Best & Worst Mil Aviation Film and Why

[RETDPI]

Apparently the B-24 "Lady be Good" did fly a back beam, this being deduced from documentation in the a/c. IIRC they thought they were only about 12 miles from the coast , hence some elected to walk North.
The aircraft in "Sole Survivor" was indeed a B-25, set up with broken fuselage in such a way that it seemed to be inspired by "Lady be Good".
It was shown in the U.K. on television in the early 70's. A very intriquing film and I wouldn't want to spoil anybody's enjoyment of it by discussing the plot.

[HH60Guy]

How about "Firebirds"... easily one of the worst mil avn films EVER produced.

Just my 2 cents... Cheers!
:sad:

[Wigan Warrior]

Gladiators Of World War 2 - RAF Fighter Command (Robert Powell)

Not so good:

A Yank In The RAF [1941] (Tyrone Power, Betty Grable)

[ShyTorque]

Hey Shytorque!
"Tales of the Golden Monkey"
"One bark for yes, two for no" Remember??!
Anyway I thought you loved that series!
lsh

lsh,

I remember! Which of your eyes got the piece of grit in it? "Somewhere over Germany", wasn't it?

:ok:

[tarbaby]

Argosy OCU used to do night flying at El Adem and a day navex 9given the position) was to find Lady Be Good. Outstanding!!

[Like This - Do That]

All the usual suspects BoB; SAC; Toko Ri (Grace Kelly - swooooon); Dam Busters .....

The less said about the dross the better.

But what about the films that HAVEN'T been made, but should? I'd suggest a film based on the courts martial of Broughton and his men in the 355th TFW. A mixture of F-105s and a legal drama .... not sure how to work in a love interest (have to think 'Hollywood' if you want the film produced :ugh:)

All I would really ask of budding film makers (not just of my suggestion, but of ANY aviation film) is that they get the little details right. It wouldn't cost any more, and it would give the film authenticity and authority.

[Phil_R]

is that they get the little details right.


S'why I'm here.

P

[Hugh Spencer]

If you are only interested in the 'facts of life' in flying in WW2 on bomber operations, I can highly recommend Night Bombers, made with a cine camera by an Air Commodore. As I experienced operations in '45 I can assure you that that was how it was.
Appointment in London is also one I recommend as it concentrates on the stresses involved in WW2. I am not a fan of Dirk Bogarde but I think his portrayal of a Lancaster pilot is as close as you will get.

[Sloppy Link]

Odd Angry Shot.
Little known film about the Australian SAS in Vietnam. One of the leads (Bryan Brown) went on to be in one of the crappy soaps that have invaded our screens, anyway, cracking film about comradeship under fire, under training, under the table and under the drudgery of "normal" life. As is the best way, read the book first then watch the film.

[PLovett]

Sloppy

Not a lot of aviation in "The Odd Angry Shot" IIRCC.

Actually, while the book was written by someone associated with the SAS in Vietnam it does not portray their operations in that theatre. However, I agree with you about the mateship thing. :ok:

[Wiley]

Have to agree with PLovett. How many "SAS troopers" bought it in the big battle at the end of "The Odd Angry Shot"? About a ten times as many as the SAS lost in 12 years of very high pressure operations in South Viet Nam.

If you want to read a really good book that gives an accurate (and highly readable) account of what the SAS actually got up to in SVN, see Gary MacKay's "Sleeping With Your Ears Open".

After reading some of the rubbish written here about the RAAF helicopter squadron's supposedly piss poor efforts in SVN, some might also be rather surprised to read in this book what the SAS guys thought of the RAAF chopper crews.

[Sloppy Link]

PL, Wiley
Both fair comments, not looking for a scrap. I enjoyed the tale and there were RAAF Hueys used in the making (9 Sqn?).

[Double Zero]

I'm sure you will all agree with me on this one ?!

WHY when films, sky video / dvd documentary makers etc, quote ' technical advisor ' --XXX, usually someone who one has heard of and plainly knows their stuff, do so many, I would say the majority, of such films make simple glaring errors which render the whole effort laughable to anyone with a hint of knowledge ?

It seems plain these poor sods who've done their best to advise, are either never shown the final pre-production result, or their objections are over-ruled.

One can I suppose semi-excuse the things in 'Top Gun' such as loading blue dummy Sidewinders for the big fight at the end ( poor walk-round if he wasn't a bit worried by that ! ), the ejection handle saga etc, as it was very Hollywood;

But on dedicated, low budget documentaries about particular aircraft, one still encounters howlers - I have a video on the Hunter where the narrator talks solemnly of the Rolls Royce Nene, pronouncing it ' nee-nee'...

I imagine the 'advisor' on that one still has a twitch & has to be sedated.

There's also the point that if one adds up the amount of kills claimed for each fighter type ( particularly U.S, and each one featured is described as 'The Best Fighter Of The War' ) - then the axis powers, particularly Japanese, must have had a few hundred thousand more than thought in the first place...

