Dan Air Route Network

[wouldhave]

Everyone I apologise if this is in the wrong area but still new to PPrune.

Dan Air were one of my favourite airlines. I remember seeing their BAC 1-11s and 737s at Newcastle frequently and their 727s (my personal favourite) at Manchester on less frequent visits.

I have been trying for some time to find out as much as possible about their route network but have been hitting a brick wall.

Any help anyone can give me particularly with charter destinations would be greatly appreciated.

[m5dnd]

Try locating the book "The Spirit of DAN-AIR" by Graham M. Simons
ISBN 1 870384 20 2

Should answer all Your questions..

Sorry have not got my copy at this time, left it at my parents in storage!

A fine airline..

Good luck

[ATR42300]

A copy of the Dan Air book is available at the moment on ebay

[wouldhave]

thanks to both of you - im watching it to see how expensive it gets

[treadigraph]

Wouldhave, there are several s/h copies available via Amazon and Abebooks - £20+.

Great airline, I used to enjoy flying with them.

[LowNSlow]

Dan Dare's HS 748 Budgies were a very common sight at Scatsta in the Shetland Isles during the construction of Sullom Voe Oil Terminal as they ferried the "bears" back and fore to Glasgow and Aberdeen. Christmas was always interesting as 6,000+ workers had to be taken home to see the wee un's!

[Richard Taylor]

How many Budgies did Dan Air have at Dyce at their peak?

Understand quite a few (late 70s?)

[peeriebreeks]

As far as I remember Shell had 6 Dan-Air 748's per rotation flying Aberdeen to Sumburgh in the mid-seventies plus one for Chevron and one for Conoco. Dan-Air had five offices in the terminal at Sumburgh and a lot of check-in staff. Around 700 pass holders at Sumburgh in that period

[Selfloading]

You might want to have a look on ebay for some Dan Air inflight magazines, they go quite cheap and have loads of info about the airline.

[WHBM]

As you have probably found out by now Dan-Air had a constantly-changing approach to scheduled services which went through all sorts of incarnations, but for much of their existence was a "crumbs from the table" unco-ordinated network that basically was whatever BEA/BA didn't want to do.

The charter operations settled down to a more typical mainstream IT set of routes, but in the 1950s their Avro Yorks roamed the world on oddball flights and they were not unusual in places like Singapore.

In addition to the expected routes from the UK to the Mediterranean they had a longstanding base at Berlin Tegel and operated holiday flights from there to the same Mediterranean points.

Then there was the 707 era in the 1970s when they operated transatlantic charters for a while. Toronto and Vancouver were some of their most frequently served points. They eventually lost such charter contracts and the 707s dropped back to freighting from Gatwick down to Africa.

I went with them in the 1980s on a scheduled service from Manchester to Heathrow in a One-Eleven, just for a whim instead of the BA Shuttle. About a dozen passengers, the route didn't last for long. Par for the course with them really.

I really think there are very few areas of aviation they didn't get into at some time or other.

When the 146-100 came out they bought their first-ever new aircraft, but then used them on charters to Palma. The seat-mile costs compared to the competition must have been horrendous.

Their charter bases in the UK changed around from time to time, especially the smaller ones, but Gatwick, Manchester, Newcastle and Glasgow were longstanding. When they had the Clarksons contract with Comets (mid-1960s until 1974) their North-East operation was based at Teesside rather than Newcastle.

[norman atkinson]

I suspect that the origins are 'trooping' service personnel. This leads me to Marshall Suttons of Beverley in Yorkshire who ran charter in connection with Dan Dare. I had/have a villa in Menorca for 35 years and used MS and Dan Dare. So there is Newcastle, Bristol, Manchester, Teesside, Birmingham and - guessing- Cardiff.

In a Quixotic way, Menorca 'changeover days' were fridays and then Fridays and Mondays so Dan Dare must have flown to other destinations.

I do recall flights flying 'w's' then.

I hope that my sketchy memory will start to give clues to your quest.

