Moderator Bias?

[pitchlink]

I posted a few weeks ago regarding co pilot jobs being advertised on a major offshore company website, which lasted a couple of hours before it was removed by a moderator. On enquiring why?, I was told that it was considered a commercial post and that if they wanted exposure on the forum they should pay for it.
I understand that this is a forum paid for by advertising and I accept the decision, but why is it that other posts advertising current jobs are left alone? There are at least two active forums at present advertising job vacancies in various police forces.
The original post was put forward by me as information to those looking at the forum and finding it hard to get that first break, I have no connection to management of the company.
So to the moderators, please treat all said posts in the same manner, either allow them or get rid of them, but please do not remove some posts because they are regarding one of the larger companies!

[Flintstone]

Being a mere fixed wing pilot I logged in to this thread thinking 'moderator bias' was some kind of technical helicopter term :E

[PPRuNe Towers]

I think you are making an absolutely fair point pitchlink asking for nothing other than consistency.

I've run the place with Danny for 11 years now and the two parts of aviation that can't accept that this is where the pilots come voluntarily every day is rotary and Australians. Experienced pilots are in great demand. Most aren't actively looking for a change and this is where they hang out and can be tempted. Even the RAF have twigged this and will be formally advertising on the plank side very soon.

Combined with the threads detailing the real scoop around the industry worldwide works out for everyone and is a long term gentle pressure to improve T+C's. Getting pilots for nothing and with no effort by managers negates that pressure.

Rob

[handysnaks]

and just so you know, the 'police advertisements' irritate the mods as well. Rightly so as the money from ads offsets the running costs of pprune. If you want to make a point you should inform pprune towers!

edited to add.....great minds!!

[detgnome]

I have to admit that this was not something I had considered when starting my post earlier today on the police ASU advertisements - it was purely out of interest. I do not have a vested interest, so I personally am gaining nothing, but can see how this is effectively free advertising.

I am more than happy to amend or delete the thread if there is a consensus...

[SASless]

Seems a bit grayish.....me and my mates meet for a Pint....one says his outfit is looking for pilots....can I post that news?

If I am a Chief Pilot and I post a message saying my outfit is lookiing for pilots....is that over the line?

If I see an advert....while looking for new work myself....and make a post reporting the advert....is that acceptable?

The line between "getting a feebie" and "spreading the word".....is not very distinct sometimes me thinks.

I would suggest one may accidentally put a foot wrong but have no intent to deprive pprune of any ad income.

[PPRuNe Towers]

Nothing in life is black and white SASless.

However even a dim fixed wing pair like me and Danny know helo people are taking the piss when there's been one ad on PPRuNe in 8 years and hundreds in mags no one even buys.

There are more people here in a day than than the job sites see in a month. So there's lots of choice for operators but they're already actually paying perfectly good money but in areas where only those who are already looking, look.

Here's the nub of it:

Why should PPRuNe support commercial businesses publishing ads whether paper or on line? Because that's where you scuttle off to when someone gives a 'friendly heads up' isn't it? PPRuNers are collectively doing the actual work these sites or magazines are getting paid for. They are getting the traffic and the great response they promise advertisers through you.

This is where you guys come. You've built a genuinely world class forum with your posts but you are sending folks off to other sites that couldn't give stuff about you individually. Helo company cheques are their lifeblood not you.

When the site goes down, the server can't cope and everything slows to a crawl there's only one reason and you guys are a habitual part of it. Here at the Towers we are coded up and ready to roll with the software to embed pictures and video on the forums but completely stalled because of an inadequate sever. There's no need at all to have you linking away from the site other than our technical limitations which are the only reason we've ever taken advertising. This has happened repeatedly over the years as many of you are all too aware.

Great forum, huge traffic, free access = bigger and bigger technical load.

Regards
Rob

[handysnaks]

I thought I'd contribute to this as the unit I work for is one of those currently in the 'limelight'!

