Foriegn Operaters

[Bozo Nightmare]

I was just on the bogg having a big old think. I landed in JHB the other day and heard an aircraft calling for start etc from the Denel apron with the call sign LMG..... It turned out to be a big old IL76. While i was on the bog pushing out my thaughts i thaught that why does the SAAF not use local operaters to fly thier stuff around. Now i know it may be too big or too much stuff or just to expensive but surely they should rather spend the extra cash and put money back into our economy. God knows we need it. people like safair could easily do the job if not then there must be other SA planes that can. besides even if it is too expensive we all know the government does not give a continental how they spend our tax cash. all those shopping trips in dubai are proof of that.

bn

[Siguarda al fine]

Its Not That Simple.old Chap. Requirement Of Any Company To Do The Military Work Is Be Totaly Corrupt And Be In Possesion Of An Il-76 Albeit Old Knackered And Timexed. No "local" Operators Fit This Bill 100%

[AAL]

As you so eloquently describe Bozo, think the stuff you were squeezing seems to also be spewing from your mouth, and now your typed hand.

The aircraft you refer to (and there are a few) are leased to South African companies so the money stays in South Africa (sorry!) and the fuel (very extensive) is purchased in South Africa.

These IL-76's operate on leases by foreign company's to South African company's - just like Safair etc lease their aircraft to foreign companies in other countries. For your information Safair is a registered service provider for these very same LMG tenders that you refer to, and when they quote/tender successfully guess what - they charter one of those very same Illyushins.

IL-76's are practical aircraft best suited for this kind of work, carry 45 tons in and out of unpaved runways, and load three sealed 20 ft marine containers as is for rapid loading and offloading and can do so un-assisted with its own onboard crane requiring no ground handling.

Next time you squeeze so hard make sure the waste passes the correct orifice and take care not to flush yourself away by mistake. :{

[B Sousa]

OK. Think about it..........Somebody is getting a payday..........plus the fact that these beasts live and smile while operating in the enviornment. Drop a 757 in some of these places and it would become scrap.

[AAL]

Thanks Gatties, believe me "payday" on these government flights is hardly worth it considering it is a tender process and lowest price gets the flight.

As for knackered old timex aircraft, IL-76's in SA are subject to fine-tooth comb scrutiny for this very reason. Gone are days of all paperwork in Russian. All logs and reports now in Russian and English.

As for sour grapes - to see kanackered aircraft have a closer look at the old TransAfrik C130's that Safair took over!

SP

[vref+10]

To all the ignoramus's out there. C130 is the designation for the military version of the Hercules. L382 is the designation for the civilian version. There are some differences between the two.

Although they were knackered when acquired by Safair, a lot was spent on them to bring them up to standard including new wings, EFIS, 8.33kHz radios etc. In no way can they be compared with some of the Former Soviet Union rubbish flying around.

Safair as an IATA member of many years, awaiting IOSA certification having successfully completed the audit, could not have it any other way. Unlike some of the smaller operators out there flying with out of date GPS databases, out of date photocopies of Jepp's, u/s compass systems and avionics, u/s or no autopilots etc. etc. Need I go on?

[Solid Rust Twotter]

Herc is still noted as C130 on the flight plan, whether civvy or mil. It's a generic term before you get your panties in a knot.

No amount of TLC will remove the wrinkles from the ramp hinge bulkheads of the old TransAfrik birds. As for new wings, that must have cost a fortune. Was it worth doing that to knackered old airframes with the bean counters of Imperial looking over their shoulder?

[Soap Box Cowboy]

Thought civilian version of the C130 was refered to as the L100 :confused:

[ARENDIII]

Yes they were knackered when Safair got them. It was one of those "management decisions" that have put them into the position that they are right now but give credit where it is due, they are definitely now up to scratch, even if we had to bring management scratching, screaming and kicking to replace the wings-a fact that is not wasted on my daughter, wife, family and not least the good people that I fly with and their families. Thank God that there was not a repeat of the fire-bomber in the states.

[ARENDIII]

The answer gents is Safair operates the L382G.
For flight plan purposes enter C130 in field 9.
Hope this helps.

[vref+10]

SRT. Fact is Safair was prepared to spend the $'s necessary, unlike some of the fly by nights you may or may not have worked for! Whether it was a wise investment or not, is a separate debate. Given that there are few civilian Herc's left(only 65 built ever), probably unavoidable.

As for the other post, L100 was a Lockheed marketing dept. designation as was L1011 for the Tristar.

[ARENDIII]

Check your facts carefully before you post here. PM me please.

[ARENDIII]

Beg to differ sir, if you did any Jepp updates in the 90's you would have seen the civilian Herc was referred to as L100-20 or L100-30.All depended on the amount of stretch.

[ARENDIII]

You are absolutely correct-let's get back to your original thought.
I believe that there is an SA company that hired or is still hiring an AN-12 to do freight ORTIA-DBN but cannot take all the cargo-but Hercs sit on the apron at ORTIA.
Management comments welcome.:hmm:

[Solid Rust Twotter]

...And what leads you to think I worked for fly by nights? I am perfectly aware of what Safair operates, the point being that C130 is a generic designator for purposes of filing flight plans and is pretty much in general use, despite people who make a habit of picking the fly**** out of the pepper.

As for spending the dollars, well if they hadn't sold them to TA in the first place, they may have remained in good nick. The California crash was an earlier model as I recall, and lacked the stronger wing of the later ships.

Also, the L100-20/30 designation was a reference to the type of roller floor, mistakenly used by a clerk to denote the aircraft model IIRC. Could be an urban/aviation myth as I've heard little to back it up.

[ARENDIII]

2158 Hercs of various variants built and still building-Had the privelige of flying 11 of them.:)

[ARENDIII]

I also take offence to your insinuation of flying for fly by nights. I have never done so and will never.

[AAL]

Arend III,

There are no AN-12's flying freight in South Africa.

There are however the only two former Soviet era Antonov 32's ever legitimately registered in South Africa on the ZS register belonging to Valan Air that indeed performs such flights.

Valan Air is a fully and wholly South African company.

If you wish to berate them as a South African company flying South African registered AN-32 on commercial operations in South Africa, think how other aircraft owners in countries where ZS registered aircraft fly, must feel.

The TransAfrik C130,s like their 727's, were scrap. Who are you to judge any of the contracted IL-76's, have you inspected and scrutinised them (CAA does so regularly), seems to me that they are getting the job done cause even Safair contracts them.

What is wrong with South Africans, why do they always think that everybody else except themselves or their specific company are "fly-by-nights", uncapable and insufficient. Is it an inborn thing? Sometimes this skew logic and bitternes is amazing. Instead of trying to walk over others bones look at your marketing and just simply raise your standards to do a better job and obtain contracts and flying on merit.

Get a life.

[Jamex]

VRef

"Although they were knackered when acquired by Safair, a lot was spent on them to bring them up to standard including new wings, EFIS, 8.33kHz radios etc."

Did Safair finally manage to get the EFIS upgrades to the L382's approved? Not knocking Safair, just asking. Still rate this the best company I ever worked for and the Herc the best aircraft. Unfortunately, the retrenchments of the early '90's really ripped the heart out of the company. I left in '94 when the mass exodus began to SAX. Sad day for me!

[ARENDIII]

I have no wish to berate anyone and I think that you have lost the plot-However there was an AN-12 operating freight ORTIA-DBN whether you like it or not.
As for the marketing story-If only we knew???
Russian crews have upped their game and it is about time-by the way have you passed your english exam because I have not.

[ARENDIII]

Hercs are alive and well despite managements efforts to put us out to pasture.
Miss you already,fly safe.