PLEASE give us accuracy, it might be a foreign concept to Luvvies, but it is what this media requires - and it earns a lot of respect when it does appear !

[Razor61]

BAT-21 i thought was a great film.
I haven't seen Pearl Harbour because i don't want to watch a love story.

As for Top Gun i thought it was a crock of poo... i can't stand it when they use Western aircraft to 'play' as Migs (and a non existant Mig for that matter).

Can't fault the "Iron Eagle" series of films...... can you? :E

Or what about Firefox?

[Double Zero]

Bat 21

I agree is a great film on many levels, and has the huge advantage of being based on a true story; the bit I'm not too sure about is the chap 're-learning' to fly a helicopter again...

To be slightly fair on 'Top Gun', the F-5's portrayed as Mig's were the aggressor squadron of the time, though that's not explained of course.

As a UK semi-military photographer I would have given my left whatsit for a fraction of the co-operation the US Navy gave the film crew in that - think of the British offerings like ' Squadron' & 'Warship' !!!

'Iron Eagle' should of course be used for training purposes, as should 'Firefox' - by anyone we particularly dislike.

Re.Firefox, a chum, who is not in aviation, said he'd seen more realistic flying in ' Superman ' !

[Razor61]

In regards to Iron Eagle, they used F-4 Phantoms as Red Starred aircraft!

BAT-21 was made better by the fact they had Gene Hackman and Danny Glover as the main characters.

Didn't anyone like "Behind Enemy Lines?" :rolleyes:

[JEM60]

Was airshowing in the States last year, and a survey was being done as to the best Aviation film ever. This national survey voted the best film ever as Top Gun. I love visiting the Staes but..........??????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!:):):)

[sharmine]

I thought Final Countdown pretty good. Far fetched plot, I know, but the flying scenes were great.

Mosquito Squadron has to be pretty bad. Mirrored shots to increase number of mossies and JPs in the background of the landing scenes.

Sharmine

[GPMG]

Surprised nobody has mentioned 'Piece of Cake'. So what if it's not a film.
It's still got some of the best flying shots of any program, and I think that Mark and Ray Hanna advised on it.

I was quite young when I saw it, but I remember the Bridge, the tea tray in the officers mess and the description of a pilots personality in the way that they take off.

Another that I didn't see, so I don't know if it was any good was that martin Clunes series, was it much cop?

[Kitbag]

Another that I didn't see, so I don't know if it was any good was that martin Clunes series, was it much cop?


Definitely worth watching for Lesley Ash before she had her lips done.

[doubledolphins]

I mentioned Piece of Cake!

[ZH875]

Amazing Stories: The Mission (Steven Spielberg)

A young man is given one of the most dangerous assignments of the war: belly gunner. That is just what it sounds like: a lone airman with just a couple of guns to defend him, in a round glass chamber on the bottom of the plane. He must spend the whole flight crouched in the shell, and due to the exposure of the compartment is at constant risk of becoming someone else's target.

The whole expedition is dangerous enough. Suddenly the gunner is stuck in his seat, and the landing gear are flummoxed.

It might take a miracle to save the lives of the brave men.

They say the pen is mightier than the sword. In this case, it's mightier than accidents of fate and the skills of the enemy.

Tense action and an ending that is unforgettable.

[Rigger1]

OK it wasn’t a film but the BBC? Did a series on aircraft and featured an F3 scramble, off they go charging down the runway and the mdc pin is still clearly fitted in the canopy!

[ME110]

What about 'The Fighting Lady', the film made about a US Carrier in the Pacific in WW2. I have it on DVD and if you freeze it you can see American aircraft straffing Jap sea-planes at literally 0 feet. Awesome ! Superbly filmed in colour and actually very moving as a lot of the characters in the film are sadly killed.

[WE Branch Fanatic]

I think carrier aviation, BRITISH carrier aviation, has been sadly ignored by film producers, even the Bond films. Sharkey Ward, Dave Morgan and Nick Richardson all produced books that would have made good (not necessarily 100% accurate) films.

Certainly, the Fleet Air Arm would have got extra publicity and recognition - the lack of which may have been a factor in the Sea Harrier decision (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=98152) (link here).

I think the Sea Harrier is featured in a recent Argentine film about the events of 1982?:confused:

Or a overview type film about Operation Corporate?

[Ivan Rogov]

I'll admit to having enjoyed watching Top Gun a spotty teenager :O, but this has much more drama and made the movie look a bit gash to me. Suits my short attention span too.

http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=-658681125103734411

B&W aviation films always look good!

[Maple 01]

What is this Sea Harrier thing you speak of?

[corsair]

Had a quick read through but I don't think anyone mentioned it. Made in the sixties using the same Buchons as in BoB but painted as RAF fighters. Ok fair enough you might say.

But guess what? The Luftwaffe flew Spitfires against them. Badly made and animated model Spitfires painted with Iron crosses. I might add!:}

Anyone know the name?

