Mobile Phones in the Cabin? Perhaps Not!

[Capot]

Lifted from that excellent newsletter, ABTN;

A survey carried out by You Gov on behalf of the Business Travel Show highlights that nearly half of people do not want mobile phones on flights.

Carried out between October 1 and October10 this year, 65% of people strongly disagreed that mobiles should be allowed, while only 23% agreed or strongly agreed that it was a good idea.
I'm with the 65%. And if common-sense does not prevail, I reserve the right to drown out the cretinous chit-chat of the idiot using his or her phone with my iPod's portable loud-speaker.

Or, to use my mobile to say very loudly that I'm only doing so because there's a half-witted, garrulous, loud-voiced cretin using a mobile nearby who is driving me to murder, and I need to speak to someone to help me to calm down.

That works well on trains, generating blissful silence once the applause has died down.

[UniFoxOs]

Strange mathematics at ABTN - 65%="nearly half"??
Afraid it is inevitable, though.

So - if mobile phones are allowed on aircraft, would mobile phone jammers also be allowed - they must transmit on the same frequencies, so couldn't affect the a/c systems any more than the phones do?

Anybody know a good jammer shop?

UFO

[PAXboy]

Mobiles in a/c cabins ARE inevitable because they = money.
"would mobile phone jammers also be allowed" = see the thread:
What constitutes 'electronic equipment'? := :p

[UniFoxOs]

So if I get a poserphone jammer I will HAVE to take it in the cabin, it can't go in the hold??

That's nice.

UFO

[Flying_Frisbee]

Just out of interest, what's the difference between "cretinous chit-chat" over a mobile phone or between 2 passengers sitting next to you? :confused:
If the airlines, especially LOCOs, can squeeze a few more bucks out of charging pax for providing mobile phone call facilities, I think it's inevitable they'll be introduced.

[A2QFI]

My experience, on trains particularly, is that, apart from the inane content of the phone calls, the people making them tend to shout. I am sometimes tempted to ask them if they have their phones switched on!

[27mm]

They never seem to have heard of "silent" or "meeting" ring modes either - as soon as the engines are shut-down (sometimes even, before) a veritable orchestra of inane ringtones starts up.....

[PAXboy]

A2QFI The reason that people tend to shout on a mobile is because of the small speaker on the phone and the ambient noise around them. This makes it difficult to hear the distant person and the brain thinks that they also cannot be heard - and causes the person to speak louder.

This is why a pax sitting with earphones listening to muzak or the movie, when asked a question by the CC or other, will also speak too loudly. You can try this at home. Turn up the radio and then make a phone call - you will have difficulty hearing and will talk louder. Have someone steadily up the radio volume and you will instinctively speak louder still. The person at the other end of the phone can probably hear you just fine because a mobile phone has a better microphone than it does speaker. This problem has been exacerbated by the fashion and marketing drive to reduce the physical size of mobile (cell) phones, the speaker also gets reduced in size and the small phone does not cover the whole ear in the way that early phones did, thus allowing sound to get in around the side.

(Sorry for lengthy explanation but 27 years in telecommunications tends to do that!)

[SXB]

Paxboy
One of my kids has recently discovered the delights of owning an Ipod, he rarely disconnects the thing from his ears and converses at somewhere close to 100dcb.

Thread drift....I also have an Ipod and I make a point of legally buying my music from the Apple Itunes store, though in the last week I've spent close to €100 on music for my son. I mentioned it to one of our IT guys at work who basically told me I was an idiot for buying it. Apparently, our IT guys scan our pcs and personal data areas for 'illegal files types' which they then delete but in the case of MP3s they first take a copy for themselves. So, the guy gave me an external hard disk containing 100 gygs of various 'teenage type' music absolutely free of charge. You've gotta love those IT guys:)

Back to thread, I hope the pricing structure of mobile phone calls is so high that it discourages the 'yes ! I'm calling from the plane' types. About €10 per minute should do the trick

[strake]

Pah! Luddites, all of you....

