A320 line training [Archive]

SinBin

19th Dec 2007, 15:19

This is a nutty world! What other PROFESSION would send people to an X factor style wannabe mentality to do this. It's like the old addage 'I'd do anything to be famous me!!'.

Send some CVs and nag some airlines for a JOB. That's why we have PROFESSIONAL licences to be PROFESSIONAL pilots. In other words being PAID to work (and that is what a JOB flying an airbus is when you're on a 4 sector day).

You'd be hard pressed to be taken seriously at interview if you've paid to fly the A320 with 500 hours on type that you've paid for, TR is one thing pal................:ugh::suspect:

FLYING IS A DREAM FOR MANY PEOPLE, WAS FOR ME, AND NOW I'M DOING IT FULL TIME ON THE A320 AND BEING PAID QUITE NICELY THANKYOU, BUT IF I WAS PAYING FOR IT NOW I'D HAVE SHOT MYSELF MONTHS AGO, YOU NUTTER!!

ANYWAY DRUNKEN RANT OVER WITH!!

dartagnan

19th Dec 2007, 15:34

right, you have to be nuts to pay an airline and fly 4 legs a day without getting out of the cockpit for over 10 hours. it is a job, not an hobby.

the problem is airlines are asking these 500hours for the 320, and I don't see where to do that.
easyjet asks for 50 hours.
I mean it 's the airlines who ask us to pay for line training. They run the zoo, we are the monkeys!

now we have to pay for all licenses, included MCC, type rating and first year work.how much is that? over 200'000 euro?maybe more?

then they cry cuz they need captains!!!!

and it seems that pilots paying for hourbuilding on the 320 in India or in Turkey , are waiting months due to a waiting list, and when they come back to europe, they have problems to make recognize their line training.
I don't know if it is true, but if it is, it is simply scandalous!

all this pain just prove that there are limited jobs,very limited jobs, and you have to be really really lucky to fly for a company nowadays...

sami1

19th Dec 2007, 16:20

It s quite difficult to find a job as a low time pilot if u don't have hours on type. Line training seems to be the only choice :ugh:
years ago, pilots were complaining about wannabes who are paying for their type rating . Now, most of the pilots buy a TR to secure a job.
Same with the line training , soon it s going to be a must , exactly like getting a TR !! :(

portsharbourflyer

20th Dec 2007, 10:10

Mercenary Pilot

20th Dec 2007, 10:52

Same with the line training , soon it s going to be a must Well lets all work for free then. :rolleyes:

Some of the bollox i read on here.....:ugh:

SinBin

20th Dec 2007, 12:56

'flying an airbus', cos it ain't flying let's face it, is pretty dull at the best of times, I went to the middle east 3 days ago and returned yesterday and I flew for exactly 10 seconds in the 12 hours we were airborne over 2 sectors! The rest was sipping coffee, programming a computer and twiddling knobs, ending in an autoland on my sector at LHR!! Would I pay £40K to do it, hell no!!

Superpilot

20th Dec 2007, 13:01

SinBin, thanks for just describing everything I'm looking forward too!!! :cool:

Callsign Kilo

20th Dec 2007, 13:09

Sorry if I sound like a complete tosser here, but SinBin do I not recall you once contemplated the Sigmar/MYT A320 TR with 150 hrs line training before you started with BMI?

I apologise if I am wrong, but I think I recall it was you who posted it a while back?

SinBin

20th Dec 2007, 18:14

BYALPHAINDIA

20th Dec 2007, 22:42

I applied for it, yes, I don't deny it, had no real plans to start it, was a crazy thing to do, useful for interview experience and had some sort of chance of a job after it. Worried the hell out of me, so turned it down.

Totally different to going to an airline and paying them to fly an aeroplane for hours building! It is killing recruitment and any kind of sponsorship or help from airlines and the more people do it the worse it will get. Moral of the story it's a crazy thing to do to pay to work so DON'T DO IT.

I'm not trying to spoil people's illusions, I love what I do, don't get me wrong, but after sitting on a flight deck for 5 hours flying in airspace where air traffic is not particularly busy, with your feet getting more and more cold, it does get a little monotinous (if that is how it's spelt). It is just a job at the end of the day, and to pay to do that is complete and utter madness! + it's ruining the Ts&Cs for airline pilots a la Mr O'Leary!!

Oh dear Sin Bin, I can't believe what you are saying in the above text:=

'I applied for it but had no real plans to start it':ugh:

Useful for interview experience:rolleyes:

Had 'some' sort of a job offer:(

It's a crazy thing to do to pay to work:rolleyes:

I love what I do, But tends to get bored after 5 or so hours:ugh:

It's a job at the end of the day:zzz:

After reading what you have said, I think you are in the wrong profession, And you do not seem to appreciate some who spend years acquiring an ATPL with their own money.

