Flybe To Acquire BA Cityflyer

[globemaster3]

Heard a good whisper from Management Level that the ongoing shedding of BA short-haul ops continues with the purchase of Cityflyer by Flybe - You Heard it here First ! :}

[Cyclone733]

I'll add it to the rumours of Eastern, Loganair, etc

[ADC2604]

This would surprise me. Surely if Flybe wanted LCY routes it would have been included in the original BA Connect acquisition - prior to BA CityFlyer being formed.

In addition to that, it would mean more 146 style (Well Avro's to be picky) which Flybe are getting rid of.

Also, Flybe have not touched LCY since withdrawing many moons ago. Its possible but as I said I would be surprised.

[marlowe]

well as Cityflyer was set up from the profitable part of the BACON fiasco wouldnt it have been better to have sold the lot in one go back in March??? Frankly i cant see it myself, but hey stranger things have happened!!! BA say that the LCY operation is strong and viable, and the flybe type of business is not what is required at LCY ie. low cost and also cant see BA not wanting to be in LCY for the Olympic games i guess they want to be the flag carrier into the airport closest to the games.

[globemaster3]

Though when flybe took over bacon - BA Said Oi! you cannot take this part of bacon its too profitable and thats why Flybe didnt take Cityflyer over earlier in March:hmm:

[Cyrano]

"too profitable"? Cityflyer??? Yeah, RIGHT! :rolleyes:

[brain fade]

Well, Globemaster- you got my attention.

I see you are 12.

Does your dad work in the plane business?

[globemaster3]

Yes my dad is a o'l BACON Engineer at BHX :)

[marlowe]

Globemaster 3 why dont you go off and do your homework or go hang around a street corner drinking cheap lager instead of writing posts about something you know little about? I know that Pprune is a rumour site, but the whole BACON/FLYBE and then the setting up of CITYFLYER is still a subject that runs deep with a few people, not least the guys that went to Cityflyer after the sell off/merger. Or if you say your dad is an ex BACON engineer maybe he is using you to grind his axe with the old company.

[BAe146s make me cry]

Globemaster3

Speaking as an Engineer currently 'trapped' in Exeter, I haven't really
heard anything down here ref: Flybe/Cityflyer.

As your dad will know, we're struggling with the existing aquired fleet
let alone bringing more BAe/Avro equipment into the fold.

Personally, given my screen name, I don't mind of course! :)

BAe146??? And dodgy RJ/146 Approvals c/o Flybe A.S. QA Dept?? :{

P.S. Good advice - Don't you dare follow your dad into aviation!

[cornishsimon]

just to add my thoughts,
i doubt that BA would sell off the LCY operation to flymaybe, based on the fact that it wasnt included in the original sale, like others have said, stranger things have happened but i very much doubt it as i understand LCY routes to have fairly good loads
personally i would think that there is a better chance of flybe going after the likes of Eastern, Loganair, air southwest etc

[dollydaydream]

Regardless of who or whatever flybe may 'take over' next I find it very refreshing to find such an articulate and grammatically correct post from one so young!!
Marlowe - I would have thought that recent events prove that the majority of people in aviation know little about what is going on, perhaps we should all go off and drink cheap lager!
Personally I can't wait for the 'flybe does lh rumour to start - or have I missed it!!!!!!!

[BALLSOUT]

I don't see this one myself, I think the lease costs of the RJ's are the main factor in all of this. I was with citiexpress on the RJ's and that was certainly the talk then. They managed to get rid of some to the Swis (the best ones)
I think when the leases are all expired, B A will make their move.
I would put my money on a few 318's based in London with main line crews and the poor guys and gals at cityflyer will get screwed again.
Globemaster3
Good to see you are at home making sensible posts on this forum and not out drinking beer.
Marlowe.
Shame on you! Don't go taking your frustrations out on children. Get out of there and get another job.
BALLSOUT.

[captainyonder]

Really can't see this one happening myself. BA have just agreed to take one two further RJ85s for Cityflyer. The company doesn't fit into the Flybe strategy, nor does it fit into Eastern's. Given the way the whole BACON take over was handled I can't see Flybe wanting to take on yet another operation in the near future.

[marlowe]

Ballsout, one day GM3 will have to go and get a job, make a living, find a wife have kids, take on a mortgage pay for it all im sure he would like a 12 year old kid speculating about his job prospects based on nothing! Everybody had a hard time going through the Flybe merger and the setting up of Cityflyer we all have a degree of stability now lets build on that instead of constant speculation based on nothing at all. also Ballsout its just so easy to say get out get another job guess you have never stood and fought for something you have put time and effort into.

[BALLSOUT]

Marlowe, I'm affraid you couldn't be more wrong. I have given a lot of my time and effort to the cause over the years.
I understand the difficulties in finding something else, but If you do get the chance, i would recomend you take it.
With regards to what is said on here by anybody, regardless of their age. I doubt it can have much effect on anyones future. Chill.
BALLSOUT.