[Boy_From_Brazil]

I am not too sure whether it has been mentioned but BAT 21, with Gene Hackman is a cracking film. The 'Birddog' sequences are really well done, it looks an amazing aircraft to fly.

BfB

[JOE-FBS]

Slightly OT but the directly relevant threads on this subject in the military area are closed. I found a long interview with Peter Jackson on the Dambusters remake here:

http://www.aintitcool.com/node/30076

[Firefly noob]

Team america (double edged sword) funny flying scenes and gives pearl harbour a fair critique!!:D

[Firefly noob]

The boys from South Park doing Pearl Harbour justice.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pM8PrqY5Rg

[Lytham Lifeboat]

Anyone remember 'Get Some In' with Robert Lindsey?
I wonder if it did much for recruitment.

Tony Selby's character, the Sergeangt, was similar to a particular Crandidtz disciplinarian that was there in the early 80's.

[Ten West]

B of B, Dambusters. Both excellent! Michael Redgrave as Barnes Wallis was brilliant. He even looked like him.

As a "Yoof" I loved "Firefox". although Clint Eastwood did take rather a long time to jump into the MiG after the staged fire in the hangar though. It was pretty much all extinguished before he hopped in and fired it up to move it out of harm's way!

I do remember trying my first high-speed blast on my new motorcycle a few years back though, and as the speedo needle wound gradually back down into double figures I could hear Mitchell Gant's inner monologue with "Boy! Is this a machine!" ;)

As regards "The Sound Barrier" - if you read the excellent autobiography of Chuck Yeager (A great hero of mine, whose signed photo is framed on my wall incidentally) he relates how he attended the premiere of the film and met some VIP's afterwards.
He says he enjoyed it as a work of fiction but was dying to tell anyone who asked that if anyone really did try reversing the controls as in the film, they'd just wind up making a big, smoking hole in the floor! He kept quiet in the interests of diplomacy apparently.

My favourite of all time though? The Right Stuff. Chuck Yeager (Sam Shepard) trying for one last record in the NF-104. :cool:

YouTube - The Right Stuff Clip 15 - Chuck Yeager in the NF-104 Flight (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-I5zY-4ZtkY)

Absolutely classic. Was that Daryl Greenmayer's one?

[ARXW]

apparently Top Gun is great entertaining value. The list of errors is a long and ..distiniguished one BUT plenty of the greatest 'sticks' in the USN give it a thumbs up. It is a mix of ..well everything. Good entertainment value, fighter pilot spirit (that's the best part although taken to extremes in the movie) and the best flying sequencies up till then and probably unsurpassed to this day of computer imagery dominating the scene.

Having watched the ' Making of Top Gun' and interviews with the producers, directors but most improtantly with the Topgun instructors who made the film happen one realises that ...sacrifices had to be made in order for it to become the phenomenal blockbuster hit that it became. A long and distinguished list of Topgun instructors helped out
Viper Pettigrew as the mig killer ex instructor who admitted that if he had his way throughout the film it would have turned out more as a documentary rather than a blockbuster
Rat Willard as the real life Topgun XO who coordinated/briefed the flying sequencies
Heater Heatley who appears in a cameo role (along with Pettigrew) in a couple of scenes
and others.
One of the 'Mig' pilots was Tom Cassidy then a rear admiral and former VX-4 pilot flying secret Migs in the late 60's against the initial Topgun instructors and USAF pilots...

If you are a stickler to realism there's hardly a good aviation film. A few of the enjoyable and good films that come to mind now:
Bridges of Toko-ri
Memphis Belle (not least because it was partly shot at Binbrook too!)
That czech film of a few years ago (wide blue yonder??) which had some great aura (...and Spitfires!) although the actual dogfight scenes were computer animations I believe.
and of course the Battle of Britain...

Not a hell of a lot of good films with post war jets in (apart from Toko-Ri)unless one counts the Right Stuff which is excellent and some of the early brit films on test flying...

[Wiley]

You mean there were aeroplanes in 'The Bridges of Toko-ri'? All I remember is Grace Kelly in that bath tub.:)

One real war movie that I thought was particularly well done was the real 'Memphis Belle'. Not the movie, but the TV special made (I think) around the late seventies/early eighties which spliced the original documentary footage of the Memphis Belle's 25th mission, with interviews with the still living crewmembers 25 or 30 years after the event. (Unlike in the movie, it returned in one pretty well undamaged piece, with its crew the first 8th Air Force USAAF B17 crew to complete a full operational tour, and the movie crew accommpanied them on the mission.),

What was particularly impressive about the movie was the way the captain, slightly older (but not by much) than his very young crew, ran his aircraft. It was like watching a really good crew doing a really good job in in a full-on, no holds barred sim. session.

It was obvious from comments the rest of the crew made 30 years later that the captain wasn't particularly popular with his crew, but they certainly respected him. The way he insisted on strict intercom discipline, no shouting, no excitement, just call the incoming fighters in with calm, measured calls, virtually handing it on to the next gunner, was impressive - and absolutely nothing like the typical overexcited Hollywood version of such events.

