unless they are proven to be honest and decent.

If you think the traffic in Lagos is the worst you have ever witnessed, you've obviously never been to places like Cairo, Tehran or Miami!

You are quick to post statements with no backing evidence, such as:

wherever you find Nigerians you find drugs and crime in large quantities, now that is a fact

And your evidence for this is what?

The level of poverty in Africa richest (in terms of mineral wealth) country

And your evidence for that is what?

What is the richest country in Africa? (http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_richest_country_in_Africa)

It seems like everyone is distorted with the facts! the richest countries are ranked below.
Richest Countries in Africa
Rank Country GDP - per capita
1 Equatorial Guinea $ 50,200
2 Mauritius $ 13,500
3 South Africa $ 13,000
4 Libya $ 12,700
5 Botswana $ 11,400
6 Tunisia $ 8,600
7 Seychelles $ 7,800
8 Algeria $ 7,700
9 Namibia $ 7,400
10 Gabon $ 7,200

If you talk about mineral resources, Angola is probably the richest country in Africa.

Go to http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/mp.html where the US government keeps data on all countries in the world. Go to any African country you want and look at GDP per capita. This is the amount of money spent on the average person in the country during 1 year. For comparision, in 2005 The USA was 41,000 dollars, France was 30,000 dollars, China was 6,200 dollars. Africa is another story. Nigeria was only 1,000 dollars. Kenya was 1,200 dollars. Sychelles 7,800. Botswana 10,100. South Africa 11,900. Mauritius was the highest at 13,300. Mauritius also has a high life expectancy, high literacy rate, low Aids rate, low birth rate, etc that is very unusual for an African country.

Try and take into account the population of these countries before analysing their wealth. If some of these countries were faced with Nigeria's population, they wouldn't have anything.

Africa's ten wealthiest Countries (http://www.clickafrique.com/Magazine/ST014/CP0000000224.aspx)


10. Cape Verde – GPD per capital: $6,200
This group of islands has one of the most stable democratic governments in Africa. This has however not stopped a significant amount of the population from emigrating, especially in the late part of the last century when a series of drought caused a lot of hardship for the population. Thus there is now has a larger expatriate population than a domestic one (70% of which reside in rural areas) and they account for about 20% of the country’s GDP through remittances they send back home. It runs a mainly service-based economy, accounting for 66% of the GDP, while agriculture accounts for another 12%.

9. Gabon – GDP per capita: $6,800
Ruled by one of the longest serving heads of states in the World, El Hadj Omar Bongo Ondimba, Gabon has a small population. This along with significant foreign support and abundant resources has helped to make Gabon one of the more prosperous nations in Africa. However there is a major gap between the rich and poor, with majority of its population living in poverty. Local industry, especially the oil and gas industry, account for more than 60% of the GDP.

8. Namibia – GDP per capita: $7,000
Despite only getting its independence in 1990 and having an economy heavily linked to its neighbour, South Africa, Namibia finds itself in the 8th position. However this hides the fact that Namibia has one of the worst distributions of wealth in the world with half of the population depends on subsistence agriculture for its livelihood. One of the world leading exporters of nonfuel minerals in Africa and a great source for high quality diamonds.

7. Algeria – GDP per capita: $7,200
A nation plagues with many social and infrastructure problems; its economy is heavily reliant on the petroleum industry. High energy prices have helped the economy with 60% of the dependent of the sale of the petroleum, which also accounts of 95% of its exports. Despites the government’s efforts to diversify the economy and increase foreign investments, unemployment still remain high.

6. Tunisia – GDP per capita: $8,300
This moderate North African country has a diverse economy with major agricultural, mining, energy, tourism, and manufacturing interests. Although still a mainly a government controlled economy, there has been increasing privatization which is expected to increase foreign investments.