[marlowe]

If theres one thing to make me boil its that stupid word chill !!!!!!:ugh:

[NickBarnes]

to be honest globemaster3 seems alot more grownup than some of the people here. globemaster3 don't be put off by some of these people.

[BHDflyer]

Yea, go away marlowe, this is not a Professional Pricks Rumour Network!:=

[call100]

Someone is going to look pretty stupid if it all pans out to be true...:E

[marlowe]

ok lets see then, sure aint gonna lose any sleep over it.

[judge11]

I think that young master Globemaster's age would qualify him admirably to take his place alongside any airline's management team, and BA's particularly, who collectively have a mental age well below his.:ok:

[toledoashley]

Wheres the logic - why not take Cityflyer over in the first place? Could there be more chance of a codeshare for BE with Cityflyer?

[globemaster3]

Actually i would love to have a Job in the Aviation Business :p

[globemaster3]

Well - Flybe has got to be taking someone over,otherwise i wouldnt have started this Thread :/ maybe Aer Arran,Eastern - Bmi regional seems to be a big one with my dad

Globemaster3 :)

[Kak Klaxon]

With Big Jims intention to take over another company one wonders if the Flybe CC did the right thing with the seniority list and BACON.

Could be the only company where you go 300 places down the list every year,or would it be different next time,if so how could this be legally upheld?

[Whispering Giant]

I'd look in the direction of another Baby Airline that flies out of BHX as the next takeover target.....
As they have a similar route structure to that of Flybe and it is rumoured that Sir Michael Bishop is looking to get rid of it.....

we shall wait and see what happens with interest....

[Ian Brooks]

BMI Regional, I hope not as they are the competition on virtually all the routes out of MAN to Scotland and I don`t think it would be good news for passengers at all.

Ian

[Anotherflapoperator]

FlyBe a re doing a good job getting shot of a load of 145s already. Can't see them wanting a load more to find homes for, unless the leases are pretty short anyway. The value of 145s must be in freefall by now anyway.

The great unknown was whether the RJs actually were the profitable part of BACON or as usual whether it was all in some accountants political instructions to make them appear so. I can't see A318s for Cityclyer, as the 318 only comes with one engine, and it would mean yet another engine type for BA's minibus fleets. Not good for commonality at all.

There was a move long ago for the RJ pilots to get onto the bottom of BA's seniority list, I think this is a palatable option for LCG, TDLF &co. to accept if they don't get a good renewal from RBS come contract time...

[finding_nema]

When has SMB indicated that he's interested in selling bmibaby, I presume this is what's meant by "a baby airline that flies out of BHX" as regional have no presence there. Although the airline faces competition from other LCCs at all bases, including flybe at three of the four, will shortly have an expensive fleet renewal facing it, did not turn a profit in 2006 and the brand isn't well known outside of it's UK catchment - it is still responsible for carrying 40% of bmi group's pax. And even though BE have indicated they want to expand possibly through acquisition, why would they buy an airline with a totally different fleet and who wouldn't really open up new markets?

[Flightrider]

Why would Flybe be interested? Getting rid of a competitor is normally a strong argument for take-overs, hence why they did the BA Connect deal to start with. Getting bmibaby and flybe together would stop the two of them slugging it out on Birmingham routes and others like Manchester-Belfast.

And I think you've answered the questions as to why SMB would want to sell. Expensive fleet renewal coming up, unprofitable, faces competition at all bases, brand isn't well known outside the UK - I'd say any one of the four would be a good reason for selling, let alone putting all four together. Put it another way - facing that position, why on earth would you hang onto it?

[Ransman]

Hey there Another Flap Operator, how you keeping, From your post "as the 318 only comes with one engine", I can assure you, the ones I've seen have two, one on each wing! Not like you to be so factually incorrect.:)

[gate 22]

Getting bmibaby and flybe together would stop the two of them slugging it out on Birmingham routes and others like Manchester-Belfast.

Why waste the money, if WW vacates BFS/BHX, BFS/MAN incomes LS or EI or EZY. So still competition plus you have spent bucket loads on aquiring WW.

[FlyboyUK]

Perhaps the rumour has come out of the change of ownership of the airframes to Flybe Leasing Ltd a few months ago??

http://www.jethros.i12.com/fleets/fleet_listings/ba_cityflyer.htm

[Flycatcher]

With Big Jims intention to take over another company one wonders if the Flybe CC did the right thing with the seniority list and BACON.

Could be the only company where you go 300 places down the list every year,or would it be different next time,if so how could this be legally upheld?

Poses the question how would seniority be handled next time round?

In the light of experience of the charters mergers (date of joining original company as I understand it) there would be immense pressure to restore that status quo throughout. And certainly not on percentage position of original company basis as per last time - otherwise (should this hypothetical deal happen) you would have Cityflyer people overtaking BACON people in Flybe. In the event of any further merger then "date of joining original company" would have to be the way forward (and ex BACON restored to their correct positions accordingly).

[marlowe]

Ransman what was meant was that the 318 comes with only one TYPE of engine .