[JEM60]

I have the real 'Memphis Belle' documentary in my video collection. Superb.
In 1997 I attended the U.S.A.F 50th anniversary Airshow at Nellis AFB. as a spectator. Walking around at 8am in the heat, I came across some stalls being erected. Some of the veterans were wearing their uniforms, and, sitting in a corner, in the shade, was an elderly gentleman,wearing, as they all do, his name badge. He was almost alone. As I walked by, I said good morning, he replied in the same, and I walked on. After 10 steps, I pulled up short, and returned. I said to him 'Excuse me Sir, but are you THE Robert Morgan?' to which he enquired as to what I meant by 'the'. I said 'Memphis Belle Robert Morgan', and to cut a long story short, it was indeed the man I had seen many times on my video. Several minutes of conversation ensued, his wife [2nd one I believe] then wrote me out an invitation to his secret 80th Birthday party at the Eagle in Cambridge. I did not attend, as I felt I had no place in such elite company!. I did not realise that he was also the leader of the first B.29 Raid on Tokyo. He signed a photograph of himself for me, and I was given his business card with the birthday invite from his wife. On returning home, I placed these two much treasured possessions in a large envelope, have since moved house twice, and cannot now find hide nor hair of them, much to my regret. He died a couple of years ago, but the memory of our conversations will always be one of my fondest Aviation memories.

[liam_1]

one word


Stealth:}

[Pontius Navigator]

Liam, I've not seen that one.

[BEagle]

My favourite of all time though? The Right Stuff. Chuck Yeager (Sam Shepard) trying for one last record in the NF-104.

The real story of Yeager's big-headed incompetence with the NF-104 makes for rather less pleasant reading....

Chuck Yeager’s accident was strictly and fully pilot error, but the President of his Accident Board, Col. Guy Townsend, lacked the courage or integrity to call it that way and risk Chuck’s wrath and the potential for trouble from higher levels: Jackie Cochran and her husband acting through the A.F. Chief of Staff, General Curtis LeMay. Chuck’s Autobiography provides a lesson in how vindictive he was to those who refused to support him.


See A personal history of the NF-104 AST by its main test pilot, Robert W. Smith (http://www.nf104.com/)

[Tankertrashnav]

A few people have mentioned "Reach for the Sky", and I'll admit it was a good film for its day. What interests me though is Kenneth More's very sympathetic portrayal of Douglas Bader. I think it's true to say that Bader's reputation has suffered in the post war years. Is there anyone on here who actually knew him and would care to venture a comment? Chuck Yeager's had a bit of a roasting, so dont be shy, but not just repeated opinion - first hand if that's possible.

As an aside Kenneth More came to Marham when I was there to have a look round the Victors. One of the guys showing him round said to him that he seemed to be walking a lot better these days, and More had the good grace to laugh as though he'd never heard that one before.

[Nick10]

The Hunters. brilliant book (best all time aviation novel?) by james salter butchered by hollywood. deserves a re-make with ending true to the book.

[Andu]

liam, we're all assuming that you're putting 'Stealth' right up there at the topof the 'worst' list. I did like the extremus form-fitting flying suits though.

On the chicks, I hasten to add!

[Doctor Cruces]

Worst film...The Bridges at Toko Ri.

I remember watching it as a 7 year old or so and thinking,"Great Film".

Got it from Amazon last year, complete and total rubbish as a flying film.

[ARXW]

i guess you can say that for ANY film. I've stopped trying to see if there are ANY good aviation films. There's so many parameters to consider.. really. You couldn't possibly satisfy everyone which is why you satisfy the masses, therefore, realism out of the window (not entirely necessary but to at least some extent). I saw TokoRi as a teenager and liked it a lot. I'd probably say the same thing as you today...who knows.

I guess Viper Pettigrew (the real Viper and Topgun instructor by ...invitation:ok:) said it best: ''If I had it my way it would turn out more of a documentary than a movie". If aviations films are to be enjoyable to the masses rather than the few aircrew and a few maniacs (like me) watchin'em then they have to move away from realism by definition me thinks...

You want accurate portrayal of proper (kick-a$$) USN tactical flying? Picture Tom Cruise and his backseater (no shades on), visors down (no pretty eyes for the gals I'm afraid), combat spread (Iceman off to starboard and a tiny dot on the horizon), 20mile AIM-7 shots, sound comin on to the effect of the Jaws as the movie fanatic is biting his/her finger nails watchin a thin white trail of smoke then switchin to the backseat and watching Goose's radar screen and the enemy Dot disappearing from screen! Fantastic! Then instead of the "heeeeeeeehuuh" triumphant rt transmission you'd get something like a "vector 330, lets get the hell outta here" (which is similar to what the Tomcat leader said in the 1989 Libyan Mig shootdown).

Aviation films probable struggle making money because you're tryin to make money out a very specialised...hobby.. by tryin to make it appealing to the masses as well.