Most would bend over backwards to be in your seat.:D

And you say you get bored??:zzz:

are we not all born with a 'Golden Spoon' in our mouths??:hmm:

adverse-bump

20th Dec 2007, 23:14

be gentle with sin bin.
i also used that mytravel thing for practice at a sim ride!
and having done 10 months of single pilot IFR (and 6 months of FI work) i can confirm that flying is very very boring - i still love it, but its boring! but i suspect my feet are normally colder in a 35yr old aztec!
i start flying the dash 8 next yr and look forward to a new challange, but i know after 12 months i will be bored of it and looking for a new challange!
to some up, dont expect to get straight on to a jet, whats the point, you'll be flying it for the next 40 yrs!!! so why not have some fun first, and save alot of money, and be a better pilot at the end of it!
AND FOR **** SAKE! DONT PAY TO FLY! YOU ARE ******* UP MY PLAN'S FOR A NEW CAR! DONT BE A DICK!
:ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

and i think ull find people get born with a silver spoon in there mouth! if ur parents had paid for u to go to private school ud know this! :}:}:}

BYALPHAINDIA

20th Dec 2007, 23:21

Boy done well = at 22:D

adverse-bump

20th Dec 2007, 23:23

haha!

im 23 next month!

cash is fine!

SinBin

20th Dec 2007, 23:52

There is no silver spoon in my mouth I can tell you, do you think someone paid for my training for an ATPL? Truth be told is yes it was me! Modular, part time training whilst in a 9-5 for 7 + f**king yearsand then bugging an airline till I was blue in the face, so NO I HAVE NOT HAD IT EASY!!

Flying a jet is awesome for about 4 weeks, the novelty wears off as with everthing once you've done it a hunded times. At 35,000 feet flying in a straight line hours on end with computers doing everything for you and a view of clouds and not much else is not that exciting. It does get interesting when something is flying the other way 1000 ft below you closing at 900kts but they're on TCAS for about a minute and probably this happens 10 times in a flight if you're lucky.

This is the reality of flying an airliner! I am most certainly in the right profession thanks, wouldn't want to do anything else, but I could not pay to do this. Which was my point. I am living the dream and it has its moments but please don't pay to do this and f*** everyone else's careers in the process.

Sorry to spoil any illusions!! And sorry for the foul language but........

BYALPHAINDIA

21st Dec 2007, 00:03

Point taken, But wouldn't you have been more suited to Fast jets or the Herc??

SinBin

21st Dec 2007, 00:12

Have you seen my age? + I don't like deserts much!!

Adverse-bump, I tell you you're feet get cold in an Airbus. I switched the foot warmers on but they do bugger all! Apparently someone put a thermometer down there once and it was in single figures:ouch:

tom775257

21st Dec 2007, 02:10

Sinbin - on a tangent, but take your shoes off and put your feet on the metal foot warmer plates = works much better! Oohh and two pairs of socks...

One time we lost all trim air (hot air valve fault). My feet were both completely numb by the we landed.. I had trouble walking off the aircraft (lost cockpit zone reg).

dartagnan

21st Dec 2007, 12:13

If some of you love so much flying at a point to work to pay.Try to get a taste of what the pilot life is:
book a flight for 1 week?, 4 legs a day...,
maybe pilots will tell you to go in their cockpit for a chat...
I can bet , after 2 legs, you want go home!!!

Keep your cash!

adverse-bump

21st Dec 2007, 12:44

So to some up:

Airplanes are:
:sad: Cold
:hmm: Boring for the most part
:mad:And for goodness sake, please stop paying to fly them, if your not good enough to get a job via the normal means like the rest of us then you shouldnt be flying!

And it really does :mad: up this industry for the rest of us, DONT PAY TO FLY!
:ugh:

C130Dreamer

21st Dec 2007, 13:40

Cold feet in an Airbus! Suck it up princes, you want to try flying a 70's Navajo around Northern Canada, then you'll know what "cold feet" are. :rolleyes:

YELLOWKNIFE/NT
METAR CYZF 211200Z 00000KT 15SM SKC M34/M42 A3011 RMK SLP232=
METAR CYZF 211300Z 00000KT 15SM MIFG FEW120 M36/M42 A3011 RMK AC1
SLP232=
METAR CYZF 211400Z 00000KT 15SM FEW120 M35/M41 A3012 RMK AC1 SLP236=
TAF AMD CYZF 211338Z 211312 VRB03KT P6SM SKC PROB30 1319 1SM BR
RMK NXT FCST BY 18Z=

And it's not even winter yet!!!!!!

FlyingSpanner

21st Dec 2007, 20:54

All this nausea relation to foot temperature of the A320 is related to the thread HOW??????

Spanner :confused:

dartagnan

25th Dec 2007, 12:35

I come back to the subject...

Dear Pilots,
you must really stop this scam, i have at least 8 people who wrote me and told me it is not working well on their side.
once they have paid, over 20'000 dollars, they fly for a week or 2 days only, then they are on standby for any reason, and wait and wait, and wait...

unbelivable, ...then during this time, they call another pilots who have paid, and then, the company, play the exact same game with them,....nice way to fill their pockets,...

so good luck with your attorney, trying to get your money back.
oh, and by the way, don't tell me a company who ask money from their pilots is a good company, these companies have no cash and suck,they can file bankrupt at any time, and guess where your money will go...somewhere else than your pocket...:(

I got the idea to pay one of these companies in the past , but view the horror stories I have heared, I suggest you to stay away from these scamers, this includes strom aviation, eaglejet,atlasjet,indigo,...and keep ur cash
:yuk:

I have more real horror stories, I keep them for later.I don't want to destroy your holydays...

CAT3C AUTOLAND

26th Dec 2007, 20:02

Oh my god,

Flying a jet is awesome for about 4 weeks, the novelty wears off

I have to disagree SinBin, its bloody awesome, I am 8 months into it and its bloody great! You should be reading Part C :}.

