Ex Rex Pilots; Would you have stayed if....

[Naverick]

I believe that of the 70 or more that have resigned in the last few months, there are a number that would have stayed if T&C's had been improved.

What would it have taken for me to remain at Rex? Simple. A salary that would have awarded me as a captain the equivalent of a Virgin Fo's salary, overtime >70 hours flight time p/month and a retention bonus. ( and an ops department that support the crew )

I appreciate that lifestyle, morale etc. are also important issues but the bottom line is, am I being awarded fairly for my services. As I stated on a previous thread, Ops staff and senior flighty's are on a better wicket than Fo's, therefore, aircraft's claim that Rex cannot afford to award pilots appropriately has no credence.

I did not leave Rex because of equipment. I left because management were simply taking the p*ss.

I would be particularly interested to read the motives for resigning from other Ex Rex pilots.

[Naverick]

Gday moderators,

Not sure why this thread has been moved, as it is an airline/rpt related topic rather than general aviation.

[bizzybody]

Any chance we can have a day without a new Rex Thread?
or as someone else said their own special section?

[Tidbinbilla]

Moved because it was a question and more appropriate for this forum (GA AND Questions). It doesn't fit as news and therefore was moved here.

The Rex subject is fairly popular at the moment, but topics will start to be merged if it gets any further out of hand. I considered merging this thread but will let it run for a while.


TID

[The Kavorka]

Nav, good post it will be interesting to see what others have to say.

Personally I left to fly a jet, however if REX paid what your suggesting it could have swayed my thoughts...

Although they would have to change they way they treat their pilots, epecially fo's, running around between turns, doing trims, looking after um's, the list goes on...and farking off those piece of sh*t A models would help!!

Another thing that really pissed me off was some cabin crew and ops staff made a fair bit more than I did.......especially when none of them had undured 6 years close to death numerous times in GA......

Tinbindilla, don't worry about the excessive REX threads, there will be no airline soon so they'll probably stop!!

[apache]

Someone at REX once asked me why I would want to work for JQ. I believe the exact wording was "Why do you want to work for Jetstar? The pilots are getting absolutley flogged over there! they are doing 90 hours a month"

to which the reply was "we are getting flogged too. at least over there I will get paid better for it"

as a SF340 cpatain, on a BASE wage of 71k, and no prospect of it improving it is/was a no brainer to leave for a company that STARTS you on 80k.

Along with the fact that I was getting called every day to work, they even called me 6 times on a SUNDAY after I had finished work, to ask if I could change my roster for the NEXT day to suit them!!!
I would have been quite happy to stay but there were a few things that needed fixing, but would NOT get fixed anytime soon:-
- more support. Pilots having to do every job under the sun made it not enjoyable.
- dress me properly. the uniform standard showed that they had no respect for us, or their image.
- supply us the tools we need to do the job you want. computers that break down, no car parking, no raincoats, inadequate meals, no time rostered to update jepps, fcom etc.
-constantly having to be on call 24/7. IF you want to call me re work, and I am on a day off.... at LEAST apologise for calling me on my RDO!!! but when I need to call you on a weekend, I get abused for it!
- some common sense from those in management. ie if pilots use their initiative to help the company, quite often the work done is rejected because one senior manager gets his nose out of joint that he hadn't thought of it!(or would get credit for it)
- no sensibility in the rostering. ie day 1 1750-2030. day2 0600-1655. day 3 0800-1800. why couldn't they roster 3/1/2 rather than 1/2/3 ?
- NO communication from head office to frontline staff. Quite often we heard what was happening by rumour and gossip, rather than from the company.
- reward me for my time! don't get all sulky when I refuse to extend for free. You are quite happy to pay someone else 350 to do 2 sectors on an RDO... why not pay ME 350 to extend for you ? either way, someone gets paid and the flights get done!
- Stop making me feel guilty every time I stand up for my rights as defined by the eba/cao's etc.
- stop treating the aircraft as if it is a space shuttle! it is NOT. it was designed to be a simple aircraft.

rant over

[Danger Mouse]

Apache, A lot of your complaints seem fair, but i am just wondering about the extension of duty one, why do you think you should be paid extra to extend duty when you are employed full time and would realy owe the company aprox 40 hours a week in return?

