Ryanair cadet open day

[Ullevi]

Just saw the ad on the screen above here.

At East Midlands airport on 17th November.

Anybody know what it is about? What sort of people are they looking to attend?

Thanks.

[dhc1180]

I don't know anything about that, but I may go if there is something on, despite the fact I don't want to work for ryanair!

[JetSetJ]

It seems Ryanair are looking for qualified Cadets with the necessary requirements. The details are here:

http://www.ryanair.com/site/EN/about.php?page=Jobs&sec=careers&ref=CAD00001

You can't just arrive, you have to pre book and pre pay! The next show is 16th December.

dhc1180, if you don't want to work for Ryanair why waste your money and time attending!?!:ugh:

JJ:ok:

[modern monkey]

Cant believe Ryan Air charge £10 to attend this open day. What a complete and total disgrace!
I can imagine the scene in some board room in Dublin:

"-Well guys, profits are up again good work every one... but you know, we still need to find more ways of cutting costs and making more money....
- Hows about those wannabe pilots, they always seem to be stupid enough to fall for almost anything....
- Yeh, we even got them to pay for their own interviews! Can't believe they swallowed that one! The money from that, along with our cut of CAE's type rating fees all counts....
-I know, why don't we hold an open day and all charge them to attend..

People, stop letting them take the piss out of you for christ's sake and DON'T GO! THE MORE US WANNABES CONTINUE TO HUMILIATE OURSELVES BY PLAYING RYAN AIR'S GAMES THE MORE THEY WILL THINK THEY CAN GET AWAY WITH. HAVE SOME SELF RESPECT!

[Finals19]

What sort of people are they looking to attend?


Err...be able to bend over and touch your toes? KY Jelly is optional. £25,000 is not.

[Orvil]

Hi all,
Once again this thread is degenerating into an anti-ryanair rant.
Every man and his dog knows what Ryan air is about so why go on about it?
Every airline gets the money from you one way or another be it bonding and reduced salary, direct loan and pay back purchase or the other 20 odd schemes that exhist.
Its the nature of the business get used to it or find something else to do.
We live in a Capitalist society and for all its faults the beauty of it, itgives everyone of us a choice. Use it.
best wishes

[YYZ]

It is likely that such an event would mean curtains for Ryan Air, and good riddance.

What a very mature, articulate and thoughtful comment?

Apart from wishing a crew and pax the worst fate possible you are also wishing an airline with 150+ aircraft to go bust? You do realise if that did happen the market would be flooded with many many... many 738 rated pilots into the world, basically screwing all newbie’s (YOU) for years to come.

Not the best outlook that is it?


Looking at your history you seem to have anger issues, maybe thinking before posting might help?

[The Otter's Pocket]

I have been un-able to get a reply from Ryanair regarding tomorrow. I would therefore hazard a guess that it is full.

[JetSetJ]

Hi Otter's Pocket,

I strongly suspect Ryanair are now taking bookings for their next cadet open day in December.

It did take the team a while before they got back to me for payment

JJ:ok:

[modern monkey]

YYZ, I am not wishing death to a Ryan Air aircraft, pax and crew! That would be a horrible thing to do.

I do however long for the demise of Ryan Air!.....or at least for them to change their ways....

[EjetSetter]

Orvil, bonding actually is the best way to go and with a lot of thoes airlines its not a reduced salary. Really the worst thing about a bond is if the company let's you go but with today's climate that's unlikely to happen.

Now as for the market. If you guys didn't pay for your type-raiting you wouldn't have it and if FR were to disappear (won't happen for a while) then yes there would be an influx of pilots but other factors such as if they want to keep flying are fortuned in as well.

[LAX]

modern m

Not saying that Ryanair is the worlds favourite employer, I certainly couldn't afford to work for them on a 2 striper contract, but what about BALPA charging £60 this year to attend their Job oppertunities conference? Only for newbees to hear "yes we are hiring but our min requirements are a type rating on a 707 and 500hrs on type" etc etc.

£10 to me sounds reasonable value campared to this as at least RYR do have genuine jobs to give low houred guys/gals?

As for £300 for interview, if you know who to call you pay nothin!

Also, don't be so niave. No company owes anybody a job. Trust me, there are equally well known company's that will treat pilots with utter contempt when it suits them!

[The Otter's Pocket]

I concur with LAX.
If BALPA gave a monkies about the new recruits they wouldn't have had a conference that cost £60 each for some bearded chap to tell us how great Jet 2 were for giving him a job, when they didn't even turn up.
Next time BALPA forget the prawns in batter and save us the dollar, or was it just a money making exercise to support the BA Captains pension.

At least with RYR you know that you are going to get shafted and you can prepare for it. Close your eyes and relax.
Several others wont give you the benefit of a reach around...

[Orvil]

Monkey, I value your opinion even if it is abit of a sweeping generalisation but at the end of the day everybody is free to make their choices and nobody is forced to work for ryanair.
If you despise them that much don't apply, stop getting frustrated and move on.
It's the world we both live in, BALPA don't care or anyother professional body.
Ask yourself this question, when you become management yourself (your type always rise to the top ;-) ) Would you stand out on a professional limb and tell the shareholders and fellow directors that it is wrong and immoral ? I doubt it very much unless you want to retire early !!

