$80000 for a CPL! WTF?

[Defenestrator]

This figure seems to be the one being bandied around as the cost of a CPL. Now assuming this includes training to CPL, CIR, and ATPL subjects I can't for the life of me make the numbers add up to $80k. Actually you could toss an instructor rating on top of that lot and still have a heap of change.

Is it that the cost of living is included in this figure? When I trained, and it was some time ago but not that long ago, most of us were working AND training full time. The jobs were mostly night and weekend jobs but it kept a roof over our heads and food on the table. It was tough at times but that made for excellent preparation for GA.

$80000........adds up to that if you do all your flying after GFPT in a twin and we all know that's not the case. Anyone care to throw some numbers around? Just out of morbid interest really.

D :ok:

[Bendo]

Interesting that on the side of your post a little google ad popped up spruiking flight training for a "guaranteed" $48,733.16 which seems as strange a figure as the $80,000 you quote. Where does the $0.16 come into it?

According to a LAME chum of mine who is close to a major BK sausage factory, there are two scales: "us" and "them". A BBQ sausage pays $40-50k but if you are a curried sausage, you pay the premium! :hmm:

[Chadzat]

Some of the (rough) figures when I completed my training in 06 which I now owe: :{

PPL: $14K
CPL: $24K
NVFR: $3K
MECIR+Initial twin: $14K
Aviation Uni Degree HECS: $18K
Misc exams + books: $4K

=pretty close to $80K, take out uni though and it becomes more like 60.

[Defenestrator]

Fair enough Chadzat. Just for reference...

PPL, CPL with Inital Twin and NVFR $21800
MECIR $4800 (did get a bit of mates rates though)
ATPL $3100


Times have certainly changed in a decade.

Just out of interest did you shop around and find that the cost was pretty much the same? The $80000 seems to be the figure that's getting tossed around on the various REX cadet scheme threads.

D:ok:

[Chadzat]

You could definitely do it cheaper, but you would be a sausage out of the press. I changed schools a few times along the way, I was after quality and a/c type not necessarily cheapest price.

PPL and CPL was done over a period of 20 months in with full time uni, so if that was condensed into 12 months the price may come down, but even so that figure was including flight tests and 170hrs at the end of it all. MECIR was definitely NOT cheapest, if your lucky 10K may see you through on a duchess or seminole.

It is BLATANTLY obvious that Rex see their pilot retention problem as a way to MAKE money- not spend it, they would be making a tidy sum on each of their cadets if that is the final figure- unless it includes a SF340 endo.

[Peter Fanelli]

Times have certainly changed in a decade.


Why I can remember being able to hire a Grumman trainer for $26.00/hr
and the shiny brand new Cougar for $69.00/hr.

Those were the days.

[Desert Duck]

At the time I thought I was hard done by in a near new C172 @ $18 / hr.
It was a long time ago

Perhaps the Govt could reintroduce the Commonwealth Flying Scolarship - I was lucky enough to win one - from memory paid $10 /hour of the $18 for 130hours flying.

Might help solve the pilot shortage

[MidgetBoy]

I don't know how it could possibly cost $80k.. I heard that the CPL in Australia takes 250 hours. But at the moment I'm down $25k, a couple hours short of my CPL in Canada which requires 200 hours. So if I were to finish it in 250 hours, some more instrument work on SE so that ME would be easier. Then the switch over to ME: ~20 ME including ME IFR would be another $6000.
So at most it would cost me $45k CND. (A lot less if I were to move to USA and finish it since our dollar is so high)

[VH-BCY]

Guys/Gals, there is a cheaper way of getting all your licenses. Buy your own planes :ok: I did my initial training at an ultralight school then bought a single seat ultralight for $2000, then bought a rag and tube 2 seater for $3000. Done over 200 hours in ultralights before moving into GA. By the time I had 50 hours in my GA log book, I had completed my PPL, CSU/retract, tail wheel and initial twin endorsements. Then bought a C210, travelled the best country in the world for VFR flying then did all the CPL exams by correspondence. I estimate by the time I did my CPL, total cost was about $30,000 (not including purchase price of aircraft because aircraft generally don't depreciate that much) but including all fuel, landing fees, insurance, maintenance, books, exams and instuctors. The only regret I have is not buying my '58 model 172 earlier to do all my GA training in. You can pick up an older 172 for under $40,000, do over 200 hours in it and still get the same price for it if you managed to look after it well. Owning and maintaining aircraft also gives you a better understanding on how best to fly and look after them and will also look good on your resume. If anyone wants some more advice on how to gain a CPL for lot less than through the flying schools, dont hesitate to pm me :D

[AerocatS2A]

I heard that the CPL in Australia takes 250 hours.

It's 200 hours not 250.

My PPL/CPL cost $25000 NZD about 13 years ago, and the MECIR cost $11000 AUD about 4 years ago. I've since spent around $3000 AUD on ATPL subjects.

