Lookout Qantas-Emirates will be looking for pilots.

[Lord Flashhart]

Check out the Middle East thread on the massive A350 order from Emirates- 120 A350s and another 11 A380s (total now at 66 380s)
:eek::ok:

[Sonny Hammond]

Mutley, are you joking?

[ernestkgann]

No he's not. Try living in Dubai for 10 years.

[greenslopes]

Wouldn't want to go to the sandpit for all the tea in "The fragrant harbour".

[strobe12]

Bloody amazing order for Emirates, their order book must be HUGE!! Good on em for taking positive steps for the future, and before people start slagging them out for being government owned etc etc its still a huge step forward.

You watch, Qantas will sit around for ages, doing farkall as usual, "Oh still looking at this n that n to see what colour the wheels options will be" before the order anything.

Cant see how the Qantas big wigs complain about lack of capacity but refuse to buy more aeroplanes. Yes i know the A380 are coming, but in dribs n drabs. The 787's, well who knows when you will see them in QF colours. Looking at the QF delivery sched, Nov 2011 is the first one (thats not including the second hand ones coming to QF back form Geoff*, if that happens at all:hmm:)

Wonder if those smarty pants bean counters are wishing that they didnt sell off the options of another 15 A330 when they purchased the intial ones, oops, cant get em now, well done ya spanners, sell off the options to make the books look good but dont consider the future.

Reckon they will have metal detectors at the AGM??....:oh:

[Going Boeing]

20+ years ago, CX paid a huge premium above QF for pilots as an offset for having to live in HKG (was actually stated as such by CX interviewers). The current pay scales do not offer a premium which is why CX has had to offer positions based in Oz.

EK does not offer a premium to live in the sandpit and have no intentions to base pilots in OZ - I don't see any temptation for current QF pilots to leave no matter how many aeroplanes EK order.

I think that this order is great because it increases the demand for pilots and subsequently the remuneration and T's & C's can only improve.

[Mstr Caution]

Anyone who thinks there wont be changes with a new QF CEO should get there heads out of the clouds.

[Keg]

MC, that's twice in two threads that you've alluded to a possible change in direction with a new CEO. I wonder if perhaps you're hearing the same rumours that I am- that is that many in the upper echelons of QF aren't thrilled with the 'two airline' strategy and are marking time until they can change it.

Of course, this doesn't mean that it'll be the end of J* or the JPC as I fully expect that any change- particularly to the LH business- will simply involve the repainting of aeroplanes.

[wrongwayaround]

G'day Keg, how are you mate :ok:

QF aren't thrilled with the 'two airline' strategy and are marking time until they can change it.


will simply involve the repainting of aeroplanes.

I'm quite interested to know a bit more about this.... I'm not in the 'know' (as they say) on this one... :ok:

and just a message to anyone... You can do much worse than living in Dubai. I suspect people who say 'Try and live in Dubai for 10 years' probably have never worked as an Expat? I've worked in 3 3rd world countries as an Expat now, and can strongly suggest that Dubai will be one of the most amazing places, full of opportunity for fun and personal growth. Enjoy it - especially if they're paying you what you're worth.

As for Qantas... Never had an application in there... possibly never will... Seems they (management/recruitment) really do need to get with the times.

[HotDog]

Wrongwayaround, you are right about Dubai. I've never lived there but spent a lot of time in the place as it was our crew change on the way to Europe. Absolutely great place for entertainment, food, golf, watersport, shopping, etc. I miss it in retirement.

[Pundit]

Qantas may not be wrapped in the two airline model but mark my words, if one goes it will not be the cost effective one.

Stars may be replaced with roos, but the JQ contracts and cost structure will survive.

[wrongwayaround]

Pundit -

If stars are replaced with Roo's..... What happens to the Tech & Cabin crew.

Surely... and I say this VERY loosly, the Jetstar employees do not have the same badge of honour, finness and superiority complex as Qantas employees :ok:

[Mr. Hat]

Had a read on the middle eastern forum and it aint all roses there either. As Keg says though - it'll increase demand which can only be a good thing.

Its got to be a pretty good deal for a qf fella to pack up and move to the desert. EK are going to have to up the cash me thinks.

[Cactus Jak]

You watch, Qantas will sit around for ages, doing farkall as usual, "Oh still looking at this n that n to see what colour the wheels options will be" before the order anything.