[Howard Hughes]

especially when none of them had (E)ndured 6 years close to death numerous times in GA...
This statement has me worried, what were you doing in GA? Or was it that you couldn't say no?

I only once came close to death in GA, but that was my own stupid fault...:rolleyes:

[The Kavorka]

HH.....

Night freight in the southern half of the country in clapped out buckets of ****e aircraft in the middle of winter.

Not a whole lot of fun.......ice,rain,sleet, you get the picture

[V1OOPS]

Danger Mouse: the company agreed to publish a roster one month ahead which it can adjust up to 2 weeks before the day. Even with that written commitment they have in the past taken every opportunity to alter duty days and RDOs, so if pilots had to agree to every extension it would severely compromise a monthly roster, not to mention make off-duty chores and family commitments impossible to plan. In the event there are no reserve crews, the company may have to source another crew at a cost, so why not offer the current crew incentive if they can organise someone to pick up the kids, etc.
The reason many crew like the regional airline lifestyle in the past is just that ability to have another life (and at home!) beyond flying. If the 2 - 4 week roster commitment wasn't part of the deal, then many wouldn't have bothered even joining - bit too GA without.

[archangel7]

Another thing that really pissed me off was some cabin crew and ops staff made a fair bit more than I did.......especially when none of them had undured 6 years close to death numerous times in GA......

WTF! How does that work? That’s an absolute disgrace!:\ Pilots have lost their pride and dignity because of operators like REX jet*. A pilots job is the second most dangerous and I believe it’s one of the most respected...tell someone you’re a pilot and see their reaction!:eek: Like doctors who have passed the medical boards or lawyers who have passed the bar exam, professional pilots have fulfilled the education and experience requirements and passed the rigorous exams that, under CASA laws and regulations. And why don’t these people understand that a pilot is a profession, just like medicine or law?
Flying an aeroplane isn’t in the same category as for example... Working as a cleaner? What did it cost a cleaner to become a cleaner? $0??Training, exams exams and more exams and then evenn more fkn exams once you get into REX... what is it? Something like 10 exams based in a small period of 2 weeks! I heard it’s pretty intense to get through and that does not include the sim check and line check. How many renewals, line checks, etc does a cleaner have to undergo each year? 0? :D what is at stake if a cleaner makes a mistake? Ahh I think nothing? It’s really not a big deal... THEN WHY ARE CLEANERS AND FLIGHT ATTENDENTS MAKING A KILLING?:ugh: Most passengers have absolute no idea what is involved to get there fat assess from point A to B safely and efficiently... :rolleyes: we are under pressure all the time with a lot at stake for us and our families and having to deal with threats like terrorism isn’t making things any easier. Being a pilot takes a lot of sacrifice, determination, perseverance and at times self control and discipline. We deserve to be rewarded for what we do.:cool: I honestly don’t understand why we are treated like scum.:} I think it’s true, as stated on another thread.. WE DO NEED TO GROW SOME BALLS and stop letting these operators walk all over us and for just accept things for the way they are. I personally think that the government should step in a make up a law concerning professional high risk jobs like pilots and proclaim that there should be a minimum amount the we should be getting payed. There is an old saying "What goes around comes around. ... And thank god for this pilot shortage, it is a golden opportunity for all of us... let’s all use it to our advantage and for once get the upper hand!

[Boney]

..... and Management scratches their heads and continues to wonder why there is a pilot shortage???????