Ejet, agree best type of bond is one that pays full salary as well but they are few and far. Don't know of any airline that does that (unless ya' Dad is the management I'd LOL if it weren't true)

At the end of the day .....choose wise and go fourth!

bestwishes to all

[LAX]

One more thing mm.

While there maybe issues between upper management and pilots, I have many fine friends - cpts/fo's - who work for RYR. If you actually knew what you where talking about, or guys/gals within the company, you would never have written such a rediculus post suggesting an incident. For example, 6 crew working to turn a 737-800 around in 25 mins is no problem, it is done safely, the biggest challenge is getting the pax on and off that quickly as with infants there can be nearly 200 people on board such an aircraft. And as for speed on final approach you will be asked at most UK airports to maintain 160kts to 4 miles in CAT I conditions, remember there are flap limiting speeds and most 737 operators have a call 500ft stable=continue or go round. Get your facts right!!!!

[-8AS]

Modern monkey, I find you ignorant generalisations of the operational standards of Ryanair and their crews utterly disgusting. Say what you like about their recruitment practices, as this would seem to be the level of your career, but never comment on an airlines operational standards when you simply don't have any idea about such matters.

[modern monkey]

Ok! I retract my comments about Ryan Air's operational standards. My aim was never to question the professionalism and quality of Ryan Air's crews and staff. My aim was merely to speculate on whether Ryan Air's cost cutting approach and management style might potentially contribute to a lowering of standards.

Personally I find their exploitation of wannabe's utterly disgusting.

[-8AS]

Fair enough.

[MrHorgy]

Hmm, last time I checked, Oxford, FTE and CTC charged you for an assessment, and your not even being paid! What's the difference?

As someone earlier said before, they will find a way to get your money out of you.

I went to the assessment day before and it was a very interesting day - not only on Ryanair but just to meet likeminded people and get an insight into the aviation market. We got to see the sims, play in the cabin trainer, and got given a talk and presentation on what it's all about. Yes you pay for uniform, Yes you pay for rating, and your renewals, but once it's all done your setup with nothing else to pay. I've seen some starting salaries for major operators which pale in comparison to what RYR pay, and that's with a 4 year 20k bond!

Horgy

[modern monkey]

Honestly, I don't think some people live in the real world.
When I tell friends of mine who are not involved in aviation that Ryan Air charge 300 quid, just to interivew you, and 10 quid to attend a recruitment day they are agasp, some even break into laughter.
I challenge somebody to tell me of any other industry where you have to pay a company what for many people is a week's wages, just to interview you. You would not pay for an interview for any other job, so why why why do you think it is acceptable to pay for a ryan air one?

Flying is a job, from which you are supposed to make money, pay the mortgage etc, and thats all it is. A job which is better than most, and at times very enjoyable, but that's all it is. I sometimes think that a lot of wannabes have lost sight of the fundamental reason why they are in this game, and view getting a flying job as some ultimate dream, which they are going to follow no matter what the cost.

[Mercenary Pilot]

There are many people who are having all their training paid for by somebody else and can afford not to take a wage just so they can experience the perceived glamour that comes with being an airline pilot. Just accept it, stand by your own morals and enjoy the journey.

There are some great flying jobs about where you will be treated with respect, feel like your doing something constructive with your day and getting paid a fair wage for what you do. It might not be on a brand new 737 but there is plenty of time in your career to operate a factory fresh heavy.

:ok:

[Skydrol Leak]

Modern Monkey,

We do not live back in 70's or 80's when the pilots were being registered as being equal to lawyers and doctors in their salaries. Back then you were also a very respected person in society.
Well, today with an introduction of part time pilot schemes studies and distance learning programmes we have allowed the people who had the backgrounds of being a plumber, loading bay operator...etc to take the job that was once unique.
But i guess Ryanair loves this fact.And we are just orbiting around this saying nothing. As my grandma said; "An angry dog just barks, but the sane one bites"

Good luck

[SD.]

Completely off-topic but I'm quite dissapointed in Skydrol Leak's comment...

"Well, today with an introduction of part time pilot schemes studies and distance learning programmes we have allowed the people who had the backgrounds of being a plumber, loading bay operator...etc to take the job that was once unique."

With all due respect, what a load of old tosh. I come from a self-employed engineering background and a rough part of good old East London. I was successful in my previous work and used that to help finance my flight training, and now I'm on a lot less money teaching people to fly. Why should I not have the chance of achieving a lifetime ambition of sitting at the pointy end of an airliner? Unique to who?

:mad::mad::ugh::ugh:

[Superpilot]

Well, today with an introduction of part time pilot schemes studies and distance learning programmes we have allowed the people who had the backgrounds of being a plumber, loading bay operator...etc to take the job that was once unique.

Skydrol, what are you actually getting at?

To be able to afford flying training (yes it is possible completely of your own back!) it would take the average person 4-7 years to raise the fund. What do you suppose people do with their lives during that time? Furthermore, many people are put off flying training due to the cost, therefore they settle for something else in life later realising that flying is achievable.

On top of that, flying is a fragile career. The slightest screw up can ground you. The slightest ailment can ground you. Does it therefore make sense to devote your entire life to learning to fly aeroplanes and do nothing else but that? Nay, the plumbers and loading bay operators are more successfull than the posh little snotties who trained at age 18 with mummy's/daddy's money.

