GPS Waypoints.

[arrow28]

Is it possible to create a waypoint just using a radial and distance from a navaid or a fix using GPS equipment? I will be flying to Port Augusta and then south to Adelaide. There are a number of Restricted areas on track and I was just wondering what was the best method to use to negotiate that area.

The Jeppesen chart is quite congested and the scale so small making it difficult to plan.

Any advice would be helpfull.

[Master Red Cylinder]

Yes its possible in my Garmin 3, on the create waypoint page you can basically give it a reference to any other waypoint or navaid using distance. I suppose it depends on the type you use, Im not sure about other brands.

Cheers
MRC

[Cypher]

Yeah it's possible..

From memory the Garmin 400 does it... so does the Universal UNS 1C
So there should be plenty others that should do waypoints from known navaids..

However two rules when using GPS...

Rule 1/ Check the coordinates of the reference waypoint your using against the chart. Pay special attention to the N or S and the W or E.

Rule2/ Re-read Rule 1.
:ok:

[I wish]

Does google earth give accurate enough lat/long?

[Icarus53]

Accurate enough for what???

Within a few miles - I would be prepared to bet on it, but if you are actually going to any proper nav/survey, you would want something with a bit more detail!

Almost every piece of (modern) GPS equipment I've used has a distance/radial function. Even models designed for ground based survey/navigation have this type of calculation included.

If you're really stuck, you could do some year 10 trig problems to deduce a Lat/Long for the required point!!!

[Jabawocky]

Buy a Garmin 296, update the charts, and then keep a mile or two clear!:ok:

J:ok:

[Over and gout]

you could do some year 10 trig problems to deduce a Lat/Long for the required point

That sounds far too difficult for flying...I haven't used trig since high school

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

Make sure you don't blunder into one!

That would not be good Jaba, would it?

Dr :8

[Howard Hughes]

Were you and Jabba shot at? Is that how the wings started leaking?;)

In answer to the original question...

First check for a preferred route in your ERSA, I haven't flown up that way for a while, but I am sure there is a route which takes you right past the restricted areas! Check your maps, making up way points of your own is a recipe for DISASTER, especially when the co-ordinates will be right there in the ERSA for you...:eek:

PS: In case you haven't heard Jabba, it was a boy!:ok:

[Creampuff]

A28

Are you sure there isn’t a bigger scale depiction of the Romeos in that area, in an inset at a less cluttered part of the chart? The ERC-L published by AA has one; I’d be surprised if Jeppesen didn’t publish equivalent info.

If you’re approaching from the west, why not avoid the problem and track Whyalla-Port Pirie?

[Jabawocky]

Gooday HH

No we were not shot at, but that would make an excellent bar story.:}

Actually we were VFRing it with me flying, and I had seen a NOTAM but Forkie had not, we were clear of the R zone before it was active but when I mentioned it he did become a little stressed!:eek:

He muttered something about he prefers IFR coz then the boys & girls at ATC would look after all that;). Lazy bugger!:}

Like I say...a 296 has lots of lovely boundaries and descriptions all loaded into it (if kept updated that is) and is a very useful inflight tool indeed!

J

[Capt Wally]

..................use Lat & Long directly from a Jepps chart for 'user' waypoints. Radials/distances although obviously can be done on almost any GPS as mentioned here I feel aren't as good at a quick glance. It's all about situational awareness. The 'plan view' as in looking directly at grids is easier (nth up for Eg.) to visualize. Personal choice really but you did ask for advice :-)

Capt Wally:-)

[strim]

Track Pirie - Bowmans - DUBlin (VFR waypt) then the lane of entry. You'll have no dramas. It's all on the VTC.

If worried about R252 up near YPAG its NOTAM above 2500'.

Bowmans easy to pick, you won't even need GPS.

Stay east of Pt Wakefield Rd and west of Long Plains and you'll be clear of Pt Wakefield and Edinburgh.

[pw1340]

Arrow28

The garmin 96 can project a wpt from an existing one.