The mobile phone has brought incredible advances in technology such as Blackberry's for email and internet connectivity.
Whilst there are certainly people who use their mobile as a luxury item and can consequently be boring, they are far outnumbered by those who use it as a new and important management tool.
Most phones will be used by business travellers..geddit, BUSINESS travellers, travelling in BUSINESS class doing their job. The same people who use limos to the airport, fast lane check-in, luxury lounges and bigger seats, all of which are feature which can and will be criticised by others but all of which assist in alieviating life's toil and drudgery until one can return to the bosum of one's family.
I promise I won't shout....

[ZFT]

I'm firmly with the luddites.
As long as the airlines recognise the need for segregated (i.e mobile or non mobile)seating arrangements and ban ringtones then it could work.
Without segregated seating, expect a higher incidence of air rage events.

[SXB]

Strake makes a good point. Mobile phone connectivity probably means data connectivity as well, being able to use my Blackberry on board a plane would be extremely useful, so would being able to hook up my laptop to internet. The internet service on some Lufthansa aircraft was excellent, it was a shame that Boeing decided to withdraw it.....

[Final 3 Greens]

Boeing Connexions was a great service and coupled with Skype gave affordable airtime.

I used this for conference calls and 1-2-1s, never had a problem when I asked the person in the next seat if they minded - most were curious and asked how to do it afterwards.

[Capot]

Trouble is, Strake, it's the business class passengers, ie mostly business people, whose use of their mobiles on trains is so aggravating. They shout, for a start, and also, I suspect, for a reason.

Their conversations are designed to tell us all how terribly important they are, how much money they deal with, how very, very busy their schedules are, how many different things they can deal with all at once from a train.

And I'm sitting there saying to myself "You self-important w****r, if you were a tenth as important as you pretend you are, you wouldn't need to do all this. You sound like a delusional, incompetent control freak in a panic."

I don't really know what happens in other parts of the train. I would like to think they are more direct there and simply grab the offending phone and take the battery out. Business people are too polite, of course.

But my method of shutting them up (Post 1) works well in Business class (or First as we call it in class-conscious Britain). As it probably would in Business Class on aircraft, unless it gets me arrested as a terrorist. First Class passengers on aircraft have people to phone for them.

[Final 3 Greens]

Capot

I travel regularly in first class and am just a regular guy trying to earn a crust. No one to carry my bags or make calls for me.

You, on the other hand, are crass bigot.

[Capot]

Ah well, 3 Greens, you're probably right. No-one's perfect.

But, as well as being a regular guy (now why does that phrase bring back such awful memories?), are you also a delusional, incompetent control freak in a panic?

[strake]

Now then Capot, I sense you have some inner rage issues here.

Laugh at them, pity them... then, close your eyes breath deeeeply.... and smile quietly to yourself, knowing that you are at peace and content that you are not given to sweeping generalisations...

Then, you will be ready to leave trains as transportation and join us all in the "Happy Skies"...

"Om mani pan" old son, "Om mani pan"......

[FWOF]

Why does anyone need to use a mobile whilst in the air? Why do people bring laptops to breakfast and lunch? Remember the days when you waited until you actually GOT to work to call people. The majority of calls I hear in the airport are usually "Yes, I'm AT the airport now", followed by "We've got our gate now"., to "They are calling our flight" and then "I'm just getting ON the plane". Of course you then have those 'these-rules-don't-apply-to-me' types who think putting their phone on mute is the same as turning it off, and they continue to text throughout the flight.

No-body is that important that they need to have CONTINUOUS contact with the office/home. If that were true, businesses would have fallen over years ago, when we relied on the post. But they didn't.

[SXB]

Why does anyone need to use a mobile whilst in the air? Why do people bring laptops to breakfast and lunch? Remember the days when you waited until you actually GOT to work to call people. The majority of calls I hear in the airport are usually "Yes, I'm AT the airport now", followed by "We've got our gate now"., to "They are calling our flight" and then "I'm just getting ON the plane". Of course you then have those 'these-rules-don't-apply-to-me' types who think putting their phone on mute is the same as turning it off, and they continue to text throughout the flight.