[astroboy55]

:eek:

Im not sure how these numbers can be justified.......I did my CPL with an initial multi and a NVFR for $26k in 02/03. And that was at a school in YSBK. Surely it cant have increased that much over a few years. Feel sorry for anyone learning these days...although prospects are looking a little better i guess....

[MACH082]

My flying was

CPL - 40K
Grade 3 10.5K
CIR-ME 10.6K
NVFR - 3K
Books/exams casa bull 5K

Getting up there! plus endos along the way PA31, PN68, BE58, C310, About 5k there also.....

Im pretty close to 80K, throw in a dash8 or a 738/A320 and its a crippling game indeed!

[pilotdude09]

This may sound petty but fark it!

Lets all write to Kevin Rudd: [email protected]
(Since hes gunna get in)

Ive written telling him how the government should introduce a loan repayable through the ATO open to NZ citizens who have lived in aussie for x number of years and Aussie citizens. Make the person work in Australia untill the loan has been fully repayed similar to the HECS system.

Think this would work, never expect a reply but hey worth a try will all these other promises comming out, why not one to help people do what they have dreamt of?

[morno]

Tell 'im he's dreamin'.

Why don't you become an Australian citizen, or go back to New Zealand?? Why should we start subsidising New Zealand citizens?

morno

[pilotdude09]

No way im going back lived here for 6 years!

Theres not much that could ever make me go back to NZ to live, no opportunitys, **** government the list goes on.

I am becoming a citizen, but theres so much farking crap you have to go through to do it. :ugh:

[MACH082]

You kiwis get enough of a helping hand from enzed for your CPL. All the kiwis i know have all the fruit payed by His majesty Helen. Come here steal the aussie jobs, dont pay a cent back to enzed if you never go back, free CPL thank ya mother for the sheep yibbidi yibbida....

Dont get me wrong a few of my good mates in flying are sheep shaggers, but there is no way im paying my meager taxes for the kiwis to shaft me out of another job in Oz.:ok:

[Hugh Jarse]

Things that makeup can hide:

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i6/HugeArse/ThingsMakeupcanHide5.jpg

Or This:
http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i6/HugeArse/ThingsMakeupcanHide4.jpg
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Or THIS:
http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i6/HugeArse/ThingsMakeupcanHide6.jpg
:8

[pilotdude09]

:D:D:)

hahahaha thats a classic Hugh Jarse!

Mach082, agree with you that its wrong they get a free ride. But ive never payed a cent of NZ tax but i have payed alot of tax to Australia.

[morno]

Pilotdude, don't get me wrong, I don't mind Kiwi's, but be f*cked if I'm going to support that stupid idea. Us Australians can barely even get money from the government for our flying, and you want to talk a politician into providing Kiwi's with money!! You've got to be kidding.

As it is, you can only get a loan from the government if you're in a stupid cadetship for an airline. What about the rest of the aviation industry?? Too bad GA is a vital part of the economy, because they'll know about it when it collapses due lack of pilots due to lack of government support.

When you're an Australian citizen, then come back and talk about it.

morno

[multime]

Hugh
Loved it. Although i do think the horse has to be turned around to see the real Helen Clark.
As for Morno.Get a life. Been here for 11 years paying tax,extortionate casa fees, etc,etc like everyone else.
If you don,t like it, i think Macca,s is always hiring?.

Cheers M:ok:

[morno]

Thanks for your tip multime, I'll be sure to throw your application into Macca's next week. I don't think I'll be needing a burger flippers job anytime soon, my flying job pays quite well thanks.

morno

[TLAW]

Morno has a point. The Australian government owes its first loyalty to Australian citizens. The New Zealand government can look after its own, unless they agree to reciprocate and introduce a similar scheme for Australian citizens living in NZ.

[kiwi chick]

Oh, and...

Not all Kiwi's got their licence via the Government. :ok:

[pilotdude09]

introduce a similar scheme for Australian citizens living in NZ

Most aussies that live in NZ are entitled to everything, Student Loans through the government, can join customs (something we cant do in Aus) pensions, dole etc all without citizenship all of those we need citizenship which i guess if fair enough i guess.

Anyway how does the NZ government pilot scheme work? Just like a student loan and repayable to the government?

[UrlocalAZn]

Not a government pilot scheme as such. Just a normal student loan available to students training full time on certain courses at certain institutions.

[TLAW]

Most aussies that live in NZ are entitled to everything, Student Loans through the government, can join customs (something we cant do in Aus) pensions, dole

I don't know about Customs and the student loan thing, but all of the rest, Medicare, social security, etc, is because Australia and New Zealand have reciprocal agreements. Our governments agree to give each others citizens equal entitlements - but only if the rights and entitlements are reciprocated.

[FRQ Charlie Bravo]

Hey Hugh,

Who's the chick in the white blouse to the left of Helen Clark?