While this happens, Singapore/Tiger will go for the jugular.

[rammel]

With all the aircraft QF have on order for delivery to QF, it is only an increase of 10 or so aircraft in QF over the next say 5-7 years. Most of the 787's are to replace the B767's and B747-300's, and the A380's with start to replace the old B747-400's.

Everyone else in this part of the world seems to be expanding, both low cost and so called legacy airlines, but QF is just waiting to do as it always does and follow everyone else. With the backlog of aircraft orders there may be, they may be left behind. Is that good forward planning by GD and his boys? I guess it doesn't matter as he won't be collecting bonuses by then.

[Mr. Hat]

120 a350s is a lot.

How many pilots do EK need? I've heard all sorts of different figures. Anyone have any numbers?

[Wizofoz]

We need our pilot numbers to be 370 greater that they are now by the end of 2008, which with attrition and retirements means we need to recruit around 500.

Thats just next year!

Requirements like this will be on-going.

Whilst pay and conditions are fine at the moment, there seems little doubt they are going to have to both kick it up a notch, and probably drop entry requirements to achieve this.

There is an absolute crisis here getting those we have employed trained.

Interesting times!!

[Going Boeing]

EK do not supply as much in-flight relief as QF does under CAO48. If you are considering going to the sandpit, think about the long term - ie your fatigue levels will be consistently higher than flying with an Oz based operator and your ability to enjoy life with your spouse and offspring will be reduced. Oz ATCO's have said that they often have experienced problems communicating with EK aircraft due to uncontrolled flight deck napping - these guys work very hard for the money that they are paid.

[ernestkgann]

Been in Dubai nine years so reckon I'd have fair idea of what it's like living there for ten years. Refer to the one million other threads about life in Dubai.

[Mstr Caution]

Shouldn't the thread be titled;

"Lookout Jet* - Emirates are looking for Pilots"?

Keg

- Maybe we are hearing the same rumours.
- I've always been of the opinion that whilst ever a cost differential exists between mainline & Jetstar the two will co-exist. Consider the current environment (read pilot shortage) & the potential affect to Jetstar terms & conditions. The JPC need only realise & act on the current need for crews. Therein, the problem exists. Improve the pay & conditions & reduce the competitiveness of the operation.

Pundit - The initial 2 airline model didnt plan for a shortage of pilots.

Wrongwayround- Just like QLink to Qantas. Same with J*, any tech crew looking to transfer to Mainline would have to pass the usual selection process. (just like the mou).:8

[Mstr Caution]

post removed.

[Mstr Caution]

Of course, this doesn't mean that it'll be the end of J* or the JPC as I fully expect that any change- particularly to the LH business- will simply involve the repainting of aeroplanes


I think the latter will only be painted once, what's your favourite colour?:8

[Lord Flashhart]

Hey Ernst, Sorry to hear of your poor lifestyle in Dubai. Time to up stumps hey.
The ex Qantas guys I speak to here seem to have made the right choice for themselves.
Anyways, the point is EK have ordered one hell of a lot of jets and that has to be good for the industry over in Dubai.

[strobe12]

Podbreak my suggestion is that once again, QF are doing jack about expanding the company all the while complaining about lack of capacity.

Yes EK arent getting their first A350 till 2015, but how many other airframes are they recieveing before that time?? A betting man would say more then Qantas.

As Rammel said, there will be a little bit of expansion but so far nothing is set in concrete.

The 787 is designed to be a 767 replacement aeroplane intially. Geoff* get the first 14 airframes, so far QF is only slated to get 19 machines, and then the second hand ones back from G* as the longrange 787 come into service. This is only enough to cover the 767 plus a few extras.

Where the remaining airframes will go is anyones guess. GD has stated on numerous occasions that the rest of the 787 order will goto the best model that makes $$$

The view that myself and many others take is because of GD's past. I wouldnt trust that guy as far as i could throw him!

Heres hoping that a change at the top will bring a positive change to a company that has low morale in many sections.

[Capt Kremin]

Regarding expansion, you guys seem to be forgetting the new A330's on order.

IF and I stress IF they and the 8 A330's that Jetstar will have come back to QF, then that will be a fleet expansion as well. The A330 fleet will number 22 if that occurs.