[Mercenary Pilot]

1 post? I smell a troll or maybe just somebody who can't get into the airlines? Wonder why? :hmm:

Whatever, the comments are totally wrong and incorrect, and I'm glad I don't have to fly with people who have that sort of attitude.

[portsharbourflyer]

Skydrol leak,
You seem to know nothing about pre-JAA training. Pre-2002 when the CAA self improver system (in reality modular training is still effectively the "self improver" route) was in place you could simply buy the books and self study for the CPL and ATPL exams, there was no requirement to do an approved ground school; so the JAA system is much less accessible than the old CAA system.
Further to this, although the ATPL subjects are technically not particulary difficult, the quantity of information to learn means that studying along side working is quite demanding (I found studying aero engineering full time easier than completing ATPLs distance learning).


Also if someone is a Plumber it would have been a very good career choice as a means of funding an ATPL.

[MrHorgy]

Blame the consumer - prices are constantly being driven down through supply and demand and costs have to be recouped elsewhere. I say again, not just Ryanair charge for assessment.

The skills assessment for OATS is £195
The skills assessment for Cabair is £117.50

..these two your paying for the priviledge of forking out another £60,000, and doesn't include a job offer (unless your on a sponsored scheme, that's a little different)

Here's some more statistics:

CityJet current SO base pay is £15,400 plus £20 a sector plus bond for TR
Air Southwest FO base pay is £18,000 plus £5 a day flying on a 4 year 20k bond with no reduction in first year
Flybe starting salary £23,000 plus £1.90 p/h with TR bond.

Aren't figures fun to play with? :ouch:

They'll find some way to get you for your money, whoever you work for. My RYR assessment cost me £265 and for that I got near on 2 full hours in the 737-800 sim. Whatever the result that'd be money well spent for Level D sim time even if I only did it for the practice!

Horgy

[Superpilot]

Good point Horgy, I am a man of facts and figures myself and when you put it like that one can't argue (too bad) about RYR :cool:

[Mercenary Pilot]

One certainly CAN argue about FR. The shafting doesn't ever stop there, ask the new hires how much it costed to use the pool for the ditching drills. :rolleyes:

Air southwest, flybe, and cityjet all pay for re-currency training and expenses after they have given you a job. Don't get the FR TR scheme mixed up with a training bond, 2 very different philosophies.

[modern monkey]

Horgy, stop trying to bend figures to make Ryan Air not seem so bad! I know you are going to work for them and I congratulate you on getting the post, wish you luck and an am sure it will be the start of a rewarding career, but no amount of bending figures will make their approach look worthwhile.
From what mercenary pilot says you will even have to pay for the pool hire to do the ditching drills!

Comparing Ryan Air's interview charge with OAT and Cabair's assesment charge is a complete non-starter. They are training organisations, where by you pay them for their service. Ryan Air are an employer. In case you hadn't realised an employerpays you for your service.

You then compare the sallaries and training bonds at other airlines with Ryan Air.
1. Being bonded by an air line is not same as paying for a TR. Airlines bond people as a means of protecting their investment in their pilots, so that you don't get the TR and then piss off straight away and work for someone else. Work for them for the bond period and you get the TR for free. Also, has it escaped your attention that on a Brookfields Ryan Air contract you are bonded for two years for the cost of your line training?
2. You then quoute the salaries at City Jet, Southwest and Flybe. What is your point here, that they are less than Ryan Air FO pay? Tell me, what exactly will a Ryan Air FO earn in their first year. Having paid for the TR, paid for their accommodation during line training, paid for their uniform and lived off £800 a month for the training period id say around -£10,000.

You then go on to imply that you have gotten some kind of value out of paying £265 for your 2 hr sim assesment in a Ryan Air sim. Agreed, that is cheap for 737 sim hire and the practice may stand you in good stead for another sim check, but you again have missed the very piont of the sim assesment. Ryan Air were assesing you for a job. They weren't offering some kind of "737 Sim Experience". You were a potential employee, not a customer!

I concur Horgy that you are in this flying game not for the reason of it being a viable career, from which you will gain financially, pay a mortgage and keep your future wife and children in a good manner, but for the reason of it being some kind of "Jim'll Fix It" experience, for which you are willing to pay.
Sadly I think that there are many of your type around, such as those who pay for line training with the likes of Eagle Jet, people who want to buy into a slice of the "airline pilot experience". People for whom emplyoment by an airline is not a job, but a product which they can buy.
Ryan Air have seen the market for those kind of people and are exploiting it, as I probably would do if I were in their position. For wannabe's they are not an employer but a "Jim'll fix it" airline, with plenty of customers.

[sam34]

The problem in the world of aviation a lot of young people have a dream : flying.
So they do everything to get this job, and they sometimes pay for this.

the problem, is a lot of youngs when they passed the inteview, they believe that MR Ryanair give them a job. "Oh thank you Mr Ryanair, you are helpful, I will do my best...etc"
But today they forget that a company do not give you a job because you it is your dream but they just need people to get money more and more.

I completely agree with modern Monkey, but there will be always people who pay for a job, that's life.
Maybe they are just naive or maybe they don't want fly a beech or ATR just because it is not boeing or airbus. It is a choice.

