Pilot shortage ??? is it worth having a crack again?

[flyingtake2]

Been following the media comment and pprune comments in the last few weeks re the supposed pilot shortage.
I gave flying away around 98 /99 - did my commercial training, ran out of money at the time, got married - all that sort of stuff and basically gave it away for a another career. didnt do any commercial paid flying, instrument ratings etc
Fast forward to 2007 and that other career has been financially rewarding, own a nice house, my family it set up and have some good money in the bank. Not loaded but very comfortable and now able to consider a "curve ball".

I must be _ _ cking mad.......but I have been entertaining the idea, given every thing I have been reading of late having another crack at aviation. My decision to get out of flying was a hard one at the time - i was 28 at the time and wasnt real keen on the idea of forking out more money and being broke for another few years given the employment prospects at the time in aviation and the need to go bush.

At the age of 37 - am I _ _ cking crazy or what. I don't aspire to a big shiny jet (it would of been nice but I am a realist here) . I aspire to flying for a career cause I enjoy it, but I also would like to think that I can earn a half decent bloody income 70 to 80 k a year would be a nice thought. I would love instructing but I am led to believe the money is ****e!

I also want to stay in WA metro.

Am I a lunatic contemplating this or are my ideas feasible given the supposed "pilot shortage". How do you rate my chances with 300 odd hours in the book now and i Go and blow some more money out the exhaust pipe to get MECIR and twin / and perhaps instructor rating.

Interested in feedback if you have a minute.

What has also caught my attention is the number of instructors at RACWA moving onwards and upwards in the last few months..

[MACH082]

become a grade 1 with META and you may get within 10K of the sums quoted. A CFI perhaps even more.

Contact Peter Nottle at China Southern. He will steer you in the right direction, and i believe they do their ratings now at TAC. expect about 33K as a junior grade 3 and let it increase until you reach your goals.

The RFDS are always looking for older career guys, so maybe keep that in mind as a career goal.

Remember it will be hard on your family and dont catch AIDS along the way (aviation induced divorce syndrome)

Good Luck

[Lodown]

There was something recently in another posting that mentioned the RACWA implementing a program to assist pilots with lapsed instructor ratings. (I hope my memory is serving me faithfully here.) If the instructor shortage is acute as it is made out to be, then I'd ask around and look at getting a rating and doing some freelance work and perhaps some occasional charter on the weekends if acceptable to the flight schools. In this way, you can enjoy your flying and get your fix without making a huge career and family commitment. It will be tough dragging kids out of school, pulling up roots, etc., to now chase an airline job. Make sure you get an appropriate level of pay though. You might want the work for the long term and if you don't take the pay into consideration, the fun quickly wears thin and you'll be back where you are now.

[40Deg STH]

Flying take 2,

Go and do it and hurry, you will never regret it if your serious. As my wife says "I don"t want you to be sitting in your rocking chair and say I wish I did .....".
i have been flying airlines for years now and fly with pilots who got into it later in life. They are a lot easier to have beside you and interesting to chat to on a 12 hour sector, as they have had a life.lol.
with the way the industry is worldwide, you should expect to get an airline position in a couple of years. Don"t stuff around. make a plan with time lines and target only jobs that will help your progression and move onto the next ie; multi/turbine and always continue to apply for airline postions.
all the best and we"ll see you out there if your serious.

Well done

[152Jockey]

I'm giving the professional pilot thing a crack at the age of 34, and I've only got 16 hrs under my belt! I think if you want it enough you'll do it, age shouldn't be too big an issue if you are motivated and sell yourself well.

Plenty of people in the game are telling me that now is a good time to do it, its still a tough industry to crack but at least there are a few opportunities around at the moment.

Good luck.

[tinpis]

If youre prepared to put this .... Fast forward to 2007 and that other career has been financially rewarding, own a nice house, my family it set up and have some good money in the bank ....on the line do it.

Remember there WILL be an "adjustment"

[MinimaNoContact]

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=300264
Go for it, there hasnt been a better time to have a shot. Plus you are already way in front of the guys starting out.
With the link above stating the massive orders QF have, and you wanting to stay in Perth, it will suit guys like you down to the ground. If all else fails and you cant get a job with Jetstar out of Perth, NJS and Skywest will have lost that many pilots to the Jetstar Perth base that you will be able to walk straight into either job... which you can almost do now!