5. Botswana – GDP per capita: $10,500
Forty years of uninterrupted civilian governments, progressive social policies, and considerable capital investment have created one of the most dynamic economies in Africa. These factors, along with fiscal discipline and sound management, have helped Botswana to have one of the fastest growing economies in the world since its independence in 1966 and transformed it from one of the poorest nations in the world to a middle income one.

4. Libya – GDP per capita: $11,400
Libya has been ruled by one man since 1969, Muammar Abu Minyar al-Qadhafi, who has promoted his own political system, the Third Universal Theory. Despite 4 years of UN sanctions following the Lockerbie bombings, Libya still has one of the highest GDP per capita in Africa. However this has failed to transcend to people in the lower end of society despite the small population. The economy is heavily reliant on oil and gas, which account for 95% of its exports and 25% of the GDP.

3. South Africa – GDP per capita: $12,000
Africa’s largest economy has an abundant supply of natural resources with well-developed financial, legal, communications, energy, and transport sectors. Despite the black empowerment movement started in the 1990s, South Africa still has a high unemployment rate, and daunting economic problems which remain from the apartheid era, particularly poverty and lack of economic empowerment among the underprivileged groups.

2. Mauritius – GDP per capita: $13,100
Significant foreign investments brought about by a stable democracy has help Mauritius into the number 2 spot. It has developed a middle-income diversified economy with growing industrial, financial, and tourist sectors from it early post independence days of a low-income, agriculturally based economy.

1. Equatorial Guinea – GDP per capita: $ 50,200
Africa’s wealthiest country goes to Equatorial Guinea by a long mile. It also happens to been the second wealthiest nation in the World, second only to Luxembourg, which had a GDP per capita of $55, 600 in 2005. Equatorial Guinea experienced rapid economic growth since the discovery of large offshore oil reserves, and within the last decade has risen to become third largest oil exporter in Sub-Saharan Africa. Despite its high GDP per capita, majority of the population still live in sub standard conditions.

Looks like Equatorial Guinea again then!

So, I look forward to your data backing your so-called facts :}

[Yossarian]

Getting back to the original topic, I cannot condone any form of crime, regardless of where or how it takes place. However, I do feel that a certain amount of empathy must be felt for South Africans who have been affected by Nigerian bad-elements in our midst. Perhaps this fuelled their abrasive comments. I am one who has had this experience.

Crime is out of control in SA and has been exarcerbated by the Nigerian influence in our society. Isn't it possible that our anger at the ineffectual governance we receive of our own citizens can brew over to those illegal immigrants that are not helping the problem.

I am sure ther are hard working and honest Nigerians in our midst, among the like-minded Zimbabweans, Angolans etc. but it is undeniable that a huge problem is being added to our already strained population by those that are less socially concious and in the majority.

Bottom line, stop being so bloody sensitive and accept the facts! SA is a lawless country.......for everyone involved.

[fluffyfan]

TomBola I am certain that there are good Nigerians, like the ones you mentioned, I am a South African by the way....you were asking.

My previous post aimed at AAL was unfair to all law abiding Nigerians, this I know, however I tend to get a little angry when accused of being a racist for no obvious reason, it seems that the race card is thrown about for anything these days.......dont like what I have to say, therefore I must be a racist.

I am a South African, you are a Nigerian.....lets not get into a pissing contest about whoes country is more f:mad: up.

Yossarian (the previous post) said it best, Nigerians are responsible for a huge amount of crime here, mainly in the drug trade and that pisses most South Africans off, the fact that our government is useless and cant cope is another story, however you can see the irony of this thread, Nigerians being the victim....yes its horrible and nobody should be attacked while coming from the airport, because most of those people are innocent.

It it unfair to paint Nigerians with the same brush and call you all drug dealing criminals....yes it is, as it is to paint all white South Africans with the racist brush.

As for the rest of your post.....Unfortunatley there are many Nigerians in the drug trade in all countries of the world.