But to be honest, I would be happy if I had money to pay my TR and get a job with Ryanair. Because I will fly.
But I won't be proud of me. Not really I guess. Because it is easier to pay a TR and get a job with Ryanair than pass tests (:ugh:) of British Airways or other major.
So I would always wonder if I deserved it...
the difference with a company who pay you a TR etc, they believe in you, I guess it is more respectable. Just a thought.

[Blinkz]

For a lot of people it comes down to a choice, either stay unemployed watching other people getting jobs or join Ryanair and get a lot of hours on a great aircraft type. Is it right? No of course it isn't, do any of us want to have to pay for a TR? Again no of course we bloody well don't! but the industry has changed, very few airlines don't give you a reduced salary for X number of years on joining to pay for the TR. I'm not making excuses but some of us aren't just going to sit around whilst the industry enters a period of consolidation (most recruitment is slowing or stopping at the moment) as we get more and more out of flying practice. Ryanair isn't the evil devil that everyone makes out, neither is it the shining light that some people say it is.

I know a lot of people flying for Ryanair (who's opinion about the airline I trust a lot more then most of you lot who generally have no idea what its like!) and they don't have a problem with it. It basically does what it says on the tin, yes it costs you money to get in. BUT it also offers things in return, a not unreasonable salary once you finish training, a LOT of hours on brand new 737NGs with a lot of hands on flying and lots of NPAs.

Its a very similar argument to going integrated or modular, there is nothing hugely wrong with either ways but it comes down to a choice.

[The Otter's Pocket]

Skydrol or should I say 00SEVEN

Anybody remember this thread, "Ryanair, the initial outlay" ?

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=293406


Sir you really are a pnumpty. Rearrange these letters please Dcik-Fcae.

[MrHorgy]

Two pages in and we're already deep into the RYR argument again :rolleyes:

Comparing Ryan Air's interview charge with OAT and Cabair's assesment charge is a complete non-starter. They are training organisations, where by you pay them for their service. Ryan Air are an employer. In case you hadn't realised an employer pays you for your service.

You miss my point. My point was that in a consumer society, businesses seek to minimise as much expenditure as possible. I agree paying for an assessment is tantamount to extortion, but that is the world we live in now. It's not just airlines either, some train operating companies now charge for assessment as well!

OAT and Cabair want your hard earned/borrowed money as much as other schools. But why doesn't FTE charge? They put you up in their accomodation for the duration of the assessment as well! You see what i'm getting at? Some people charge, some don't. People saying RYR are the devil because they charge holds no water with me anymore, because that's where the industry is anyway.

1. Being bonded by an air line is not same as paying for a TR. Airlines bond people as a means of protecting their investment in their pilots, so that you don't get the TR and then piss off straight away and work for someone else. Work for them for the bond period and you get the TR for free. Also, has it escaped your attention that on a Brookfields Ryan Air contract you are bonded for two years for the cost of your line training?

Point taken about bonding, but if a 20k 4 year bond needs only another 5k a year in salary to be equal, i'd rather take the salary increase - that is my personal perogative though.

Your point about being bonded for line training is incorrect. I have my contract in front of me - "should I fail to accept a permanent position with Ryanair I will be liable for my line training" - it makes no mention of Brookfield contracts, if I am not offered a Ryanair contract I can walk away.

2. You then quoute the salaries at City Jet, Southwest and Flybe. What is your point here, that they are less than Ryan Air FO pay? Tell me, what exactly will a Ryan Air FO earn in their first year. Having paid for the TR, paid for their accommodation during line training, paid for their uniform and lived off £800 a month for the training period id say around -£10,000.

I don't quite understand this. In other threads you chastise CityJet for their low pay, now you seem to be supporting it?

Assuming I have 2 1/2 months line training, and taking into account I am not paid for my TR, a quick fag packet calculation shows I will earn £24,099 in my first year at Ryanair if I take a Brookfield contract. That assumes I fly 80hours a month, and the exchange rates remains 1.43 - with the Euro getting stronger this may increase my salary. My second year earnings would be £46,153. Take out of that my loan payment of £150 for my TR living costs, and £1,000 for my monthly bank loan.

You then go on to imply that you have gotten some kind of value out of paying £265 for your 2 hr sim assesment in a Ryan Air sim. Agreed, that is cheap for 737 sim hire and the practice may stand you in good stead for another sim check, but you again have missed the very piont of the sim assesment. Ryan Air were assesing you for a job. They weren't offering some kind of "737 Sim Experience". You were a potential employee, not a customer!

I use this example purely to show the value for money for the actual assessment, and not to show I was on some jolly in my own time. I discussed the actual payment and why it's there above.

I concur Horgy that you are in this flying game not for the reason of it being a viable career, from which you will gain financially, pay a mortgage and keep your future wife and children in a good manner, but for the reason of it being some kind of "Jim'll Fix It" experience, for which you are willing to pay....

You'd think that if I was just in it for just a fun experience I wouldn't have got myself £68,000 in debt for the priviledge - I could have built a flightdeck in my garage for that price, and let my friends fly it for free as well. Maybe I could have started a line in sim practive sessions! :E

I'm not buying into the business for a laugh, but merely establishing a foothold in an increasingly difficult market to penetrate. I don't defend what's going on with the industry, my point is that it is happening whether people like it or not, and it's probably here to stay. As people have said, Ryanair is good experience, plenty of hours on a relevant type, different approaches, and different people. Your don't get that at EagleJet - or a job offer at the end of it either.