I would fully agree with pprune towers points except I think he feels that it is a deliberate conspiracy by the companies involved! Actually, he may be correct, I can't speak on behalf organisation bar my own but I doubt that these 'job position indicators' are being posted in a deliberate attempt to circumvent a paid advert by designated representatives of the companies concerned. However it is hard to stop third parties passing on information to others in what they believe is an act of altruism. As (particularly in the helicopter world it seems), Rotorheads is being used by well meaning individuals for the purpose of notifying other pilots of potential vacancies, I would fully support pulling those posts that offend as soon as they are brought to the mods attention. Perhaps a 'post it' at the top of Rotorheads may get the message across!
Handy

[Kit d'Rection KG]

the threads detailing the real scoop around the industry :bored:

Well, I know my parts of the industry pretty well, and the threads here are usually way off the mark, full of clueless speculation, and often weeks behind... :cool:

[PPRuNe Towers]

Your caveats are entirely fair handysnaks, thus the reference to 'habitually' rather than suggesting my paranoia is any more marked than usual:}

We want to give you permanent galleries with pictures and video embedded in your posts and stored here. Reality is we are cut off at the knees by a thousand cuts of kindness while job sites and mags prosper.

Additionally we've had the code written for months whereby we can run threads across forums concurrently. With this a thread runs here and in the mil forum or one of the geographically based ones at the same time with auto update of posts independent of where they are made.

We'd really like to roll this stuff out.

Rob

[handysnaks]

It's not paranoia...
We are out to getcha;):p

[Senior Pilot]

I posted a few weeks ago regarding co pilot jobs being advertised on a major offshore company website, which lasted a couple of hours before it was removed by a moderator. On enquiring why?, I was told that it was considered a commercial post and that if they wanted exposure on the forum they should pay for it.

pitchlink,

The post that you refer to was on the 8th October, and I had no knowledge of it prior to reading this.

However, and this is a big 'however', Danny is quite right that nothing is black and white. To keep a robust forum, rumours about jobs, or references from impartial parties, sometimes slip through to the benefit of all. Blatant adverts are a different kettle of rhubarb, and get binned without you even knowing, often to indignant screeches from those involved. Somewhere in between are those such as yours, which got binned.

There are at least two active forums at present advertising job vacancies in various police forces.

Hmmm, a bit disingenuous that. The two threads about police jobs (in UK) are more of a general discussion, and have been merged as such. And there is also one asking which pilot is leaving the NSW Police Air Wing, is that a problem?

The line between "getting a feebie" and "spreading the word".....is not very distinct sometimes me thinks.
I would suggest one may accidentally put a foot wrong but have no intent to deprive pprune of any ad income.

That sums it up for me :ok:

[Flyin'ematlast]

Rob

Is there any reason why the site doesn't accept voluntary donations from private users like a number of other discussion forum sites?

As you say many of us who frequent PPRuNe readily pay for commercial flight related publications and get less useful info and assistance from them than from this site. :}

As a PPL(H) I would happily donate for what I've gained from PPRuNe and I'd hope many professional pilots would too, especially if it allowed you to roll out the better functionality that you describe. :ok:

Please moderate away and do what you must to keep the net's best site going.

Ian.

[Whirlygig]

Under your name is the following:-

Instead of being 'just another number' I could order a Personal Title (http://www.pprune.org/ptorder/ptorder.htm) and help support PPRuNe

Click on the linky and you too could have something inane and vacuous under your handle!!! Or maybe witty and erudite - choice is yours!!

You could have a really long personal title like Sassy's; must've cost him a fortune :} :E

Cheers

Whirls

[500e]

Post
Hi I am a newcomer to this site & want help finding a helicopter training facility in South of UK
Reply
Try Big Bills helio School Tel 0276******* has 300 & 22 based at G**** good chap taught me, should this be pulled because of commercial content.
I can understand the commercial side to pay for Bandwidth, but Flyin'ematlasts comment is a valid point we all use the facility. :suspect:
I think a donation is good way to get people to help rather than a prescribed amount, it does work on other sites,

[airborne_artist]

Flyin'ematlast (http://www.pprune.org/forums/member.php?u=197250) - Danny was more than happy to accept my donation - so happy in fact that he kindly gave me Pprune's only two colour moniker :ok:

[Whirlygig]

Well, one can have a short and snappy PT like Handysnaks's which doesn't cost much or one could push the boat out! It is a one-off after all; it's just that there's a minimum donation but hey! this is your chance to say something about yourself!