Nigeria is not the richest country in Africa, I said in brackets (in terms of mineral wealth).....maybe they are maybe Angola is, but its close, the fact is Nigeria is very wealthy (in oil) but that wealth is not distributed to the people its sent to a select few super wealthy.

I have not seen traffic in Tehran, but I have seen it in Miami and Cairo, to even compare Lagos to Miami or Cairo is a joke, my lasting image of Lagos traffic was 4 cars line abreast all trying to overtake eachother, the oncoming traffic was the same, 4 cars and busses head to head with eachother in a sick game of chicken.

[surely not]

Undoubtedly the drug trade in SA has Nigerians in it, I was advised that Hillbrow in Jo'burg was the centre of this trade, and that is a strong Nigerian community. However I am sure that there are also other nationalities also involved with the trade ................... not least the users who I imagine are mainly South African.

So which came first, chicken or egg, user or supplier?

On the subject of traffic, I put forward Colombo in Sri Lanka as the worst that I have experienced. It really was an eye opener with the Badaji drivers absolutely feckin crazy!! Traffic in Lagos doesn't move fast enough to be the most dangerous!!

With the World Cup coming in 2010 there is very little time for the authorities to stamp out this problem of targetting by employess working at the airport. As they get away with more attacks they will widen the net to other Nationalities.

Very sad for the victims and very sad for South Africa

[AAL]

The extortionists, fraudsters, robbers, hijackers do indeed target ALL nationalities. The problem is already out of hand.

Travellers are required at customs point to officially declare how much money they are carrying, which if above average or substantial (as usual if on shopping expeditions) is quickly communicated by cellphone to a robbery gang's surveillance member in the arrivals hall, who then tails and warns the gang outside that follows the chosen victim up to the point where they are robbed.

Does anybody want to suggest an efficient or capable police force can not stop and neutralise such an activity in a few days time. Wonders what a few hidden surveillance camera's can do. Or is it organised and silently condoned as part of the "redistribution of wealth program".

My advice is not to declare the cash money you are carrying.

Cry - my beloved country!

[B Sousa]

The first-class pilots that I work- and come into contact with daily in the industry are Nigerians.
I dont think the topic covers Pilots. Its the general population.
Funny how easy it is for someone with no excuse for poor conditions to yell Racist. Seems to take the heat off of things. Call it what you will. Africa in General is run by Blacks and its so far behind the power curve, its amazing. So the next thing to spout will be its the "colonialists fault". For what?? Building things and attempting to advance people??
Everytime I go up to Mozambique, I get the same story from no brain missionaries. "We are teaching the people how to build wells for safe. water." Theres a bright ray of sunshine, its 2007 and most people know not to drink where they dump. "And NOW that the COLONIALISTS are gone we have freedom".......... Yes, I notice, those beautiful roads and building they left behind are all shambles.
As to a tiff between the Nigerians and South Africans, its certainly understandable to someone looking from a distance. Modern Society at least what many call modern is going to continue to take a hit down south. Those in power now are there for paybacks and of ALL those in power, none will even look out for their own as thier pockets need to be filled. With everything else going on there, 2010 is going to be a real disaster.
Yes there are Good Nigerians, yes there are good South Africans. Why do we always have to preface things so as not to offend.
By the way I have some good Nigerian 419 letters that originated in South Africa and the UK.

[chuks]

a/k/a "Get Out of Jail Free."

Any time Nigeria comes up it will not be long before you find someone whining about "racism," guaranteed. LJT's rather original take on fraud, that it's some sort of rough justice served up to greedy whites, is unfortunately typical, as is his seeming over-sensitivity to perceived racism.

If there is some mean laughter here, well, perhaps it is that idea of a pay-back for all the trouble visitors to Nigeria get. That really is rather stupid of the rest of us though.

