Trans-Oz Bonanza flight ends in tears!

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

Jabawocky, SWMBO and I flew from YBTL across to YPJT via YBMA, YBAS, YAYE and YLEO in the V35B last week - great trip, apart from the 40 kt headwinds between The Rock and Leonora.

Went to depart for Esperence today, only to find to my horror that both , yes BOTH, fuel tanks are leaking - presumably due to fuel bladder failure.

What's the chance?

When at home base and not flying the aeroplane is always hangared - with tanks full.

Absolutely no signs of leaks prior to the pre-flight today, although I had commented on an occasssional momentary whiff of fuel on leveling out TOC.

So the FTDK is stuck at Jandakot awaiting a couple of new bladders and we are on Qantas back home.

The 1991 A36 that is the subject of another thread is looking much better to me!

Dr :8

[HappyJack260]

So if you go for the newer A36 Bonanza will you become STDK (straight tail doctor killer)?

[Jet_A_Knight]

Better found on the ground, Doc.:ok:

[tinpis]

Hah..I couldnt even afford to pay for the gas to fill the tanks..:hmm:

[Chimbu chuckles]

Both my fuel cells let go within a few mths about 5+ years ago...turned out they'd been part of a batch of dud fuel cells installed and subsequently recalled, because they were dangerous, about 10+ yrs before...somehow mine had been overlooked:hmm: and finally let go 3 yrs after I bought the aircraft.

[Jamair]

Want someone to go fetch it for you??:E:E

I had a B55 on crosshire a coupla years ago and the first time I filled the tanks the left one started dripping - immediately adjacent the exhaust stack! Rang the owner - 'Oh yeah, been like that for a while, just never fill the tanks above 1/2 and she'll be right".....

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

Here is the sight that greeted me on Saturday morning!

http://www.fototime.com/FE7CAA4F3A2E626/standard.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/2176DFEDE304270/standard.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/B20CCA414698D79/standard.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/A69A81FBBB5DF78/standard.jpg

Dr :8

[MACH082]

Hey Dr, you live up near darwin dont you? i am presently in perth and want to head up to darwin to poke around for a new twin job. If you want a driver, i can drive it up there for you! i have about 150 hours on the bo... pm me if you want to talk.

[Jabawocky]

Is Darwhine in North Qld now?:}

Get in the 'Q'........not enough seats for the contenders in a Bo!

J

[BEACH KING]

FTDK, expect to do a fuel cell every 6 to 8 years. Funnily enough the warranty on the cells is 5 years. I have replaced 4 during the time I have owned my Bo, two fairly recently. They are a pain in the arse to change and fail at the most inconvenient time and places. One of the small disadvantages of flying a Bonanza!

Look on the bright side... at least you didn't have to pay for it!:O

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

Beachy!

Yes, apparently they are just 6 years old.

It would be a bit more convenient if they didn't both go at the same time. I could have hobbled home on one tank.

Jobs being done as we speak. Off to collect it in a week or so.

Is it particularly a Bonanza issue? I have previously had leaking fuel cells in C185, PA23, and C402.

Cheers

Dr :8

[Mr.Buzzy]

Silly question I know but what is that wirelocked bit? Is it left hand thread?

bbbbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzbbbbbbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzz

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

Buzz

That's a fuel drain. The type you stick the pointy thing into!

Don't know why its wire-locked.

Dr :8

[Blue Sky Baron]

Most likely wire locked to prevent ham fisted pilots:ugh: shoving the fuel drain up into the tank cavity, thus weakening the tank around the area of the fuel drain.:cool:
BSB :ok:

[BEACH KING]

Yeah FDTK, I don't know if its just a Bonanza thing or not. A mate has a Baron and he has only done one cell in 10 years! It has two cells per wing though.