[Whitehatter]

and holding it all together was that place of miracles and wonders, where magic was performed on top of a hill in Hants.

I refer to Lasham, of course....

[chevvron]

Dan Air acquired 4 'budgies' when they took over Skyways; these had been used for the 'coach air' Lympne to Beauvais services amongst other things (when they weren't sliding off the grass runway at Portsmouth!). I'm not sure if Dan Air continued Lympne - Beauvais; I suspect not 'cos I think Lympne closed shortly after the takeover. They were also used for Luton - Leeds - Glasgow services.
Dan Air '146s were used for Gatwick - Berne replacing the '748s(runway about 1200m!) and the Gatwick - Newcastle - Stavanger - Bergen route.

[pzu]

see this web site

http://www.danair.org/

PZU - Out of Africa

[Geezers of Nazareth]

My one and only experience of flying with dan-Air was in the mid/late 80s, on a bucket-n-spade trip to Palma de Mallorca.

We pitched-up at gatwick on a Saturday evening, and checked-in our bags, and then discovered that the flight had been delayed until the following morning. We were put up in a local hotel, where 'food would be layed on for us'. It wasn't, because the chef had gone home; he'd been told we would all be there by 10pm, and we didn't start to arrive until 1am!
Back to gatwick on Sunday morning, and into the departure lounge. Managed to find an un-manned info desk, and read the screen (upside down!). We knew which gate the flight was going to, but were surprised to see the a/c type as 'DC8'!
Went to the gate, and a DC-8 duly turned-up - African Safari Airways, complete with zebra-strip tail! It was an old JAL aircraft, still with the last two numbers of its JAL registration on the nose-wheel door ('39' I think). On board, all the signs, emergency cards and plastic seat head-rests were in japanese with the JAL logo!

Quite a surreal trip. When we eventually got to Mallorca in the early afternoon the Rep had been there all night because Dan-Air couldn't tell him when the flight was going to turn-up!

What a way to run an airline.

[bean]

Chevron. Re sliding off the grass at Portsmouth that was Channel Airways or crapways as we spotters in Jersey used to call them. In August 1967 they managed to seriously damage two of their 748s in one day & also less seriously, incurred damage to one of their Viscounts in Switzerland

[wouldhave]

Thanks to everyone for their help. Its good to see memories of dan air whether they be positive or not. My last flight with them from Newcastle to Athens was delayed on the outbound (only by 4 hrs) but I remember clearly watching for her coming into land. They were taken over by BA one month later. My only regret is I never got to fly on one of the 727s operated by them.

[fido69r]

Hey, Geezers of Nazareth ...whered ya dissapear to...did you get the messages I sent you?....was disapointed by that, but it was probably my own fault...Alstec have taken me on, in terminal 5...should be interesting.:rolleyes:

[Humanahum]

I suggest that you go to the dan air site www.danairremembered.t35.com (http://www.danairremembered.t35.com) you will see the networks as they developed working to get them all on display

[The Flying Stool]

What type of aircraft did Dan Air operate out of Newcastle for charters in 1991? It was my first every flight at the tender age of 6 years old to Mahon. I vividly remember boarding the aircraft by using ventral air stairs under the tail so that narrows it down to either 1-11s or 727s but I'm intrigued by what it was. Could anyone tell me?

Thanks

Adam

[norwich]

wouldhave. This may be too old for your search, and you may have seen it before ? scanned from 'British Independent Airlines since 1946' I hope it may be of some use to you ?

Keith.

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii58/keithnewsome/danairroutes2.jpg

[The SSK]

As a Newcastle spotter in the early and mid 1960s, one of my most vivid memories was of the airfield being beaten-up in a remarkable flying display by a Dan-Air Dove. It was on the occasion of the type's phasing-out from the cross-country route which followed different routings on different days and in different seasons but took in Manchester, Birmingham, Bristol, Cardiff and Bournemouth and possibly other places as well.

