All Zs Boeing 737-200 Grounded

[CALCULATOR]

Hot off the press a Emergency Airworthiness Directive has just been issued today by SA CAA- GROUNDING ALL(zs) BOEING 737-200 series aircraft fitted with Pratt and Whittney JT8D series engines.

"Owners and operators of the above mentioned aircraft types issued with a certificate of airworthiness in terms of part 21.04.4 and operating on a operating certificate issued in terms of part 121 of the RSA CAA regs of 1997, as amended are hereby advised that the GROUNDING ORDER ISSUED, which prohibits the operation of these aircraft in the RSA until an acceptable level of safety can be demonstrated , shall remain in force subject to compliance with conditions as laid down in the following paragraphs"

The Ad becomes effective on receipt and/ or 09 November 2007 ,whichever occurs earliest.:D

SEE MORE DETAIL ON THE NATIONWIDE LOOSES DONKEY POST FROM NUGPOT.

[sbh684b]

The DCs's have also been afected and also been grounded

[sky waiter]

WHY?

The bolts on CE did what they were supposed to- has this ever happened before, what about the airlines, specifically CE does not have the aircraft to cover the ones that are grounded where do they get the aeries from to honour the tickets etc?

And how long will it take the CAA to do the inspections??? :*:*

[four engine jock]

What a bunch of JOKERS!!!
The SACAA issue a Emergency AD at 1530 today. Then they dont answer there phone.
All this to impress who? The FAA, ICAO. Dont think the way they are doing it will impress anyone. This is a way to show the BIGG BOYS that our CAA does something. Its just that they always screw things up.
The investigation into the Nationwide Incident could not have been finished so fast.
This will just show the rest of the world just how BAD our CAA is.

[nugpot]

has this ever happened before


06 Nov 2007 Nationwide B737-200 Cape Town, South Africa
It was reported that the right engine of a B737-200 aircraft fell off during the take-off. The Nationwide flight was en-route to Johannesburg. The aircraft made a safe airborne return to Cape Town and there have been no reported injuries.

07 Jan 2002 Delta B737-200 Dallas Fort Worth, Texas USA



Right engine separated from the aircraft while climbing through 200 feet after take-off. Following the engine separation the aircraft continued to climb and was vectored by ATC for an uneventful single engine approach and landing at the departure airport. The engine separation was a result of the failure of the aft cone bolt and the engine secondary support assembly. The aft cone bolt failed as a result of a pre-existing fatigue crack, while the engine secondary support assembly failed as a result of the dynamic loads that exceeded the designed capacity of the mounting bolts. The two forward bolts failed in overload as the engine swung forward during the separation sequence. Metallurgical tests revealed that the fatigue of the aft cone bolt was a result of the lubricant inadvertently introduced into the conical surface of the cone bolt.

20 Jan 1989 Piedmont B737-200 Chicago, Illinois, USA



Right engine separated from the aircraft on rotation. Take-off was continued and the aircraft made a safe return to the departure airport. After landing the aircraft was inspected and it was revealed that the aft cone (engine mounting) bolt had failed from fatigue, causing the two forward cone bolts to fail due ductile overstress. Raised mechanical deformation was found on the conical surface of the aft bolt. The deformity was indicative of damage produced prior to, or during assembly of the cone bolt in the isolation mount. A matching cavity was noted on the isolation mount. There was evidence that the mechanical irregularity resulted in a non-uniform fit which allowed the torqued fitting to loosen.

05 Dec 1987 US Air B737-200 Deptford, New Jersey, USA



After take-off while climbing through 4000 feet, the aircraft yawed and rolled to the right, simultaneously a continuous airframe buffet began. Soon after the right engine separated from the aircraft and the buffet stopped. A passenger saw the aft end of the engine droop about 30 degrees before the engine separated. The aircraft landed safely. An examination revealed the aft mount cone bolt had failed from fatigue. Subsequently the forward mount cone bolts and secondary support cable failed from overload.


03 Jan 1986 Southwest B737-200 Dallas, Texas, USA



No.2 engine experienced an aft engine mount cone bolt failure with the subsequent failure of the secondary support link. The failure of both aft engine support assemblies during the take-off allowed the aft section of the engine to droop down. As a result the No.2 thrust reverser actuator assembly contacted the runway surface on rotation. The aircraft subsequently returned to the departure airport without further incident. Metallurgical examination of the cone bolt revealed that it had failed as a result of fatigue. Most probably due to incorrect installation of the bolt, specifically that it was under torqued on installation.

[nugpot]

I don't know how common x-ray equipment is in the RSA, because the AD calls for:

I. Check the complete engine mount and support brackets using an xray method of inspection.

[406pilot]

hi, guys

cant help noticing tht most of the separations have to do with the right engine or as appropriately called no:2 engine, is this a co-incidence or is the problem only on the right hand side engine mounts/cones?

keep it up there fellows,

no more 406pilot

[gofor]

Seem to remember a Kalitta's 747-200 no 2 eng fell off in the states two or three years ago. Don't remember if the rest of the fleet was grounded then

[Q4NVS]

How many of these 737-200 with JT8D's do Comair still operate?

