Air Asia's 'smooth' landings

[stealthone]

One of Air Asia’s A320 very recently ‘crash’ landed and the recorded severity was not less than 3.5g. It was a training flight and the instructor failed to react appropriately. The aircraft was subsequently stripped in the MAS’s hanger and the landing gears had to be replaced.
Some people here may not like to hear the truth about this timing bomb, so the message to them is – the truth shall set you free. There are a lot of sane people in Air Asia; therefore some of us will continue to inform the public on what is going on inside Dandy’s flying circus.
There is no need to make up stories because some of our guys and girls are ingenious when it comes to endangering public lives that surpasses my imagination.:yuk:
I can go on and provide the flight numbers of the said incidents and the names of crew, but this is the rumour network after all and it would not be nice to expose individuals when the fault rests with the rotten system. So, dear Chrome you are welcomed to continue barking and provide amusement for the rest of Air Asia’s community. They know the truth.:ok:

[lesenterbang]

The aircraft was subsequently stripped in the MAS’s hanger and the landing gears had to be replaced.


Really?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v486/paparadzi/Technical/AK320inMHhangarKLIA.jpg

BTW, I think the A320 was in the HANGAR....:ugh:

[stealthone]

Thanks Lesen. Nice photo.:ok:
I heard that they had to strip all interior and examine the structure for cracks and bending.
Man, you’ve just spoiled all the fun. Couldn’t you wait for Chrome’s reply first and post the photo after? Ha Ha. :E

[QAR]

With all this sub standard operation and incidents over this years can some please explain to me how in the name of GOD AIRASIA is named AIRLINE OF THE YEAR!!!!!!!:D

[pilotinasia]

ouchhhhhhhhh !

[lesenterbang]

16th Nov 2007.

1658 LT
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v486/paparadzi/Aircraft/AAYto.jpg

1728 LT
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v486/paparadzi/Aircraft/AAYldg.jpg

[Raj Merlion]

Training for angkasawanship? The Soyuz way or the soya sauce way? 3.5gs, wow! The pax must really be planted onto the tarmac.

But do not be so, so , hard. I heard MAS 777 pilots seconded to Aseana years ago recorded something like 2.4gs in kimchiland years ago, so the airline with " icecream " man's uniform were happy to let go of the MAS jaguhs before they ploughed the runways too! Ouch...sakitnya!

[PK-KAR]

AIRASIA is named AIRLINE OF THE YEAR!

Was it given by the same people who gave Adam Air the merit award last year, a few months after one plane went 400NM astray and a few months before one went missing by plunging into the ocean suspected caused by the same problem that caused the 400NM detour... what was it called... CAPA? :ok:

I hope AK isn't playing "can we bang this 320 harder than the 733" :ugh: What next? "Can we try a high speed 180 on a single reverse on a wet runway on the 320 coz we couldn't do it on the 733"? := Nice to see AK trying to outdo their fellow red devil QZ's hard landings... are they expecting to win with the 320? :D

[chintanmanis]

Raj,
Aseana did voice their displeasure at the MAS 777 guys who planted their brand new shining tins into the runways at more than 2gs, but those guys were not let go. They only had a slap on the wrist and were back as instructors! Amazing, isn't it? These were the young uns who became instructors when the seniors upped and left ( they were bypassed for the 744 ). They had only operated in the docile routes in MAS operating theatre; so when exposed to the harsh conditions in kimchiland, they exposed their inadequacies....BUT ah, life in MAS is so comfy, smooth sailing, so forgiving. So that's why the oldies whine and bitch incessantly, but they will not leave!

[CAPTAIN WOOBLAH]

Nice photo Lesen,

And here they were saying no 73's except flying gas tanks !@@#$%^&:hmm: So much for the all 320's KLIA line.

Wooblah.

P.S. Does flying gas tank refer to ariel refuelling. :p

[stealthone]

Wow!! Lesen, you are the man!!!:D
One photo has blown Chrome to bits. :)

[QAR]

But I really think we cant blame the AK pilots for sub standard operation and incidents of the years.

firstly.

-they are paid like BUS DRIVERS
-treated like BUS DRIVERS
-they are trained like BUS DRIVERS

so the end product is a BUSDRIVER!

the only award i can think of for TONY N CO is....