I think the Doves must have been replaced by Daks, it certainly wasn't Budgies, they came later. The Daks also flew to Kristiansand, sometimes even with the odd paying customer.

Later, in 1969, there was an Ambassador flying a Saturday Carlisle and Isle of Man service, with a Newcastle-Carlisle fare of twelve bob (60p). And no, I never got around to partaking :{

[ian16th]

Around '74-'76 Dan Air had a 748 based at Leeds-Bradford. It did a daily 'bus-route' that was something like: Leeds-Glasgow-Leeds-Cardiff-Bristol-Bournemouth-Jersey-Guernsey-Bournemouth-Bristol-Cardiff-Leeds-Glasgow-Leeds.

At the same time Air Anglia did a similar thing with an F27 based at Norwich, its route was something like Norwich-Leeds-Edinburgh-Aberdeen-Stavanger-Aberdeen-Edinburgh-Leeds-Norwich.

Seeing as the Dan Air 1st leg was Leeds-Glasgow and the last leg was Glasgow-Leeds, I used it quite frequently. I was based in Leeds and had to visit Glasgow based customers quite a lot. I could spend a full day at my customer and not have a night away from home and family. I did one day trip to Bournemouth and back to visit the RN in Portsmouth, I managed to get my business done while Dan Air were playing around in 'Bergerac Country' :)

When I needed to get to Edinburgh customers I did the same with Air Anglia.

Two very useful services for me at the time. Can it be done today?

[BOAC]

Adam - in 1991 the 'normal' NCL charter cab was a 737, but it sounds like either a 1-11 or 727 as you say. Depends a bit on where you were going too.

[airsmiles]

The 'cross-country' was known as the Link City, which I think was even painted on one of the HS748's. Bournemouth (i.e. Hurn in proper language) had 2 based 748's that stayed overnight. I thought one was for the Jersey/Guernsey routes and the other for the Link City route.

When the Comet at Hurn in 1979/1980, Bath Travel sold tickets for the positioning flight back to Gatwick for £8 each. The aircraft was G-BDIU and the pilots did an amazing take-off roll starting from turning onto the runway, with what appeared to be a near vertical climb-out! At Gatwick they finished with an overshoot before landing. What an amazing £8 worth.

I also flew on B727's G-BAFZ and and G-BAJW when I did 2 ski trips to Clermont-Ferrand. I did a cockpit visit on one trip and there were 5 flight deck crew.

Certainly an oddball airline and always something interesting to see. Like the Fiji Airways 748 on the Channel Islands route one day! (DQ-FAL, later G-BIUV).

[The Flying Stool]

BOAC...The flight was to Mahon, Menorca in about September 1991. Sorry for being so unspecific.

[BOAC]

I would guess you were treated to a 'luxury' 1-11 but only a guess. The 737 usually did the longer stuff like Larnaca.

[matspart3]

The 748's did the Staverton/Jersey charters too (early 80's?) I think they used to go via Bristol

HS748 G-AXVG :: G-AXVG.jpg :: Fotopic.Net (http://staverton.fotopic.net/p10898747.html)

HS748 G-BHCJ :: G-BHCJ.jpg :: Fotopic.Net (http://staverton.fotopic.net/p10898749.html)

[mustbeaboeing]

Interesting airline was Dan-Air.
Some are surprised they lasted as long as they did......... probably something to do with 'Team Spirit', sadly not shown up on the accountants balance sheet so not wanted these days by the Bean Counters.

With regard to #10 "When the 146-100 came out, they bought their first ever new aircraft".................
Did they not get a brand new Nord 262 many years before, and play with it for a short while.?

[captain.speaking]

I think the Nord 262 [ operated from mid-1970 to early 1972 ] was actually second-hand, bought from Air Ceylon.

Coincidentally, I've just been looking at the DA scheduled services for 1962, and in the timetable there is a three times weekly extension of the Bristol/Cardiff/Liverpool/Newcastle service to Dundee and Glasgow. Dundee is shown as being served via "HMS Condor, Arbroath" !