No-body is that important that they need to have CONTINUOUS contact with the office/home. If that were true, businesses would have fallen over years ago, when we relied on the post. But they didn't.


FWOF
Technology helps us to become more efficient and make better use of our time. Because of technology I'm more productive than I was 10 years ago.

I will often read my emails when I'm having breakfast in a hotel, most of the time I don't have anyone to talk to anyway. Those mails have to be read so it's something I don't have to do later.

As for mobiles on a plane the only circumstance in which I can think when I would use a phone is if I'm going to be late.

Capot
I travel in buisness class all the time and I wouldn't call myself "a self important w****r" What issues do you have ?

[FWOF]

Personally I hate to see laptops at the breakfast table. Clattering away and guffawing into a croissant is not the best of manners in my book. But that's just my opinion.

[SXB]

I would never bring a laptop to either a breakfast or dinner table, a Blackberry is a bit more discreet.

[FWOF]

A blackberry is much better :ok:

[10secondsurvey]

If I am at a meal, and someone starts using a blackberry (or a laptop), I get up and leave. Has nobody got any manners anymore?
Anybody using a laptop or blackberry at breakfast needs to get out more.
As to the notion of phone on planes. god help us all.
Just imagine you settle down on an overnight flight. Ring ring! (or some other even more irritatingly inane ring tone).
If this ever comes to pass, all hell will let loose. If I was having this forced on me, I'd just start singing or whistling very loudly. Any loud-mouthed moron on the phone would soon give up.
Phones on a plane is just asking for in-flight aggro...big time.
Are the managers of airlines really as dumb as they seem??

[SXB]

If I am at a meal, and someone starts using a blackberry (or a laptop), I get up and leave. Has nobody got any manners anymore?
Anybody using a laptop or blackberry at breakfast needs to get out more

I'm not so crass as to use a Blackberry when I'm eating with someone, but if I'm on my own I see nothing wrong with using a BB, just like the guy on the next table chooses to read a newspaper while drinking his coffee.

Also, a lot of it depends on how busy you are and how much available time you have. For me, I have a considerable amount of what I refer to as 'dead time' this is time spent in airports, planes and sat on my own eating in hotels and restaurants. I try to use this time as productively as I can and perform tasks which I'm going to have to do at some point anyway. Reading my emails is a tiresome job and something I don't enjoy because 90% of what I get is the normal collection of arse covering rubbish coupled with the 'for info' mails with 15 page attachments.

Anyway, so next time you see someone using a BB don't just assume they need to get out more. Obviously, I agree that anyone using a BB when eating with someone does need a lesson in manners.

[Mark1234]

Oh deary me!

Sadly (and I wish it were otherwise), for many of us, the 'office' expects us to respond to emails, phone calls and the like pretty much any waking hour (and if you work in a different time zone, some pretty non-waking ones too). It's nothing to do with being (self)important, and has a lot more to do with the modern global economy, and your employer expecting to own your soul. It's not just airline pilots that have it bad!

I'm not eating breakfast with you; if I need to get out my laptop, crackberry or whatever.. well, I'm sorry it offends your sensibilities, but hard luck - how purile of you to get up and leave. Still, I'm not the one going hungry!

You may have been lucky enough to have a 9-5 (plus hour for lunch presumably), I am not. I'd like to be, but it's a bit like paying for type ratings... do it and have a job, or take the moral high ground and the dole.

As for the airline managers being dumb, that they are not - these 'loud mouthed idiots' will generally fly far more, far regularly, and on more expensive tickets than the pedants who are offended. As the saying goes: 'Money talks...'