MALAYSIAS' BUS COMPANY OF THE YEAR 2007:D

[Jandakot]

now everybody can fly...:}
I came for this....:D

[Dani]

Sorry for being stupid, but I fail to see a problem in these two pictures. Is there a riddle "see the 10 differences"? Please explain.

Dani

[training wheels]

Sorry for being stupid, but I fail to see a problem in these two pictures. Is there a riddle "see the 10 differences"? Please explain.
Dani

Yeah, I was wondering the same until I saw the time the two pictures were taken .. 30 minutes apart from take-off to landing at the same airport thus suggesting it turned back?

[Geragau]

Hi Raj & Chintan,
Heard this some years ago; at that time I thought it was just a tembak rumour by some envious blokes who did not get their fingers in the pie. Looks like there was really more to it! Anybody else have any more info on this? We probably can learn something here before deciding to venture into kimchiland.

[420]

aaaaah so this is the picture that has got malaysian pilots talking eh?:rolleyes:

so lesen terbang... you mean you just so happen to be there...at that time...and it just so happened that you had an excellent "aircraft spotter" camera (nice photo quality by the way) and u just so happened to take them excellent pictures at that time?? :D i gotta hire u as a psychic.

does this make any sense to anyone else? and you just so happened to get the exact timings? typical of you guys to just believe any picture you see. for all you know it could have just been a normal routine flight that took off and landed as per schedule.:ugh:

like i said...no 737's operating out of KUL. that could have been a flight from KK to KL and it could have done a turn around and just took off and u just switch positions. come on lah. u just type out the timings and expect us to buy it? if the timings are printed on the photo then we have a case.:ok: so at the moment you got nada...

420

[Chrome]

My oh my, I've gone for a few days rest and look at all the misleading posts that has surfaced.

Newbie, it's amazing how many times you've typed my name in one single thread. I feel so honored you think of me so highly. Somehow you would like to direct these incidents for me to answer and impress your internet daddy but you should probably try to firstly understand that incidents happen in all airlines everywhere so I don't have go to any specifics. A look at the other threads in these forums would prove that incidents/accidents happen to both low cost and also full service airlines. But surely everyone sets out flying everyday working towards making it a safe one. We all have families that love us.

For the case in point I would like to thank Raj Merlion for revealing that hard landings did occur with MH pilots in control some time back. But unlike the newbie I do not seek to generalize. We do not know the prevailing conditions when an incident occurs to a fellow professional pilot. We just learn from them as much as we can if it did occur so we can avoid it ourselves.

Now for those Aseana landings those were senior TRIs mind you (if it was true). What do you expect from a junior S/O in line training after being rushed through basic training when MAS cadets get the priority to graduate? It was an isolated case and a tricky one especially if newbie, you understand the workings of a FBW aircraft. Maybe in (I hope) a decade when you're in control of a FBW aircraft you'll understand about FBW and how dodgy it is to take over at the very last minute.

So much for the all 320's KLIA line
I reiterate again AK KUL operations are all A320s currently. The B737s still come in daily from KCH, JHB, BKI, CGK and BKK hubs. Being so long in the industry you should be able grasp a thing or two about logistics shouldn't you Woobly? Why would I lie about something that is open for everyone to see? If you have so much trouble believing me maybe you should look in the mirror and tell yourself 100 times "I have a hard time believing Chrome because I bull**** other people all the time". That would be a good start to improve your indifference attitude.

I don't need to comment further about those pictures as we all know AK B737s do land in KUL daily but they came from the hubs. Whatever.

[420]

latest info. 9m-AAY..(you know the one u "took" a picture off with your powerful SLR camera) is an aircraft based in kuching.:hmm:

anyway... like chrome says...accidents can happen anywhere at anytime given the conditions and of course perhaps lady luck. so why discriminate so terribly when ak does it? as you can see,the great MAS also have their errs,but hey,we learn and move on. thats where the term "experience" comes into play. so even if this decomp did happen,which im totally unaware off,the fact of the matter is we landed safely and passengers and crew were saved. end of story. pointing fingers doesnt get you anywhere.:ok:

neither does random pictures with artificial timing:O

[WiraMelayu]

Raj has opened up a real can of worms...we gotta be fair to the AK boys; the MAS 777 " aces " did plough OZ brand new tins onto the tarmac. Ramlah Ram being one of those heroes I believe....ram on, sigh...not too good for MH reputation then but Richard did good to smoothen things then.

