Flightwatch – 27 VHF outlets being closed

[Slugfest]

Interesting about the arguements on staff numbers that ATC are down.

TFN says 17, Civil Air say 90 odd - I don't know who to believe really.

Taking worst case??; lets say that ATCs are down 100 out of a requirement of 900. Thats only an 11.1% shortfall.

Yes I know, half are oldies about to retire etc etc etc but there is an old age profile across all the organisation.

So here is my point, my spying sources in the ausfic say that they are down 18+% down and most of that is directly attributable TFN's redundancy cleanout.

Last one out please turn off the lights....

[Aus ATC]

Captain Midnight,

The NOTAM you refer to was issued because the "Flightwatch to ATC" project forgot to update all the charts, AIP, ERSA etc effective June 08. Someone noticed the inconsistency (ie the AIP SUP had cancelled but ATC were still providing ex Flightwatch FIS), so a NOTAM had to be published to reactivate the AIP SUP till the charts etc are fixed.

A bit embarrasing really, but what else can you expect at the moment!!

[Former AusFICer]

Dick,

Despite your actions last year, I'm informed that Airservices has resumed its intention to close the Flightwatch VHF on 27 August 2009. One of my old mates was at a recent RAPAC where this was stated by an Airservices representative.

Apparently the external to TAAATS "FIS" service will still be available on HF for those who have it. Otherwise pilots will have to ask for FIS on the ATC area frequency. (If the controller has time)

Regards
AusFICer

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Well well.......

Seems like the 'Honeymoon' is over and 'tis time to get 'that' wheel turnin' agin.....

The 'Final Demise' is in the wings.(?)

What a debacle!!

From 12/12/91 - when you-know-who decided HE didn't want 'Good Ole FS' anymore. We cost too much - apparently - till now!

Well, what are you left with now?

And are you paying any LESS???
(In TOTAL fees and charges....I know the fuel tax is gone!
But which was better??)

"Your Safety Will Be Enhanced and It Will Cost You Less".........Remember??
That's....
C orporate
R ehash of
A cronym
P latitudes

"Service will be available for those that have HF".....

Have you really tried calling on HF since the 'automated signal strength
gizzmo' has been installed - like - the operator has no way of selecting the better signal by judicious selection of the limited controls he/she used to have - it is supposedly done 'automatically' now - and the signal is either heard or it is not! That's PROGRESS!!!!

It is thought by some that this multi $$$ automated 'system' was introduced so that it would be 'just like VHF to select/operate', and therefore useable by ATC at an ATC console without any further training in the vagaries of HF, thereby allowing remaining FS staff to be dispensed with.......

"When workload permits" is something you are going to hear a lot more of - I would venture.....:}

p.s. Thanks again for the redundo Dick......

Cheers to all....:ok:

[Dick Smith]

Ex FSO GRIFFO, what rubbish. The AMATS document clearly showed that there would be two automated Flight Service stations in Australia, with many VHF outlets across the country – just like the US system.

Under the Review of Resources – and Flight Service was part of this – staff numbers went from 7,000 to about 3,500. Do you really consider that this hasn’t been a saving to the industry? In fact, there is no doubt that the industry saved over $1 billion in the last 17 years.

I have always believed that we should have a separate Flight Service system in the same way as the USA and Canada. Whilst I want air traffic controllers to offer a radar service where radar is available, I’ve always wanted a separate system for weather, flight plan opening and closing etc.

There are no proposals in the USA under NAS to close down their VHF Flight Service system – even though it has been contracted out to a non-government entity.

The latest decision means that air traffic controllers who are responsible for separating traffic will also be giving weather information and accepting flight plans. This is obviously a crock. I would say it is all about Airservices increasing its profits and CASA not doing its job.

[cattledog]

Air traffic controllers accepting flight plans !!!!!!!!!!!
Now that is FUNNY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:D:D

[Sunfish]

The trouble with technology is that without careful analysis, there can be unintended consequences....

Let me tell you a cautionary tale from the marine industry....

Many years ago ships carried radio operators. It was required by law for safety.

Along came Satellite communications, GPS and digital HF receivers.

A bright boffin invented "Digital Selective calling" - a dedicated frequency where digital broadcasts can be made containg formatted information, like the fact that you were sinking and your lat./Lon.

The ship owners thought this was a wonderful idea and the regulations were changed. The radio operators were fired and replaced by a big red "Emergency" button for the skipper to push if things got dangerous, and it broadcast a "Mayday" and your location to every ship that could hear you.

As soon as this was implemented, guess what? The alarm kept going off as your radio asked you to acknowledge a Mayday call by a ship a thousand miles away that you had no chance of helping.

Furthermore, without a dedicated radio operator, the crews decided that monitoring radios was a waste of time. Try calling a ship on VHF in the open ocean - you will not get a reply 99% of the time.

Then this technology was put into VHF marine sets and advertised to the local boaters for $400. Guess what? Not even the mighty U.S. Coastguard will monitor DSC because every idiot who runs out of fuel or gets a fish hook stuck in his arm punches the red button.

Australia closed down all but Two of its Coastal radio stations because of all this new technology.

So now when I am at sea and something goes wrong for me, what do I do? Is there a friendly voice I can call up who knows the sea, has the emergency services at the tip of his finger, and with whom I can discuss my predicament and what to do about it? Nope.

...All I have is my EPIRB, so the response to my emergency is not going to be graded according to its immediacy or severity, it's one size fits all.

You might like to think about that, and as I said before.

If GA is provided with no service, and the response to requests for information is "eff off", then I predict you are going to start seeing massive disobedience of all sorts of rules.

[Icarus2001]

So now when I am at sea and something goes wrong for me, what do I do? Is there a friendly voice I can call up who knows the sea, has the emergency services at the tip of his finger, and with whom I can discuss my predicament and what to do about it? Nope.
No but YES.

To complete your marine analogy. Limited coast radio stations...VMR/Sea Rescue groups fill the gap. Unpaid volunteers who hold raffles to raise funds and get limited financial help from state governments and lottery funds.

So perhaps this is where AsA wants us to go.

[bushy]

Airmedical services in the outback are being provided "on the cheap" by the RFDS which raises lots of money from the public to make up the shortfall.
Religious and aboriginal organisations can also provide cheap services and make up the shortfall from the public or subsidies. (remember ATSIC?)
This is one of the reasons why the GA industry is impoverished and struggling to maintain standards.
Income from flying has been driven to a very low level.

[Dick Smith]

Owen Stanley, you have got it right. I’m totally for saving money wherever possible and totally against spending extra money unless there is a rational reason for doing so.

The reason I am like this is that I am concerned about the number of pilots who have already lost their jobs, and those who are most likely to do so in the future.

I am a businessman and I know how to expand a business to employ more people. That is, keep the costs down and the income high.

[Slugfest]

ROFL......This IS funny......

"Coast Radio Adelaide Victor India Alpha" is a coast radio station that monitors and responds to emergency HF radio calls by marine vessels primarily in SA waters but does hear and responds to distress and urgency calls all around Australia.

It is one of 9 Australian stations that monitor the HF distress frequencies and the makes regular maritime safety broadcasts for sea areas D, E and F.

The DSC alerts are monitored by the RCC as a separate function as is the broadcast of weather info on behalf of the BOM.

"Coast Radio Adelaide Victor India Alpha" is a duty undertaken by Airservices Australia Ausfic staff in Brisbane under contract to the SA government along side monitoring of a number of VHF channels in SA coastal waters.