[FWOF]

Why is it that those who feel they earn more and are better off have the notion that 'these-rules-don't-apply-to-me'. You say money talks? Well mostly it's a crass and pompous language. The nouveau riche are amongst the most pompous and ill mannered bunch I've ever met. It's better to wear your wealth with dignity. Takes me back to the champagny guzzling, Porsche owning 80's.

[TightSlot]

I'm not entirely sure why this thread is proving to be catnip for class-warriors?

Still, whatever...

Please continue without the 'personal' stuff

[PAXboy]

In a bulletin from Priority Pass today they say:
Over 3,000 members responded to our survey on mobile phones and the overwhelming conclusion is that allowing passengers to use mobile phones on board will be a source of great irritation
Almost 9 out of 10 respondents (88%) said they would consider this to be annoying. Although 28% felt very strongly about this issue and advocated a full ban on mobile communications, 57% of the people who answered the survey felt that communications via text or email would be preferable to a complete ban. Only 9% of respondents felt that all usage should be allowed, even within clearly defined time periods.

[Capot]

SXB

Sorry for delay, been away a day and a half.. on First Great Western, One Railway, and Flybe.

You asked I travel in business class all the time and I wouldn't call myself "a self important w****r" What issues do you have ?So do I, and perhaps I am one of those, perhaps not. It's not the class of travel which concerns me, it's people who use their mobiles continuously and loudly instructing their minions to do this or that, or who describe in excruciating detail their latest deals; it's always in "millions" etc etc etc. It's the impossibility of concentrating on somethings else while this is going on that winds me up.

Yesterday the quiet car was full..so one was condemned to the unquiet car. With 2 hours to go, a woman (late 40's) gets on, brisk with hard edges, Dame Edna glasses. She sits down, gets out her computer, spreads her papers all over a table for 4 (there was someone in each of the other 3 seats) , and then uses her mobile to go through a 50++ page document with whoever wrote it, with many criticisms of the language and punctuation on every page, some of which were laughably absurd. She was being loud, rude and unpleasant to the other person, obviously her junior. She can be classed fairly, I believe, as a self-important velvet-tipper. This went on for at least 20 minutes while the carriage cleared around her, with some, including me, going into STD class to get some comparative peace and leaving her at it. She was very obviously a senior manager in a media group which I won't name although she told us, as well as letting us all know that the educational project she runs costs tens of millions, is for the benefit of 147,000 people, and that Nick and Pru, Fiona, Adam and Jeremy should get their fingers out.

She was utterly oblivious to the effect she was having, and indeed to the protests that several people made.

I really dread the onset of that sort of thing in Business on aircraft as well as trains. There's no escape in an aircraft.

If I suffer from uncontrolled rage, as I suppose I sometimes do, it's against people like her. Well, actually, it was controlled, now I think of it. I didn't say anything, or even shoot her as I would have liked. I didn't need to. There were angrier people than me telling her what they thought, as they left.

[Flying_Frisbee]

Budget carrier Ryanair will roll out the OnAir in-flight mobile connectivity service initially across 25 aircraft during the first quarter of next year.
Ryanair is OnAir's full launch customer for the service, which enables passengers to use their mobile phones and other devices such as BlackBerrys in flight.
The supplier has been working to secure the necessary approval from national telecom regulators to support the start of services for its launch customers, a process that has pushed back the launch of such services into next year.
"Our in-flight mobile phone service will be tested on 25 aircraft before the end of March 2008," says Ryanair chief executive Michael O'Leary. He indicates these are likely to be deployed on aircraft operating out of London Stansted.
UK telecom regulators in October launched a six-week consultation on proposals to enable passengers to use their mobile devices on board. French telecom regulators have also now issued an approval to enable Air France, which is one of three carriers to sign up to trials of the OnAir service, to carry out its trial.