Does anyone know if this ever actually came about ?

[kala87]

Dan Dare also had a significant base at Luton during the late 60's and early 70's, from about 1969 to 1974.

The based aircraft were 3 short-fuselage 1-11's (ex-British Eagle I think), plus one or two Comets. The Comets were later replaced by 727's. it was one of these 727's that nearly came to disaster on Rwy 26 on takeoff in 1974. The aircraft climbed away but not before sinking into the valley beyond the runway threshold and taking out some approach lights, although my memory is a bit hazy about the actual details of this event.

I believe the airline quit LTN soon after; in any case 1974-75 were terrible years for the British IT charter business following the oil price hike and Clarkson's collapse.

I had several flights in the 748's between Aberdeen and Sumburgh in the mid-70's. Those crews really knew how to handle those aircraft in frequently atrocious weather, especially landing at Sumburgh in severe gusting crosswinds.

They also flew a DC7 freighter in the late 1960's, based at Gatwick. I recall seeing it depart one day with an engine feathered after t/o, not unusual for a DC7 with those temperamental turbo-compound powerplants.

The airline also had some very sad incidents, such as the Barcelona Comet crash in 1970 and the Tenerife 727 crash in 1980. Both were CFIT accidents caused by crew disorientation when using dubious navaids and procedures.

[WHBM]

....significant base at Luton during the late 60's and early 70's, from about 1969 to 1974.

The based aircraft were 3 short-fuselage 1-11's (ex-British Eagle I think), plus one or two Comets.
The One-Elevens were from American Airlines, as well as former British Eagle ones, but the charter contracts from Luton were largely ex-Eagle ones, which Dan-Air picked up when Eagle went out of business. British Eagle was the last real charter operator based at Heathrow, but Dan-Air chose to set up a new base at Luton for these flights rather than use their established one at Gatwick.

This must have been the time when Dan-Air were finally winding up their Airspeed Ambassador fleet. One of these was based at Liverpool and operated daily to Amsterdam, an oddball link in their network. Anyone who is familiar with the sleeve-valved Bristol Centaurus radials on the Ambassador will know they were liable to smoke on startup, and after 15 years in service plus standing overnight at Speke, the morning start-up was something to see (although any aircraft parked behind it was not then something you could see for a few minutes). I wonder if any passenger ever had to be offloaded after witnessing it ! They must have got through several gallons of lube each day.

[The SSK]

captain.speaking: Coincidentally, I've just been looking at the DA scheduled services for 1962, and in the timetable there is a three times weekly extension of the Bristol/Cardiff/Liverpool/Newcastle service to Dundee and Glasgow. Dundee is shown as being served via "HMS Condor, Arbroath" !

Not an answer but

I’ve a copy in front of me of the May 1969 issue of the ABC which shows the Autair Heathrow-Dundee service (Heralds: two a week direct, two via Carlisle and three via Blackpool) using RAF Leuchars.

[WHBM]

..... I've just been looking at the DA scheduled services for 1962, and in the timetable there is a three times weekly extension of the Bristol/Cardiff/Liverpool/Newcastle service to Dundee and Glasgow. Dundee is shown as being served via "HMS Condor, Arbroath" !

Does anyone know if this ever actually came about ?
Let's see what The Oracle (ie Tony Merton-Jones' book "British Independent Airlines") says :

"On July 3 1961 Dakotas took over the Plymouth-Cardiff-Bristol-Liverpool-Newcastle service, and on July 7 G-AMSS inaugurated a Liverpool-Newcastle-Dundee route. Dan-Air used Arbroath as its Dundee terminal airport ...... however, in July 1962 Dan-Air announced that due to lack of support, the services were to be severely pruned".

Looking on Google Earth at the still-extant runway at HMS Condor, I'm sure you could still put a Dakota down there. In those days it was a Fleet Air Arm base.

[ian16th]

Bristol Centaurus radials on the Ambassador ............They must have got through several gallons of lube each day.Can speak off the Centaurus on the Beverley, where each donk consumed about an Imperial gallon an hour!