Three of the 4 cells that have failed on me have all done so at pretty much the same spot near the fuel outlet teat, where it joins the steel (aluminium?) fuel line. My Lame seemed to think it could be caused by hornets nests (the mungrel bastards) clogging up the vent and causing the cell to suck together pulling on the fixed point of the fuel line. I check the vents very closely with a bit of wire during the pre-flight though, and often find them there and remove them, so I don't know if that is the cause. If the vent is blocked in flight you often find the fuel gauge won't show lower than about half full (when it actually is) and when refuelling the bottom of the cell will ride up and be very close to the fuel cap hole. Blocked vents can be a big problem in flight. I remember reading a couple of incident reports where a blocked vent caused the cell to suck together as fuel burned off and the fuel drain snagged on the lower wing skin and pulled it out, resulting in the whole tank draining overboard

As Norm Colvin says in his Bonanza Bible, keep the tanks as full as possible while on the ground to prolong fuel cell life

[bushy]

I remember flying a Chieftain and watching the fuel gage increasing from half full towards the full mark as we flew along. I snagged the fuel gage on the MR, and the engineers could not find any fault.
Next time I flew it the same thing happened and once again the engineers could not find anything wrong with the aeroplane. They were looking strangely at me.
Next time it happened I landed and went straight to the fuel filler cap, and found evidence of a definite suction when I removed it. There was suction distorting the fuel cell gradually as we flew along and lifting the float to increase the reading. The filler cap is in a low pressure area. After the aeroplane had stood for a while, the pressure equalised, and the fault was gone. They told me they fixed it by replacing the seal on the fuel filler cap. (I had already asked them to check the fuel tank vents, and they said "no fault".)
The fuel cell was serviceable.
I prefer solid fuel tanks.

[VH-XXX]

"It would be a bit more convenient if they didn't both go at the same time. I could have hobbled home on one tank."

Did they REALLY go at the "same" time...

[Jabawocky]

Gooday XXX

They probably did so to speak. The wings were stain free before we left, the fuel tanks were filled Wed lunch time, by Sat morning about 3" less under the filler.

We suspect that the clip studs that hold the tank to the top of the cavity may have pulled away a bit from the bladder, perrished a bit and fragile. We experienced a fair bit of moderate turbulene the day and morning before the refuel, so this is possibly how it happened.

Breathers are an interesting point to be careful of, although we did not experience those symptoms.

J:ok:

PS......no probs like that in the Jab hey XXX

[Tmbstory]

Bushy

On one occasion, in a straight tail Cessna 172, I experienced a little rough running. On looking around I noticed that the fuel drain valve on the left tank was disappearing up into the wing. I opened the window, pressed and held the valve up, the air went in, the engine returned to correct operation.

The Engineers fixed the wasps and had to change the tank due to distortion.

We live and learn.

Tmb

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

VH-XXX

Previous Monday to Saturday: Aircraft having 100 hrly including wing bolt torque check (note wing bolts in photos above) and gear retraction checks - no leaks

Sunday - no leaks
Monday - no leaks
Tuesday - no leaks
Wednesday - no leaks
Saturday - both tanks leaking.

So how would you describe it?

Dr :8

[VH-XXX]

Me thinks Jabawocky punched his biro in there to devalue your aircraft and make you an offer because he loves it so much. He thinks so highly of it that he's been posting all over other forums about how good it was going away with you.

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

"he's been posting all over other forums about how good it was going away with you"

Yeah, I get that!

I think it has something to do with my sparkling personality!

Dr :8

[Chimbu chuckles]

Nah...it was definately the aeroplane:}:ok:

You think you got agro...my A36 paint job and interior just turned into a ground up restoration:uhoh:

But I am actually REALLY excited about it....gonna be spending most of my 5 weeks leave in the hangar at YRED working on her under supervision.

She will be one of the best A36s in the country when she emerges in the new year.:ok::ok:

[Defenestrator]

...my A36 paint job and interior just turned into a ground up restoration.

Why? Something happen to her Chuck?

D

[Desert Flower]

Number one cause of both fuel cells springing a leak together? Probably a ham fisted refueller shoving the nozzle further into the tank than what it should be, & nicking the bladder. FTDK, I apologise in advance for that comment if you refuelled the Bo yourself!

DF.

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

DF

Apology accepted!

You are of course correct - that is a possibility, however, I refuelled the aircraft.

Its actually difficult to shove the nozzle into the tanks on this Bo cause it has locking fuel caps that have a smaller hole than the standard opening on Bonanza/Baron tanks - a bit like the restriction in the fuel pipe of newer cars that only let you fill them with the narrow nozzle on unleaded pumps.

So in this case I am confident that that is not the cause.

Cheers

Dr :cool:

[Desert Flower]

Its acually difficult to shove the nozzle into the tanks on this Bo cause it has locking fuel caps that have a smaller hole than the standard opening on Bonanza/Baron tanks - a bit like the restriction in the fuel pipe of newer cars that only let you fill them with the narrow nozzle on unleaded pumps.

