B1+B2

[JSaeroengineer]

Hi All,
Does anyone here have both a B1 and B2 License?
Or is that not possible/permitted?
Cheers
JS

[Golden Rivet]

I do.

It's permitted to have both a B1 and B2 licence. Whether your Part 145 organisation will allow you to hold both sets of approvals is another matter.

[JSaeroengineer]

Oh right...
Are you highly "wanted" for having both a B1 and B2?
I'm thinking of attempting to get both, and was wondering if it means more companies are after you than just having a B1/B2?
thanks a lot
JS

[Mr.Brown]

Yes it is possible and there are plenty across europe with both, however you would of course require both B1 and B2 type courses.
Thats alot of eggs in one basket for companies if you ever decide to leave.

[Nelli]

I have both B1 and B2 for Airbus 320-family, for 340 only B1.

[boeing_eng]

Interesting.....

Not specifically directed at you, but can anyone with a full B1/B2 honestly say they are equally happy with a complex structural repair and an involved electrical defect!!??

Hmmmm!

[Techman]

can anyone with a full B1/B2 honestly say they are equally happy with a complex structural repair and an involved electrical defect!!??
The question assumes that anyone with a B1 can. Which, as we all know, is not the case.

[oligoe]

I hold both B1 and B2 on a few types. Like a few guys in my company.
But, yes, people are rarely 100 % performent in both subjects.
I am for exemple 100 % b2, but still perform routine B1 work. If it comes to some complexe really B1 jobs, then I always ask for some advice from my B1 colleges. You just have to know your limits. It is almost impossible to know everything.

regards,

og

[Romulus]

From an employers perspective a holder of both a B1 and B2 is particularly interesting. Lots of advantages but only if the person is truly capable in both fields and has the time to apply both skills on a job.

Given Australia is only just moving this way I'd be interested in hearing experiences of how this both has and hasn't worked in practice.

[Swedish Steve]

When B1 and B2 was invented, LAEs in Scandinavia who had a full ICAO licence were awarded both. They got B1 and B2.
Sorry but this irks me because as a Brit working in Sweden my licence was converted to a B1-1 (and C actually but I never use that).
But when it is time to renew their licence the Swedes have trouble because although they hold B1 and B2 they are mostly split into A and C and Avionics like the rest of us. The A and C guys who try not to touch the electrics are now being asked for worksheets to prove they have used all the special tools they have never seen since they were apprentices, and the avionics specialists must show when they last rigged flying controls and changed an engine.
So depends on your licensing authority, it can be difficult to hold B1 and B2 if you work on heavy jets, and keep up your involvement in all areas.

[old,not bold]

I'm hearing about combined B1/B2 type rating courses....any views on that, in the context of this thread or otherwise?

[mono]

Most courses these days are FULL B1 with add ons for the engine and avionics.

this means that B1's and B2's can sit the airframe section of the course then move on to either the engine or avionics section according to trade.

Full B1/B2's could sit both add ons and have a full B1/B2 for the relevant type.

[Janski]

In some positions you need both B1 and B2. Me for example maintaining a twin engine full glasscockpit helicopter by myself at a linestation need both to be able to sign off loggbook remarks and performe sceduled maintenance. That doesn`t mean I know the avionics by heart but I`m certified to work accordin to the manuals. I dont do sheet metal work either but I make sure structural work is performed IAW MM and SRM and do the CRS when the sheetmetal guys are finished.

[Beeline]

My advice, concentrate on what your good on, I have both unrestricted licences B1 and B2, but specialising in full B1 work including AV and X electrics,

The aircraft is a massive complex machine and jack of all trades master of none does not incorporate safety!! Having multiple aircraft on your licence can be hard enough, I can be called up to the flight deck on three different types in an hour.

At the end of the day if someone is happy signing for something they have no competance in, more fool them. :D

[wigglyamp]

A further slant on the Part 66 license.
I held a full avionic BCAR and when I converted to Part 66, the CAA had to give me a B1 as well as B2 so I could continue to certify electrics. My B1 has two restrictions - no airframe, no engines!

[Romulus]

I have been told that the A380 course that has been approved by CASA for QF's ops is a combined B1/B2 course.

I think Romulus is probably in a position to give a definite answer pertaining to the A380?

I am told this is correct.

[Captain Planet]

Guys that are involved in airside line maintanance are usually dual qualified,it helps it you're going for that kind of job especially if you're working with T/P's.

CP.

[Just an Engineer]

IMHO it’s sad to say that the whole dual B1 and B2 is direct consequence of the visible drop in engineering standards over the past 20 years or so (then having dual qualifications was very unusual) with the rot starting with the loss of the aural exam.

With the aural woe betide anyone who went in without a thorough knowledge of all the fundamentals. You would probably be found out and sent packing quite quickly….Now with the multi-choice modules (which are in itself and mockery to the original full syllabus exams you had to endure) you can skim learn the questions and with a lot less background revision, pass. And even if you fail a module take it again no problem….!.With no end aural there is no incentive to do any in-depth learning of the entire syllabus

I have seen it happen quite a few times now to know this is how it is done….