SinBin

26th Dec 2007, 22:47

I agree it is awesome at times, just done some of the longer routes that's all! Not so awesome but a little dull to be honest, especially the 321 if you catch my drift. ie no handflying except take off!! Still waiting on my 321 landing check ride you see. But if you read my posts again, it does have its moments, and i'd rather do nothing else. What I was trying to get across was that I wouldn't pay to do it.

CAT3C AUTOLAND

27th Dec 2007, 12:07

SinBin, when are you booked in for your A321 check? I did mine 3 weeks ago, really enjoyed flying that aircraft, could not believe how quiet it is.

I too have done some of the longer trips, and have found some of these new destinations quite incrediable, and has given me an oppotunity to see parts of the world I have never seen before.

Havent come across you int he crew yet, our paths must have crossed?

SinBin

27th Dec 2007, 22:48

Paths should cross, may already have done so, not biggest company in the world, I don't mean to be down on stuff just got a lot on at the mo at home!!

Doug E Style

28th Dec 2007, 07:56

"I flew for exactly 10 seconds in the 12 hours we were airborne"

SinBin, nobody is forcing you to engage the autopilot after just ten seconds.

SinBin

28th Dec 2007, 22:09

In crap weather it does I'm afraid!!

Anyway this has turned into a serious thread creap!! So I'm bowing out of this one!

CAT3C AUTOLAND

30th Dec 2007, 20:44

Come on SinBin, it was CAVOK ;).

SinBin

1st Jan 2008, 09:37

Baku? No mate it was wet and very windy!

wobble2plank

1st Jan 2008, 10:03

Oddly enough, in the company I work for, unless the weather requires an autoland (generally very rare) it's up to me when I engage the AP both on takeoff and landing.

If I want I can fly the whole sector with the AP off, it's my choice. Normally I will ditch the automatics at the top of drop and hand fly the whole approach. Keeps the interest up. I still find it fun and enjoyable and thats after 21 years of flying all different types of aircraft both civil and military.

If you're so bored after a few weeks then change job because there is nothing worse than a moaner in the cockpit.

p.s. The 321 is, without doubt, the nicest of the A320 family to fly and the best in a x-wind. Just don't scrape the tail ;)

SinBin

1st Jan 2008, 16:38

God! Right I'm not bored, I do enjoy what I do, I was just saying I wouldn't pay to do it. It is killing the Ts & Cs when people do pay to work and pay for line training. Which was where the thread began. I have landed the 321 and I agree it is a lovely aircraft to fly, it's just the company I work for did not allow FOs to land the 321s unless with a TC, but that has now changed and I'm still waiting for a TC to sign me off on the landings!

I'm not a moaner, far from it if you knew me! Ho hum

Thread creep alert!!:p

wobble2plank

2nd Jan 2008, 09:31

Fair enough, to get the thread back on track, a bit, I personally don't have a problem with people who pay to get, what is after all, their 'dream job'.
The problem is that the training costs are astronomical, few of the big airlines are running a cadet scheme and the Loco's (some of them) are taking advantage. It is not the fault of the trainee per se that is causing the problems it is the financial wheels behind the grey suits that run the airlines budgets.
Who can blame someone for wanting to progress their career. We can blame the accountants/employers who want to bleed every possible penny out of the passenger and the employee.

Good luck to anyone who treads this path, I was lucky enough to avoid it, until the mentality behind many of these loco outfits and training outfits changes I don't think we will see an end to self paid type ratings. I can only hope it does come though.

W2P

dartagnan

2nd Jan 2008, 21:04

-by chance, only 3-4 airlines play this little game with you, by cashing your money and no giving the service for what you have paid for.They will let you wait and wait and wait...

-instructors and TRTE are not JAA approved (air indigo???) and you will have only problems when back in europe.

-with 500h tt, and 150 or 300h on type, you may not find a job when airlines insurances ask for 1500hTT.

- all they want is your $ and nothing else, expect to get a crap service right after they cashed your money.

-No one here, has landed a good job after paying one of these companies or they would have said I am a liar.

-don't forget to pay your own accommodation, food, transport...

-paying a company is illegal

for all these reasons, I suggest you strongly to stay on the safe side by keeping your money...

JetABro

2nd Jan 2008, 22:21

Candidate must be B737NG endorsed.
Candidate must be A320 endorsed.

To gain a jet job in Australia now days, 3 of the main operators have the above requirement.

You also have to have 1500 - 2000TT with a min 500hrs multi or glass cockpit or multi crew, and then you can pay your $30K for your TR and job.

So unless your coming from another operator where they have paid for your TR, then you need to pay.

BTW, I think the main problem is not paying for the TR, but the pilots that stay with a company for a very short time only to jump to another as soon as they can. Leaving the first company with a hugh line training bill and no pilot.
Just my two cents.

...and yes, I paid for my TR...sure beats a bug smasher.:ok:

Oh yeah...line training...sorry mate but only know of the companies like Eagle Jet, etc. There is ICP, but wouldn't touch them with a 10 foot pole.
Good luck

dartagnan

16th Jan 2008, 19:57

hi,

got a call from a company (please dont PM me) asking for type rating only(in Asia).
they didn't care of how many hours on the bus.

this is the actual tendency, in a few months, airlines will hire new A320 pilots with 0 hours on type.

the contract can be 2 years or more, in return, they give line training, and pay well...very well!!!:ok:

Founder

16th Jan 2008, 22:33

They real crappy part about airline requirements are not that the Airlines are asking for X number of hours on type but the local CAA of the country that the Airline operates in is asking for it...