Horgy

[JetSetJ]

I must say that the Ryanair open day was very good!!! I really would strongly recommend visiting if you get the opportunity!!

Yes it's £10 pounds but you do get a tour of their facility at EMA and even get to have a quick go in their full level d flight simulator. As far as i'm concerned it was money well spent!! They even have coffee FREE!!!

You get a really good insight into Ryanair and how the company works and you can give your CV to Ash if you would like an interview!

It really did iron out some of the bull sh:mad:t you read on here!

JJ:ok:

[JetSetJ]

Hi Press man,

If I get in, don't worry i'm a member of BALPA and obviously would support all my colleagues. We are all members of the same team and when the need calls, we need to maintain cohesion as we're all in the same boat or plane:-)

I understand that there is a lot of truth here on pprune, however i also understand that there are things in which the truth has been ever so slightly stretched.

However, a career with Ryanair is so appealing:8

Regards

JJ:ok:

[Mercenary Pilot]

We are all members of the same team and when the need calls, we need to maintain cohesion as we're all in the same boat or plane

If only that actually happened.:{

Good luck to all those who choose the FR path but make sure you go in with your eyes WIDE open. I would also try to get on an FR contract and not a brookfield. 25k is a lot of money for a TR, you could spend half that amount and still become a contract pilot.

[crewboy123]

Hello everyone,

Im looking to start my flying career but not sure which direction to take it. Im currently working as cabin crew and I am aware of the fact that ryanair crew do work a lot. But to be honest i dont care if they are going to help me get a step closer to my dream job.

Im thinking about attending the next open day with RYR in february. I was wondering if anyone had some more info? Do they train you up from the very beginning? Ive no PPL and have only had around 10 hours of flying experience. It is going to be similar to the CTC scheme or is the RYR just a rating course onto their 738?

Thanks in advance everyone!!

[3Greens]

crewboy

i seriously suggest having a good long look throught the many threads on this forum...Ryanair wilnot pay for any of your training - type rating included - infact no-one (except RAF) pays for the training, you either have to stump up cash in advance or you pay it back over several years via a "salary sacrifice" scheme once you start work.
I'm afraid you will have to expect to shell out many tens of thousands of pounds which ever way you decide to obtain the licence. Then you will have to join the queue of many seeking that first job.
Best of british...

[crewboy123]

Sorry, I think i may have mis-worded what i had put in my post. I am fully aware of the fact I am going to be paying, I have just been turned down by CTC but i was more than aware of the £70,000!

Thanks for answering my question regarding the RYR training!

[StallStrip]

Dear all Merry Christmas,

I would like to know wether after passing a the Assesment Ryr give you any kind of documentation to enable you to borrow money from the banks for the TRC?

I have already been to see the banks and they said they would need to see some sort of paper work, if you could let me know it woud be much appreciated.

Thanks Stallstrip:ugh:

[MrHorgy]

I recieved a line training contract, but it is a fixed term 6 monthly thing so a bank would probably not let you borrow against it - they'd want to see evidence of people going on to be employed. This is about, but obviously it's anecdotal.

Try HSBC in Oxford, they are familiar with pilots and probably know the score - if not try asking a parent/responsible person/generous mod to guarantee the loan :E

Horgy

[StallStrip]

Thanks MrHorgy, Oxford have stopped doing these loans now unfortunately, I will just have to go in with the 6 month contract!

Any other suggestions are very welcome!

Stallstrip.

[MrHorgy]

Have you actually got the position with Ryanair? One of the questions I was asked was inevitably "can you fund a type rating". If you have then ask the people who know (if you don't know who that is PM/email me) and they might be able to write you something - I know RYR are writing letters support bank account opening for HSBC in Castle Donny.

Horgy

[Blinkz]

Do some work Horgy ;) good trip home?

[MrHorgy]

I am preparing for "Sexy Time" :p

Yeah was ok, was in the cabin mind but I fell asleep - i'm under instructions to start bootlegging RYR calendars so expect me to have a pallet of them come sunday..

Horgy

[Blinkz]

High five!

Shame about cabin but guess sleeping is always good. Nothing exciting happening here, we're all just working. boooooring. Altho checkout topclass our assessment details are on em now.

[MrHorgy]

Canne get on topclass from home! I'll have a deekers Monday. Don't miss me too much!

Horgy

[WHOOPEYDOO]

Orvil is 100% correct here, despite everything that is said about Ryanair, I did all of it and now I have a decent jet job flying new 800 series aircraft, we all know how they shaft you initially but the fact is that after 6 months of being there I was CLEARING 3000 pounds a month, how bad is that? their roster is very stable of 5 on 4 off and 99.9% of the captains you fly with are good guys. Also with their rapid expansion palns there are loads of opportunities within the company, if you stop being so anti-ryanair and "want" to advance yourself the opportunities are there to be grabbed.


If you can access the money to pay for a TR fact is you will get the job and now over a year on, I have nearly 1000 hours on type, ok Ryan are using me, but quite frankly I am using them too, clocking up hours quickly on a great aircraft which will rapidly enable me to advance my career, starting with Ryan on the 738 puts you 5 years ahead of any prop job, something to consider......