[Chrome]

Funnily enough, I don't see it as a bad can of worms. Realise that it is impossible to train perfect, flawless pilots. Impossible.

What I am grateful for is the honest people that came out with this story even if it tarnishes the good reputation some MAS pilots have. But hey, reputation is just reputation. It is a perception. It's a general characteristic or trait ascribed to a person derived from another person or a community's opinion. People are not perfect and are emotional when assigning reputation.

One AK junior S/O did a hard landing in KUL and people's jumping and crying AK's unsafe and all that. No one commented anything here all this while when senior MH pilots did the same thing some time back? Why is that? Now that's a bit double standard coming from well-trained, well paid and well rested world class pilots.

[lesenterbang]

so lesen terbang... you mean you just so happen to be there...at that time...and it just so happened that you had an excellent "aircraft spotter" camera (nice photo quality by the way) and u just so happened to take them excellent pictures at that time?? i gotta hire u as a psychic.


Thank you.

like i said...no 737's operating out of KUL. that could have been a flight from KK to KL and it could have done a turn around and just took off and u just switch positions. come on lah. u just type out the timings and expect us to buy it? if the timings are printed on the photo then we have a case. so at the moment you got nada...

You can check the EXIF data to get the timings as well as a few other details about the photo.

RTB is not a bad thing; I've done one myself. I took the photos because AK 737 is becoming a rare breed in KUL, get them now before they're all gone. MH 737, I've been photographing them for years si I don't really shoot them anymore.

Anyway my sources told me AAY did make the RTB due to hydraulic problem. Nothing to be ashamed of.

By the way,
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v486/paparadzi/Aircraft/XAAhangar.jpg
we can work together, can't we?

[420]

i've got no problems working together,lesen. i honestly believe that is what our 2 airlines should be doing and not getting at each others necks all the time. but then again,its hard not to when u got characters like wooble dooble in the picture who thinks he's a godsent pilot who has a sniper rifle constantly locked on to AK and our smallest mistakes.when u guys itself as u can see make mistakes,the only difference is we AK guys are too busy flying and have better things to do than pick fights. always remember that although we maybe paid like bus drivers and fly like bus drivers (what??? fly like bus drivers???:D), we are flying the exact same aircraft like anyone else does and we do it as well. its just our general operations perspective thats slightly different. but we should be working together. i mean look at SIA and tiger or even Qantas and Jetstar:ok:

it will do us BOTH good. anyway our initial batch of A330 pilots had their line trg with u guys anyway. maybe its a step forward eh?:ok:

[420]

btw... u say yr sources tell u that the 737 rtb was due to a hydraulics prob? now... that case i DID hear about. but never the whole "flying gas can" and depressurization rubbish. and once again... it was NOT KUL-LGK!

stealthone...newbie... the next time yr ak friends tell u stuff... dont blindly believe them and come blabber off here like you're the most well informed pilot when you are actually a newbie trying to fit in ok? now you've got yr foot in yr mouth:ugh:

thanks for the info lesen.:ok:

[flightleader]

420,for Heaven sake,STOP mentioning name!! You don't even know how to respect others privacy.What a :mad::mad:!

[stealthone]

420
Your foot is permanently lodged in your mouth. So what if you did not hear about it? That does not mean that it did not happen. Unfortunately Lesen is not a psychic, otherwise we would be marvelling at the photos of a ‘flying gas tank’ as well. :ok: The serious incidents in Air Asia are hardly isolated, in fact they occur so often that one can write a book on what has been going on over the last few years.
There is nothing wrong with exposing the safety related issues in any company because people’s lives are at stake and the public deserves to know the truth. Some of Air Asia’s engineers and pilots keep photocopying certain documents to protect their a s in case someone gets killed. Luckily enough, the factual information found its way to certain authorities like European safety agency, Singapore authorities and so on. Nobody is out there to screw the ‘flying circus’, but to make it adhere to the safety standards. So what is the problem with the Singapore route? I thought the start date was suppose to be on the 1st of Dec, hmm.. maybe it is something to do with safety related issues after all. If the system can not be changed from within then the outside pressure should work.
BTW, I am wearing the ‘red colours’ as well :rolleyes: he he, however my head is not buried in the sand...