Just bear in mind that Nigeria has something like 150 million citizens, so that you really cannot say that most of them are fraudsters or drug smugglers. It is just so that relatively small gangs of them make the headlines in other countries when they are caught doing naughty things, and, yes, they do specialise in fraud and drug smuggling. A German hotelier once remarked in passing (when I mentioned that Lagos was my second home) that his telephone books would usually go along with his Nigerian guests, fodder for 419 letters, one assumed.

Is that sort of thing still news?

I was amused to see an item in my local German rag about a drug bust in Bremen when it was one of "de brothas," not that it said much about most of his fellow Nigerians. I know plenty of Nigerians who are just as intelligent and hard-working, more so perhaps, than my average fellow Americans. If fate had landed us there, who knows what survival strategies we might choose?

[JG1]

I see the new tem for hijacking and robbery is now dispossession:yuk:

Maybe they've run out of roads and cities to rename.

Eish don't use weds like 'hijek' and 'robe' until after all the turriss arrive in 2010:E

[Jamex]

Just caught an article in the local newspaper. Nigerian bussinesman passes through customs at ORTIA. Was tailed to his hotel. Was robbed in the carpark. Ufortunately, cops happened by during the robbery. Three suspects now arrested. All three are Nigerian! So, Nigerian criminals come to SA. Perpetrate their crimes against their own people and SA must take the rap!! So Surelynot, re your comment about the arrogance of South Africans? I suppose decency would now dictate an apology from you? Doubt we'll get one though.

P.S. As soon as the scanner "she weks" I will scan and post the article.

[B Sousa]

see the new tem for hijacking and robbery is now dispossession

I thought that along with higher Fees for Government Services by the paleface were called Re-distribution of Wealth.

Three suspects now arrested. All three are Nigerian!
All with appropriate Passports and Visas no doubt..........

[AVSEC]

Is it a Nigerian targetted assault?Thought it was a targeting of well heeled business types,with SA immigration passing on info to a group of people who then rob the arriving paxs.
South African Immigration are the aiders and abbetors of this crime.
So if you are travelling into SA ensure you lie when filling immigration forms for your own safety.

What do SA immigration officers do for fun once they close?
Rob paxs entering their country to do legitimate business innit?

[B Sousa]

What do SA immigration officers do for fun once they close?
Rob paxs entering their country to do legitimate business innit?

No doubt, amongst other games they have devised. More money than a paycheck and little chance of jail time, promotions maybe, but not jail.

[surely not]

Jamex why do you pre suppose you won't get an apology? You don't know me, yet you make a peurile statement like that. It says far more about your closed mind and attitudes than it does about mine. Maybe it shows a self righteous arrogance and confirms my view as correct :}:} So maybe an apology isn't required..................................

Well it is good that the police havemade the arrest and I hope that the criminals get a proper sentence. I also hope that the scum bags in SA Immigration who have helped them are caught and brought to justice. Do you have Nigerians working in the SA Immig service?

This sort of crime is abhorent whoever commits it and I wish the SA authorities every success in stopping it

[Jamex]

surely not said: Jamex why do you pre suppose you won't get an apology? You don't know me, yet you make a peurile statement like that. It says far more about your closed mind and attitudes than it does about mine. Maybe it shows a self righteous arrogance and confirms my view as correct :}:} So maybe an apology isn't required..................................


And no apology was made! Your post stinks of arrogance and pre-conceived notions. Judging by the above and similar posts by/from yourself, all indications are of a condescending attitude, closed mind and prejudices second to none. Particularly when it comes to South Africa and all things South African. You are right in one thing and that is I dont know you nor do I wish to know you. Oh, and you admit to a closed mind, so maybe theres hope yet!:}:}

[Flying Touareg]

Surely Not, I wish that you ignore the antics of wounded lions.:sad:

Cheers Mate:ok:

[Shunanny]

"Methinks that with the cunning and guile of the nigerian 419'ers and the brash brutality of South African Thieves, we CAN take over the world Pinky":ugh:

Let it go guys.This forum is for the advancement of African Aviation. Idea's and not jeers. Crime anyway you look at it S--ks:mad:

[18left]

QUOTE FLUFFYFAN "Yes maybe its unfair to paint all Nigerians with the same brush, but the only thing Nigeria seem to contribute to the world is a thriving drug industry "

And the drug users? why did you leave them out of your statement?
takes a junkie to know a dealer,no junkies no drugs simple!
Drug dealing is not lucrative in Nigeria,as its not a junkie nation!