A good example is Saudi Arabia, they refuse any pilots who do not have 100 hours on type. India is the same. Morocco requires 300 hours on type and the list goes on and on and on and on...

I've been looking for a job on the bus now for a couple of months and I've gotten some good responses and almost always an answer. I have an interviw coming up soon.

And I can tell you guys that with 300 hours total time there is almost not a chanse in h*ll to get a job without a Type-Rating on some kind of aircraft...

When I applied to companies before my TR I'd be lucky to get a no or even an answer at all... there are just too many guys and girls with a CPL and 200 hours in total who are all looking for that "bonding agreement"...

bear11

17th Jan 2008, 09:08

Most CAAs insist on a minimum number of hours on type for "outsiders", it's simple protectionism on their part, and we could debate all day whether they are right or wrong. It's not just for new pilots - a buddy who was very experienced and flying MDs in a North African country had to leave when the airline switched to Airbus (the airline wanted to keep him, bond him and train him on the A320) as the CAA insisted he had 500 hours on type!

Another small but very important point for those doing type ratings in the EU with no solid job in sight - for God's sake, get your timing right! The peak time for hiring is in the early first half of the year before the new summer season begins, if you think they're going to hire and line train you in the middle of the busy summer or over the winter when flying hours are well down, you'll likely be waiting til the start of the following season.

dartagnan

17th Jan 2008, 10:37

at a certain time, these countries will have to decrease their minimum requirement.
what's the point to fly in asia or in india, when with 500h on the bus you can get a job in europe for BA, easyjet, etc?

soon, airlines won't find any bus pilot on the market ready to move abroad with their family.The few TRTO which train pilots on the bus won't satisfy the demand of pilots for 2008/2009.

the number of A320 pilots is still high, but it can change in a couple of months, specially before summer.

the training is very expensive, but think how much it costs for an indian or a chinese pilot when these guys make only 50-100$/month in these countries?.

Regarding CAA requirements toward expats, how is it possible than INDINGO accept you with 0 hours on the A320, and ask you to pay?

so far, no real good report from these pilots!!!???

I AM STILL WAITING SOME GOOD NEWS FROM THESE "PAY TO WORK" 'PILOTS....

flyblindboy

27th Jan 2008, 16:06

Sorry to bump in on what appears to be a private conversation but i`m interested in airline training partnership because they seem to offer what your after and me too. dont know much about them other than this www.simulator-experience.com (http://www.simulator-experience.com)

thanks

dave

dartagnan

28th Jan 2008, 11:02

don't go to sim experience, some of my friends are still waiting to fly.

Lord Zeberdee

29th Feb 2008, 12:18

Hi Dartagnan

I read your posts with interest. Could you elaborate on the 'waiting to fly' comment as I am considering paying for a type rating and line training and want to know all the pros and cons involved with undertaking this type of training prior to becoming financially involved.

Thanks

Founder

29th Feb 2008, 14:29

flapsfullretard

Do you have personal experience from "getting a job without line-training" or are you just another one on this forum who is speculating?

Kind Regard

CRMCaptain

29th Feb 2008, 16:18

"It s quite difficult to find a job as a low time pilot if u don't have hours on type. Line training seems to be the only choice"
What utter rubbbish Sami1, there are plenty of jobs out there flying something that is not a Bus or Boeing. But as all you sheep are running off and self funding type ratings it has probably escaped your attention that there are plenty of other aircraft types around; where believe it or not the company funds the rating.
As I have mentioned in other threads, I have now had five invitations to airline interviews/assessments in the last three months. It is true I am not low houred due to a season of full time instructing and previous time as part time instructor. I am not boasting and just trying to show that it is possible to get interviews without paying for ratings or line training.
But it is tragic to think you lot cannot see flying jobs beyond an A320 or Boeing 737, which are probably sone of the least interesting flying jobs in the industry."

Amen!!!

The problem with some people is that they want to become something ... and they want it NOW and they are willing to pay a lot for it. Do like the rest of us ... flight instruct, regionals and after that the Airbus or the Boeing.

Believe it or not ... the best jobs out there are those where you don't have to deal with all the airline red tape ... and you actually get to fly for fun!

People willing to pay of a type rating or line training are in it just for the money or the social status ... and you are the ones making the industry what it is today. :mad: :mad: :mad:

Founder

29th Feb 2008, 16:36

CRMCaptain

I think you are way out of line with your statement. To be able to become a pilot in Europe today you can expect to pay at least 100'000 Euro (150'000 USD). Who can come up with such money in the first place? you go to the bank...

when you're finished with your cpl, me-ir and all of that other stuff you find that the companies are not interested, what are your choises? to pay 9000 Euro for an instructor license and then yearn on average 1500 euro per month at best...

How is such a person to be able to pay back the loans when the bank comes screaming for money? They're not...

So they see that companies are paying 3-4000 euro per month for a first officer type-rated on the 737 or the A320. That's the only option for people in this situation.

To be able to fly a Turbo-prop you still have to fund your own type-rating and often they are very close to or just as expensive as a jet... and there are plenty more jets out there than TP's... you can probably imagine where the safest bet would be...

BUT

When you do have a type-rating you find out that there are a couple of hundred others who also have this... so these young pilots have to buy line-training to be able to get ahead in the long line waiting for an interview...