Guess the guys at 1Time and Mango are gonna be very busy for a few days (or weeks...)

[TwinJock]

Knee jerk reaction by a useless state entity - CAA!! Hooray, somebody is awake in the sleeping giant!

What you should however try and do is to get some information from these idiots regarding license renewals when flying outside SA. What is the official standpoint from SACAA regarding these renewals? Nothing, not a chirp, no reply - that is the way that SACAA ensures that problems go away - ignore it.

The flying public must be shown by grounding all B732's, that the SACAA has some muscle and that it is not just a job creator for PDI's (Previous Disadvantaged Individuals).

[ALPHA FLOOR]

Well done SACAA!

At last some action, be it the right action or not, its nice that you are doing something!

Good time to be in the NTD business....

Someone stated in a post here "The bolts on CE did what they were supposed to" but the pictures posted on another forum clealy show the bolt intact and the mounting broken!

Lets see - Good job to all the crew involved - Vern screw you!

AFL

[sky waiter]

Thanx for the reply nugs what i meant to say was in SA, i know it has happened before.

Who is now going to honour the tickets of the stranded PAX- the lost revnue due to the aircrafts not having replacements etc etc.

NOT a clever move, surely this type of directive should have come from boeing if there was a problem?

[Oom Kaspaas]

Nationwide never missed a beat yesterday. Heard them on the radio after 8pm last night.

Before someone passes out with rage. I DO hope Nationwide continues in business, otherwise there are people without employment again.

[grgplanes]

Can anyone give some indication how many aircraft of which airlines is affected? Nationwide, Comair, Kulula, 1Time, InterAir, Interlink, SAACargo, other? How long would this last.
It seems like Nationwide has some delays today.

[777Contrail]

Nationwide probably received an extention to do the inspections.......:}

Must first get x-ray equipment, and so on and so forth:rolleyes:

[Petrovsky]

Presumably the emergency AD allows the aircraft to return to flight status after the inspection has been completed satisfactorily. Just think of the legal repercussions if the CAA did not ground the fleet pending the inspection, and a further (same) problem occurred again....

[dudleydick]

Now ACSA has got into the act!!!! A news item from News24 today:

Johannesburg - Airports Company SA (Acsa) has grounded Boeing 737 200's throughout South African airports to conduct safety checks, SABC news reported on Saturday.
This action comes after a Nationwide Boeing 737 carrying 106 passengers had to make an emergency landing at Cape Town International on Wednesday after an engine fell off during take-off.
Acsa airport operations director Bongani Maseko (http://www.whoswhosa.co.za/Pages/profilefull.aspx?IndID=5270) told SABC news that the company had received instructions to ground the planes from the Civil Aviation Authority.
"All boeings must go for a check for the mounting of the engines. [The Civil Aviation Authority] have asked that by the end of business today we start helping them to ensure that all of the Nationwide aircrafts adhere to that. "The directive also says all the other airlines must have implemented the check for the mounting of the engines by Monday."

[gofor]

Looks like it was no1 eng on Kalitta - quite a bit of damage that time!
http://www.cargolaw.com/images/disaster2005.tri-motor2.GIF

[DreamMachine]

Oom Kaspaas, don't forget that Nationwide has 727's and 737-500's as well !!!
Those crews would have been called out , and told to fly until they drop !!

[PAXboy]

'ACSA in on the act' certainly did!!! I like the way they make it sound as if they are doing lots and lots to help, rather than following instructions from a higher authority. Somebody just made their job a bit safer. This is no personal criticism. After all, the way the Brits taught you how to wriggle out of things. :{

[flyboy7]

Comair has 6 in service - ZS-NNG/NNH/OKD/OKE/OLA/OLB. 1980 to 1984 models.
NTW - approx 12
AVSTAR - approx 4
SAA cargo - 2
Interlink
Interair

Average age is about 25 years - time to retire.

[B747ATP]

Insiders in the industry have been waiting for an incident like this to happen especially with the rapidly ageing B732 fleet for a long time now. I know that another southern african airline has had its fair share of problems from aircraft that are leased from SAFAIR. SW has suffered alot of financial loses cause they are IATA regulated, they have had to fork out alot of money to cover costs incurred because of technicals to stranded passengers!Just remember if the airline is not IATA regulated they owe the PAX nothing. That's why when you purchase something always read the fine print. Unfortunetly we work in an environment of tomb stone technology, somebody has to die for something to be changed of which most of the time the big boys knew about it but did cost analysis and decided to expensive.Most of the time when passengers die the airlines (IATA regulated) have to pay a hefty amount for every single one and those expenses out weigh the cost of changing a problem!

