About to make decision to join Emirates (aka the stained shirt thread)

[macojedaan]

Hello, our decsion to come to Dubai and join Emirates is imminent. A few questions before we push final buttons. Your honest inputs will be much appreciated.1. Joining on A330, how long is it estimated to command time? With present situation of new Airbuses being delivered.2. Average rosters, anyone on the A330 or A340 fleet prepared to send us a copy of what to expect for an average month.3. Traffic and driving in Dubai : can one avoid traffic jams/dangers or are they very much part of total Dubai package? Are we taking our lives into our hands every time we drive the kids to school, for instance?4. There seem to be gripes about salaries on this forum. Can we expect cost of living to be so high that we can't have a reasonable lifestyle? Many thanks for your inputs.

[777-200LR]

I'm afraid of the replies you're going to receive to this, so how about i respond in a rephraising way.

I assume you're definately getting the A330. So I can't really help you on that as i'm on the T7.

As for traffic, extremely, even more than any big city! It can be dangerous at times but if you're not willing to forget that thought, don't bother driving then. (and you'll practically go no where if you decide to do that)
Money, Money, Money. It no more and no less than anywhere else in the mideast. If it wasn't good, you wouldn't be joining, would you? Cost of living is high, but i used to live in the uk, and i personally find it cheaper here in DXB.

Hope this helps. Good luck

[uspilot757]

Maco, 200LR was right on the money. I think he forgot to mention the rosters. Well, it's been a mystery for many here. Anytime you think you figured out how to bid, you get proven that you have no clue. My experience (and many of those I know) is that you may go all the way to your top bid before seeing anything you bid for. On the other hand, many guys who don't bid on their bottom 1-2 cycles, manage to great great rosters, so go figure. One more note before closing, I think if you ask any pilot who is resigning or had resigned from EK about the reason/s he quit, you'll see that Rostering is the most common item.

[gcaflyer]

Maco,
Just curious when you had your interview and when you were notified. I have had my intervies and am waiting to hear currentl. Just trying to get a feel for how quick HR is gettig back to everyone.
Thanks forany info you may have.

[EGGW]

1. On the Bus currently, its 4.5 years plus or minus a bit. On the Boeing currently 3 years until final line check. The Bus will catch up with the 777 as 380 deliveries gather pace. However, one caveat, never believe or trust what they "promise" at your interview, it often changes to suits EK's whim. No unions, no negotiations.
2. Average month, depends on your bidding skills and like Uspilot757 says, you think you have it figured out and you find they tweaked the system, screwing up your bid!
3. The roads are LETHAL, one FO was killed and his friend here for interview was also killed back in October, fact. The traffic is dire, you find that everyone adopts Mumbai style driving at junctions. The Ranches is a classic. Get the biggest/safest car you can.
4. Salaries have NOT been keeping up with inflation, local government employees have just had a 70% wage increase, can't think why :ugh::ugh: Yes lots of us have a great time here, but don't come here with rose tinted glasses.

EGGW

[Wizofoz]

Hi Macco,

I'm Boeing, so can only give you answers from where I sit. It's worth realising, though, that even if Mr Macco is an Airbus pilot, he may still be placed on the 777. It just depends on the requirements at the time.

Time to command on the Boeing is running pretty much minimum and will be for a few years yet (still around 50 on order) so three years for a normal entry, less if he qualifies for accelerated command.

The bus has blown out to 4-4 1/2 years, but the trend seems to be reducing (had freinds have their courses brought forward 6 months recently) and by the time your turn comes, 380s will be arriving, so I think 3-4 years is a fair estimate.

Can't give you a 'bus roster, but it is a mix of long and shorter haul. there is a bit of everything and, when in the top couple of positions, you can get a very good roster. Down the bottom you can expect a lot of night turn-arounds to the sub-continent.

As to traffic- My wife had real problems with it for the first six months. She has adapted much better now, learnt to drive defensivley, and is coping much better. If you were to be housed at DSO (not a guarentee) and had the kids in, say, Royal Dubai in Mirdif (have friends with kids there, they seem to like it), you would be avoiding most of the traffic hot-spots. It is inevitable, though, that at some time you will be on the bad roads (E.G Skiek Zayed, Emirates Road) and it can be harrowing. All I can say is that we have learned to live with it.