FTDK, I am glad to hear that your Bo's got the smaller openings. That then reduces an even greater hazard to all piston engined aircraft - the accidental misfuelling with Jet A1.

DF.

[Jabawocky]

The level only dropped a few inches and suggests the leak is at a point further in towards the fuselage at the top of the tank.

So it holds say 3/4 fuel maybe, as best we can tell. If the tank was drilled by a fuel nozzle you would expect the level to drop to that point.

J

[Desert Flower]

While we're on the subject of Bo's, I believe there is an AGM of the Australian Bonanza Society being held in Renmark this weekend. It's a pity it wasn't on last weekend when I was in town, I would have gone to have a look at all the Bo's (& a few Barons apparently) lined up! :{

DF.

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

Ahhhhh, somehow I don't think ABS is my kinda scene!

Dr :8

[jamsquat]

"Ahhhhh, somehow I don't think ABS is my kinda scene!"

Heaps of Beech freaks crapping on about how good Bonanza's are. Sounds like a FTDK wet dream!!!! :ok:

JS

[DeRated]

Suggestion,
If they both went at the same co-incidental time........ and you've been sitting on the ground for a while out in the sticks (Leonora, etc)......

Check the fuel vents for wasp nests, right up inside. (takes them about 10 minutes..... to find the spot and build)

Had a fuel leak in a Navajo years ago, after refuelling to full tanks, pushed out around the neck seal as the fuel warmed up, found the drain next to the exhaust stub. Ignited the vapour, into the wing space..........

That was in Hobart, the nest belonged to a wasp only found in Qld where the aircraft had resided many years before........

[Mr.Buzzy]

Okie doke, figured it was a fuel drain but am still a little confused about the wirelocking....take a close look.

bbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzbbbbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Peter Fanelli]

Wirelocking appears to be the wrong way.

[titenup]

Quote

"Had a fuel leak in a Navajo years ago, after refuelling to full tanks, pushed out around the neck seal as the fuel warmed up, found the drain next to the exhaust stub. Ignited the vapour, into the wing space..........

That was in Hobart, the nest belonged to a wasp only found in Qld where the aircraft had resided many years before........ "

Reminds me, also many years ago, also in Hobart - Pilik with fuel leak asked njuner - was advised "fix b4 fly" - pilik knew better - started up, comenced taxi, turned on strobes.........- the rest of the wing is history.

And for this story - I admire the cunning of that wasp, to wait so long before finally deciding to build the nest.

[Blue Sky Baron]

Ok Forky, I'll bite.

Why don't you think the ABS is for you? Are you too good?

BSB

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

"Are you too good?"

Goes without saying BSB (!) - but that is not the issue in this instance.

Probably not something that should be posted on the web, but buy me beer sometime and I will give you my reasons.

Dr :8

PS: Furthermore, I am an INTP (MBTI Personality Type) - we tend to be loners!

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

Just booked to Perth online with the Rat - Yes, going to retrieve the FTDK.

TL - BN - PH cheapest fare was $380.

but interestingly BN - PH cheapest fare was also $380.

so TL - BN obviously costs the Rat nothing to operate !!!

Good for me, I guess, but seems ridiculous none-the-less!

Dr :8

[Jabawocky]

I bet I can't book the TL-BN sector for $0 then ??

I hope its not one of the grubby old foreign 767's eiether!:uhoh: They even make the local ones look good!

J

[Howard Hughes]

Fussy lot you North Queenslanders...;)

[Jabawocky]

And us southern Qld'ers too I might add.:ok:

J

[Howard Hughes]

Sorry to lump you in with 'that lot' Jabba!

PS: I just said I was sorry, but of course it wasn't 'an apology'...;)

[Jabawocky]

oooohhhhhh...........clever and cutting response there old mate!:ok:

Sharp wit I see!

I guess after the last PM from you with certain arrivals......I will be able to laugh last in a week or two.....:E:E

J:ok:

[Pedota]

Back to something of the original thread, a couple of years ago I delivered a Cutlass from Melbourne to Perth for a friend. My route took me to Whyalla then Ceduna overnight. The next morning I flew to Caiguna, Esperance and then Jandakot. It was one of the best flights I have ever done . . . I had a real sense of achievement and enjoyed some of the most interesting scenery in Australia. Ceduna is in a beautiful spot, the cliffs along the Great Australian Bight are something to behold and the water and beaches around Esperance are simply stunning.