WD

[StallStrip]

WHOOPEYDOO, is good to hear someone with some good things to say well done mate good for you if half of the people on hear were'nt so bitter maybe the bad points could be turned around at Ryr:ok:

[WHOOPEYDOO]

Cheers Stallstrip,

I get fed up with the constat ryan bashing by people on here who probably dont really know what the company is like, yes there are bad points but they are over emphasised here on PPrune probably by individuals who dont really know from inside what the company is like and no one really mentions any good points, it is an ok airline and certainly as a starting off point, wannabies should bite their arm off !!

WD

[Laroussi]

A good persective. A bit of balance is always a good thing. Thank you.

What is the maximum age for the cadet scheme?

Cheers.

[badboy raggamuffin]

whoopeydoo, you say that:

"starting with Ryan on the 738 puts you 5 years ahead of any prop job, something to consider".

I have considered that statement and I consider it bollocks!

The world is just as much your oyster with say 1000 turbo prop hours as it is with 1000 737 hrs. Do not underestimate the complexity of a turbo prop aircraft such as an ATR (which is said to be more complex and demanding than a 737), with no luxury of auto landings for example.

[StallStrip]

Bad Boy,

You speak rubbish as well! Agreed turbo props are demanding and technical. But 1000 hours in a turbo prop is not like 1000 hours in a jet FACT! Much Slower speeds more time to think! Turbo props have a much quicker thrust response when you need it "low and slow" for example! Also auto land is a skill in itself you have to be rated on each cat system. High altitude flying is an artform you try sick flying at 38,000'.

So dont get upset if you just have a prop job, it is skilled work but not the same.

Also how many ATR's are around compared to 737's much better job opportunitys

Stallstrip.

[Lord Lardy]

This should not be about a mine is bigger than yours argument. I believe it is a thread on a particular company's cadet open day.

But from an experienced soul with many hours under their belt with both turbo command, medium jet and heavy jet command I may perhaps give a little advise on this thread transgression. I still believe the turboprop has been my biggest and most enjoyable challenge to date. Someone said that there are more jobs available on jets around the world. It's actually quite the contary. Have a look at all the left seat turbo commmand jobs available around europe on the Flight International job section.

Don't let your inexperienced dreams pass comments on statements you cannot back up. God what are these flight schools filling these young peoples heads with nowadays.

"starting with Ryan on the 738 puts you 5 years ahead of any prop job, something to consider".


Make a statement like this when you have flown both and have at least a few thousand commercial hours to back it up. The difference in my company I see from people who started with initial prop experience to those with intial jet experience is very evident in the simulator. (And I back this up by saying that it's not that either are better pilots, only the scan of guys/girls coming from less automated machines is initially at a higher level,) And I include myself in that statement. I have no quams in saying that my scan is not what it used to be years ago, despite my experience. In fact my colleagues and I dissussed this only recently at a training meeting to review our recent recruitment intake.


Stallstrip says:


Turbo props have a much quicker thrust response when you need it "low and slow" for example! Also auto land is a skill in itself you have to be rated on each cat system. High altitude flying is an artform you try sick flying at 38,000'.



Now it gets funny. Auto land is not a human skill, it's a fantastic skill of modern technology. We just sit there and monitor the show, taking care not to forget to disengage the autopilot before turning off the runway! CAT 3 approaches are simply a case of knowing your SOP's. It's hardly rocket science. And as for being rated on each CAT system. Well, CAT 3 also covers you for CAT 2 and again it's a case of knowing your SOP calls. In fact you won't be even landing the aircraft. Thats my job ;)

And with the greatest respect you won't be stick flying at 38,000 ft. You ask a previous poster if they have acutually tried it. I would ask if you have? Your question implies that you have, yet you say you are going for an assesment with Ryanair for what I can assume is your first jet job. (And I wish you the best of luck with that interview. It's a nice aircraft)

However I have no doubt that hand flying at 38000ft is NOT the norm in Ryanair and is not the norm in any commercial operation anywhere in the world.

The more I read of some of the threads the more I get the suspecion that someone is taking the perverbiable. I certainly hope so as it dosen't instill me with confidence knowing that people in this day and age are of this mindset :\

I would argue two points. First of all, I would suggest that you take the first job you can get, whether it be jets, turboprops, pistons, anything. It's experience that will get you the job you desire. Work your up towards that job, whether it is regional flying, medium or long hall. Don't let the brouchers kid you into thinking that you need to be a sky god to do our job. It's a great career, but it's still a job at the end of the day.

And secondly I would strongly argue that maturity actually sets you five years ahead of everyone else, not what you have flown ;)

Happy Chrismas :ok:

[badboy raggamuffin]

Lord lardy, thanks for coming in and helping me out. Your post sums up everything I wanted to say but do not have the experience to back up.

Stick flying at 38000 ft! As likely as a pig flying at 38000 ft!
Stallstrip, you have flown neither type of aircraft, so don't come on here make statetements like you do, when you blatantly do not know what you are talking about.

[YYZ]

I had to go back to the start of this thread then to see what it was? I thought i'd clicked on the wrong one?
Anyone fancy going back to the point, it's done now, any thoughts on if it was worth it, anything new said to the people who paid?