As you probably know, the Dirham is tied to the US dollar. The greenbacks slide has meant 1) devaluation of the salary compared to other currencies and 2) high inflation in Dubai. The up side is that, if you go into company accomodation, most of your major expenses are paid by the company. I think it is fair to say you can lead a pretty good lifestyle on an FOs pay, and as a Captain we are managing to save a reasnoble amount.

It also seems inevitable that we will get another pay rise as EK is having trouble attracting crew, and there is now real pressure on the UAE government to re-value the Dirham.

As I said to you previously, come with the right attitude, and you can make a good life here. Just bear in mind that there are many who don't, and have a very honest appraisal of which you think you will be!

Best of luck.

[cf680c2b]

can someone be a little more specific about schedules regardless of fleet. For example, 1) average flying hrs. per month 2) Average segment times (more than 8 hrs or less than 8 hrs.) 3) how many overnights, 4) how many days on and off (ex. 4 day trip/ 2 days home?) or any other info that you may feel is pertinent. Thanks guys!

[macojedaan]

Thank you for your replies and information. It all helps to build a realistic picture and I am very keen not to come there with rose-coloured spectacles.

[disconnected]

Look at what is
Look at what was
Look at the trend
Extrapolate

Then make your decision.

One rule with EK: Economically it doesnt get better. Many years testing that theory.

But these things are relative to where you have come from. Build in some slack for the decline.

[macojedaan]

This is too cryptic for me. Please explain Disconnected. What are you actually saying?

[kingoftheslipstream]

macojedaan

Are you for real? :bored:

[chofuan]

40-50 hrs AVG
15 days off AVG
4 nights layover AVG
26000 take home and everything paid for.

The best job I ever had........

[PositiveRate876]

40-50 hrs AVG
15 days off AVG
4 nights layover AVG
26000 take home and everything paid for.

The best job I ever had........


Not sure what airline Chofuan is working for, but it sounds like a virtual one. :rolleyes:


1. Joining on A330, how long is it estimated to command time? With present situation of new Airbuses being delivered.

A lot of variables involved in that. I should go close to 3 years for the next few years as the A380s are delivered and staffed by 330/340 crews. However when the A380 becomes open to other crewmembers and newjoining FOs, then it might stagnate again.

2. Average rosters, anyone on the A330 or A340 fleet prepared to send us a copy of what to expect for an average month.

There is no average month at EK due to the rotation of bidding groups, the changes in schedules and the bidding strategy you use. A bad month on the 330 can be all turns with half of them at all sorts of ungodly hours. A good month can be all nice layovers with a day turn thrown in for good measure and a streak of 10 days off in a row. Your top bid you will get Christmas/New Year off if you bid properly.

3. Traffic and driving in Dubai : can one avoid traffic jams/dangers or are they very much part of total Dubai package? Are we taking our lives into our hands every time we drive the kids to school, for instance?

You take you life into your hands when you drive in Dubai. I have driven in a few dozen countries and the only place where driving is almost as bad as Dubai is Manila. There is no repect on the road, people drive cars that have more performance that they know how to manage, and people save on electric by not using lights at night. You get used to it.
You can avoid most of the traffic if you live in the right place and plan your driving adventures carefully.

4. There seem to be gripes about salaries on this forum. Can we expect cost of living to be so high that we can't have a reasonable lifestyle? Many thanks for your inputs.

According to the GCC meeting the other day no Dirham revaluation anytime soon. There must be a raise coming soon to take care of inflation.

[chofuan]

The money is real and my roster is always good, I Can't complaint. Am I lucky? may be but when I see people bitching about EK a Dubai, I just walk away. Keep it positive................ It is my opinion, you can have yours and I respect it.

Guys, if you don't like EK WHY ARE U STILL THERE? go to a better place if you have one.

[Nightfire]

But then, mensaboy, why do you stay?

It is an honest question, I'm not being ironic.
Right now, I'm in a really bad place, flying a cool plane, but with no life. Which is why I am just sending applications all around the world.
It seems that I have the option to either go back to Europe - offring a safe, boring, and poorly-paid life in a LoCo, or to try something else.