Sorry if this is considered 'Topic creep'

[captain.speaking]

Thanks for the pointer to Tony M-J's book - silly of me, I've got the book but missed that item entirely - paralysis by analysis I think !

Richard.

[arthur harbrow]

Mustbeaboeing, i have a feeling the first new aircraft Dan Air bought was a Bristol 170 freighter

[WHBM]

Leuchars was not a practical airport for Dundee in 1962 as the Tay Road Bridge was not opened until 1966, so it was relatively inaccessible.

[edinv]

(I have been trying for some time to find out as much as possible about their route network but have been hitting a brick wall.)

DA picked up INV/LHR from BA around 1983 and operated this route very successfully till the end. G-ATPK, BAC 1-11 srs300 was a regular on this route, later replaced by 500 srs aircraft and finally B737s.

They also operated LGW-MAN-INV & INV-ABZ-LGW for a short period around circa 1990-1991

[northsands]

Can anyone tell me exactly when Dan-Air stopped their initial scheduled services into Teesside (begun in 1965)? These ran NCL-MME-LPL-CWL-BRS, with DC3, and later Ambassador as far as LPL. They appear in the summer 1969 timetable, and have vanished by July 1970, after Nord 262 introduced. (Dan-Air resumed Teesside schedules again from 1973).

[Milo Minderbinder]

My first ever flight was in the 1970's - a DanAir Comet Gatwick to Venice, followed by a return from Milan on a 707 two weeks later (school cruise on the SS Uganda)
I'll never forget the food on the way out - sausage beans and chips, all nicely burnt in a foil tray. Much better than the Italian sarnies on the way back

Also nearly flew on a DanAir 748 by accident. At Newcastle in 1977 waiting for a flight to Amsterdam by British Midland. We were all at the departure gate. Servisair girl says "follow me everyone please". No ticket / boarding pass check. We all follow her onto the apron and toward a DanAir 748. I was first in queue, stop and say "No - I'm not getting on that". Servisair girl says "yes you are, thats your plane". Dutch chap behind me says "Theres no way I'm flying to Amsterdam in...THAT"
Servisair girl says "Amsterdam??...thats going to Gatwick".
Passengers in unison "well we're not....."
cue trek back to departure gate where British Midland rep is desperately trying to find her passengers, who are ALL missing....

[winter959]

Was on a Dan Air 737 charter from MUC - TLV - MUC back in the late 80's, seemed to be a regular service for them for some time.

[Midland 331]

BCal not BMA, BTW...

[WHBM]

Was on a Dan Air 737 charter from MUC - TLV - MUC back in the late 80's, seemed to be a regular service for them for some time.
Did this originate from West Berlin ? ere the cabin crew British or German (Dan-Air had a Berlin cabin crew base, although German pilots were not allowed).

[BOAC]

Crewed from Berlin with UK pilots and the lovely Berlin ladies, on detachment to MUC. I did a few on the 73.

[rog747]

the DA jet charter network boomed from the late 60's when more comets were bought and they op'd alot for Clarksons holidays from all over the UK but mainly MAN/NCL/GLA and LTN/LGW
the Canaries was always busy with comets as they had the range over the short 1-11's of Autair (who later became Court) although Laker sent theirs
to TCI and LPA always.

next came their own 1-11's 200/300's (ex AA and British Eagle)

in 1974 the ex JAL 727-146's arrived which Dan had extra exits put in for 146 pax.
the comets often flew out of Hurn for Palmair and correct me if i am wrong but the comet did some TA charters too?