Yes its unfair to paint all south africans with the same brush but they only thing south africa seem to contribute to the world is thriving junkies

[AAL]

Dear friends, for how much longer is the pot going to call the kettle black. How much can you still flog this poor old dead donkey.

Bet if you landed up unknowingly somewhere together you will be great friends and have some cold one's together and never even realise that you had this senseless argument/conversation that cant go anywhere lest to further insult each other.

Everybody realises and knows South Africa has a pandemic crime problem. Its directed at everyone not just one nationality or race group. Even a few prominent European visitors were murdered here this past week, and of the perpetrators arrested for one - one is an illegal Zimbabwean refugee/immigrant.

Everybody knows that there are many Nigerian 419 scammers and narcotics smugglers and merchants, here in SA and accross the world.

As responsible citizens of the world, and as Africans specificaly we need to stand together and speak out against this scourge and do whats in our power to put an end to these wrongs.

Using this aviation forum to insult each other using pseudonyms at that is going to achieve and beget nothing.

To everybody out there and especially our fellow Africans - please speak out and speak up about the uncontrolled crime in South Africa - we need the world to know that our government is neglecting their constitutional duty to protect its own citizens, let alone foreign visitors.

Thanks for your concern and your support :ok:

[LongJohnThomas]

chuks,
I quote,
Any time Nigeria comes up it will not be long before you find someone whining about "racism," guaranteed. LJT's rather original take on fraud, that it's some sort of rough justice served up to greedy whites, is unfortunately typical, as is his seeming over-sensitivity to perceived racism:ugh:
I do not remember ever mentioning anything to do with racism!:eek:
You seem to have lost the plot mate! :}
All i pointed out was, you would not get conned, Black or White unless you had an element of greed in you.:D
I have recieved lots of emails claiming all sorts, but, like a smart man, i ignore them; delete and block the originating addresses.
It has nothing to do with race, religion or anything else.
Plainly, to return to the original idea behind this thread, it's wrong to rob or be robbed! Be it by Nigerians or Eskimos as hotmj said.
Keep your facts right man, dont go off on a tangent with no flight plan!:=:ok:

[hotmj43]

Some of the replies coming out of SA feel they have to stuff Race somewhere whether it is relevant or not, what is the point...discount offer of the month at SHOPRITE or WOOLWORTHS:ugh:

[AAL]

This thread started off by a warning and concern by Nigerian friends concerned about Nigerian visitors to South Africa being targeted by robbers. It progressed to a point where tit for tat insults started being traded and each accusing the other of being bigger criminals, racists etc, while the whole point of the initial post regarding the lawlessness and anarchy in South Africa seems to have been lost.

But, alas, there is some good news. Governments ineficiency, inadequecy, and ineptitude to deal with this phenomenon is driving the local populace to extreme measures to defend themselves against this scourge, and to take the law into their own hands. At least the public has started doing something to protect themselves - we'll start looking out for the safety of foreign visitors as soon as we ourselves are safe!

PS: Any country and government that fails to protect its citizens is a failed state.

From todays (Sunday) News24 media:

South Africa

Mob 'necklace' robber

2007-12-2 20:16

Cape Town - A mob of Nyanga residents assaulted a man accused of robbery then placed several tyres around his body and set them alight, Western Cape police said on Sunday.

"He died on the scene," said Inspector Bernadine Steyn.

She said three men, two with knives and one with a firearm, held up a 26-year-old man and a 22-year-old woman in a house in the Samora Machel informal settlement at 02:30 on Saturday.