Cheers

Whirls



Now. With the dollar as it is, shall I buy Sassy a PT for Christmas but it would have to be my choice :E

[handysnaks]

Well, one can have a short and snappy PT like Handysnaks's which doesn't cost much
Cheers Whirls
I was trying to keep my parsimony to myself:p

[SASless]

Ah my fair Whirls.....why is it I tremble to think of just what kind of notation you might provide if you did as you have suggested.

It would seem most appropriate that a frivilous bit of fun could be had for such a small sum (in Sterling vice the one Almighty Dollar) but as I am being whip sawed by the exchange rate and the paltry old age pension I receive for just shy of four decades of helicopter flying in fair weather and tranquil locations.....that would be the only way I will ever be the proud professor of a small bit of pprune fame.

As to pushing out the boat...the re-naming of the S/V Ketch Ya Later to the Luna C....is scheduled for this coming weekend just around the corner from Teach's Hole in a lovely place known to have been used by various brigands, pirates, privateers, and smugglers. Suitable cases of libation and gifts to the Gods, Neptune, Aerolus, the sundry hangers on have been stocked.

As any good accountant can attest....boats, airplanes, and women all have a quick way of relieving one of excess coinage that could be otherwise invested in the support of philantropic enterprises.

:ouch:

[arismount]

>>Does anyone know of a helicopter company NOT looking for pilots at the moment?<<

Experienced & capable pilots may be "in demand" in your part of the world, but not in the U.S.

There is no shortage of experienced pilots in the U.S., only a shortage of experienced pilots willing to take the risks and put out the effort required, for what the operators will pay. Over here requirements are being lowered so that the guys who wouldn't have been qualified to flight instruct 5 or 10 years ago are now flying the offshore and EMS jobs.

Pilot pay just can't be raised...so "they" say. Nevertheless profits are through the roof, executive compensation likewise, and more and more layers of middle management keeps getting hired...at lucrative pay.

There's enough dough, it seems, for everybody except the guys who do the actual work of flying.

Every guy at the master's level of this so-called "profession" that I know who has a way out is taking it. Pay-wise in the U.S., it's a dead end. Barring some kind of radical government intervention (and you can forget that), pilot pay in the U.S. has been, is, and will be stagnant.

[Phone Wind]

Does anyone know of a helicopter company NOT looking for pilots at the moment?

Rotorsim :}

[SASless]

Aris said a mouth full....and is close to the truth on most points.

Very few long time helicopter pilots brag about being so....and will in private express a desire they took up alternative employment way back when.

As for me....gone sailing!:*

[Flyin'ematlast]

Thanks for pointing out my poor website situational awareness :bored:

What else can you expect of a PPL(H) eh? Now been corrected.

Ian.

[paco]

"Every guy at the master's level of this so-called "profession" that I know who has a way out is taking it."

I hear you.

Over just the last three months at least three senior pilots have stated to me that if they could either sell their licence or type rating or find another non-flying job they would take it straight away.

Back to the thread - what about people who ask genuine questions as to the capabilities of a particular schoo/company. Since even a mention is free advertising does that qualify for the thread being pulled?

I can't say I'm bothered about videos and galleries. My provider is slow enough without adding all that to it.

Phil

[Nigerian Expat Outlaw]

At the end of the day there has always been a quick and easy way to donate, assist, support or whatever term people wish to attach to helping develop this site to meet rising demands: A Personal Title.

Sas, you weren't retired nor did you have that boat when you first registered did you ??

NEO

[topendtorque]

Having been away a bit, i've come to this thread and become mystified, even though it started on a valid point. Maybe the lingo has become dummed down. as is follows;



I've run the place with Danny for 11 years now and the two parts of aviation that can't accept that this is where the pilots come voluntarily every day is rotary and Australians.


beg pardon?

However even a dim fixed wing pair like me and Danny know helo people are taking the piss when there's been one ad on PPRuNe in 8 years and hundreds in mags no one even buys.


Well no, this is NOT one of my quotes!:{

Nothing in life is black and white SASless.



Perhaps despite your previous quote of a self professed worldy knowledge on matter aviation, I humbly suggest that you refer to your daylight / darkness maps.

A better quote may have been to refer to a certain well known previous OZ PM who said, "life wasn't meant to be easy." Yair, and he found it out the hard way too.
tet