And everyone I met along the way was super helpful . . . good luck in getting the aircraft sorted out.

Cheers

Pedota

[vh_ajm]

I noticed a similar thing a few weeks ago.

ADL-PER-BME cost the same as ADL-BME or PER-BME. Of course if you booked them seperately it was 2 x ADL-PER-BME fare.

Ah well.

AJM

[wrongwayaround]

Well.... if you think about it......

for a business to earn anything greater than zero dollars.... is better than making no dollars at all :ok:

[Mr. Hat]

what happened to the FTDK?

[Wanderin_dave]

Surely you are kidding Mr Hat?

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=298812

[Skystar320]

Incidentally how much did it cost you for your 100hrly

[Jabawocky]

Skystar320

look here

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?p=3661982&highlight=hourly+cost+%243000#post3661982

J:ok:

[wish2bflying]

FTDK, I wanted to thank you for posting the pictures. Just yesterday I went to preflight an a/c on an instructional sortie and discovered the same type of green stain at the wing root, slightly wet. Nowhere near as much as in your pictures, but significant enough for the engineer to confirm it and U/S the aircraft immediately for further inspection. I can't say I had ever taken such close notice before, and it's quite possible I've gone flying in other aircraft with a similar stain without even realising what I was doing, but I immediately recognised it because I'd only just been browsing this thread over the weekend.

So ... cheers! :ok:

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

Pleased2BofService :ok:

Dr :8

[Jabawocky]

Ahhhhhh HANG ON

Credit to the silly mug lying on the ground taking photo's with fuel dripping on him and his camera please!:eek:

J:}

[notmyC150v2]

Sorry Jabby but it is accepted practice that management gets the kudos. Co-pilots only get acknowledged if the pictures were blurry. :p:p:p

[gaunty]

Hmmm looked out my office window at Perth Airport the other day and there parked in front of or near Hawkers hangar was a V35, "thinks to myself" I wonder if that is the FTDK, started to go have a look then usual aviation crisis intervened.
If I'd a known would have been good for a beer at least.:cool:

[Richo]

"Theres another one of those self satisfying (FTDK)Doors' how depressing"

Said Marvin

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

OK, latest update for anyone interested in the on-going saga of the FTDK.

Leaky bladders - NOT. Leaky gaskets are to blame apparently. Not exactly sure at this stage which gaskets.

Left tank removed - judged to be in excellent condition (6 yrs old), pressure tested and put back with new gaskets etc. Offending gaskets replaced in right tank.

FTDK gassed up, ground run, checked for leaks - and declared to be fixed.

Me and me mate Jaba are off this weekend to retrieve it from the wild west!

Now if only that 40 kt westerly is still blowing - we should be back in NQ in about 10 hrs.

Dr :8

[Peter Fanelli]

Make sure they fixed that safety (lock) wiring.

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

Leaky fuel drain gaskets were the problem. Still pretty unusual that sides would go at the same time - but there you go!

The FTDK is currently tied down at Coober Pedy after a great flight along the Bight - on our way back to the wilds of NQ.

Dr :8

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

The saga ended today when the FTDK touched down back home in NQ after setting a new record (22 days 90 min !) for the double crossing of the continent by a white 1977 Bonanza V35B with maroon trim, flown by a mad Dr and his Jabiru loving mate! :ok:

Dr :8

[tipsy2]

Hey Doc, I saw one of those funny Vee tailed thingies at MCY this morning, wasn't you by any chance..........................

tipsy
:=

[Desert Flower]

by a white 1977 Bonanza V35B

Hmmm, that's odd - according to my checks there are no 1977 Queensland based V35B's on the register. Or have they stuffed up?

DF.

[Jabawocky]

Doesnot mean its not registered in a different place....think about that for a bit.

Not at MCY this morning, but LRE perhaps!

Another fine night out at the Albert Park indeed!

Good to see some rain has fallen in tht region too!

J:ok:

[Desert Flower]

Doesnot mean its not registered in a different place....think about that for a bit
Yes I did after I posted that, so now I know the rego! ;)

DF.