With the constant rumours that Geoffs sh!t is actually starting to stink, then pilots considering coming back to J* to take up AWA's may be advised to have a good think about it. The deal only really works if Jetstar intl expands enough to avoid a return to the RHS after five years. If the model does not work as they expect, or a change at the top means more of a concentration on mainline that may not happen.

I don't think anyone is seriously questioning the Jetstar domestic operation, but there are starting to be real question marks over Jetstar Intl.

[Wiley]

I read threads like this with some interest, hoping to get a feel for the situation in Oz from people who are currently there, because it's a very long time since I've worked in the industry in Oz. And then I come upon a gem like this, from Going BoeingOz ATCO's have said that they often have experienced problems communicating with EK aircraft due to uncontrolled flight deck napping - these guys work very hard for the money that they are paid.and find myself wondering how much of the other information I've read is of a similar level of utter bullsh-one-t. Even if the ATCOs' assertion that they "frequently have trouble communicating with EK aircraft" is right, how in the hell could anyone assume it was "due to uncontrolled flight deck napping"?

Give me bloody strength!

[SOPS]

Wiley....my thoughts exactly......very well said:D

[Going Boeing]

Wiley, two guys that I know at EK confirmed that it happens on occasions.

I'm not having a go at EK as I have great respect for the airline and am happy that they are ordering large quantities of aircraft thus increasing demand for pilots. I am just trying to give a heads-up to pilots that are considering moving to the sandpit that EK will get their pound of flesh out of them.

[Pundit]

Mstr Caution I agree with your statement viz. 'Improve the pay & conditions & reduce the competitiveness of the operation'.

However it does the cause little when an F/O in JQ under the MOU proposes on the internal site that all JQ crew should take a pay cut!!!

Maybe the "new boots" sees himself as a candidate to take AJ's job.

[Three Wire]

Oz ATCO's have said that they often have experienced problems communicating with EK aircraft due to uncontrolled flight deck napping - these guys work very hard for the money that they are paid.



More likely to be callsign confusion. OzATCos use a distinctly different form to the rest of the world.

[Mstr Caution]

However it does the cause little when an F/O in JQ under the MOU proposes on the internal site that all JQ crew should take a pay cut!!!


He/she's already taken a pay cut, why take another?

Has he/she not read QF CP CM's statement about the skilled pilots shortage.:8

[ernestkgann]

Don't worry Flashy I'm trying! Thanks for the suggestion though, enjoy your retirement in Silicon Oasis. Can understand your appreciation having now made the big time. How long you been in Dubai?

[ules]

sorry guys have to say that dubai is fantastic, i would drop everything to work for emirates and live there, im not a big airline pilot like most of yous, in the process of geting my cpl
only earlier this year june had a stopover, there and i actualy stayed in the emirates millenium building where all the pilots etc staff, are accomodated and live (stayed for free with some flighty girls i know. ) and the rooms they get are so nice,, everything is paid for , water ,gas, electricity , FREE ACOMODATION. also they pick you up everyshift in a shuttle bus so u dont even need a car to go to work or pay for a fare there., and dont forget all the shopping , and everything that is available to you in the uae, and in the future, dubai is going to be the most popular tourist destination in the world, absolutely stunning
thats my oppinion,
:p

[On Guard]

English, we need English please, you're not formerly known as Tintin are you?

[Launchpad McQuack]

you're not formally known as Tintin are you?


I wondered too...he certainly made a big impression in a very short space of time :ugh:

Sorry for the thread drift...

LP

[*Lancer*]

Everytime I get bored with work and life, I just catch the ferry to manly for the day.

Expansion in itself doesn't equal job satisfaction. Promotion (or the likelihood of) can of course, but there's a lot more to life than a Vegas apartment and airconditioned shopping centres.

Each to their own I guess!

[ratpoison]

and dont forget all the shopping , and everything that is available to you in the uae, and in the future, dubai is going to be the most popular tourist destination in the world, absolutely stunning
Oh Lord, please give me strength !!:ugh:

[OhForSure]

Everytime I get bored with work and life, I just catch the ferry to manly for the day.

Expansion in itself doesn't equal job satisfaction. Promotion (or the likelihood of) can of course, but there's a lot more to life than a Vegas apartment and airconditioned shopping centres.

Each to their own I guess!


Lancer: I'm with you. :ok:

[Launchpad McQuack]

and in the future, dubai is going to be the most popular tourist destination in the world


...that's debatable. There are also a lot of compromises living there.