[TwinJock]

The B737 - 300's operated by Comair might be younger in years than the -200 they operate, but they have a lot more hours on them - if memory serves me correctly 60 000+

I remember the good old days when we had blonds with big ears and nice teeth on the jump seat. When they saw the cockpit, their first question usually referred to the age of the aircraft. We then gallantly pointed out to them, after turning around in the seat to face them in the eyes, that age does not matter, it is the hours and the cycles that do!

Does this explanation still hold sme water?:ok:

The -300/500 is a safer aircraft than the -200? No ways!!

[Jamex]

Interesting reading the comments about management deciding certain mods are just to expensive and then choosing to ignore them. Another mod for the B732 is the lap-joint mod. Kit alone for this mod is around USD1,800,000 and I know Safair have not had it done (this mod) on their fleet of B732's. So that would mean SAA's -200F's and Interlinks -200's bought from Safair have not had this mod done either. If Safair have not bothered, then it is a certainty that NW have not bothered either. Do we need another Aloha Airlines "instant sunroof conversion" occurring before our wonderful CAA crank up another round of groundings? Then again, I wonder if 1Time have done the tail-cone mods on their DC9's yet? I dont know but I do suggest that before some more crew's experience what the NW crew experienced in CT (which incidentally was a brilliant job by a very competent crew, losing engine and pylon with shut-off valves and then losing hydraulic fluid and fuel while returning to the airport in IMC, great job, just a pity the company does not recognise your professionalism and pay you guys your true worth!) maybe we should be checking up on outstanding mods and the urgency with which they need to be done before "keeping the operation going?":}

[arf1410]

Jamex,

You need to double check your alledged "facts" before posting -

"Another mod for the B732 is the lap-joint mod. Kit alone for this mod is around USD1,800,000 and I know Safair have not had it done (this mod) on their fleet of B732's."

You are off by a factor of 10 (or more) to the high side on the mod. Including labor, it should cost USD300,000 to 400,000, and it is not required on the vast majority of the south african fleet for many years - until they reach 50,000 flight cycles.

[ThreeHolerHauler]

Correct me if I'm wrong but it appears to me that some PPRUNers are overreacting just a tad.
In the last 25 years, how many people have died in fatal 732 crashes in SA..... Yep I believe ZERO is the figure!

Yes the airframes are getting on a bit. But as anyone with an incling of aviation knowledge knows, the age of an aircraft in not measured by years in service, but by cycles and hours. Some aircraft have a virtually limitless airframe life provided the correct servicing schedule is followed!

I believe in pro-active safety management! And I believe that lessons will be learned from this incident as well. Most major advances in aviation safety were afterall made as a result of incidents. Especially one as severe as this one. So lets all just chill and stop wanting to ground everything that was not built in the last ten years (read Airbus), and rather keep what we have safe. If some people on this forum have their way, everything with wings will be grounded! Boy, oh boy, how safe will we be then!!!

[Oom Kaspaas]

Other than SAA. Comair are the only ones who ain't shy to spend money on maintenance.
There is always whining about leveling the playing field. If the other airlines were spending any where near as much as SAA spends on maintenance, there would be a lot fewer flying jobs around SAA.

[Jamex]

Arf1410

with regards to your post

You are off by a factor of 10 (or more) to the high side on the mod. Including labor, it should cost USD300,000 to 400,000, and it is not required on the vast majority of the south african fleet for many years - until they reach 50,000 flight cycles.

Thanks for the advice regarding price. This may be what you pay in Seattle but my price reference is what is quoted in SA. Obviously the ring being ripped locally again.

[Goldfish Jack]

I think we are all missing the point here

At least the CAA has finally been seen to do something - some say over-reaction, but at least they are trying to do something and for that they should be given credit.

We can aruge for months if it is the right thing or not, but something is better than nothing.

Lets give them a bit of credit for that and support them - I know it is a first but let me tell you I was in the tower when it happened and witnessed the whole thing - it looked ugly let me tell you - that crew did an awesome job.

NOW is the time to sit down, go through it rationally and without emotion and come up with the exact cause of the incident and grow and learn from it.

[arf1410]

"Thanks for the advice regarding price. This may be what you pay in Seattle but my price reference is what is quoted in SA. Obviously the ring being ripped locally again"
I am confident that the price I provided was correct, even in SA. Where the $2 million USD (to even $3+) may be coming from is that 737s delivered before ~1973 will require a mod of that price prior to 07 Dec 2007 (regardless of flight cycles or hours). I do not believe a single one of those first 291 airplanes anywhere in the world has had that mod done, or ever will, so if the CAAs are doing those jobs, those airplanes will ALL be out of service on 08 Dec. Fortunately, I do not think there is a single flying airplane of that vintage currently registered in South Africa. If someone knows otherwise, please provide details.