Flight Plans & Operator Insurance Policies

[shoey1976]

Dear all

Ian Shoesmith from BBC News here again. As part of my research into a possible story, I'd like to have a quick chat (for briefing only, and certainly not for publication or broadcast) about the way airlines insure themselves. I believe it is routine for airlines to "pick and mix" insurance cover based upon the countries over which they intend to fly?

I don't know this for sure, but I'd guess that certain countries carry a higher risk, and hence premium? Eg insurance cover to fly over Iraq probably costs a lot more than it does to hop over Ireland?

What I need to do is to obtain the flightplans for a certain operator's routes from the UK to a couple of specific longhaul destinations. Are they pretty much constant, or do they vary significantly on a day-to-day basis eg because of weather?

The CAA tell me that this isn't their responsibility, and that it's something I'd need to obtain from the relevant airline; or from NATS. I fear I may come against rejection from the latter on the grounds of confidentiality.

Anybody with any information on this, please get in touch. As always, any information provided will be in strictest confidence.

Thanks for taking the time to read this long post - I've tried to be as concise as possible.

Ian Shoesmith
BBC News
020 8624 9505 / 07769 977665 (best option, cos am frequently either away from my desk, or working from home)
[email protected]
or PM me shoey1976

[sleeper]

What's the news value here?
Insurance is insurance right?

[747-436]

What I need to do is to obtain the flightplans for a certain operator's routes from the UK to a couple of specific longhaul destinations. Are they pretty much constant, or do they vary significantly on a day-to-day basis eg because of weather?

Longhaul routes vary depending on weather and other things like airspace closures and there is also a lot more that is taken into account.

Routes out of the USA to Europe are in the public domain on some websites.

Are you going to be running a scare story saying xxx airline flies over Iraq and Afganistan lots on the way to the far east?!?!

[shoey1976]

"scare story re Iraq and Afghanistan..."?

nope! The analogy I'm drawing is that if I were to take my knackered old Golf (which is insured in the UK) to France, and had an accident, I wouldn't be insured, and would be liable in the event of coming a cropper.

I'm just wondering if the same applies in aviation?

Ian

PS thanks for information about flightplans changing because of weather etc

[Shiny side down]

Actually, you might be insured if you took your knackered old golf over to France. My car insurance for years has included some form of european cover.
I'm just not certain that you'd be welcome. But that's another story.

[lhuingysaer]

Hi Ian.

Well I work in Aviation Insurance and can state with some level of certainty that some carriers are required to pay or take out additional policies to cover flights to and from specific countries ie Iran/ Afghanistan/ Iraq. A bog standard airline All Risks policy is worldwide but obviously excludes these countries and any state that is subject to UN sanctions.

Kind regards, Richard

[clipstone1]

A market standard airline hull and liability policy is valid worldwide, there will be an exclusion for operating into certain countries (not for overflying) but would include a condition that commercial airlanes are open and the use of them and payment of overflying charges does not breach UN sanctions.
Operations into restricted countries, Iraq for example, can be agreed with the insurance market and would be charged based on the aircraft type, the type of passengers to be carried, how long the aircraft was planned to be on the ground and if it is a one off ad-hoc or a more regular service etc.
The one other thing I would add is the in the event that an aircraft was required to divert into an excluded country, say due to a critical tech problem to the aircraft whilst overflying, then normal insurance cover still applies even though prior agreement has not been reached with insurers (at a cost to be agreed after the event).
Does that help?
Clipstone.....

[Swiss Cheese]

The so called War Risk insurance story to dangerous places is old news. The best consumer angle at the moment is a certain low cost airline charging its pax an insurance surcharge for War Risks that is allegedly well in excess of the real charge. The EU Commission are looking into abusive/misleading pricing of airfares as we speak. Very topical.

:ugh:

[clipstone1]

a low cost airline flying into somewhere that requires "war risks surcharges" hmmm....where will they be flying into?