1-11-500's were obtained after the court line collapse and then some came from german companies.
the 1-11's of both types did go to some farther flung places like Athens and Corfu, am not sure if they did Canaries but no doubt they did go there.

the 707-321's often went TA but also did palma and other IT spots and stuff like cruise ship flights and ad-hoc stuff when a Caledonian 707 went sick.

the 707-320c's were all freight and were leased out.
never appeared in full DA colours i think.

the 727-200's came next 189 seats (yuk) plus 737-200/300/400's

as mentioned previously even the little 146's always went to palma and ibiza on Saturday and Sunday nights.

basically if there was a beach or an island then Dan would go there!

someone mentioned British Eagle was the last main charter operator form LAP/LHR
*Heathrow* but not quite true...
BKS which became Northeast/BAS (then british airways/northeast) still operated their Britannia's then in 1969 the new trident 1e's 123 pax until at least 1976 (i worked for them) and we flew for Swans Tours of London (not swan hellenic)
we went with both trident aircraft (summer weekends only) to palma ibiza mahon gerona rimini pisa malaga alicante tunis venice (i think or it might have been treviso or trieste) milan turin munich and zurich in the winter too for ski flights,
although we did not go in to any Austrian airport for charters.
when a trident was w/o 1974 at Bilbao we subbed BA VC10's for our LHR charter work for us...
and when in 1972 Caledonian pranged a 1-11-500 into the lagoon at Corfu they sub'd a trident off us and i went to Dubrovnik with it, and hitched a ride
back a week later when the Wardair 727 op'd the same service.

also BMA did regular charters to Italy and Sardinia from LHR for Citalia holidays until not that long ago and also did palma's and alicante's with dc9's when i was working with them.

[WHBM]

Rog :

Very interesting post, thank you.

I believe the Clarksons Comet flights from the North-East were operated from Teesside, not Newcastle, although Dan-Air doubtless operated plenty of flights from Newcastle for others. In 1977 I was regularly visiting near Teesside, and there was often a DA 727 doing training circuits there.

I was aware of the Northeast charters out of Heathrow in the 1970s, but similarly to the BMI ones from there operating until just a couple of years ago, they appear confined to marginal time at weekends using aircraft otherwise standing idle from weekday trunk route flights; British Eagle was the last to have an actual charter fleet based there (including handling RAF charters with the seats in a Britannia turned backwards, which occasionally when things got disorganised ended up being used on Glasgow schedules in this configuration, to the surprise of the pax !).

I believe that some of the One-Eleven 500s that came from Court Line ater their collapse brought the bizarre Seatback Catering with them, and were used by Dan-Air as such.

Surprised to hear of the Wardair 727 doing a subcharter over to Corfu ! Did they sneak it in and send a westbound Canadian flight off several hours late ? I went in that aircraft in 1969 to Vancouver, stopping both ways in Greenland.

[rog747]

thanks very much...

re the bks/northeast charters, well we did actually have a proper charter
dept at LHR so although the flights were at weekends using the tridents
it was an intensive IT programme for Swans but i understand what you mean...see page 4 of this re bks and swans tours
http://website.lineone.net/~biggles200/BASNewsSheet5.pdf

my first ever flight was an Eagle Britannia bounteous from LAP to BCN 1964 with the seats facing backwards!
also went to rimini in 1967 and we had a trooping a/c then too.

re seatback catering, oh yes lol, an ''interesting feature'' especially when the outbound pax ate the inbound pax's grub too lol.
the meal flaps had locks but they often never got locked.
the grub in those plastic boxes we thought was basic back then but compared to today's fare it was gorgeous.

the wardair 727 sub charter was to dubrovnik not corfu in summer 1972.

very often wardair would lay-over their a/c for a day or 2 at LGW so i guess it was on the ad-hoc rota for ''thunderbird'' duties...
119 pax i recall loads of legroom and big comfy seats and nice girls.
we had the biggest TS ever coming home up over yugoslavia and italy over the mountains and never seen one like it since.
the turbulence was structure bending lol

their one and only 727 cf-fun ? sadly met an untimely demise
somewhere in south america i think after they sold it.
Air-Britain : Boeing 727-11 (http://www.abpic.co.uk/popup.php?q=1027395)

[ZeBedie]

Business class on the 1-11 was great - nice food, good service, lots to drink,three abreast seating - just perfect.