If it's your scene, go for it. For a lot of us however - great place to visit but wouldn't want to live there.

there's a lot more to life than a Vegas apartment and airconditioned shopping centres

Amen brutha! :ok:

LP

[Wiley]

and in the future, dubai is going to be the most popular tourist destination in the worldI went out for (an incredibly - and I mean incredibly! expensive) meal at one of the 5 Star establishments on 'the strip' recently. (To explain how a Cheap Charlie pilot would do such a thing: the friends I went with had a 50% discount voucher - and even with that, the bill was still mind-boggling.)

Back to the point of this post: when reaching the hotel involved driving through a maze of detours, temporary roads and many thousands of witches' hats, I couldn't help but ask myself what the reactions must be of the many foeign tourists who pay top dollar for a holiday in Dubai when they find their idyllic holiday hotel/resort is smack bang in the middle of a giant construction site, with almost unbelieveable amounts of dust 24 hours a day and cranes and building sites marring their view, even on the seawards side thanks to The Palms development.

To the the lad with the keyboard with no Shift key who scored a freebie night with a 'flighty' in the Millineum Tower: I think you'll find that a brief visit to Dubai, especially with an accommodating (apparently in more than one way:) female companion) is a very different proposition to living there full time. You're in what we call the 'pre toy phase', which soon passes, as does the 'toy phase' that follows it..

[mmmbop]

Lancer,

Couldn't agree more. Anybody who thinks EK purchasing mega jets is going to decimate QF pilots ranks has their hand on it, and seriously underestimates the average intellect of a QF guy who is well aware of how good a wicket we have just living in OZ.

There will of course be those who depart (generally singlies, no kids who are chasing the quick command) and good luck to them. Each to their own.

I, however, eagerly await the departure of GD. (Oops - bad on time performance, it appears he has missed his time off blocks!) There has to be more than just one person quietly questioning the return on captial 1* will provide with the 787s..

Personally, I enjoy the outdoors too much so no way known will u ever get me to the desert!

M

[Aussie]

With the climate in the UAE, i though outdoors lifestyle was quite good!

[mmmbop]

Aussie,

I'm guessin' EK are hopin' enough pilots are dumb enough to believe that too!!!!

M

[NO LAND 3]

I think a lot of Aussie and Kiwi guys make the jump to EK partly for the emotional relief of being able to say "up yours!" to their old airlines who they perceive to be mismanaging them in some way.
It's not a good reason you know.
In my opinion its one of the better expat airline jobs. However your family will pay for it in ways you won't understand until you have been there a few years.
Not the case for everyone but it is the case for most. Your ex-colleagues will not tell you this to your face by the way. Its the way humans are.
It's not that bad but EK/Dubai consumes your life and I highly recommend you consider just what the hell your escape plan is for when you've finally had enough (and that will probably depend on your wife, though odds are even that she will be your ex-wife by that time!).

[HotDog]

:ok:With the climate in the UAE, i though outdoors lifestyle was quite good! °C Average monthly rain temperatures
R Average monthly rainfall in millimetres
Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec
°C 24 24 27 34 34 36 38 40 38 33 31 26
R 20 20 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 20
June, July, August,the hottest but very low humidity so it is bearable. However, everything is airconditioned in doors. In fact there is an artificial indoor ski field with European alpine temperatures and good (artificial) snow to ski on.:ok:

[NO LAND 3]

Heh, I am guessing you got those figures from an 'official' website. Did one of your 'mates' up here tell you it isn't humid in the summer? Think sauna. Literally.
Anyway no point preaching to the deaf.
Come on up and I'll be happy to have a beer with you down route.

[ules]

ah ok fair enough you guys have some strong points there,
although i am a young guy at 22. i dont have a wife and kids, i just want to fly and ejoy my life while im young, i wont be looking to settle down till im around 30 maybe. my mind would probably change as to work for emirates and live in dubai. contracts for ek is only for 2 years and renewable, i have found a form somewhere online , and ek pilot do get paid alot of money + the awards and benefits too hard to be true.
im not tryin to convince you guys to join, though if i had the expirience im just sayin i wouldnt turn it down to me it sounds fantastic , and yeah idid stay for a short stop in dubai and stayed at the milenium tower place, and yes it is dusty and cranes are everywhere, but theres construction all over the world, they do have witches hats everywhere at the moment, though they are building new roads, if ur drivin in sydney the roads there are so old they date back to the convict ages, ex, parramata road, :eek:
anyway there are plenty of places to goto in uae where theres no cranes old dubai, the beaches, doesnt mean u have to be stuck insidee all the time, in the vegas apartement, or nessesarily the new part of dubai, where most of the construction is.