I've met about 80-90 student pilots... 15-20 of them are working today... those odds are not very good...

All of them had to pay for their own type-rating regardless if they fly SAAB 340, 2000, ATR, Dash, Embraer, Airbus or Boeing... and all but 1 flying 737's had to pay for line-training...

that's real life today...

ACP

11th Mar 2008, 13:42

Hi there,

I am selling my headset Telex Airman 750 with the A320 Pin. It's 100% new. I bought it as I was supposed to start A320 line training and I have never started :} PM me if interested

Signet 263

11th Mar 2008, 18:18

W@NKER!!!

Get some dignity, if you're not good enough, you're not good enough, its unbelievable what lengths people will go to before the the pin drops!

Muppet!:ugh::ugh::ugh:

dodi33

8th Apr 2008, 15:09

I get line training with egypte airline for morre infos send me e-mail [email protected]

rezaei999

14th Apr 2008, 19:22

Hello, would you help me to find anywhere for line training on A320.thank you.

rezaei999

14th Apr 2008, 19:30

hi,would you help me and inform me for 300 hours line training.thank you

Giannos

21st Apr 2011, 16:27

Dear All,

Does anybody know where I can find an airline offering line training for A320?I would like to buy some Hours.

Regards,

WX Man

22nd Apr 2011, 15:41

Going to join the bandwagon here and say:

Do not pay for line training

you will not get a good job afterwards

you are ruining pay and conditions for everyone

And on a separate note, picking up from earlier comments, I'd rather be well paid and bored than poorly paid and bored. I'd also rather do very little work and earn shed loads of money than work 100-120h a week and earn shed loads. A girl I :mad: the other day is a corporate lawyer: her starting salary was USD160,000, and she's been working for her company for 3 years. So I'm guessing she takes home about GBP 180,000 a year. She lives in a sh*thole of a flat, and she says she's not bothered because she is never at home. She works around 120h a week and frequently gets called in on days off. We worked out that my hourly rate is more than hers...

... and I've never paid for a TR or line training.

cerealkiller

23rd Apr 2011, 08:47

If you think its useless then I guess you are just another contributor to the problem.Unfortunately I'm not a contributor. I had to work several years before being able to pay for my training, I mean PPL to fATPL, and now I'm back again into an office, working as before in the I.T., trying saving money should an option arise.

If I spent all my hard earned money in my training is just because this is I always wanted to do: make the flight deck my office. Might be it is not the same for you, but every time I hear a jet engine in the distance, I look at the sky wishing I was there.

You've been probably lucky enough to live in the right place where it is still possible to find "low houred" jobs. Europe is not the same, doesn't work like that here. So, should I finally save enough money to do it, I'd jump in a p2f scheme, not blinded of course, only if I can see I'll be given the chance to stay in after the line training or whatever. That will be my money and my life, since if I'm doing it at 33 probably means I could afford it before.

By the way, what I really don't like is that all the time you bring back every single post to your hate against p2f. It's going off-topic, that's it. You're not even changing people mind, just showing everybody your feeling and might be other people is not interested in it.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you can't do that or so, it is just useless for the other people questions.

Superpilot

23rd Apr 2011, 09:54

you will not get a good job afterwards

Wise enough to say so, but not enough experience to actually know the reality of it. I know 8-9 guys who have secured employment within months of completing their line training assignment. Who be the fool? :\

Superpilot

23rd Apr 2011, 12:18

No we do not let people pay to fly here

That's good! cos over here (Europea and ME) they seem to lap them up! Different standards wherever you go. Guys unable to beat the system (i.e. get a fair and equal assessment opportunity) are getting in on the back of p2f schemes. We didn't invent the rules.

SloppyJoe

23rd Apr 2011, 12:48

Never said that if you pay to fly it means you are not able to fly. It does however mean that for whatever reason you are not good enough with a descent enough CV to get a proper flying job.

Proper flying job is in a C150 making minimum wage if that is all you can get and would earn the respect of all your future colleagues by doing so, something anyone who does pay to fly will never have. If you go down that route I hope when you are 50 in your left seat of an A320 doing many sectors every day making next to nothing you finally realize that it was pillocks like you that made the industry what it is today. If only you had something to fall back on but hey you spent all your money paying to be a pilot of a nice shiny jet.

It is a good job still but fast becoming an average one with long hours, lots of days away from home. IT IS A JOB though, do not pay to do it.

cgwhitemonk11

Opinions is all you get on Pprune, if you take anything as fact your are a silly silly man.

cerealkiller

23rd Apr 2011, 14:07

Just a small thing: when I was talking about the money I spent for my training, I meant PPL to CPL. Unless you got it for free in a lottery, you should know it is quite expensive.

Anyway that's it, cgwhitemonk1 is right, this is not the right thread to talk about this.

:ok:

Fingersmac

27th Apr 2011, 18:02

cerealkiller wrote:

So, should I finally save enough money to do it, I'd jump in a p2f scheme, not blinded of course, only if I can see I'll be given the chance to stay in after the line training or whatever.

and now I'm back again into an office, working as before in the I.T., trying saving money should an option arise.

How would you feel if you went back to your IT job to discover that someone else, fresh out of University/College with no experience, is now doing your old job for free or even paying your former/potential employer to do it??

Fingersmac

27th Apr 2011, 18:35

line training

Line "training" is such a misnomer! Many of you fail to realize that you are not going to receive some sort of specialized training through these schemes. You are buying line "experience" not "training".