[apache]

why do you think you should be paid extra to extend duty when you are employed full time and would realy owe the company aprox 40 hours a week in return?
do you honestly think that they weren't getting their 40 hrs per week out of me, on average?
What do you think would happen to an office worker if they aswked them to extend for three or four hours after their rostered finish, to do some paperwork? do you think that THEY would be HARANGUED into staying back for FREE? and more importantly, do you think that the office worker would do it? NO!
Besides, the rest of the country gets a 38 hour week... why should we do 40?
the rest of the country gets OVERTIME if they do more than 7.5 hours in a day, yet we were rostered for 11 hour duties, and often broke 11, with NO overtime, so getting 2-3 hours off the 38 was only fair recompense IF we ever got it!
WRT to breakdowns, poor weather, late pax etc... we had NO choice but to extend ad nauseum, and NEVER EVER got thanked, or rewarded properly for it. So for the company to have the cheek o expect me to VOLUNTEER for an extra 3-4 hours work A DAY, for NO money is a little bit rich for me.

I did enjoy working there, and it WAS a good place to work - initially. The screws have been tightened TOO far. Time to repay some of that good work that has put REX in a good position.

[THE ORACLE]

Archangel7,
I'm sorry to disappoint you but commercial flying qualifications have never been considered by academia as a 'professional qualification' alongside the 'professional' qualifications of a Doctor, Lawyer, Engineer, etc. Notwithstanding the Bachelor Degrees that have been offered in aviation studies during the past decade or so, a straight CPL or ATPL licence is considered to be a 'trade' rather than a 'professional' qualification. The reason for this is due to an interesting set of conventions and a legal precedent;

Firstly, people have been sailing around in ships for thousands of years and by the late 19th century Ships Captains with Foreign Going Master Mariner's Certificates were recognised by academia as having mastered a long standing 'profession' and thus their qualification was afforded the status of a Bachelor of Science by higher learning institutions.

Secondly, aviation has been around for a much shorter time period (compared to seafaring) and no conventions were established during the latter part of the 20th century to formally confer any higher academic status to flying qualifications.

This proved to be a real dilemma for industrial judges (in this country and abroad) in determining the first industrial awards for commercial pilots in the late 1950's. At that time the closest set of award T.&C.'s that could be modified to provide industrial agreements for commercial pilots were trade awards (either plumbers and gasfitters or possibly electrical trades from memory) and so to this day commercial pilots (Airline Captains) as far as legal precedents under the awards are concerned are 'tradesmen' and Ships Captains (subject to their qualification) are recognised as 'professional's by institutions of higher learning.
Aint that a kicker!!

[apache]

and they STILL won't acknowledge that there is a problem.

[KRUSTY 34]

Gidday apache me 'ol mate.

Quite some months ago the cheif pilot at REX said to me that "money" is not the only consideration when choosing to remain as a regional airline pilot!

Frankly, I coudn't agree more. What blew me away however is that because of the greatly reduced conditions (max hours, more and more non-pilotage duties, and as you so rightly put, basically getting flogged), he was unable to see that money was now the only consideration!

He indicated that an improvement in lifestyle would help to reverse the trend. Once again, agreed. Lifestyle will not improve, and in any case I doubt it ever will, untill the pilot numbers expand considerably. More lip service. They have proven that they have no hesitation in working us max hours with as little support as they can get away with.

This situation will continue to deteriorate untill such time as the T&C's improve. It will take years to reverse the trend. Unless they do something now, REX are in serious trouble indeed.

[The Kavorka]

goodonyamate.....

do you work for rex?????

it's a farken disgrace what rex makes their FO's do b'w turns...no wonder so many can't wait to leave!! you try doing 5-6 sectors in a ****e box saab in the middle of summer running around in 45deg heat looking after um's and throwing the odd orange tag bag in the back after a min rest overnight..........

Jeez I'm a wank*r!!!!!!!!!! (TID Edit)


It's well known you're having a love affair with your new Jetstar job Kavorka. You were happy when you were at Rex, now you slag them out!

Can we look forward to your considered view on Jetstar once the gloss wears off?

Have a few days off to think about it.

TID.:hmm:

[floatjockey01]

I must say, this thread's been very interesting reading but I dont think Rex is hurting as much as it seems. I sent a (half hearted) email with a CV purely on a whim a month or so ago. 7300TT with almost 700 on SF34....specifying that I also live in Syd. I got a reply to say that I must apply through 'pilot.staffCV.com'

If they were hurting, you would think the least they would do is call me and advise the correct protocol....Oh well, maybe its just me :(

[eye_in_the_sky]

Tin,

Why do you continue to silence those that just want to debate a very pertinent and relevant subject for all those looking to come out of GA?