"I went out for (an incredibly - and I mean incredibly! expensive) meal at one of the 5 Star establishments on 'the strip' recently. (To explain how a Cheap Charlie pilot would do such a thing: the friends I went with had a 50% discount voucher - and even with that, the bill was still mind-boggling.)"

why do you have to eat at a 5star restaurant for, eating food with a normal knife and fork, instead of gold ones, tastes the same for me,

theres a few places in dubai i had dinner / lunch near the burj incorporated in the hotel place next to it, it wasnt 5star, i dont thnk, but it was really clean , food was awsome main meals were cheaper than here in australia,


(apparently in more than one way:) female companion) is a very different proposition to living there full time. You're in what we call the 'pre toy phase', which soon passes, as does the 'toy phase' that follows it..

well heres the funny thing, i have had no relations or anything with this girl, she is a good friend and x g.f of my boss at where i use to work, and she kindly let me stay with her and her friends, i got to hang out with alot of the ek staff, they were all telling me how great it is , i was goin up and down the tower hanging out making new friends, the pilots who i got to speak to some younger pilot , they love it so much,

and yeah i could be in the pre toy phase, but ask yourselves why yous become pilots ? i supose with years i will eventualy get over it, but if u live in the one place too long ofcourse ur gonna get over it ,

dont forget the awards u get with ek, uae , is only a short stop from europe, and asia, alot of places to go for a little break, all the expense of ek,

oh il try and fix my shift key too haha :}
i thnk im just used to incorporating my txt msg'n language into everyday language (dam phones) or should i say damn phones hehe.

well sorry guys for being a young person at heart :} but honest to god i dont think dubai really is that bad to live as some of yous assume.

dont bag me out guys im just giving an honest oppinion of wat i think :ouch:

[On Guard]

It is Tintin, you are such a giveaway. Get back to school.

[OhForSure]

Ules: Fair enough. You sound like the type who really would enjoy EK. So good on ya.

Bit of thread re-drift here re Qantas fleet plans. I'm sure its quite likely that QF will place a follow up 787 order (-10?), but what about plans re the 737 fleet? The 19 or 20 -400s left are going to need to be replaced sooner or later! As I understand it the 5 new build -800s on order are now going to be used for expansion, not replacement, so what of the old -400s? They've been around since the mid 80's, and surely QF (or anyone for that matter) can't source NGs before 2010 by now right? What's the goss there?

P.S. - Naaahhhh Guard, I don't think he's arrogant enough...

[Going Boeing]

The Boeing twin fleet manager said (some time ago) that plans are to increase the B737 fleet to 65-70 aircraft and the B738 economics are superior to the B734 so he expected the fleet to end up all B738. The original B738 order, late 2001, was for 15 firm plus 60 options (at the significantly discounted price that the post 9/11 market offered). Thus the entire fleet could be standardised at discount prices. I believe that the options have slots on the production line.

At the same time, the Qantas group has been looking at standardising the group's single aisle fleet (up to 200 aircraft) and the media indicate that a decision is imminent. It is quite possible that the entire fleet of B737's could be traded in to Airbus and replaced by A320's. I personally don't think that this will happen - it may be better to wait and be a launch customer for an entirely new and significantly more efficient (and quieter) single aisle aircraft which both manufacturers have been proposing.

Apologies for the thread drift

[ScottyDoo]

More likely to be callsign confusion. OzATCos use a distinctly different form to the rest of the world.

I presume you mean: aus ATCOs actually USE callsigns... :rolleyes: unlike the rest of the world.

[ules]

It is Tintin, you are such a giveaway. Get back to school.

if you are reffering that to me , sorry mate nah im not tintin, and im a bit too old to be going back to school.

Ules: Fair enough. You sound like the type who really would enjoy EK. So good on ya.

i would enjoy working for any airline really, id love to get a job at qantas or with rex , dont have enough expirience yet though, but yeah with emirates u get paid alot of money, tax free money, :}