[namco]

Hi all,

First of all i am sure not everyone that participated in this forum are flying crew. Hence having no idea about what's soft/ hard landings are. Landing an airplane is not the same like you park your car in your porch everyday. FYI, parking your car in your porch will not be affected by weather phenomenon, but landing an airplane is. Never judge by what your hear, but with what you know. I have seen many cases with fullfare/ national airlines doing hard landings, bounce on landing, long float, even on the wide body aircraft! What's wrong with them? The answer is no. They all know what they were doing, how to react to such conditions. They are all professional pilots flying multi million dollar machines.

Never criticize others, even you do it better.:=

[420]

:Dagreed namco

[CAPTAIN WOOBLAH]

Jeepers Creepers namco & 420...........Are you guys going to make out and kiss now.........................:ok:

Perhaps you can start the mutual admiration society of aa, put on your uniforms and hang out in Nilai toghether.........Or perhaps you already are...:cool:

[420]

tsk tsk wooble,how many times do you have to get suspended to know better.:ugh:

anyway,i have no idea who namco is and am merely agreeing to his statement on landings because its true. we all know your'e not a newbie to this business so you should know it too.'

mistakes happen in every airline,like it or not. you guys are just lucky you dont have insiders like the newbie to blow it out of proportion all the time. and we are too busy flying to care about yr mistakes.maybe you guys just have too much free time. and with MAS downsizing their 747 fleet and all the reverse seniority going on between the 737 and 330 guys, no wonder you guys are so moody all the time.

[Mike Rudder]

.......the MAS 777 " aces " did plough OZ brand new tins onto the tarmac.

FYI the flight in question was a F/O training flight. That happened in BKK. Granted it was a hard landing, but that happens quite often when you have a person under training.
OZ made a big deal about it cos they are expected to do a "smooth" landing every time. F/O are rarely allowed to land the aircraft for that very reason and if a landing is given to him, he will give you back the control at the first sign of problem.

His mistake was he didn't know you are not suppose to allow F/O land the aircraft during training as its is regularly done in MAS

[reawold]

about a month ago a trainee captain on kul-kbr for "5-star airline at LCC cost" national carrier B737 did such a "smooth" landing that one pax rushed to the cockpit to thank the captain only to be stopped by the cabin crew. he was very insistent. thanks to the cabin crew the tech crew were not thanked by the pax. maybe wooblah can tell us the inside story since he is with the training and checking department. And it is rumored that the aircraft continued back to base without a heavy landing check. Captain wooblah being an insider probably can enlighten us.

[420]

mike,

im not sure on this but you mean what do you mean by "in MAS fo's under training do not do landings"?? or am i reading it wrong? it should be part of the training.:bored:

by the way the so called 3.5G landing we're talking about was also a trg flight and the capt couldnt react in time as well. like u said,things like this happen on trg flights.

Rear world,

sorry buddy but there was no recorded "hard landing" at such a sector. and by the way,if you're a pilot,you should know better....

1.how can you base a good/bad landing by pax reaction??? all they wanna feel is smooth soft landings but we all know that aint always possible. the minute there's a slightly harder "thud" than usual,some passengers :uhoh: thats it.

2. HAVE YOU BEEN TO KBR?? if u wanna try landing on egg shells at that airport do gimme a call cos we're in for hell of a show. you float or misjudge yr flare for one second and yr nuts fly up yr throat.

[kwaiyai]

One of the hardest things in any level of Flight Instructing is knowing when to Take over the controls. All Instructors can make a judgement error, those who know me know my background. People like Longlatif and Wooblah do not but there S**t stinks like everyone elses, but they are too amazing to admit it:cool:.
Regards,

[420]

cheers mate. it may seem easy and straight forward to the outside eye... (isn't it always?), but at that split second,anything can go wrong and time is a factor...like it or not

[CAPTAIN WOOBLAH]

Hey there my little sisters,

I can stir you up and have my say and yes I have only been suspended once from PPrune. I can take it like a man and sticks and stones can break my bones but hey words can never hurt me.

On a serious note though, with regard to training. Let me say this. It is ok to let the trainee fly outside of his envelope but it is criminal to allow the trainee to fly out of your envelope. During revenue line training the trainer must be extra careful and vigilant. Demonstrating techniques that demand corrections that exceed basic passenger comfort should be only demonstrated and flown in simulators. In reality the two areas where things go wrong quickly is from brakes released to the second segment and at the FAF to a safe taxi speed. What a trainer is looking for overall is the ability to adhere to procedures and SOP. Not Biggles type flying skills. The idea is to train by observation and then introduce the hands on aspect at a rate commensurate to the trainees learning curve. Always take over early even if it seems premature to the trainee. Always fly the sector if the WX is a bit dodgey. This is very evident in heavy jets. Perhaps the worst case situation in a 4 ENG jet is an outboard ENG failure low speed / light weight on a slippery runway at TKOF. Especially if the FO training is doing to TKOF and the failure occurs at the thrust lever handover point.