I am very interested in Emirates, but I don't know too much about them. I only hear other people who either love it or hate it. I have no illusions that it's certainly not paradise, but what is keeping those people there who could go if they wished to?

Once again, this is not a cynic question; I' really interested.

[chofuan]

I just answered a question about hours, rosters and layovers. That is how I see EK and Dubai, honestly there is nothing else behind my comments.
You are right about the city and the system, but for me is take it or leave it and make the best out of it, if someone is considering moving to Dubai they should do the homework, get as much info as possible and make an educated decision. But never forget that at the end of the day WE ARE LABOR and Dubai is never going to be home.
Some guys come from Europe and some others from Africa, to compare and say who is right or wrong in this forum would be impossible, our backgrounds and cultures in EK are very diverse to agree in a lot of the issues.
My advise to a new candidate for any position is to read and learn about UAE and EK before you even apply for a job. Because you won't be only be getting a job, it is going to be a new way of life.....................

[ekpilot]

Dubai and EK is like wearing a very nice white shirt with a big black stain on it. There are two types of people around here. First the ones that see no stain and tell everybody how everything is beautiful around here not being aware of the stain or just putting their head in the sand so they don't get depressed with everything they see around them. The others are very aware of the stain on their shirt. They know it will never be a normal clean white shirt. They are willing to live their life wearing the dirty shirt. Some complain a lot in hope that the stain may go away. Some just walk around with the shirt not complaining. They know they are expats ( mercenaries ) here to improve their previous life standards in some way (Financially for some, better place to live for others) and just make the best out of it. Just remember this is the middle east here. No matter how much studying you do before coming here. Only once you are here will you really know what this place is all about. One thing is for sure around here nothing is stable and one month you may get your best roster on your bottom bid or get your worst on your top bid. Some people say "Take it or leave it" What they really mean is that nothing can be done about it. If you come here with your family then it is not all about you anymore. "Take it or leave it" or "why are you staying there if you don't like it" becomes irrelevant. This is a black and white option and unless you have a good alternative to Dubai you are stuck here. If everybody would be so smart they would only do the right decisions and would have never come here in the first place if they knew they would not like this place after a certain time. Rosters are mostly an optimized combination of day and night flights to stuff as many hours as possible per roster. So depending on the work force of the month due to vacations, it can be very good or it can be very bad. Not knowing until you get roster on the 26th of every month... (should be 7 days before the beginning of the next month but it is a SOFT rule. You will learn what a soft rule means if you come here) Not knowing what you do on the 1st until the 26th is not so great i have to say for planning the social life. Anyways good luck, good study, and see you Inshalla!

[mensaboy]

I will try to answer the ''why do I stay'' question because it is a good question.

I really like the job in spite of the declining work conditions.
I have no other options at present (partly due to laziness in seeking other options)
Deep down I despise Dubai but I take the good and try to ignore the bad.
Financial rewards- eg.no tax and potential property investments.
.
As you can see, most of my reasons are selfish.
I admit I am torn at times between the good and the bad of this place and that is why I might come across as both a fan and a detractor of life at EK and in Dubai.

I simply disagree with people saying to others, ''if you don't like it leave''. It is a shallow POV because there are many factors that cause people to stay in a place they don't like. Inertia, although not a great reason, can be a big factor too.

If you are someone who is adversely affected by things such as 'supposedly' lower class humans being treated unfairly, or laws which punish some and not others for the same offense, or a general attitude of greed and inconsideration, then this place is not for you.
It wears you down and over time it does affect most people. I go thru phases here, when I think I have the best job in the world followed by witnessing or hearing about something I find absolutely unfair or insane and subsequently wishing I was elsewhere.

It is definitely a roller-coaster ride here and the bucket full of money vs bucket full of ****e comparison seems very appropriate.

Choufan, sorry to jump on you but I hate that ... ''why are you still here'' argument so much. By the way, I do not bitch at work, unless it is for a good laugh, Pprune is my forum to bitch.

[Nightfire]

Thankyou, Mensaboy; that's what I was interested in.

Right now, I'm in a similar position - living as an expat in a country where they need my workforce for a while, but dislike me all the same. I guess that's what it is like for guest-workers in most countries around the world (and probably in mine as well).
Nevertheless, I came here for a reason. Why don't I leave? Because until now I couldn't. Now that I can, that is exactly what I'm going to do.