You will be given a line indoctrination and a line check after which you are considered a line pilot. You will not receive 500 hours of training and will be a burden to the line captain who is not receiving any sort of additional pay or training to "train" you. As a line pilot, you are now performing a job for which you are not being paid. In fact you are paying your employer to do the work, which is absolutely ludicrous!

Fingersmac

27th Apr 2011, 18:37

...but every time I hear a jet engine in the distance, I look at the sky wishing I was there.

A few years old and geared towards the US regionals but it still relevant.

http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/option,com_docman/task,doc_view/gid,24/Itemid,85.html

Page 2 of the story continues here: http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/option,com_docman/task,doc_view/gid,24/Itemid,85.html

cerealkiller

28th Apr 2011, 09:58

How would you feel if you went back to your IT job to discover that someone else, fresh out of University/College with no experience, is now doing your old job for free or even paying your former/potential employer to do it??

Actually it is what happens almost every day in my country, not only in the IT. Market situation is so bad, at least here, that companies are looking for the cheapest resources and doesn't matter if they're good or bad for their business. I'm not saying I like this situation, just stating what it is.

...but every time I hear a jet engine in the distance, I look at the sky wishing I was there.

I put down the sentence in the wrong way, probably since english is not my first language I concentrate on the grammar and less on the contents.

What I wanted to say is just that I'd like to be flying every time I think about aviation. It was like this since I was a child, is a passion, can't avoid it. That's why I'm working in the IT and I've been working in that field for so many years, 'cause it's my other passion. Of course they're different, way different. It's not about the "jet" itself, I swear I wouldn't mind flying a PA28 around just being able to get enough money to live. I knocked many doors and made hundreds calls for any kind of flying job. Have friends sitting in Africa waiting for a job since months but honestly can't stay there doing nothing, I need to pay bills and eat.

By the way, don't worry about me regarding your working situation, salary or whatever.. I won't have the chance of joining any line training or p2f scheme, so be happy. No money for that now and not even in the future, that's it.

shiver

28th Apr 2011, 12:11

Its very easy for a lot of people on here to give out about people paying to fly when they are sitting in a shiny jet everyday. Try working in a supermarket for 18months on minimum wage all the time looking up at the sky at every plane that goes overhead wishing you were flying it, then you might change your mind on the p2f idea! After all,what choice do we have?! Continue to work in such places for the next 2, 5, 10 years?

Superpilot

28th Apr 2011, 13:05

Exactly shiver. What most people don't understand is that this topic is not black and white. Depending on who you are, what age you are, where you are and what work/employment rights you have in any one particular country, there is a for/against argument when it comes to p2f. Well I've sold out, I'm about to bite my p2f cherry after so many years siding with my thankless morals, watching others get hired and waiting for a proper assessment opportunity :ugh:

captainsuperstorm

1st May 2011, 05:29

if you think you will get a paid job after the magical P2F scheme.why not buy a DVD of cinderella in wonderland?

get real, if pilots had a job at the end, there would be billions P2F or P2W all around the world.

Then every job around this planet would be P2F. doesn't make any sens.

P2F is not working, P2F will go to bin. only bad pilots join them becasue nobody want them. probably they ar5e too bad to fly a piper and pass their IR th or 5th attempt.

I know 8 guys who paid to fly, none got a job at the end, they still sit at home with their 700tt, 500 hours on 320/737.

if you look online, companies want guys with 2000h, 500h on type in the last 3 months, current,... it means it s only pilot cuurently flying who can apply. When you are out with your 700h total , I can guaranty you that you won't find anything except a position at Tesco.

I can tell you, aviation is deeply f...up! there is no way to jump to airlines.
WWW wrote a post about it. even military pilots with thousand hours on jet can not fly an airbus.

again, get real! just throwing money won't solve your problems!:=
it 's not because you are desperate that you have to become a kamikaze with your money.

Grow up, and see the true reality of this market.Give maybe a break, do something else, go on vacation for 2-3 years, open your own little business, and give yourself a break instead to bite your nail all day long.

This market is still very unstable, low $ value, expensive gas/fuel, basic food going up, ... more airlines will go out of business, and you certainly don't want risk your money, would you?

annita

14th Jun 2011, 11:08

I am buying 500hrs next year , I had enough.

I dont care what people say, i used to be like everyone else, dont buy hours but as years are passing and times are more difficult to get a job , I am finding myself panicking as i am entering the no fly zone due to age.

Yes is destroying the business but I had enough and i prefer taking my chances with 500hrs jet than none

off the subject : been to an interview and we went to a sim session where a captains son was flying with me and was holding the SID upside down.

Guess what: He got the job.........

BYR

14th Jun 2011, 12:15

I almost can't believe that statement. I have heard from several people that they got a job in GA after completing the integrated course.

If you have been looking for a job for years there clearly have to be something wrong with your CV. You might not get to fly a jet after getting your licenses but it's not impossible to get a job.

annita

14th Jun 2011, 13:27

I dont understand u dont believe that statement.
Obviously if you are following the thread you are considering it also.
Try owing 90 000 euros and live in a country with three flight schools with an instructors salary of 600 euros plus 10 euros per hour and tell me how in hell you can pay off your loan.
You live in Denmark, go to Sweden via the bridge probably , so you have good chances for GA jobs but some of us live on small islands.

