sick pax on 777

[hassel]

Has anyone noticed an increase in sick/fainting pax on 777?. I know there has been a bit in the papers but looking for horses mouth experience.

[ExSimGuy]

last time I was sick in a plane was in a 320 after 7 hours between sectors in the airport bar http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/tongue.gif

(only jesting :)
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[Flighttime]

I have heard of a few instances of this. They have all been on fly by wire jets. A330 has this problem as well and I think both Boeing and Airbus have denied any known cause. If I remember rightly, BA had a full out investigation with Boeing when the 777 was first introduced. The problem was noticed more on night flights after pax had been asleep. But some Cabin Crew have experianced this problem as well.

[paddle]

This seems to be an ongoing problem, with no-one being able to give answers as to why is is happening. Personal experience is only on the 777 (not the airbus) and usually when pax are flying from the UK all the way to Australia without a break, which many of them do. I would be interested to hear of others experiences.

[Bandit_70]

I think the Boeing777 is "fly by light" using fibre optic cables not "fly by wire", correct me if i'm wrong.

It's fly by wire, Bandit. Fly by light hasn't been fully developed yet to the best of my knowledge.

Sick Squid, in former 777 pilot role...

Edit rather than reply is to not hijack the thread.

[This message has been edited by Sick Squid (edited 28 April 2001).]

[Dimsim]

I very nearly fainted two years ago as pax on BA 777 night flight to Gulf. I'd been asleep across row of three seats about 8 rows forward of aft galley (very empty flight). Woke up feeling very hot and went to toilet. Nearly passed out in toilet so came out and plonked myself on a crew seat where a very nice BA hostie took care of me with a nice sugary hot tea.

[Birds2perches]

I've had exactly the same experience as Dimsim. I don't ever suffer from any form or travel sickness. It was a night flight, I had not no reason to feel sick, but all of a sudden, felt really faint and ill. Before I knew it I was in the loo being sick! (777)

[160to4DME]

Interesting topic this one.

I've travelled as SLF 5 times this year on Delta's 777 MAN-ATL-MAN.

On 3 of these flights someone has passed out and there has been a PA for medical assistance.

On most of these flights, I myself have felt uncomfortable, nauseous and dry mouthed, and have always deplaned with a splitting headache......and it's not the cheap wine !

Is this a genuine aircraft problem, or is it all to do with economics and the amount of recirculated air ?

[hassel]

Thanks for replies so far. This does seem to be an on going problem when will it be recognised?
Hassel

[pdc7]

its caused by a prob with the circulation of air in the cabin and the over sensitive correction of the autopilot meaning that the aircraft never flys straight. ba are sorting the prob out on theres

[hassel]

Back on top because my Father had a problem on a 777 night flight and looking for more pax with similar ie waking up feeling unwell and then passing out. Cup of coffee back to seat no problem. Checked out with GP all ok.
If this is a problem where were the pax seated ar is it random.
Hassel
Would Boeing like to comment?

[Sick Squid]

My personal opinion as someone who spent almost 4 years flying the 777 until recently is that the cabin air thing may not be the whole story. Now, since this is now an emerging major public issue, it would be nice to know if Boeing had had a problem like this in mind when they fitted the ionisers in the air system. I'll leave that there....

My feeling is that the main problem is in the actual logic that controls the fly-by-wire system. It is designed as part of its role to constantly make small corrections to the flying surfaces to maintain the most efficient angle of attack for the current aircraft configuration and ambient conditions. This seems to translate, in the cruise, to an almost (or actually) subliminal oscillation of the tail in an oval, or figure of 8 manner. In some people my feeling is this may be what induces motion sickness. I do feel the cabin-air recirculation is a Red Herring on this one.

Either way, it should not be swept under the carpet, but I would err on the side of control system programming logic first, before any other cause. Costs a lot of money to rewrite millions of lines of code, and then, as that code is central to the operation of the aircraft, it would then have to be re-certified, I think. Not the cheapest option, that one.

Personal opinion, based on experience as a line pilot, nothing more. Pinch your salt accordingly.

£6



[This message has been edited by Sick Squid (edited 06 May 2001).]

[kench]

Having just come home from GRU on 777. Noticed that they do somewhat shimmy around. The fronts fine but the back end is darn right uncomfortable. The movement is excessive and turbulence is more apparent. Prefer a nice big four engined heavy. Much nicer motion.Previous EM with ref to software and Boeing investigating the problem is true. They are.

[flyblue]

I am on my 3rd year of flying mostly 777, on two different airlines. Never it happened to me to feel anything strange. Never it happened to me to have a pax feeling unwell, apart of the usual gastroenteritis or indigestion.
I'd rather say that I feel better after flying 777 than any other AC (maybe because of its nice bunks :) ).
What I have been trying to understand if it is a mass suggestion or...well, the world is split between Airbus and Boeing...where do you belong to???

[rubberjungle]

I took a digital humidity gauge on a flt to YYZ last week. In the climb it rapidly dropped, and settled down in the cruise at 7% relative humidity. We had close to 200 pax both ways and 2 different 777's.
I found this to be much lower than I would have guessed at. At home it reads about 55-75% depending upon how damp the weather is. A Canadian government health site recommends a humidifier in the home if it drops below 30% as this is the level below which health starts to suffer.
As an aside with a cabin alt of 8000' blood oxygen saturation will be 92% at best as apposed to 98-99 at sea level.
The 777 autopilot can be eager to wind on bank (roll) if we get a direct routing requiring a change of heading with the next waypoint close by, as it draws the new course on the map then cranks on the bank to achieve it. Switching from lateral nav to heading prevents this but you then have to switch back to lnav once on course.

[catswhisker]

The official line / admission from the World's Worst is much as in Rubberj's last para. Plus the fact that the thing just doesn't balance in turns.
They've also carried out an extensive survey (i.e Spent millions)which revealed that another major cause of "queasiness" is that, while the cabin air on, say, a 747 whistles in at face level from the outboard side, in the Cripple-7 it's circulated the other way, sluggishly, and effectively sucked upwards by heat from the central o/head lockers. Hence, no sense of "breeze" when standing in the aisles. Hence the staggering Cabin Crew. Apparently.


Then there's the Press.. Never mind auto-pilot.. What price auto-suggestion..? :)

[skybabster777]

Hi
I work on the 777 and the amount of people ill on this thing keeps going up. In the past three weeks I have had 3 serious medical problems onboard ... give me the DC10 to work on any day ! Hope this helps?
Happy flying :-)

[160to4DME]

Just to update my own personal experience on this thread, I flew on DL64 again this week into Manchester.
Everyone remained on board whilst 2 people were treated for nausea and fainting by paramedics.
Perhaps in some way connected, they were both sat on the very last row in coach.
As usual, my travelling partner and I both deplaned with splitting headaches (sat in row 4).

[Mr Pax]

Hi Hassel
This subject was talked about in some depth
back in January, as a regular 777 pax I have
often felt unwell and have seen many pax who have fainted. I think somthing need sorting!!

Have a look at this post
http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/Forum1/HTML/012191.html

MP

[hassel]

Thanx Mr Pax
didnt know about that thread
hassel

[littlemissmel]

I know this is a very old post..... but I thought I'd do some research. ONe of my friends fainted on descent into brisbane early last year. She actually lost control of her bladder as well. The people next to her did not notice (or if they did they didn't tell anyone)
ANyway she flew to other australian destinations throughout the year with no problems, but then flew to brisbane and on descent she started to feel very hot, ill and faint again, but this time she did not pass out.
Both times she flew on 737 aircraft. Does anyone know why this could happen? She had not been drinking and her health was fine.