Far better and more realistic war films out there and pleased to say the newest as well.

Band of Brothers: excellent portrayal of company atmosphere!!

[GPMG]

Fair point ARXW.
In that case perhaps they could make a good WW1 movie.

The Blue Max?
The Great Waldo Pepper? (ok WW1 ish)

[ARXW]

coming to think of it there is in fact a good number of movies with both aura and which are also very enjoyable. Blue Max is one of them. Now I think more than ever (ok even submitting to the computer animation inevitability) one is bound to make a top production with loads of realism (bearing of course in mind that realism transferred to the screen would not necessarily be very exciting)

i thought memphis belle was very enjoyable and brought across to the viewer the realities and horror of the total air war over Europe in WW2. True, most of the things pictured as having happened on that final mission did not occur but if a portrayal of horror and awe (and indeed if a grasp of the reality was to be achieved) then the film makers had to put as many instances of 'what can go wrong over Germany at 30,000ft' as possible into one single mission: not accurate although reality is many a time (in war) stranger than fiction and these things have in fact happened to hapless individuals (Robert Johnson, P-47 ace, comes to mind and his epic survival of after being shot up very severely and many times over by Luftwaffe fighters on the way back from an escort mission-including Luftwaffe ace Egon Mayer)

The documentary on Memphis Belle was excellent by the way but obviously wouldn't exactly make a box office hit nowadays.

Some films have what I'd call quite a special aura and I'd put Bridges of Toko-Ri in there. The Hunters I've regrettably never read although for me it has great aura too (I guess I'm awe of Korean war battles including the F-86 v Mig-15 battles)

[Hamish 123]

Without the book's ending, the film of "The Hunters" misses the whole point of the book.

[liam_1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stealth_(film)

Waste of 2 hours:ugh:

[Chugalug2]

Worst ever aviation film:
Fate is the Hunter.
Why? Because it had almost nothing in common with the eponymous book, my all time favourite Aviation Book (part military, anyway!).
Best ever military aviation film:
The Memphis Belle: A Story of a Flying Fortress; Producer William Wyler (1944)
Why? Because it is a fitting tribute to all those who fought, and the many that died, in the daytime Bombing Campaign of WW2. Watch it (for free!) here:
Internet Archive: Free Download: The Memphis Belle: A Story of a Flying Fortress (http://www.archive.org/details/TheMemphisBelleAStoryofaFlyingFortress)

[mick2088]

Purely aviation? Worst Top Gun. Never liked it when it came out, still don't get it. Best one Aces High from 1976, albeit being a rehash of Journey's End.. in the sky. Similar The Dawn Patrol from 1938.

[dead_pan]

Flight of the Intruder is one of me personal faves. Also liked Aces High.

I think Top Gun falls squarely into the category 'so bad its brilliant'

[JonnyT1978]

Top Gun - love the Tomcat so it's definitely in, despite the Gay undertones and the ability to pick holes in it all day long

Flight of the Intruder - all round quality film

BoB - another definite for the lines ('Silence in Polish' etc.) the flying but mainy for the sound of the Merlins :)

Wasn't there a Kevin Costner film where he got a flight in the back seat (RIO's seat) of a Tomcat as a farewell/retirement flight and was given a wild ride over/through the Grand Canyon? The rest of the film was a dull courtroom drama but the first 10 minutes or so are memorable.

[D.A.W.]

I need to inform a lot of your writers that these are the correct designations for American warplanes:

B - 52, F - 86, P - 47, B - 17, C - 130, KC - 135, P - 3, SR - 71, F - 15, etc.
The same applies to most civilian aircraft, such as the DC - 10, MD - 11, and L - 1011.
Exception: Boeing 737, Boeing 747, Boeing 767, etc.

The hyphen is just as much a part of their designations as any of the other letters and numbers.

People of other nationalities, and especially the British, need to get this through their skulls.

D.A.W.

[abeaumont]

What an exciting first post....

You wrote

"B - 52, F - 86, P - 47, B - 17, C - 130, KC - 135, P - 3, SR - 71, F - 15, etc.
The same applies to most civilian aircraft, such as the DC - 10, MD - 11, and L - 1011."

Should that not be:

"B-52, F-86, P-47, B-17, C-130, KC-135, P-3, SR-71, F-15 etc. The same applies to most civilian aircraft, such as the DC-10, MD-11, and L-1011."

Pedantic, isn't it?

Best film? The Battle of Britain.

[Tashengurt]

Top Gun. I hadn't realised quite how camp this film was until I watched it recently. Especially the bloke screaming that he wants some butts. Hilarious. Bound to be a favourite with any -F14 fans.

[Old-Duffer]

I say D.A.W, pretty sharp first post, Old Boy - you've ruffled a lot of feathers this side of the pond and there'll be a few chaps having to lie down or take a swift tincture to calm the nerves.

What an enormous social gaff, getting an aircraft's designation wrong; much more serious than putting a Maverick into the side of a Brit tank which has a bloody great union jack painted on the roof.