The robbers took a wallet and cellphones. Then they stabbed the man in the neck, back and shoulder. He was treated in a hospital and discharged later. The woman was not injured.

Steyn said member of the community caught one of the knife-wielding robbers as he fled and assaulted him with sticks and stones. They then 'necklaced' him. :D

And another one from the local media this morning 3 Dec 2007, to illustrate that many of the so-called refugee's that have flocked here to SA have turned to crime to enrich themselves:

Diners applaud police arrest
2007-12-3 09:39

Johannesburg - Patrons at a restaurant in Eastgate shopping centre apparently gave police a three-minute ovation when they arrested one of the country's most-wanted bank and transit-heist robbers as he was having dinner.

The suspect and two girlfriends were eating at the restaurant on Friday night when members of the police counter-assault team (TAC) pounced, arresting him in full view of the other diners.

Police national spokesperson Dennis Adriao said the man had been sought for the past three years.

The man is allegedly an illegal immigrant from Zimbabwe and one of Gauteng's robbery masterminds.
He is believed to have been involved in several robberies in the City Deep-area in Johannesburg.

PLEASE KEEP YOUR CRIMINALS AT HOME AND TO YOURSELF :D

[chuks]

That it takes an element of greed and dishonesty in the usual victim of a 419 fraud, well, yes... That is fairly obvious, since the scam is usually "blocked funds" in an account, imaginary money that doesn't belong to either the fraudster or his victim.

You do find, however, variations on 419 that target completely honest straight businessmen, left holding a useless piece of paper supposedly a guaranteed cheque from a Lagos-based bank.

I know of a German who donated a 40-foot container full of auto spares as his personal reparation for being a white man, not that that was his intention! His Nigerian trading partner had fooled him with a fake bank draft, of course. The problem was that his local bank first accepted it at face value and then, once the goods were on the high seas, next stop Apapa, yanked the money back out of his account.

Nigerian reality is so warped that people there often just don't pay attention to what they are really writing or saying. "Racism," of course, is only taken to be a one-way thing, from whites towards blacks. There is no such thing as racism practised by blacks, not officially anyway.

If one really believes that "fraud is fraud," then why point out who the victim might be? Otherwise we get into some sort of "Robin Hood" fantasy, paying (white) people back for being greedy and foolish, when exactly this is a typical Nigerian partial justification for fraud.

"By nature Nigerians don't steal..." is a comment rather wonderful in its way.

Theft in Nigeria is rampant, just going by personal experience, and it runs the gamut from the steward stealing the phone charger right up to the Customs and Immigration man trying to get 4 thousand bucks in cash off me by shouting "Dis is ah seriohss hoffence!"

It was a funny thing about that one: the sign telling you that you could take up to ten thousand dollars in cash out of Nigeria, no problem, was stuck up on the other side of the doorway, out of my sight. I just kept saying, at steadily increasing volume, "This is my money," to his repeated rantings about "Ah seriohss hoffence," until his superior came over to tell him to knock it off since people were beginning to stare. When I turned around to thank him I saw the sign.


I just respond to what I read, and my personal opinion about what I read. I do not necessarily respond to what might have been the intended meaning of a post. It may often be that I get it wrong, for which I apologise. That said, to posit that Nigerians are uniquely free of that human impulse to steal is just racist nonsense. I actually enjoy the place because the people there are just so excessively human. Everything comes sized large: theft, poverty, total chaos, but also a certain way of being very big-hearted despite very hard times.

[AAL]

To suggest that 419 scammers commit fraud because of greedy usualy "white" foreigners, and that narcotics smugglers and dealers practise their trade because of the usualy "white" users, addicts and junkies, leads me to wonder why Africa is so overpopulated with millions living in abject poverty. If this logic prevails then surely Africa is in this state because there are women otherwise there would not be the overcrowded desperately poor populations breeding all these kinds of criminals.