YYZ

[CarbHeatIn]

Much Slower speeds more time to think!

Well we usually descend at 240kias below fl100 on the ATR. I believe the Dash can even do 250. What Mach number are you doing on the 73?

[YYZ]

Great, a willy waving contest? Yes the 73 also reduces to 250 below 100, now can we please move on?:8
YYZ

[badboy raggamuffin]

there's no willy waving contest going on here, just a bunch of idiots making statements when they don't have any idea what they are talking about.

[dougy24]

YYZ,
Yep getting back to the point, the day was, I thought very good, no bull****, the story was told as it is, this is Ryanair, this is what you pay, this is what you get? This is what you get paid?
The pilots we met, also told it how it is, and contary to all the slagging they get on here, if you stay out of office politics (much about the same anywhere) then morale is good, the flying is good, hard work, but then again, what isnt?, but the rewards are there, as the people that work for them will also tell you.
If you have the money to pay for the TR and to survive the line training, then its a good deal compared to some that are around (please no debates about paying for TR's)
The man from Brookfields also gave a presentaion and a set of slides to all there as did the guys from Gecat and CAE and there was also in depth presentation from Ryanair, chance to fly the 737 sim, and visit to the CBT training rooms and also the cabin crew trainer, all in all a very well organised and informative day.
Hope that helps.

[FTOChump]

So far I haven't had any problems with RYR and the feedback I've had from captains/FO's/TRI's is all very positive. I have several friends in the commpany and they are all enjoying it. The TRI's I've met on TR course have been with the company 5+ years and are enjoying it with good money. The training we've had has been superb and contrary to what people might think, they are VERY big on safety. So far they get a thumbs up from me but, as ever, I'm prepared to be proved wrong but won't be surprised if it's all good. :ok:

[dougy24]

Yep

I agree, i have been told exactly the same from people i know that work there as well.

Paul

[WHOOPEYDOO]

Bad boy, firstly let me apologise for taking ages to reply, I am relocating and have not had internet since my last post, however now I can reply to you,

Firstly I think that you have misread the "point" of this post which is about working for ryanair rather than a prop vs jet post, you on the other hand are clearly a prop operator and have taken personal exception to my generalised statement, I would like to state to you that it was not my intention to belittle or piss off any prop operators and Im sure that props are indeed as complex as you say, however I have to say that generally people want to progress on to jets, I know of no pilot that flys a jet who is hoping to move on to a prop and sees that as a step forward in their career - this is the point I was trying to make, if you are such an individual I would suggest that you are the exception rather than the rule.

Let me ask you a straight forward question, if 2 candidates turn up to a jet operator being interviewed to fly a jet, one with 1000 hours jet time and one with 1000 prop hours, who is going to have the advantage in terms of experience for the job?

WD

[WHOOPEYDOO]

Lord Lardy,

My post was nothing to do with “mines bigger than yours” it was in fact Bad Boy Ragamuffin who decided to create that aspect to this thread with his off the point response to my post.

Im sure you are very experienced and I respect that , I hear what you are saying about an individuals scan and if you do indeed come from an aircraft eg prop that has analogue dials your scan will indeed be suited to those instruments - it has to be, just like if you are on a 738 with glass screens, your scan will be based on that, I dont have the luxury of 1000 hours prop time to make the comparison you do but I do have over 1000 hours now in the 738 and in terms of flying the 738 my scan is fine thank you very much, if I were to go into a prop now I would no doubt struggle with the different presentation in front of me as would anybody being put in front of an unfamiliar presentation, this does not however mean that my 738-scan and ability to fly the 738 is in any way diminished, what I have works nicely and I fly it pretty bloody well actually thanks very much.

I am a professional pilot and don’t particularly like you suggesting that I have “inexperienced dreams” and I can back up anything I post on this site, if you return to the “traditional route” which you will be familiar with due to all your experience, you will know that it would have easily taken 5 years or more on props before getting on to jets. However due to the changes in aviation and what Ryanair offer, ie starting on a 738, you can now jump over the prop years (Im not saying this is a good or a bad thing, its simply a result of the way the aviation industry has turned out and I might add is NOT a fault of the new wannabies.)

WD

[dontpressthat]

Just wondering....

Im assuming its a suit and tie day?

DPT

[MrHorgy]

Yup, go smart - although possibly not in a pilots uniform, when I went there were a bunch that just stuck out like sore thumbs!

Horgy

[dontpressthat]

Cheers for the shockingly quick reply there horgy.. would you recomend the full shirt and tie effort then?

DPT

[MrHorgy]

Yeah, Pprune seems to send me about 8 notifications of replies, so I'm kinda forced to :}

I'd go trousers smart shirt minimum, but I wore shirt and tie and I work here now, so I must have done something right.

Horgy

[dontpressthat]

Ok will do... Hopefully I'll be able to say the same as you in a few months time. How are you finding it there?

People seem to turn their nose up when I say im going along but it seems like a good deal to me. If you dont mind me asking, how many hours etc did you have when you applied?

Feel free to PM the answer if you prefer.