[Never To Old]

I have been a pprune member for some time but this will be my first post. As you can tell by my user name I to have entered aviation at a later stage in life (34). I have not committed to pursuing a full time aviation career but have entertained to idea of becoming a part time instructor or charter pilot. I have very flexible employment that would allow me the time needed to study and train as well as work in aviation down the track. I would also be interested to hear other people’s thoughts on the age thing.

[blow.n.gasket]

Aviation in Australia today,
Full time Job , Part time pay!:eek:
However you have to be in it to win it!

[flyingtake2]

Thanks to all for the feedback. Got some decisions to make.

I just wonder if this whole "pilot shortage" is a gimmick / media play / vested interests playing the game of shortage. I don't have the benefit of knowing to many professional pilots - I have a couple of overseas airline pilot mates - but they are out of touch with Western Australia employment market.

I would be happy with being a Perth Based GA pilot flying something half decent or instructing. I want to earn a reasonably decent income within 5 odd years 70 to 100 k - I still don't get the logic that a grade 3 instructor gets paid 33k a year - I currentlhy part own / operate a real estate business and I pay my junior receptionist 31k a year with a 6 month TAFE partime qualification!!!. Nothing new to aviation, but spend big $$ for your qualifications and then get receptionist wages. what a joke.

I sincerly hope that with the supposed shortage that all your guys and gals started getting paid alot better $$$ - you deserve it.

If I make a run at aviation I reckon id like to try and change that in my career. And I am qualified bean counter / commerce degree!!!!. I just dont get how the industry values pilots - as key staff they should be paid well. Lesson 101 in real life financial management (not the uni ****) is product + people = profit. Obviously operators dont get this.

thanks again and I congratulate all those out there that are now enjoying a more buyont employment market - becoming a professonial pilot - whilst a lot of fun takes a lot of committiment and sacrifices.

[tinpis]

There ya go..concentrate on owning the other part of the Real Estate biz and buy yer own plane :ok:

I would say you are not ...not ...not gonna like what you get dished up to you in GA.

[Lodown]

I'm with Tinpis. Keep your business and work towards buying a plane, or renting a nice one.

[MinimaNoContact]

Or, get back into it, do an Instructor Rating and Instruct part-time on weekends/when you can, and get a feel for whats happening in the industry.
If you like it, continue building hours try to get some twin teaching in there and open yourself up to companies like Skywest (lifestyle). You will NOT like the 'B' scale at NJS, starting on 58k to fly a B717/BAe146...
Even Network Av. is starting to retain their pilots longer these days, because... you guessed it... theyre paying them for it! Career progression onto jets will be attractive for pilots sticking around too, getting their first F100 shortly.

[flyingtake2]

Thanks again for responses - food for thought.

The problem with aviation it seems is that once its in your blood - your a gonna!

[Spelunker]

"would be happy with being a Perth Based GA pilot flying something half decent or instructing. I want to earn a reasonably decent income within 5 odd years 70 to 100 k - I still don't get the logic that a grade 3 instructor gets paid 33k a year - "


If this was any other post people would be have by now called it a wind-up.

I would consider a job with REX as "flying something half decent", and as I understand it, the pilots are getting no-where near 70-100K. And you're thinking instructing with 70-100K on your mind. Come on.
Realistically 70-100K is a job with the major airlines of Australia, anything "half-decent" and you can cut your figure in half.

And don't be fooled into believing that a junior grade 3 will get 31K a year.


You seem to have more than enough hours to snag a first-job. Spend a couple of years in GA and you'll have more than enough experience to realistically apply for the airlines. So go for it.

[flyingtake2]

Gidday
this isnt a wind up.... I am just interested to know whats going on with the real people at the coal face. I have been out of any form of flying for a good couple of years - hence I dont have any mates in the flying game at the moment (apart from a couple of ppls / weekend bashers).

I am sceptical of media, and vested interests around the place (flying schools) - and have always looked to PPRUNe for the real story overall.

There is no way I expect to earn the coin I mention for instructing - nor do I really think airlines in Aus would look at me anytime in the future (I am 37 now with no twin time etc). If I do this I am not chasing the airline thing.