From flightglobal.com
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2007/11/08/219250/ryanair-to-roll-out-phone-service-on-25-aircraft-by-first-quarter-of.html

[Mark1234]

Class does not come into it. I'm not 'riche', I'm a minion who goes economy everywhere. I get directed, not do the directing. Those fares are more expensive in that they are short notice.
The money that talks is the company who pays my fare; Cumulatively they spend rather a lot! I'm quite sure if they could have me flight contactable, they'd pay a (bit) extra, maybe change the airline preference - extrapolate that over a number of regular fliers. The point I make (possibly a little flippantly) is that there's an opportunity for the airline managers to differentiate their airline, and they are most definately not daft in doing so. I'd rather have a data connection though, more use, less noise.

Granted there's always the odd idiot such as the marketing agency exec example, however, I fail to understand those why it is so offensive to some that I might have a work conversation on the phone at a normal voice, when they would never dream of complaining should that colleague be sat next to me on the plane/train/whatever, having the same conversation.

[10secondsurvey]

Mark1234

seem like you maybe have the wrong end of the stick regarding my comments.

I travel on business an awful lot - a very frequent flyer, and I use a blackberry. I'm just secure and mature enough not to sit typing E-mails at dinner or breakfast, whilst in company. That is what I was referring to. To me it is rude, whilst in company. You think it's ok.

You know, if I happily obliged, many people would be very happy to have me respond to E-mails 24/7, and never, ever sleep. You make the choice in business to either let work control you, or you control work. Savvy businessmen do the latter.

Mobile phones on a plane- a very bad idea. I'm not at all surprised at the figures from the priority pass survey.

[PAXboy]

I'm not at all surprised at the figures from the priority pass survey.Me either. But how much effect do you think it will have on the accountants?? You know their marketing people will line up a similar number of people to say the opposite! :sad:

[fendant]

Using times on a real airplane ( No LoCo ):

Day Flight: Reading the interesting articles on the plane/ in lounge
Night Flight: Sleep!

Cell Phones on a Plane: NO !
Cell Phones in a lounge: NO !

Frank

I this a saver for the LoCo's business model, so be it.

[10secondsurvey]

Can flying really get any worse?

[TightSlot]

Can flying really get any worse?

Yes

In the future the world will have 2 airlines left: Ryanair & Emirates. Both will have mobile phones

[Mark1234]

You're obviously luckier or better placed than me, I don't have the option of not being available - not if I want to keep/progress in the job. I agree it's not the height of manners, but nor should it be that offensive, you don't know me from adam, so what does it matter to you if I am having breakfast with my laptop?

In any case, I seem to be in the minority, so I shall shut up!

[PAXboy]

Mark1234 I think it is all about volume. I make phone calls when I am on a train, or sitting in the departure/arrival lounge but it is the voice levels that annoy. Doubtless you keep your business to yourself.

Earlier in the thread, I gave the usual reason for people speaking too loudly when using a mobile but some seem to do it for self aggrandisement. If the call is kept discrete, I would not mind but you just know that you are going to land up sitting next to @etc.. :ugh:

[bealine]

Of course, there's also a very good reason why no mobile phones should be allowed into an airport at all!
http://67.19.222.106/inboxer/video/cellgun.mpg

http://www.safetytechnology.com/cellphonestungun.htm

[Flying_Frisbee]

I'm still not clear what the objections are, judging by the posts here. The 2 main complaints seem to be volume or content. Either of which could be applicable to 2 passengers sitting next to you having a face to face conversation.
As for people using laptops or blackberry at breakfast, fair enough if it's in your company, although even then, in certain circumstances, say business trips, it might be unavoidable. But if someone else doing it annoys you, I sugget you need to get out of the other side of bed in the mornings!
Technical issues are another matter, but they've hardly been touched on yet in the thread.
I wonder if the internet had been available 100 years ago, would be we reading a thread about how intrusive Mr Graham-Bell's invention was going to be?

[Capot]

Either of which could be applicable to 2 passengers sitting next to you having a face to face conversation

Ah yes, the old argument always used by mobile phone proponents, or rather, since we all use them, proponents of using them intrusively.

The problem is that 2 people having a conversation tend to speak quietly, not least to prevent ear-wigging on what might be a business chat.