But personally I like the idea of going to Dubai. I believe that it is better than this place here.
And, of course, people always tend to complain about the bad side of things, instead of talking about the positive aspects. It's natural human behaviour.

I believe that it is perfectly alright to be "selfish" in this respect, and to think only about your own private benefits, because you as an individual are not going to make any difference to the company whatsoever. You won't change Dubai. You can only stay there and do the job we all love, as long as it's acceptable for your family and for yourself.
If they pay me well enough, I can swallow a lot of :mad:. If the amount of :mad: becomes too much, or the pay too little, then I will go.
Which is what's happening to my colleagues and me right now.

However, now that many of us have already gone to-, or are about to leave to- Emirates, everybody's talking about how GOOD it is.
But wherever there is light, there is also a shadow. So I am interested to find out the BAD things about Emirates, before making a decision.

If it is not golden, it should at least be yellowish. ;)

[TangoUniform]

This place for me is like what the French Forgein Legion might be. We are all here for a reason-failing airlines, failing countries, loss of pensions etc etc. People from all over the world with a common thread, we know, or think we know, how to fly airplanes. And what better place to be than with a company that has over $35 billion worth of airplanes on order?

Ah, but then there is the long term possiblities of staying in Dubai, away from one's native country, familiar language and custums, etc. And of course the whittling away of the terms and conditions at EK compared to what other offerings are now out there now. What looked like excellent T&Cs three years ago, are not looking so competitive now.

Now if you are young, no family, looking for that big command in a few years, new equipment, open to adventure...Man what I wouldn't give to be in my early thirties or so ,here.

I guess what I am saying, everyone is speaking from a different perspective and point of view. We don't know all of your circumstances and why you would want to be here. You will be welcomed with open arms (unless you are an American DEC and run into Mesaboy;)) and treated as fairly as any other airline that has no employee bargaining power or union. All in all, the airline (except for dwindling T & Cs) is like any other big fast growing carrier, no different. Dubai, some love it, some hate it, most I believe tolerate it.

[AA717driver]

TangoUniform--I'm looking at EK for the same reason--10 (or 15 outside the U.S.) years to go and I'd like some stability. No, I don't believe American Airlines is "stable". I'm at the bottom of the seniority list via a merger integration so I can get let go again.

While there is no "safe" airline job, this looks decent in that respect. Besides, with the aircraft they have on order and on the property, you can go do contract work if you end up unemployed. Not so with MD80 command time... :hmm:

Having visited this site for several years, no one can accuse any of us of going in with blinders on. TC

[mensaboy]

Quote TU,
''You will be welcomed with open arms (unless you are an American DEC and run into Mesaboy)''
I have never said a bad word to, or treated a DEC any differently than anyone else, American or not and that is the truth.
I do admit I purchased a Voodoo Pilot doll dressed in red, white and blue, which proudly recites, ''roger that, undershtand cleared down to 24 OH, thank you Shir '' , and I have poked rather large needles into it on occasion.
Sincerely,
Mesaboy
(Initially I thought that was a typo but now I see that in fact, it is quite witty of you, actually brought a smile to my face)

[flufdriver]

I have been away from Pprune for a while and especially from the middle-east forum and look what happens:

There are actually contributers in here that are rational and striving for balanced contributions! it is unbelievable. No longer the long litany of mindless bitching only occasionally interrupted by a balanced post!

If you keep this up I might even start visiting the forum more often again and read what people have to say!

fluf

[deplanedeplane]

I have never said a bad word to, or treated a DEC any differently than anyone else, American or not and that is the truth.
I do admit I purchased a Voodoo Pilot doll dressed in red, white and blue, which proudly recites, ''roger that, undershtand cleared down to 24 OH, thank you Shir '' , and I have poked rather large needles into it on occasion.


Careful my friend, some people might find that rasist.:= Not me.
Just do what I do, and hate everybody equally.:E:eek::p

[middlepath]

WIZOFOZ

Thanks for your input, could you kindly provide more information regarding perdiem and sector pay (over time pay). Does EK provide perdiems on layovers ?

Thanks:)