By the way; we Brits don't have 'skulls', we have 'Cranial Covering'

Welcome to pprune.org

Old Duffer

[Pontius Navigator]

By the way; we Brits don't have 'skulls', we have 'Cranial Covering'
Which reminds me, many, many years ago, and from this perspective not that long after NATO was formed, one Ian Topping was serving at a NATO HQ in Schleswig Holstein during an exercise.

An air raid warning was sounded and the senior Luftwaffe officer duly donned his coal-scuttle while Ian continued to wear his SD Hat (one did in those days).

"Vhy do you British not wear zee helmet?"

"We have thick skulls which is why we won the war."

[B Fraser]

Another thumbs up for 633 Squadron. The Blue Max was rather good too as was Memphis Belle.

Pearl Harbour was a real lemon. Top Gun was total shyte if you ignore the excellent flying shots and a lifetime's worth of quotes that can be quite funny in the circuit at any local flying club.

D.A.W., was the designation "B" for B-17 totally correct as I recall it was originally a maritime patrol aircraft before being converted to a medium bomber ? The excellent Catalina had a PBY designation hence the question.

[Finningley Boy]

So many candidates for the Best; Battle of Britain, 633 Squadron, The Dam Busters, Tora Tora Tora, Midway, Appointment in London, Memphis Belle, 12 'O' Clock High, Angels One Five, First of the Few, Journey Together, High Flight and that one with John Mills as an A20 Pilot (Pilot Officer Penrose).:ok:

So many candidates for the worst; Iron Eagle series, Pearl Harbour, Top Gun.:p

FB:)

[Pontius Navigator]

How about the one with the F117 transferring SF in to the belly of a 747?

I liked where Gathering of Eagles and there was another of that genre, Strategic Air Command with B47s on alert off Newfoundland and later an ORIT to Japan and starring the B36.

[Jayand]

Star wars!

[Bob Viking]

I just love the way everyone is jumping on the bandwagon and refusing to admit that they love Top Gun.
I know it's about as believable as a used car dealer but it changed my life. I first saw it when I was 12 and it's the reason I'm where I am today (flying jets, not in a gay bar before anyone gets clever!).
I even cried when Goose died. Had I realised back then that he was basically just a navigator I probably wouldn't have minded so much!
BV;)

[Alber Ratman]

Wasn't Iron Eagle then Bob? Same era and no navigators either!

Just totally unbelievable! :E

I joined the RAF because I watched the recruiting film, "12 Sqn Buccaneers." :E

Quality music that sometimes still gets played in the car, Quality aircraft and mental groundcrew (as I found out 5 years later!:E)

Oh, that had Tomcats in it too!:eek:

[Kiltrash]

Best film, Dr Strangelove.
Thought provoking with US fingers on the button

Worst film Independance Day
For the same reasoning re Top Gun, Camp and Gung Ho

[Wensleydale]

People of other nationalities, and especially the British, need to get this through their skulls.

D.A.W.



P-rat.

(if that is correct?)

[A A Gruntpuddock]

Hot shots - only because I get to see Gnats!

[Willard Whyte]

Good for you D.A.W.

'bout time the pedant assholes who mince around here were given a taste of their own medicine.

If they don't like it, they shouldn't dish it.

[Scuttled]

Biggles: Adventures in Time

It honestly doesn't get any worse. I don't think it is even put on daytime tv for the kids in the school holidays. Probably would qualify as a form of abuse.

Good ones............

Dr Strangelove
Aces High
Top Gun
A Bridge too Far (kind of qualifies I'd say)

[Old-Duffer]

If one is allowed a TV 'mini-series' then for me, the best film has to be "Band of Brothers".

Old Duffer

[Old-Duffer]

The great sadness for me in watching Richar O'Sullivan playing at being a Harrier pilot was that, standing in the background, is a chap called Chris Humphrey. Chris was ex-20 sqn Hunters from Tengah days and he was to meet his end a just a few weeks later when his Harrier crashed at Wildenrath whilst carrying out a demo for (I think) the Swiss Air Force.

O-D

[Barksdale Boy]

Thread drift, I know, but good to be reminded of Ian Topping - one of several excellent O/C BNSs at Waddo in the late 60s/early 70s. I think Ian came between Bill Cooper and the unforgettable Gordon MacLachlan.

[Tankertrashnav]

I think you are all being a bit hard on D.A.W. Obviously he wasnt serious, but just doing a troll post intended to provoke a reaction.

Wasn't he?

[teeteringhead]

Good Lord Ttn - you're not accusing a "cousin" of irony are you? :O

[Pontius Navigator]

How about True Lies or Blue Thunder?

[robin]

Biggles: Adventures in Time

It honestly doesn't get any worse. I don't think it is even put on daytime tv for the kids in the school holidays. Probably would qualify as a form of abuse.


Try Flyboys. What a heap of sh*te.