With regard to my flying skills and the odour of my $h*t. I can tell you that there isn't any thing I haven't F**ked up at least twice in my career.

So on this note, Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year & Safe flying to all.

Wooblah.

[420]

With regard to my flying skills and the odour of my $h*t. I can tell you that there isn't any thing I haven't F**ked up at least twice in my career.



i never thought i would ever here this from you...must be the christmas spirit:)

selamat hari raya,merry christmas,and a happy 2008 to all. May you all be blessed with good weather, lesser aircraft defects, and wings that stay attached.

:ok:happy landings:ok:

[kwaiyai]

So Sorry I stand corrected then,

[ngapsayot]

Hi Mike rudder..........
Woobie got it right, in revenue flight the skipper should never ever let the F/O or aircraft run away from your safe envelope. Even if it's a line training flight, the TRI/TRE should be ever vigilant and never let the landing " dig " beyond limits.

[QNH1013]

I really dont mean to stir the pot but just want to talk about the facts.
This hard landing may have been a training flight but I was informed that there was no 'taking over' to be done as the hard landing was done by the Captain himself as it was his sector. And the guy being the Fleet Captain too! Also that the news was after all the assesment or whatever, Airbus said is was a couple of million ringgit or dollars to fix. Rumour from finance department.

Hey, we may laugh but it could happen to anyone, even me (hopefully a crap day like that never happens) But what gets me annoyed is that this Capt still remains flying and still remains in position after said incident. Was there an internal investigation even? I have seen guys suspended after an incident pending investigation and even guys demoted for far less! And this is in Air Asia. I dont like double standards and if it happened to a regular Capt or an F/O he would really get screwed. This of course should not happen.

Any facts guys? Are my rumours all wrong?

[MasMamak]

I heard you are indeed correct. Not rumours but true.

As for RR's planting of OZ's shining tins, did Ritz sort that out? Maybe such trainers need to be properly trained themselves before being let loose!

[FMGCS]

Heard there was another hard landing last week. 4.2g this time. :O

[MasMamak]

Ouch, double ouch, triple ouch.....yenge vallekitty!!!

Are you sure it's 4.2g, mighty wrinkles and buckled struts for sure!

[tigerwood]

......But I really think we cant blame the AK pilots for sub standard operation and incidents of the years.

firstly.

-they are paid like BUS DRIVERS
-treated like BUS DRIVERS
-they are trained like BUS DRIVERS.....

May I add:

-looks like BUS Driver,
-sound like BUS Driver,
but I'm not sure they are BUS Driver

[tigerwood]

I have many years as a trainer on 73 and 77. One must realised between a positive landing and hard landing. Most of us may be familiar with positive landing, ie...probably between 1.5G to 1.9G. A hard landing can be 2G and above.

Any hard landing is caused by serious problem prior to that, I.E. excessive sink rate. If the flt is stabilised at the stabilisation height (some airline have different height), even with some strong cross wind (within a/c limitation), hard landing is unlikely can happen.

My opinion on the matter of 3G or more, WOW....sorry mate. Something went wrong, the clue was there from the start of the approach. The instructor failed to realised it. The F/O is a rookie, he would not have enough experience to realise what is waiting for him.

[QAR]

The Frist Landing That Started Of This Thread Was 3.5g On
18 Nov 2007.

Now Its 4.5g.

After Reading What Tigerwood Has To Say About This...

Come On 420 And Chrome What Do You Guys Have To Say..

Come On Mate Go On..................

[Virtual Reality]

Pretty quiet eh......?? :confused:

Sorry dude, probably they ain't got any shield left to protect from further bombardment :}

[lowandslow2006]

hi, does anyone know if Air Asia hires expat pilots????
thanks

[mohdawang]

Ainako! Pinoy pilotos like BIG U S of A, so flying in 3rd world locos not so cool, eh pare? As long as you have the required ICAO licences accepttable to be validated by the Malaysia CAD, I think el cheapo AK will take you for a song.