I am a lucky lady as i work for an airline in the admin and it pays the bills.
Dont tell me to relocate because obviously the salary will not be much better and i will end loosing my house.

Please if you see some GA jobs around for me, send them my way by all means.

all is relative Danske venn so dont come here selling your Viking spirit because there is no right or wrong when it comes to this.

sekmeth

14th Jun 2011, 13:29

@byr
Wow what a statement there..
I'm from the Netherlands, where there is almost zero GA, I was lucky enough to get a job there but 90% of my classmates were not that lucky and are still unemployed.
I think the same applies to many countries and many students looking for a job.
Not saying the best way to get into the jets is buying your way in, but saying that if you dont have a job its a CV issue, really?

annita

14th Jun 2011, 13:42

No comment:D

BYR

14th Jun 2011, 14:17

The point wasn't that there is something wrong with you CV. You shouldn't commence flight training in the first place if you think you're gonna stay in the Netherlands. My point was that it's not impossible to get a job - it's just a matter of flexibility.

cerealkiller

14th Jun 2011, 15:29

Might be interesting to somebody:

Jet Direct - Flight Crew Solutions - A320 First Officer Program (http://www.jetdirect.co/jobopportunities/14-program-program/76-a320-first-officer-program)

Cheers

captain.weird

14th Jun 2011, 15:47

Does anybody know with which airline JetDirect is working with in Turkey?

sekmeth

14th Jun 2011, 17:27

BYR
Give me the name of a GA company that will hire me with having only 250hrs, anywhere in the world where I can get a job with my JAA CPL, and then give it to the other 1000's waiting for a job. The GA isnt an option for everyone and you should know better, do you really think that all the FTO's with their thousands of students look at the jobs availeble in GA and corperate and jet world? Dont think so, for many there is no job atm, whatever you say. For me, im lucky at the moment to get 30hrs SE and 10 ME a month, but no way that everyone can get that job

captainsuperstorm

15th Jun 2011, 06:03

sekmeth is right, nothing is wrong with your CV, you are just not alone in this market and your license doesn't grand you a job.
You all think when you come out of school, you become a flying God and airlines will call you! wrong!
Behind you there are thousand of pilots pushing the doors, and everyday there are more and nore pilots asking to pay airlines for a miserbale work.

There are so many pilots all around the world (hundred of thousand,yes) looking that even foreign countries have increase their minimum for a work permit.
Just look at the reality, aviation is not a career anymore. Most EU airlines who have the 320, want you to start with their program, which is P2F. They will never hire you. What they want is to get rid of their pilots and hire cheap pilots on a per hour rata.
We live in a very low cost mentality where even paying crews is a problem, even giving them a sandwich can bring an airline on its knees.

Soon everybody who want work in an airline will have to pay.Unemployment rate in europe will stagne, have you heared about stagnflation. Give a look.

About GA, yes I can find you a job tomorrow, in the midlle of Africa, pay peanuts with monkeys , and sleep under your wing with muskitos.
After 1-2 years, you come back to Europe (for your career, ahah)with 1500h of SEP which worth nothing here , and then what next? P2F?is that the futur? yes it is.

now come back to me with the "yeah, there are job out there" so we can have a good laugh!

be happy to be unemployed! at least you have a nice blue license that you can show to friends, mom and dad!

pacrion

17th Jun 2011, 10:42

any useful and true info regarding jetdirect solutions?

170to5

17th Jun 2011, 11:05

The common sentiment in a lot of these posts that I have noticed is summed up well by sekmeth:

Give me the name of a GA company that will hire me with having only 250hrs, anywhere in the world where I can get a job with my JAA CPL, and then give it to the other 1000's waiting for a job.

Maybe the problem is that despite you knowing this fact, you decided to go through flying training, not only that but to go through flying training without a job offer at the end, in the midst of one of, if the the, biggest global financial crises in history?

It seems to be a surprise to people who post on this thread that it's so difficult to get a job - did you not have enough warning that this would be the case before you spent very substantial amounts of cash on training?!

JB One

17th Jun 2011, 19:16

I tried to call JetDirect through the number on their contact page a few days ago, but got the message the number was temporary disconnected. I think it is a scam... :=

captainsuperstorm

18th Jun 2011, 16:40

forget about a flying job!, I can tell you, nobody want hire commercial pilots with no hours on type or with expired license.
why dont you look for a girlfriend(make babies, have a life), and wait 2-3 years to see if the market improved or not.

my advice: do something else or you will all become bitter.!

avi8r.mir

1st Jul 2011, 00:09

HEy, where are you going to do you line training, i am doing my line training in Aug.

PilotUk

1st Jul 2011, 00:25

Guys,

P2F became an option in the Commercial aviation industry but it is not the right thing to do. The right thing to do is always build up your experience step by step.

You Fly a single engine then you fly a multi engine than you fly a Turbo prop and finally you get hired by a Major Airline.

The Path has changed and all we see now is low time pilots paying their own type rating and line training in order to find themselves a Job. This is a dangerous thing if you do not know what to do. But i will list few things you have to know before applying for a line training scheme.

1. Is the agency offering line training able to provide you the Airline contacts or they are hiding the name until you give them huge amount of money ?

2. Is the Line training broker able to be transparent with you and offer you the possibility for you to pay the Airline Directly ? or they want hige amount of money up front ?