[Torquelink]

It actually comes with choice of two: CFM56 or PW6000

:)

[angelic111]

Flybe management said Nov. 12 (when the posted their results) that they were mindful of acquisition opportunities given the current climate of airline consolidation in Europe, but they weren't in talks with anyone at the momeny. If they've got someone in their sights than either management weren't being honest (odd, especially given that they're trying to drum up interest in the company ahead of a possible IPO in 08/09) or they've found a good opportunity in very quick time...

[Ransman]

As BA already hold a 15% stake in FlyBe, then how would this effect FlyBe buying BA CitiFlyer? Would they by buying part of their own company? Confused now. Perhaps they buy FlyBe buy Cityflyer, get it all onto a low cost basis, making huge profits, then BA buy the remaining 85% of FlyBe?

[baskerville]

Please, please don't let BA anywhere near us ever again. They are only interested in terminal 5 at LHR and I pray that they continue so. Flybe are now a strong, free airline and the last thing they need is to be constrained by the restrictive trading practices of an out moded business model. If BA did not have a monopoly at LHR they would not have survived this long!

[Pizzaro]

Well said baskerville,

After 6 years of business plans and future size and shapes, I'm glad to see the back of them (BA) . They're not interested in the regions, they don't know how to operate in the regions. Now Ransman stop scaring me.

Regards P.

[Anotherflapoperator]

Absolutely!

What I said about the A318 was that I'd been told that the Certification into LCY was for only one engine type of A318. I don't know which, but I presume the smaller, lighter engine, not the bigger heavier De-rated one. Thus, commonality with operators of A320/321 like BA would be unlikely due to the additional training/spares and other costs.

Only a hypothesis, please don't let it stand in the way of a good rumour spreading!

[MarkD]

anotherflapoperator
Not so. (http://www.airbus.com/en/presscentre/pressreleases/pressreleases_items/06_10_30_a318_london_city_airport.html)Airbus A318 continues steep approach tests for compatibility approval at London City Airport
30 October 2006
An Airbus A318 powered by CFM International CFM56-5 engines successfully performed a series of compatibility tests, including steep approaches, at London City Airport on Saturday 28th October, demonstrating the aircraft's good neighbour characteristics. The trials complement those previously carried out in May at London City with a Pratt & Whitney PW6000A-powered Airbus A318.

[spanishflea]

Either way, the engine type is still not that which BA operates.

[sg1]

Hmmmm interesting.................was shunted about the regions for 10 long hard years by BA before heading back to the utopia that is LHR(not).:mad:
If this happens there are going to be alot of very unhappy "glorified bus drivers" out there. That is an expression 1st coined by Mr BA himself Ayling that is.:*

[MarkD]

spanishflea - BA actually do operate CFMs on the A320 fleet at the moment, just not for much longer (the BUS* subfleet ex BCal are CFMs, and are leaving the fleet over the next year or so).

[BAladdy]

Does anyone know when the leases ends on the remaining RJ100's???

I know XAR and XAS leave in 1Q ans 2Q 08.

How about the Swiss a/c could these return to help CF build there fleet up???

[DutchBird-757]

AR/AS are here to stay in addition to the 2 RJ85's bringing the total nbr of a/c to 12 in summer 2008.

[marlowe]

So is Cityflyer still going to be bought by Flybe ?:rolleyes:

[Maude Charlee]

No, this week we're buying out both USAir and American Airlines. Jim French wants to expand his overseas horizons. :}

[marlowe]

BA Laddy well one of those swiss airframes is still sat in its little hanger on the wrong side of the docks! not sure CF would want it back.

[Dash-7 lover]

When WW first mooted that he wanted out of the regions VLM approached BA to take BA Connect although they only wanted the LCY operation as that was the only part of BACON that was making money. They didn't want the rest of the unprofitable regional network. BA said no so VLM pulled out. Flybe came along and said we don't want LCY but we'll take the rest so BA were laughing and handed it to them on a plate. LCY doesn't suit lowcost - that's why FLYBE didn't stick at it!
For political reasons my feelings are that BA will stick with BACF until after the Olympics so at least there's a BA presence within the City but after that it'll be cheeeow!
The RJ100's are going to be replaced by RJ85's so there's less of a performance issue trying to get to Madrid!!

[San Expiry]

It's 'mooted' - a much used word and a very good word it is,too. However, it is seldom spelt correctly possibly because when one hears it used in 'the media' it gets mispronounced.

[DutchBird-757]

Not entirely correct. Some of the RJ100's are propably going to be returned, not talking about AR/AS right now. There will be a couple of RJ85's joining the fleet but the RJ100 will remain for high density work like EDI-LCY etc.

[marlowe]

well Dutchbird i doubt if there will be any reduction in the number of airframes now, otherwise its going to be nigh on impossible to run the schedule with the new destinations in place. Possibly a few airframes could be swapped for some 85s like the original plan called for .

[DutchBird-757]

I'm sorry, I forgot to mention that probably a few RJ100's will be swapped around for RJ85's, as you said to accompany the expension.