My main interest was to try and figure out if I bite the bullet is:
1. If I was at some stage in the next 5 years (after doing instructing maybe ) cracked a gig with Skippers, Skywest or one of the other local (Perth) smaller GA / RPT operators what sort of $$ you can earn.
2. What instructors around the place are actually earning at the moment.
3. I have read the pilot awards and stuff, but I just wanted a real handle of what is being earnt.


Appreciate all feedback and just trying work out the b/s from the real deal. I am afraid I view most media and alot of the flying schools as being the b/s (learnt from experience re flying schools).

[MinimaNoContact]

Network Bras Capt's are on around $85k Im told, the Skippers package has also increased from what Ive heard. Not bad for GA.

[flyingtake2]

that sounds reasonable thanks

[agcatman]

:confused:I too gave away flying in 2001. I have 3100 hrs, 600 multi, Multi IR, all ATPLs. I am 45. What do you guys reckon about trying to re enter the market and who would employ me in Sydney.
Your thoughts are appreciated.

[KRUSTY 34]

agcatman,

Who would employ you in Sydney?

Just about everyone!

[Capt Wally]

I would have to say that 99% (well maybe not quite that much) of people in here love flying. Having said that that love comes at a cost. To decide to take up aviation at a latter stage in life than would normally be expected (say 16 yrs of age) is certaintly a challenge. I for one didn't start 'till I wa 24, flew privately 'till I was 30, gained a basic CPL, then twin IFR rating & never went down the track of instructing. That was mainly 'cause in those days you had enough money to do one or the other (that being twin IFR or instructing) I chose the formentioned & have done well considering my late start & somewhat limited funds at the time. It's a different beast these days with employment being far more wide spread than it was way back then. Nobody knows all the answers here, sure it's a tough environment out there in aviation, what professional industry isn't!Always & I mean always have a go if you can afford to, & I don't mean just in the monetery terms either. There's not much point in sitting in that mythical rocking chair of life on that mythical veranda 'wishing' you had at least tried.
Sure I can see the point of some in here saying don't do it, stay where you are doing well & buy a plane to satisfy that urge, but your not them, you are YOU with yr own reasons and risks to take further in life.
Enjoy flying for all the time we spend as unhappy campers here we still all love that one single goal that brings us all here..FLYING.........ya gotta love that freedom at any cost !:-)

Capt Wally...............wings are not just for birds !:-)

[agcatman]

This is scary stuff. I am earning enough to support my wife and kids, but miss flying too much. I cannot afford to go down the Instructing road again so I will look into other avenues.
Thanks for your words of wisdom, I will definately look seriously into dusting off my logbook and enjoying myself again.
Here's hoping I'll be sitting in that rocking chair saying...Yes, I did that!!

[flyingtake2]

Thanks for all input. I had an instructor whos was inspiring to me a few years ago. flew for the first time early fortys and become an instructor, and probably one of the best teacheers I have ever met.

thanks Flyingtake 2.

[Pinky the pilot]

For what it's worth coming from me flyingtake2; I'm now 53 and have'nt flown anything in over two years, around 3,500TT, over 1,000ME Command and have held a MEIFR with six renewals to date and I'm going to give it a go in getting back into the industry!:ok:

I have absolutely no intention of one day winding up in the local old folks home (God's waiting room in other words) saying things like....
''I wish I'd.......'':ugh:

I'd rather live until I'm 98 then get shot by someone's jealous husband!!:E

[Towering Q]

have'nt flown anything in over two years

For a minute there Pinky I thought you must have been an SO somewhere.

Great post Capt Wally.:ok:

[saabsforever]

Agcatman, You may be surprised on todays market, I am also 45 and figured I would be flying Saabs or similar forever, hence my title. But in the last year I have had 3 interviews for the 737, one for a Command slot in Hong Kong. Sadly I failed miserably at all three for various reasons but must be getting better at them and there are plenty more opportunites out there. Sure about double the experience but all the Air Transport stuff outside NZ/Australia, the local Airlines seem to need local experience. Age is not the big barrier it once was and with a bit of Aussie IFR you should find a good seat somewhere. I think they have found grumpy old gits are sound steady hands and much less likely to head off to major Airlines overseas, so actually have a longer return of service as well.

[yowdude]

sell one of those cars you dont need and take the plunge!!!!!!

[flyingtake2]

thanks to everyone for feedback. Had a couple of interesting private responses there are some very happy and very unhappy dudes out there.