3. Do you know where you are going ? airline name ? country ?and etc or you are dealing in the dark until you pay ?

4. Do you have proofs from the Airline if the line Training broker is in alliance with them ? or you do not even know where you are going ?

If yes Go ahead with them and Ask the Line training Broker to pay your training to the Airline directly to avoid any kind of financial problems.

If not , please stay away from the agency it may be trying to sell something insolvent to you.

Good Luck to all ....

kip

2nd Jul 2011, 15:04

sorry - but this industry must be full of Idiots :ugh:

This thread is 4 years long!!

It is this simple:
DON'T PAY TYPE RATINGS
DON'T PAY LINE TRAINING

the managementguy that invented this in the first place must be laughing his ass off!! :E

I can accept bondings and lower pay during training, the rest is bull****!!
And for you that tell me that you get a step ahead and your lifetime salary will be better - get real!! If this continues, there will be no jobs left in the real airlines!!

and yes, the first job is hard to get - I waited years, so I know the game - and its not funny!

best luck to all that work for money

captainsuperstorm

3rd Jul 2011, 07:49

kip is right.I have been in this market for 30 years, so I know the ****.

are pilot a bunch of idiots?
I have seen too many sleeping in their car,..

and the most amazing thing: flight schools are filled with these idiots thinking they will get a well paid job after their 200h CPL, and they all think there is a pilot shortage:ugh:.

the wanabe sections is filled with guys like that!

anyway I have more money than you, I can buy t/r on any plane I want, and line training so you will be kick out! I am waiting for a place on the 380... :}

Ihab Ghazi

1st Aug 2011, 14:16

Hey

Please any one have info about AWVS - aviation solutions (http://Www.awvs.net?)

Ihab Ghazi

7th Aug 2011, 16:22

This company AWVS - aviation solutions (http://www.awvs.net/?) offered me 300 hours for 15000€
but i dont like that they ask 5000€ deposit and the contract will be online!!

So any advice guys?

captainsuperstorm

7th Aug 2011, 19:41

mpalie,

would you stop to put fake advertising for your fake web site.

Mod, please, ban this guy, he is everywhere trying to get pilots into his fake P2F scam...:yuk:

natashacabin80

8th Aug 2011, 02:28

mpawlive,

I thought you had found one linetraining provider called linetraining.net. Are you in this thread and advertising for them soon. :=

captainsuperstorm

8th Aug 2011, 07:39

mod ban him, b
or ask him to pay for a banner!:ugh:

xtrem

20th Sep 2011, 00:23

Please guys beware of awvs or tqas of mister ilias stratigos from greece or cyprus.this is a scam ; i lost my money with this escrow .

Merrey

6th Oct 2011, 15:13

Hey, so has anyone got any good tails of P2F? I am not for it and I am not against it.

In fact due to misfortune I have ruined my best chance and I had that shiny jet job in the right hand seat buzzing across Europe and it is amazing. I would give my left nut to get there again ( they can't take my medical off me for having one nut.....right? :E )

But I fear the industry has now gone this way, correction is this way. I have searched high and low and everyone wants 500hrs on type and my 170hrs just won't cut it. So I think I am going to have to join the clan and P2F. Even looking for turboprob jobs, you need a type rating and hours on type. $$$$ Even to do parachute dropping in Plymouth I needed to spend £1000 to get the rating and got no pay while doing the job!!

I totally agree with everyone who said it is killing the industry it really is, but then let me put this question out. When was our job worth £60,000 plus a year? Look how many pilots are out there these days, our job isn't special like it was 20 / 30 years ago.

Take me. I am 24. I am 80k in the red and will most likely go to 110k. So after P2F assuming I get a job I am paying it back on my wage of £28k ( after tax ) per year as an FO for 2 years / then £35k ( after tax ) for 4years as an SFO / then £55k ( after tax ) as a captain for 30 years.

Now I won't add that up, but that additional £30k to get that reward worth it I think. Maybe I am wrong, well in fact I am sure there are lots of you who will tell me I am wrong, and deluded and a :mad:. But if you haven't sat up at 37,000' an seen the sunset over Europe then you can keep your views to yourself.

I will get to that right hand seat again, if I have to pay and work 20hrs a day to do so I really don't care.

Now on the count of 3, 1-2-3 ATTACK!!!!!!!!!

Wesker

26th Nov 2011, 12:19

110k in the red...In an industry where salaries are just getting lower and lower and job security is not even to talk about. Please think about it...

Dct_Mopas

27th Nov 2011, 20:52

Merrey, have you not asked yourself why you ruined your best chance flying an airbus in Europe? It doesn't matter what others think of p2f, the question must and should be why you didn't make it (I presume) with some of the worlds best trainers with the orange airline. Is another £30k going to make a difference? I think not . . .

goldenman

5th Dec 2011, 08:21

my 170hrs just won't cut itsure with 670total, 500h airbus, airlines will run after you.

where is your ATP?you still need to pay another 830h.

assuming I get a job I am paying it back on my wage of £28k ( after tax ) per year as an FO for 2 years / then £35k ( after tax ) for 4years as an SFO / then £55k ( after tax ) as a captain for 30 years.

assuming you get a job, and why do you assume you will get a job if you paid to work already.
why the hell someone want pay you, when thousand of pilots like you pay to play?

think about it?why do you think you have no job? it's because too many people now pay to fly and airlines are the winners, and as long people like you pay to fly, and screw everybody for this hobbyfly, there won't be any PAID jobs for you and for us.