[fluffyfan]

In an attempt to explain why South Africans may seem a little callous or unsympathetic to the original post.

South Africa has a crime problem, it comes from all areas, immigrants (from all over) and from its own people......and you can blame whoever you want, many people blame apartheid, its normally the easy route to finding blame.

A large portion of the drug trade here is run by Nigerians, and every day there are newspaper articles about Nigerian Drug lords, they have virtually taken over hillbrow and turned a once thriving inner city place into a ghetto, a slum where very few people would want to go. So when a post about Nigerians getting robbed please forgive us if we find that a little ironic or possibly slightly amusing.....in reality its not and these guys getting robbed are most likley innocent victims.

To all the Nigerians reading this who now feel ready to attack me, let me ask you, how many areas in Lagos would you fear to tread because it has been taken over by South African organised crime.....my guess....non.

If Only Nigerians spent as much time on honest and constructive practices as they do on unlawful and criminal ones.....then they truly would be a great country

[AVSEC]

fluffy fan,I understand south african telecommunication company MTN is legally fleecing the Nigerian populace and economy.
Apparently the make money from non connected calls and bogus accounting.
And they are everywhere you go.........sorry could not resist it.:eek:

[LongJohnThomas]

Chucks,
What beats me the most about having conversations with south africans, is their readiness to spout out racism for anything slight. This goes for both black and white!:}
Evidently, Nigeria lacks such a problem since we were able to get the colonialists out in time.:ugh:
Be it as it may, thats a FACT!
Nigeria may have it's peculiar problems, but i harldy think talking about them on Pprune will offer much help in that department.
The new age is speeding in technology and resource management. Thus, the things of old have come to pass away to give way to the new.
Unfortunately, here, the Nigerians will be blamed for even the slightest remarks or offences world-wide!
Have it your way boys, i don't have much to say here.
You're all entitled to your own opinions.... Everybody has one!:D

[B Sousa]

Nigeria lacks such a problem since we were able to get the colonialists out in time
LJT
Love that statement. Its only "Racist" if a Paleface describes the cause of a problem....... Knuckledraggers seem to forget that the ONLY reason that some of the Continent is even close to the 21st Century can be atributed to the "Colonialists".

[Baas]

So why do you stay in the UK brother?

...cos your country s:mad:s!

:ok:

[BALEWA]

Reply to baas:
No baas his country does not suck, LJT just has a better lifestyle than yours one you and most of your SA bros lost due to ur Apartheid Regime.

Hello LJT, been a while, whats up with you!

The arrogance been played out here as usual from South Africans is amazing, whats going on here guys, are we trying to be polite here, hell no, its all
Nigerians this, Nigerians that, Nigerians here, Nigerians there, in short the Nigerians are blamed for everything in SA et al.

And we argue, no way Sir:= there is nothing to argue about when it comes to Nigeria and SA, absolutly niet, nada, nothing people.

Maybe we should take y'all back memory lane a bit eh, not too long ago, maybe we should publish some of the findings of the Truth and Reconciliation Committee's Report put together in SA about what SA was all about and the hedious crimes your apartheid regime brought down for years on human beings like yourselves, maybe we should look back at those still missing or the list of all the names published by the committee concerning the disappearances, deaths and missing people!!!

Maybe the Nigerians are to blame for that too eh! Listen here, If 419 and fraud mail scams commited by Nigerians bothers u as a South African then I suggest u take a long and very good look at your country before you start to judge others, your arrogance is just a continuation of the mockery of your own crimes against humanity.:*

It is on record that Nigeria under the then Leadership of General Obasanjo and Danjuma was in the forefront of the world, if not, leading the fight to stop and abolish Apartheid and all its atrocities in South Africa.

Even Madiba himself appreciates this fact:D:D:D

Nigeria was heralded for their role against Apartheid throughout the world, its possible that some of you still despise Nigeria for that.