DPT

[ford cortina]

If you are considering the Ryanair route, then good luck, you will need it.
I went to an open day a few months ago. To be really honest apart from the sim and cabin they use for training it was all fluff. Ryanair love to tell you how good they are. Then you get the talk about the job by two pilots, YYZ was one. After that the Job talk and info about Brookfield. The main man kept saying that Ryanair's favourite word is 'Tough'
I felt that this was all a very expensive route into a airline job.
Funnily enough, here I am a few months later being paid to fly 700's and 800's.

[Lord Lardy]

Whoopeydoo

Haven't checked back on this forum in a while. In relation to my post above it was was actually in reponse to Stallstrip, more specifically when I said "inexperienced dreams" when he starting taking about hand flying at 38000ft and all the rest etc. The post was not a swipe at you at all. Yes I certainly take your point that the route is now changed to getting that first job. As you said is it a good or a bad thing. Well it's impossible to say. It's certainly not my job to say either way.
Now, time for me to retreat again and let it get back to the original topic.
LL

[mlee]

Hi could someone please clarify a few things for me. Just gained my Frozen ATPL, thinking of going down the Ryanair route. I know I would have to find the funds to pay for the TR; do Ryanair assist you in this, i.e. recommend or put you in touch with a lending provider?

Regards Mark

[MrHorgy]

mlee - no.

Horgy

[WHOOPEYDOO]

Lord Lardy,

Thanks for the clarification, as you copied and pasted a direct quote of mine, I thought that you were having a go, not to worry, its all happy again, like you say let it go back on topic once more

cheers
WD

[-8AS]

Ford Cortina, who are you flying NG's for?

[badboy raggamuffin]

WHOOPEYDOO,

I agree that a guy with 1000hrs on jet will probalby look more attractive to a jet operator than a guy with 1000hrs on props on paper at least. But if the jet guy is a clown and the prop guy isn't then the prop guy would get hired.
Im sorry, but its this "5 year thing" which I dont quite understand.

you say earlier that "starting with ryan air puts you 5 years ahead of any prop job",

and then in later post you seem to think that one needs to spend 5 years on turboprops before even getting a sniff at a jet. I simply don't agree with your statements. I am indeed a prop pilot and will not deny for one minute that I would like to move on to jets, but only for the better salary if I am honest. With 500 to 1000 prop hrs, which will take me say 1-2 years, Im pretty confident of being able to land a nice jet job with a decent airline.

[dontpressthat]

So is anybody going to the open day this sunday? (10th feb)

DPT

[mlee]

Yea I'll be there. Looking forward to it. Hoping to get some good feedback before interview.

Mark

[RD29]

i am...do you have an interview with them yet dontpress?

[mlee]

Not yet, hoping to get one soon with them, just achieved my fATPL.

Mark

[dontpressthat]

Any idea, how many people will be there? Are you guys (rd29. mlee) staying up there there sat night or arriving sun morning?

DPT

[mlee]

I’m just going to travel down early Sun morning, not sure weather to put a suit on or just go fairly smart!!?

Mark

[RD29]

I will be travelling down on sundayam....donttouch that do you have an interview with them yet?

I think I will just go smart, its an openday.

[BottyTotty]

Been there done that.

I joined FR as a low houred guy on the 200. before the days of paid for type ratings, am still here 7 years later.

You should seriously consider it, yes its very expensive, but so was your licence, and you are not bonded and will earn more than most from year 2.

If you work out your potential earnings over 5 years, including command at year 4, you will see that you will be better off than many other jobs over that period.

It aint perfert, far from it and they are tough, but safety is not an issue, Ryanair are playing market forces and always will, but they will not scrimp a single euro on safety or crew training which are superb. The Aircraft are technically immaculate and it is the one of the best Airline jobs if you want to hand fly the plane which is encouraged.

But you will be pretty skint for the 6 months and should account for that.

Good look

[dontpressthat]

Nope RD, I dont have an interview yet.. hoping to speak to the right people on sunday.

Bottytotty, thanks for the info.. Nice to hear something positive.

DPT

[glide_approach]

Hi

Just wondering what people thought of the open day last Sunday, what sort of info you picked up, how many people there etc?

Thanks

glide_approach

[dontpressthat]

Glide...

Personally I thought it was good, answered all my questions and got all the info I was looking for. All the Ryanair bods there were friendly willing to chat and discuss anything. There was a fair bit of standing around but thats unavoidable at those sort of events.
Be prepared for the car park at EMA though, £12 to park all day!!
Apparently theres limited parking behind RYR building so when you get there its worth checking before you get fleeced in the short stay.

DPT

[glide_approach]

Thanks for that DPT, wasn't able to make it to that one, might try top head along to the next one.

[WHOOPEYDOO]

I would say that if anyone were a clown, they would not get the job, but I know what your saying, sometimes though when you are flight an aircraft that is a lot lighter than a 737 the operators dont recognise your hours as being relevant and captains of lighter weight jets even would have to start as cadets. I know one guy who is struggling to decide on his future as this is precisely the case for him with FR. Perhaps "5" was not a totally accurate figure to quote in todays employment market, I was just trying to make the point that starting on a jet you are ahead of a person starting on a prop who generally would want to progress onto jets and even being senior on a prop, youll have to start at the bottom of the ladder on a jet so you are on the botto of the ladder twice ie prop and then jet, anyway Im sure you can see the point that Im trying to make,

Gotta go
cheers
WD