[Biggus]

PN,

Given a choice between True Lies and Battle of Britain....well, BoB is obviously the better aviation film by far.

However, if I had to pick between the sequences involving Susannah York and Jamie Lee Curtis then.....!!














This is a tongue in cheek comment guys - nothing disrespectful is intended to the memory of that fine actress Susannah York.

[Molemot]

I was reminded of "Biggles...Adventures in Time" some years ago, whilst arriving at North Weald by Gazelle to find a Vickers Vimy in the circuit.....
A quick glance down at the M11 showed that, whatever the explanation, it wasn't us that had time shifted....!

Somewhat later I met Peter McMillan and he told me of the aeroplanes later exploits!

Best films...."Flight of the Intruder" and "Journey Together"

[oldgrubber]

Got to be Bat 21, That steely eyed Sea King pilot rules

[NorthernKestrel]

Crikey 'Biggles - adventures in time' there's a blast from the past...

Remember being excited as a nipper that Biggles film was coming out and then being utterly let-down by it - time travel? sound weapons? Flying a Bell 206 with no type rating? EH??

What was nuts about this was the source material (discounting the lack of love interest apart from the Marta Hari-style spy who breaks Biggles' heart) is rich enough anyway... messenger pigeons that go through the prop, ghostly empty aircraft landing themselves, decoy 'sitters' that have to be dealt with, (and comrades avenged), plus dropping off enemy agents behind enemy lines... And thats just the stuff off the top of my head I can recall.

Add in some of the 'stranger than fiction' REAL stuff that happened (eg Louis Strange hanging on to a jammed Lewis upside down) and done properly it'd be a corker....

[Pontius Navigator]

How about that training film of the Vulcan having to ditch on the Atlantic ECM training run? Silver bone domes, no visors, orange life jackets and blue flying suits.

[CathayBrat]

Those magnificent men in their flying machines. Bloody brilliant
Airplane 1&2 (mil bit being his "flashbacks"), still funny
Hot shots, love the Gnats

Worst? The list is long and etc......

[melmothtw]

Might have already been mentioned, but Deadly Encounter with Larry Hagman gets my vote. No CGI, some great MD 500 flying sequences and a top story line to boot.

It's a bit odd when people laud 633 Squadron (probably the ropiest special effects I've ever seen) and then decry Pearl Harbor for its appaulling CGI.

PS: I'm not trying to defend Peal Harbor - it was truely awful from start to finish....

[LowObservable]

One-vector thread drift coming up...

Anyone else here familiar with the French illustrated versions of Biggles?

Biggles - BD, informations, cotes (http://www.bedetheque.com/serie-7731-BD-Biggles.html)

Remarkably faithful to the original, and very neatly drawn.

And not the only French BD (bande desinee - it's a bit inaccurate to call them comic books) to deal with subjects of interest to PPruners...

http://www.neuvieme-art.com/images/actus/le-grand-duc-prix-du-salon-de-la-bd-aeronautique-2009-01.jpg

Nice P-63 you have there, comrade...

[Pontius Navigator]

It's a bit odd when people laud 633 Squadron (probably the ropiest special effects I've ever seen)

Probably one of the last war films that didn't strive for absolute authenticity of the props. 633 Squadron movie mistakes, goofs and bloopers (http://www.moviemistakes.com/film1938). The Land Rover in an early sequence stood out like a sore thumb. The Longest Day of a similar vintage worked hard to get authentic vehicles and kit.

I always remember 633 Sqn in 1964 as it was in 633 block at Changhi Officers' Mess that we stayed in after our jungle survival course. Never found out whether it was a standard building works number or after the sqn.

[Strangelove PhD]

I’m very surprised that no film has been made to chronicle the life and times of Butch O’Hare.
The story would need little ‘Hollywoodising’ to make a great true story film (my favorite type).
I always take time out in Chicago to visit the memorial and often find it amazing that, despite the Airport being packed and despite there being hoards of service personnel passing through, I am generally the only person occupying the tribute.
For those of you wishing to know about Lt. Cdr. Edward ‘Butch’ O’Hare, here are a couple of links:
Edward "Butch" O'Hare (1914-1943) (http://www.historyofwar.org/articles/people_butch_ohare.html)
Edward O'Hare - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_O'Hare)

[Alber Ratman]

"Les Chevaliers du ciel".. AKA "The Aeronauts". Top Gun of its day!:E

[vespasia]

With you all the way Alber -Les Chevaliers du Ciel has some stunning flying scenes, plus I remember watching The aeronauts when I was about 6 in the summer hols. I've been entranced by Mirages ever since!

:D

[Alber Ratman]

A few clips of the series on Youtube, unfortunately none of the flying apart from a MS Fight Sim generated cover of the opening titles..

YouTube - Les Chevaliers du ciel 1967 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-qhSIxBGWg)


Always remember the blond bloke crash landing a Dassault Mystere in some arid terrain, saying "I am going to pancake!" in the dodgy French accented dubbing, on his VHF.. Don't know why I remember it, must have been about 72 (I was 6 then as well!)