There is nothing Kavorka has said that is not factual.

....
....
....

anyway

[apache]

... and yet AIRCRAFT is allowed to rant uncensored?!

ahhhh democracy.

[apache]

Goodonyamate,

I think that we have ALL done this, and no one has said that it is "beneath them". The point being made is that whilst it has been common practice for many a year, the roster and turnaround times made it possible to do.

Nowadays, the turnaround times are extremely tight, the pilots are working more and more, and the help being given them is less and less. Whereas in the past it was no problem to do this as the schedule had time to allow for this, now they roster you the MINIMUM time to turnaround an aircraft. In that time you are also supposed to SWAP aircraft and do an entire preflight on the new one, which could be 2km away from where you are parked. There is NO transport specifically provided for this (you have to try to negotiate some), and then when you run late, they ring you on your one day off to berate you for being 3 mins late!!!!!
OR... if you try to speed things up to help with on time performance, and you try to combine a few routine actions, then you are hauled over the coals for not following SOP's .... even though the SOP's contradict themselves in two or three places, and you HAVE followed the SOPs in one book. when you point this out you get told "DON'T be a F**king smarta%se " (yes... sworn at!!!)

A lot of the time, when you are rostered a break, they also throw in an aircraft change - which means that you can work for 8 hours without a break, and no food provided. IF you say "no, I am going to HAVE my break" then all hell breaks loose....

Add to the fact that most new employees in admin/clerical roles are now singaporean, with no regard for the employee, but an inbuilt sense of deferral to management then the help to the employee becomes less. There was a case where an F/A wanted to move to a check in role. She was told "I will interview you, but you won't get the job because KLH has TOLD me that I must employ this (singaporean) girl. If I do not employ her in the vacant check in position, then I must employ her elsewhere.... ie supernumery, and it comes out of my budget"

As I said before though, when things run smoothly - and a few years ago as well, it was / is a GREAT place to work. As soon as the screws got tightened, then it became less enjoyable.

[eye_in_the_sky]

Apache,

That's right on the money.
I too have been sworn at by a certain "manager" of c&t.
What can you say, his exceptional people skills obviously keep him in the job.

An accident or incident is not too far off in my opinion. Cultures like this do not foster open communications.

[boardpig]

If HALF of what apache has said here is true ( and I suspect it's considerably more) then stuff trying to get a seat with the regionals. I'm one of those folks that has been following the pilot situation with a CPL/MEIR/ATPL's but employed as a professional in another industry. From Apache's post, I simply cannot believe this level of UN professionalism can exist in aviation today. Yes I've heard snippets of stories from others but this seems like a complete nightmare!! The impression here is of an industry which is simply trying to screw its employees for everything, their enthusiasm, personal lives, anything they got!! and treat them like sh*t into the bargain.
Why on earth I'd want to switch to that I'll never know. I love flying (as most do), but not that much.
:ugh:

[KRUSTY 34]

boardpig,

And there'n lies the reason for this crisis today!

[chief wiggum]

any idea how many more have left? or Are leaving?
I wonder how REX would react if someone like AIRTEX or SKYTRANS publicly stated that REX were "poaching" their pilots?

probably stopped now anyway, as people realise that the t&c's aren't worth the hassle.

[MBVW]

Quite right, the T & C's are not worth the hassle. I would love to work for a regional such as REX but I am one of those persons who cannot do a job if I dont feel that I am being correctly remunerated.

I have 6000 TT, 3000 ME turbine command and am under 40. Being a baggage handler for the rest of my career would not make me feel respected and the fact that I would have to start on the FO's wage is the nail in the coffin. Additionally, walking 2K's to change A/C in the middle of a shift and look after kids and grannies is a distraction from what you should be doing. Change all that and my resume will be in the mix.