If Nigerian nationals are commiting crime on your streets then deal with them, we presume you do have a police force, maybe much better than Nigeria has.

Leave Nigeria alone SA go your way!!!

Balewa

[Flying Touareg]

Balewa et al dont mind them.Their beef with Nigeria has been since when Nigeria was in the forefront and battle against apartheid.Nigeria was one of the countries that faught the battle against apartheid.Thankfully we won, and as a consequence we have not been forgiven by people like Baas.

[BALEWA]

Flying Touareg, it just baffles me mate, this SA guys got a lot a nerve you Know. :eek:

[RETDPI]

Sorry,
I thought this was an Aviation thread.

[Shunanny]

Bsousa; "Knuckledraggers " and the moderators are allowing this to go on?
This has to be the lowest WE have all sunk to.
What next:ugh::ugh:

[AlternativeProcedure]

BALEWA, Flying Touareg, LJT,

you guys make very good points. Dont waste your time with the comments you read from these guys. You can trully see that a lot of them were brought up in an era where the black man was looked down upon. As such it is very difficult for them to see things in another way. They are so racist even to their own country men/women they cannot stand the new order in their own society anymore. The South African government is trying to empower the black people to train as pilots and all you ever hear on this forum is non stop drivel about them being inferior to their white counter parts.

They see aviation starting to thrive in other African countries and young black pilots starting to challenge the old order of things and it makes them cringe. They are a frustrated lot who dont really have much options other than to change their sickening ways they treat/view the black man. Dont get wound up by them. How do you think they feel when they hear about companies like Virgin Nigeria/Airik/Aero/Ethiopian/KQ dishing out type ratings, empowering young black pilots?? Try to understand the group of assholes we are dealing with here and you'll very quickly paint a good picture of the kind of hell those poor black pilots in SA are going through. Keep it up boys, you've really stood up to them.

AP

[BALEWA]

I agree with you 100% Alternative Procedure, most of them are a bunch of Racist:*

For months I logged on to pprune Africa and followed this disgraceful thread SAA pilots on the verge of a mass exodus? ( 1 2 3 4 5 6) it went on quietly until it got to six pages man, six pages of you just can't believe what's and it's, that was being posted in there. I suggest you check it out, and see what reasons they give for their so called Mass Exodus.

This Thread stunk and I prayed that colleagues in airlines around the world read what was being posted in there!

Suddenly it has quietly faded down nearly five or six pages, nobody seems to want to post anything on that thread again, I think I know why and I will send you a PM with my reason.

The decent Pilots in SA and I know there are quite a number of them should resist this kind of comments and postings here that tarnish their image and aviation industry.

Out with the roughnecks in SAA, about time dont you think so!

[Flightsimman]

I was in Africa for the 1st time a few months back (Nigeria & South Africa) and couldn't believe the level of racism I was seeing (whites towards blacks & blacks towards whites) !
Now I live in Australia and the way our government has treated our indigenous Australians in the past is no laughing matter, however I don't think this is the case now as things changed years ago.
I tried putting myself in the position of imagining what it would be like to live in Australia being outnumbered by aboriginals 10 to 2 and they having all the high offical positions and I thought to myself (Karma) !!!
You treat people how you want to be treated (Africa is an amazing place and the people need to get their sh#t together).
Nigeria was very different, but overall the people seemed very sincere (I hope they too can get their sh#t together as it's a shame the people there have to live that way).
I don't think I could handle life in SA living in my house surrounded by barbed wire.
I just pray to god for all the African people to get their issues sorted and live as one as it really is an awesome continent!
Cheers to all (black & white) !!!!

[B Sousa]

"Knuckledraggers " and the moderators are allowing this to go on?

Its appears Shunanny, we have a difference in definition. I have no clue what you may equate this too.

[4HolerPoler]

SFA to do with aviation.

Closed.

Bunch of xenophobic agitators. No more black white crap unless it (somehow) has to do with aviation.