Oh, there was an annual as well..

YouTube - TANGUY I LAVERDURE INTEGRAL #1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mqUWbLlf3A&feature=related)

Build your own Squadron of cardboard Jaguar A's !!:ok:

[Northernskyuk]

This one is a bit unorthodox, and I'll probably be crucified for admitting it, but whilst living in Japan I got into this anime series called Area 88. It's about mercenary pilots in some fictional place, I don't really remember.
It's brainless fun; ridiculous dogfights scored to cheesy '90s eurobeat, invariably with some dramatic(/sarcasm) twist and heartwarming moral to the story.

YouTube - Area 88 F-8 vs MiG-21 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HN7n-RNOjFU&)

Disclaimer: I'm not actually claiming this is the best military aviation film/programme... It might be an eye opener for some of you though!

[Nick10]

best aviation movie hands down - the bridges at toko ri.

brilliant flying sequences. got the aircraft right and it's got a nice plot - a tear jerker even.

and it's got grace kelly.

what more could a man want?

[Scuttled]

Never heard of it, bit upset, lost all interest in the military aviation thread when you mentioned Grace Kelly.

Now that were a pretty lady, that were. Seriously, movie any good?

[Fubaar]

The Bridges of Toko Ri? Great movie - (the bathhouse scene... Grace Kelly at her late 20s maybe early 30s comliest... starkers... and in public!!!, and for the ladies, Bill Holden likewise).

Oh, and terrific flying scenes.

An even better book - but no Grace Kelly.

[Saint Jack]

In the movie, wasn't Mickey Rooney the eccentric helicopter pilot who flew wearing a top hat? It must be 40-some years since I last saw this movie.

[JEM60]

Yes, it was Rooney.

[polecat2]

Excellent movie, but the Panthers are F9F-4s instead of F9F-2s (note the taller fin). However this does not detract.
The film, starring William Holden, Grace Kelly and Mickey Rooney, is available on DVD from the big South American river, £3.49 new.

Polecat

[draken55]

"but the Panthers are F9F-4s instead of F9F-2s (note the taller fin)"

Where do we get these men?:E

[NutherA2]

Excellent movie, but the Panthers are F9F-4s instead of F9F-2s
In the interests of pedantry, it's time to point out that in the book, James Michener wrote about McDonnell Banshees, not Grumman Panthers:8

[TheOttersNest]

Well from reading this thread... my fingers are urging on typing "Top Gun" but lets be honest as a British citizen, it would demoralise me and ruin my integrity to the RAF. Therefore BoB has to be the one! Awesome film with amazing explosions. However, the short film of 'First Light' broadcasted on BBC2 i believe was extremely entertaining and showed off the spit pretty damn well!!!!!

[Nick10]

great movie. very sad ending. and for the rivet-counters/pedants, it's about as accurate as you are going to get (yes, i know, the book had banshees. yes it uses F9F-4s instead of F9F-2s). i think the skyraider even makes an appearance at one point.

i found it on a torrent recently and downloaded. but most of the best bits are on youtube. can't see the grace kelly bathhouse scene there though :}

YouTube - "THE BRIDGES AT TOKO-RI" - Low Fuel Carrier Landing (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAdwasXRJhs)

[Dan Winterland]

''One to stir the heartstrings: the Chipmunk AEF film, staring Paul Young (before he got his record contract!) as John Andrews.
Those immortal lines:
"Jump jump John"!
"Jump jump Sir"!!!!

Why did he not get an Oscar???'''

Ha ha! Not the same Paul Young I'm afraid. The one in the film is an old mate of mine and used to to out with my sister! He got the part as Cadet John Andrews because his Dad was the boss of the AEF (Benson) and it's his Dad doing the flying. I'm still in touch with Paul and keep threatening to embarrass him by uploading the film to You Tube - I have a copy. But it's an SSVC film and they're pretty hot on copyright.



Best: Battle of Britain. (An epic in the true sense of the word - and fairly accurate)

Worst: Pearl Harbour. (Cheesy beyond belief).

Also good: Catch 22, Flight of the Intruder.

[Whenurhappy]

Just wastched that You-tube clip of the Bridges of Toko Ri - probably 30-odd years since I last saw it. Yikes!

[teeteringhead]

can't see the grace kelly bathhouse scene there though ....cue panto Dame voice:

"Oh yes you can!" Here 'tis:

YouTube - The Bridges at Toko-Ri - Happy Family (Grace Kelly) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfUYEKx9n_c)

[JEM60]

Was there ever a more beautiful lady. Grace and Susannah York both gone, never to be replaced in my vote for world's top two beautiful ladies.

[jetslut]

Man-about-the-Harrier was one of the first attempts at human factors in a world that was (certainly in RAFG HF) 'Work hard, play hard, drink hard'
IIRC it was the first film that we were shown on arrival at 233.
I would love to see it again ...anyone got a copy?