A mobile phone user invariably shouts, for reasons explained in the thread.

Try, next time you're in a train, walking down the aisle when someone is using a phone, to see how far the sound reaches. Then do the same with two people, side-by-side, talking to each other.

What always astonishes me is what people are prepared to reveal about themselves, their affairs and their businesses while using a phone in a train.

Several years ago I was on the way with a colleague to a tenderers' beauty contest for a multi-million MoD contract. Across the aisle was someone evidently going to the same thing. During the 3-hour journey he told me, loudly and clearly, all the relevant details of his bid as he discussed it with his MD and FD using his mobile. I took notes, my colleague read The Times. At the meeting he did not recognise us, or if he did gave a good impression of not doing so.

So I admit that other people's phone habits are not all to the bad.

[EastMids]

I don't look forward to cellphones being useable on aeroplanes at all. As a regular air [and rail] traveller, at present I regard a flight is part of my "downtime" when I can legitimately have some peace and quiet away from the phone. Likewise, the Midland Mainline is a wonderful railway - the mobile reception can be so flakey particularly south of Leicester that again I can come close to legitimately abandoning the cellphone for an hour or two. And for similar reasons the "no cellphones in cars except with a hand-free" law is excellent - whilst my employer would pay for a hand-free kit, I have no intention of pushing to have one and as yet haven't been forced to do so. I look at it this way - if I have to get up at stupid-o'clock to get a flight (or a train, or drive a fair distance), and get back late into what in some respects I regard as my own time, then I'm going to use the uncontactable time to get a little peace and quiet. I admit that data would sometimes be useful in the air and in particular on longer flights, just as it was last week when I tried GNER for the first time, but voice is one step too far for me to personally want to use it. I shall therefore avoid airlines that offer cellphone use in flight, not because I'd get annoyed by people shouting into phones (although I would, actually) but just so that I can continue to have my uncontactable time whilst sipping a G&T at leasure.

A

[Capot]

Now there's a difference; I use a hands-free phone in the car a great deal, especially on long trips. It's an ideal time to catch up, when you cannot do anything else apart from drive. I'm self-employed, so taking time out from an employer's business is not an option.

Moreover it's the best way I know to stay alert.

[arcs'n'sparcs]

I think the main problem with some mobile phone conversations is the fact that most people, subconciously, fall into the "personal conversation" mode of speaking. They "switch off" to the reality that they aren't in the same room having a private conversation with the person on the other end of the phone and as a consequence tend to talk at the levels they would if they were. This, basically, is a stupid person regardless of their educational background. Of course, there are those who WANT the world to know how busy/important/rich/powerful etc ad nauseum they are; these are the people who should have said cellphone forcibly inserted into very private parts of their anatomy, preferably wrapped in barbed wire first. For me, I don't mind mobiles on a/c as long as the usage of such can be conducted in a discreet manner; perhaps defining certain block areas where they can and can't be used in the manner of the old smoking/non-smoking segregation? Obviously without the associated stench!

[10secondsurvey]

Paxboy

I noted your experience in telecomms, so do not wish to criticise, but just ask a dumb telecomms question.

My understanding of why people talk more louldy on mobiles ,is due to a fundamental difference, between 'traditional' phones and mobiles. In traditional handsets (for landlines), the telephone circuit actually feeds back the sound of your voice in to the receieving speaker on your handset, so you actually hear your own voice in your own handset. Mobile phones on the other hand, do not have this feedback circuit, and the person speaking therefore cannot hear their own voice. This is why people talking on a mobile (as opposed to a landline), are so oblivious of how loud they are talking. This is why they are a bad idea on aircraft.

Or is this just an urban myth??

Either way, mobile phone used near me on a plane, will have me whistling loudly, or maybe even singing(badly). I'm surprised cabin crew unions are not fighting this, due to the grief it will cause them, sorting out the inevitable multiple disputes, after chit chatty pax on the phone get told by adjacent pax to 'shut the f*** up'.