The consequence of this as somebody else has stated in the thread is that very rarely is somebody actually proficient in both disciplines (ability to sign is not counted)

The sad thing is while people are doing dual licences for maybe their own markability they are also shooting the whole profession in the foot as it is allowing the industry too say, ‘hey this is a good thing why employ two engineers when we can employ one?!’…..The end result is that people are simply reducing the overall engineering job pool required. The proof is in the adverts. I have seen quite a few contract adverts that require specifically a dual traded engineer only. That would have been however two jobs years ago…..:-( And do you get double the pay !!! ???

How long is it going to be before the minimum standard to get a normal Licenced engineer’s job will be full B1/B2 ? And it will come eventually the beancounters will see to that - people complain about pay now, what about doubling the workload…?

[Greeny9]

'aural'!!!!!!!!

You were lucky. When I did my BCAR exams I had a 'oral' exams. That meant I had to do the talking. I presume an 'aural' exam involves a lot of listening.

Prior to converting to Pt66 I had UK BCAR A,C,X (elec, Inst, AP), R,R.

Now holding a full B1 B2, not getting double pay but getting more than my colleagues with either. I think that as long as an individual knows his knowledge boundaries and skills, I can't see what is wrong with holding both.

Nobody knows everything!!!

[oligoe]

It is very interesting for B2s to hold also a B1. I am B1B2 on 2 A/C types but
AB2 only on another one. We had an audit from our quality department the other day we've been all amazed how narrow the scope for release is for B2s(ATA 22 23 24 31 34 45 only).
In my company most of the trouble shootings are performed by B2s. Most of the B1s have no idea about capacitive fuel indication systems for exemple...we most of the time perfom T/S on APUs, fire detection systems etc...
The jobs a B1 can't release are quite rare.

regards,

og

[Swedish Steve]

Quote
I'm hearing about combined B1/B2 type rating courses....any views on that, in the context of this thread or otherwise?

The BA B777 course is a B1 course. For a B2 course they take some bits out of it and make it shorter. So the whole course is B1/B2.
I work on a small line station. Only Daily checks and defects. I have a converted AML which is B1-1. Not even full B1. Only once in the last twenty years have I had to get a B2 guy in to help me. Working on modern jets with BITE and no real test equipment, you can stay legal. On any modern jet transport from B757 onwards you can do an autopilot test sitting in the flightdeck, with no test equipment except the little box of switches on B757/B767.
I think the main point is, if you want to work away from main base, get a B1.

[Just an Engineer]

You were lucky. When I did my BCAR exams I had an 'oral' exams.
Now holding a full B1 B2, not getting double pay but getting more than my colleagues with either. I think that as long as an individual knows his knowledge boundaries and skills, I can't see what is wrong with holding both.
Nobody knows everything!!!

Spelling lesson accepted :-)

Hmm on your main point I don’t think I stated anywhere that I opposed holding both providing the required knowledge has been learnt. What I disagree with is the current (seemingly) acceleration of people holding dual where the second licence is merely held/taken to aid there own markability/background knowledge etc.. This has only been made possible by the reduction in standards of the current licensing system. It was certainly possible with the old system however it was a lot harder work (and time) learning the syllabus etc..The end result was that you had thorough grounding in your subject

To come back to a point raised by another poster

I hold both B1 and B2 on a few types. Like a few guys in my company.But, yes, people are rarely 100 % performent in both subjects.
I am for example 100 % b2, but still perform routine B1 work. If it comes to some complexes really B1 jobs, then I always ask for some advice from my B1 colleges. You just have to know your limits. It is almost impossible to know everything.

This is all good and well however if we get to a point where there are only two people on a shift where both are B2 biased (however hold B1) where is he going to turn to for the knowledge if he is required to carry a ‘complex job’ (to quote) ? I suppose they could both say they don’t have the required knowledge and skills to carry out the job, however I suspect they would both be looked at very dimly when the aircraft is out on service in the morning at 06.00 with two supposed B1 approvals on shift

I think to say that you only sign what is within your knowledge boundaries is a bit of a cop out as its only fair for an employer to expect that, within reason, if you hold both approvals (and are being paid as such) you should be able to carry out vast majority of jobs whether large or small within each respective trade. Of course I am not advocating signing out of your experience range only that a lot of people with a second trade rarely try to fully cover both bases to the same efficiency

And the question of reducing job pool ? (Not answered) At the end of the day we are only cutting our own industry down in the long term….

[Bobcanfixit]

It sounds like some may struggle with half the Aircraft, fine, remain "Just an Engineer".

With the ever merging technology of the newer types, the line between B1 and B2 is closing. You may/will be a little weaker in your "new" trade, but everyone has to start somewhere.

Over a new LAME, you will however have had many years experience in systems, procedures, rules/regs etc etc to apply to the other half. You can't be in two places at once, you won't get double the pay, but you will eventually be twice the Engineer!

You need to market and challenge yourself or be happy to slip behind, just don't :{:{ about it!