I wish

I use google earth almost daily. It is an extremely useful tool for ag work. In my experience the cordinates are pretty good but as mentioned I wouldn't souly rely on it for navigation purposes. One trap you should be aware of (and the same goes for any mapping program) is the format of the coordinates.
The standard format for aviation is DDD MM.MMM . Google earth gives you the option of DD.DDDD or DD MM SS.SS . If you inadvertantly enter the wrong format you could find yourself a long way away from where you should be. eg 30d59m against 30.59d

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

A28

If in doubt - turn off your transponder, dive for the trees, and run for the border as fast as you can!

Works for me!

Dr :8

[Howard Hughes]

FTDK, but they could just light a match and ignite the fuel trail, Bruce Willis style!:eek:

Yippy Kay Yay....;)

[Taildragger67]

Overandgout,

Working out lat & long of one point based on known co-ords of another is very easy as long as your chart has a scale and you have a ruler. Shouldn't take more than a min or two per waypoint.

In any case, it would be good practice to check any waypoints you work out purely using a GPS, on a chart. That way you'll form a mental picture of the route and might also see marked on the chart, some landmarks you can use on the way to make sure you're still on track. Pure reliance on technology has got people into deep trouble in the past.

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

A28

Give me the Restricted areas that you are interested in and I will give you the co-ordinates for their corners.

I have all of the charts in electronic georeferenced (or whatever it is called) format.

Dr :8

[Capt Wally]

............"strim" obviously has good local knowledge of the particular area in question here but also raises a good point by saying 'You won't even need GPS'.
Obviously the older ones in here (sob sob sob !) didn't have the luxury of such sophisticated gadgetry back in the good 'ole days (if they really where) the thorough use of maps such as the RNC & ground based radio aids (visual maps obviosuly for VFR) was the only option. I now wonder if the prolific use of GPS in VFR flying has taken away or at least erroded the skills once needed for basic visual navigation.
I'm not saying that GPS is anything other than an excellent tool for naviagtion God knows that without it some lives could have very well been lost just the fact that the reliance on such units means we are now very accurate in tracking & that could mean being closer to area's of restriction & each other!
Just food for thought & a good point for further talk

Capt Wally :-)

[Jabawocky]

Capt Wally,

You wonder????? Of course it has an effect on other nav skills. My a/c does not have any radio nav aids, so its Map and Eyes around CTA and the 1 x GPS for cross country legs.

I should point out that not all the CTA & Restricted boundaries on the Jepp database in your GPS are that accurate. Most are likly to be within 100m however I have found over several updates (still:ugh:) that the Class C boundaries west of Brisbane and north of Amberley are up to a few miles different than the lines on the GPS:ooh:. So the old rule of skirting around with a buffer of a few miles is probably a good one!

J

[Peter Fanelli]

If the Port Augusta restricted areas are active just follow the eastern shore of the gulf to Pt Pirie and you can't go wrong. Unless they've enlarged them in the last 17 years or so.

[Capt Wally]

...........sure "I wonder" "Jabawocky" it's just a personal opinion here, besides the newcomers into our buisness are now exposed to GPS from almost day one esspecially when it comes to the new Multi Crew License that's now being pushed thru for future airline drivers. This makes for map reading to be second to the electronic world. But that's fine if used sensibly in conjunction with other traditional methods. Yr other points about accuracy are valid & any thoroughly thinking pilot (hmmmmmm is there such a beast?) will allow for such inaccuracies:-)

capt wally:-)

[vh_ajm]

It sounds like the flight in question has already taken place. But I'll add that use of Flight Following if you're worried about CTA / RA's is always a big help. They should let you know of RA activation and be able to advise away around them if active. Plus you get the added advantage of on-going traffic information.

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

But I'll add that use of Flight Following if you're worried about CTA / RA's is always a big help.

Yeah right!

Jaba: Centre XXX request Flight Following
Brisbane Centre: XXX Flight Following not available at this time!

Dr :8

[Jabawocky]

VH AJM

You are quite correct, however that is only available in RADAR coverage.

Not sure what you mean about the flight occuring, lots of flights have occurred and none have actually breached Restricted airspace, (so far from radar in fact the transponder got lonely:{) but the point has been made where it could do, and the original thread was started about someone avoiding it.

But with the ever increasing workload of Flightwatch activities for ATC's the chances of Flight Following being available is quite likely to be reduced.:ugh:

J

[kimwestt]

From YMML, head west, and keep Australia on yer right!!:}:oh: