Hong Kong: Why do we live here?

[A. Le Rhone]

I look out my window in Mid-Levels and it's what...6000m in pollution. Noxious coal dust toxic emissions. What is it doing to my child?

It has been like this for the past 5 years and getting worse every month. Its unrelenting.

Cathay and Dragon once paid OK wages but even if they counter the numbers now 'seeing the light' and leaving with a 60% payrise is all the money in the world worth this..........................



Copy from Reuters 29 Oct 2007:
Pollution blamed for China birth defects


Birth defects in Chinese infants have soared nearly 40 per cent since 2001, a government report said, and officials linked the rise to China's worsening environmental degradation.
The rate of defects had risen from 104.9 per 10,000 births in 2001, to 145.5 in 2006, affecting nearly one in 10 families, China's National Population and Family Planning Commission said in a report on its website (www.chinapop.gov.cn).
Infants with birth defects now accounted for "about 4 to 6 per cent of total births every year", the family planning agency said. Of these, 30 per cent would die and 40 per cent would be "disabled".
The World Health Organisation estimates about 3 to 5 per cent of children worldwide are born with birth defects.
China's coal-rich northern province of Shanxi, a centre of noxious emissions from large-scale coke and chemical industries, had the highest rate of defects, Xinhua news agency said in a report carried by the Beijing News.
"The incidence of birth defects is related to environmental pollution," the newspaper quoted An Huanxiao, director of Shanxi's provincial family planning agency, as saying.
"The survey's statistics show that birth defects in Shanxi's eight large coal-mining regions are far above the national average," An said.
The report said about 2 to 3 million babies are born in China with "visible defects" every year, and a further 8 to 12 million would develop defects within months or years after birth.
Officials had also linked high defect rates to poor, rural areas, and regions that suffered "high rates of illness".
About 460,000 Chinese die prematurely each year from breathing polluted air and drinking dirty water, according to a World Bank study.
The report comes as Beijing tries to improve air quality in time for the August 2008 Olympics, with high levels of small particulate matter - which are sometimes more than 200 per cent above recommended safe level - of particular concern.
China, home to some of the world's most polluted cities, has pledged to cut emissions and clean up its environment, laid waste after decades of breakneck development.
But lax local enforcement and an insatiable demand for energy to feed its booming economy continue to undermine environmental policy goals.
© 2007 Reuters, Click for Restrictions (http://www.theage.com.au/notebn/reuters.html)

[oriental flyer]

6 km what a gem of a day . Sunday well that was another story, 2.5km in pure sh--t and it didn't smell much better either .
I must agree with you my departure from HK is no longer measured in years but months . All the money in the world will not prolong your life if you contract lung cancer . For the past 2 weeks every time I'm in HK I have a mildly sore throat not a great way to live

[Shot Nancy]

Simple: Leave.

[Nullaman]

Cathay and Dragon once paid OK wages but even if they counter the numbers now 'seeing the light' and leaving with a 60% payrise is all the money in the world worth this..........................



Let me see:

Working for less
Working longer patterns
Working with min crew on board
'Interesting' pollution levels for family to enjoy


And the list goes on.......

Not a difficult decision really.

Live to work don't work to live.

[Emphysemic]

FACT: China currently burns 2500 tonnes of coal a MINUTE to power its cities...

This air quality problem is YEARS away from getting better and in all reality will probably get much worse..

At least the CX guys can escape it for about half of every month... For all the KA guys - well, your lungs are F#@&*d... Descending through that toxic transition layer 2 or 3 times a day into another city even more polluted than HKG just cant be good for you...

[hongkongfooey]

Gee Nancy, how long did you take to figure that one out :confused: I'm sure all the people here with 2 year leases, mortgages, kids in school etc will really appreciate that.

Visiting a friend in DB recently, there was a boat running in the bay, pushed up against the side of a barge ( christ only could guess why ) running for 10-12 hours a day, apparently for 2 weeks. The result, a nice bay with a nice layer of diesel all over it, just lovely.
These people have absolutely no :mad: idea, whatsoever.

[Canuckian]

For those of you who are toying with the idea of making the leap to Hong Kong. Please be advised that the air quality has deteriorated so extensively that an average of 300 days of the year now look like this! People surely have received danger pay for less. :eek:
http://s230.photobucket.com/albums/ee85/niahbear/?action=view&current=Pic10300011.jpg
http://s230.photobucket.com/albums/ee85/niahbear/?action=view&current=Pic10300021.jpg

Right click on applicable icon for photo

[hyg]

Then can someone explain how come hong kong has one of the longest life expectancy in the world???

I've been reading pprune and seeing so many ppl just bad-mouthing about hong kong to the rest of the world, just makes me feel sad.... guys, how would u feel if a bunch of ppl just constantly saying ur home town is a crap hole or a dump...let other ppl decide on where they wanna live rather than telling ppl not to come

[badairsucker]

Well I am going to tell you how to type, no text style please my friend.
ppl on this forum would mean PRIVATE PILOTS LICENCE. :ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:


I can not see the wrong in people telling others how bad the pollution is here in Hong Kong. At the end of the day they are only writing the truth.:D

[Mullah Lite]

Then can someone explain how come hong kong has one of the longest life expectancy in the world???

Longest life expectancy my @$$ :ugh:

Proof positive of the propagandist poop fed by the government that they wish the HKG public would swallow en masse. Looks like they've already got one hooked.

So we may have the highest per capita number of centenarians. Here's the real kicker. That means they were born 100 years ago. That also means they didn't have to subject any major organs to the pea soup we have 2/3 of the year right now, for much of their lives. Not exactly rocket science. And neither are the statistics which point out the exponential rise in juvenile respiratory ailments in the last ten years.

The apathy the political leadership has for the status quo is, to say the least, a disgrace by any standard. Still though, I agree with the point made that people should come out here and see for themselves what a cesspool this place has become rather than have us tell potential newcomers about it. I mean, who are we to have an opinion about where we live? The nerve of some ppl...or people.

[SMOC]

Real bright hyg, how about something recent.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/china/article2767159.ece

[slapfaan]

Then can someone explain how come hong kong has one of the longest life expectancy in the world???

Yeah..that's what bow-tie Donald Duck chief executive would love you to believe..

But then the poor idiot only says what those "appaling old wax-works" in Beijing wants him to say...

Welcome to looney-tune land,where prices are high,visibility is poor and people are just miserable..(ever seen anyone smiling in the streets or MTR?):=

[N1 Vibes]

hyg,
sorry that 'your town' is getting such a hammering over the pollution. Sitting here on Lantau Island and I can't see sh!t right now. As far as feeling sorry for yourself and HK, think about those other desirable city residences around the world:

- The Big Apple - 9/11, rubber gloves at airport security, Fox News and Mc Donalds
- Paris - rioting, strikes, girls can't wear a headscarf in school, randy prime-minister (no change there) and the dog-sh!t.
- London - 7/7, Ken Livingston, river thames flooding, fog, cold and rain
- Moscow - the local Mafia, some friedly people from Chechnya, cold and snow

Every city has it's downside, it's just that some of those things can be avoided and some are not present every day. BUT, the pollution in HK is here all the time, and when it does drop to low for about 3 days a year, that's still high on the EU's scale!

On the subject of longer lifespans in HKG, that data is based not on living people, but those who have passed away in recent years. If this data was produced say in the last 5 years, then those people who died at that time have not endured much of the massive increase in pollution that we have seen from 2000 to 2007.

If you were to look at this data in 10 years time I think you will see a distinct drop in the average lifespan. Let alone the effects of eating bok choi from a certain well known supermarket with 240 times the permitted level of certain pesticides, or that fish which was only meant to be used for industrial oil production, or the daily breakfast at Mc Donalds.

Again, so sorry for giving HK a hard time, but hey, open your eyes, read the newspaper, watch the news, get informed, get out of your small world, GET REAL!

Wishing you longevity,

N1 Vibes

[bluesidedown]

these posts are scaring the **** out of me!! i spend most of my time in the wanna be section where most people are trying to get an edge on getting on with cx. i've wanted to work for cx for years now and finally have an interview in 2 weeks. i have a wife and a 14 month old son and are planning to have another child shortly...is it a mistake to live in hong kong!? is there an area that is better than others to live in if i decide to go? no offense but i want to get good info from people living there now and not from people that lived there 5 years ago or hate hong kong all together.

thanks!

[badairsucker]

Well I have been here 6 years with 2 small kids and I love Hong Kong, but I am looking to get back to Europe for my kids sake. The pollution is out of control the housing is expensive and the quality is bloody rubbish.

I have enjoyed my time in HK but working for CX is DIFFERENT. Given my time again I would have done BA or Virgin etc.


Overall, HK is great if your are single and want to travel but it's not a very child friendly place. CX are a bunch of wan7ers who want to chip away at our terms and conditions where the rest of the world are trying to improve them.


This is my honest opinion. Hope it helps.:ok:

[bluesidedown]

thanks for the quick reply! it does help.

coming from canada it would be nice to hear from other canadians who have made the move. the ability to work for BA and other european carriers is not available to me and the canadian industry is special to say the least. any canadian perspectives out there?

[womble006]

According to a friend, in the mining industry here in China, the Chinese are building coal powered generating plants at a rate of the entire Australian power stations put together, every 5 months. These plants are the cheapest mass produced plants you can buy and have no filters . The cost of electricity would have to double if they wanted to get anywhere near world standards. So its only getting worse with no improvement expected in our life time.

[Mr. Bloggs]

Below is a picture of the Hong Kong skyline. See it?:8

[F Scaler]

is there an area that is better than others to live in if i decide to go?


The real answer is No!
You'll have some debate on this one but dead set...If the pollution in Tung Chung (read airport) is high/severe, Sai Kung, Central and DB will be within a couple of points! You can get more info from http://www.epd-asg.gov.hk/ but be aware the Low/High/Severe/Extreme categories have somewhat skewed limits compared to the real world. Read- your high would be a low here.

F Man out

[Emphysemic]

Bluesidedown,
I also love Hong Kong as a city.. But the honest truth is that the air quality here is at levels that will cause you and your family long term ( and short term ) health problems..
The following is an article from 2005 and things have got a whole lot worse since then...
www.iht.com/articles/2005/10/13/bloomberg/sxpollute.php
Your second interview (i think - i'm with KA ) will be in Hong Kong so come and see for youself.. Take the time to go up to The Peak and see if you are lucky enough to see Kowloon across the harbour... Most days you either wont be able to or you'll see it through a thick haze..
Hong Kong is a tiny place and it doesn't matter where you live.. The whole of China is blanketed by this layer of filth.. Hong Kong is no exception..
As for me... I am planning my exit strategy... I will not be here in 6 months and the ONLY reason is the unseen damage that this air must be causing me is not worth any amount of $$$$$... I am here as a single guy... There is no way in hell i would expose small children with developing lungs to this..
PM me if you want and i'll email you photos of good days and bad days here.. Unfortunately the bad heavily out weigh the good and the good would be a disaster in your home country or mine..

[Harbour Dweller]

Priceless Mr Bloggs.... :D

[Coastrider26]

Right on!! :D:D:D:D

[Trevor the lover]

Blueside down,

Before I came here, I too had the **** scared out of me by these sorts of threads. But blindly we came anyway. I am now leaving and taking my family back home because of the pollution. It really is BAAAAAAAAAD. And with kids, your worry will be ceaseless.

I don't actually regret coming - the expats here have made it a fabulous stay for the number of years we have been here - great people, great barbecues, great nights out. It has been a great adventure and HK IS a great place to live when the skies are clear. But that is getting rarer and the pollution is getting thicker. I cannot subject my kids to ANY risk at all of health problems due to the industrial waste we are forced to breathe. ANY risk at ALL for my precious papooses is too high. And any effects are a long way off appearing, so as the guys above have said, statistics now are meaningless.

Just to add a tad more to the life expectancy debate. The figures are derived by actually looking at deaths across the whole population - so African nations with high infant mortality rates are obviously lower on the life expectancy scale. So if you had a population with 15 million centenarians, one would think life expectancy would be a nice high figure, but if that same place had a huge infant mortality rate then the life expectancy figure is obviously deceptively lower. Hong Kong's life expectancy figure is high because infant mortality is rare. But as said earlier, the real effects of this relatively new phenomena will not ramificate for years.

And it is two new coal fired power stations commissioned per week.

Mate, get your wife out here for a week in December/January, and then when you find you can barely see across the harbour through the filthy brown crap - THEN you can make an informed decision.

But me?? I'm gong home in 2 months.

[Apple Tree Yard]

UN agency declared that the pollution from Southern China will get up to 3 times as bad as it is presently.....before any improvements are noted. :\

[Dreamweaver]

Followed this thread with interest. I spent 14 years in HK, leaving in '99. I always remember the Novembers as having great wx, low humidity, great vis. and comfortable temperature.

I operated into HK 3 times last month (from Asia) each time it being poor vis. I was not aware that the pollution had become so bad. We were always concerned about pollution, but we preferred to live down town, rural living being an option. Now it seems you can't escape it. Thought I might go back to live one day, think I'll just nip back for a beer with old mates now.

Just hope it improves for you all.

DW

[Trevor the lover]

Here's the problem.

To the Chinese (especially HK Chinese)

Favourite sport - money
Favourite music - money
Favourite pass time - money
favourite tele show - money
preferred political system - money
favourite holiday - money
favourite religion - money
favourite conversation topic - money
favourite night out - money
favourite band - money
favourite actor - money
favourite clothes - money
favourite pets - money
favourite color - BROWN, because when the sky is brown, that means.................................you guessed it

[No-Wai]

Zap! Pow! Batman hit by Hong Kong pollution

Hong Kong
November 4, 2007 - 5:42PM

Batman might cut a superhuman figure as he fights off evil-doers to save the world, but Hong Kong's polluted harbour is, apparently, one death-defying stunt too far.
Producers shooting the new Batman movie have been forced to cut one scene involving the caped crusader - played by Christian Bale - jumping out of a plane into the city's famed Victoria Harbour.
According to the South China Morning Post, producers felt the poor water quality was just too dangerous for the action hero when shooting for part of the film takes place there in the coming week.
Citing unidentified production sources, it said the stunt had now been taken off the shooting list for The Dark Knight, which co-stars Australian actor Heath Ledger as the Joker and Michael Caine as Batman's long-suffering butler, Alfred. Christopher Nolan returns to direct the sequel to the 2005 hit Batman Begins.
"There was supposed to be a scene where Batman jumps out of the back of a Hercules C-130 and into Victoria Harbour," one source was quoted as saying.
"The plan was for Batman to be seen jumping into the water and then climbing up some bamboo, or something similar, onto a pier.
"But when they checked a water sample, they found all sorts of things, salmonella and tuberculosis, so it was cancelled. Now the action will cut to inside a building," the source added.
A spokeswoman for October Pictures, the Hong Kong production company which is managing the shoot, would not comment on the report.
A spokeswoman for Hong Kong's Environmental Protection Department admitted that harbour water was not suitable for swimming due to untreated sewage, the newspaper said.
As well as poor water, Hong Kong also suffers from air pollution that on many days leaves the city clouded in haze, partly caused by local power plants and emissions from factories in the neighbouring Pearl River Delta region in southern China.
Hong Kong's harbour has long been polluted by industrial and residential sewage, and swimming is not recommended, said WWF's conservation director Andy Cornish.
"Even with the Batsuit on, swimming is not recommended. There is still a horrendous amount of effluent going into the harbour," he said.
The Warner Bros movie will be filmed in Hong Kong from November 6 to 12.
A major outdoor stunt is to be filmed at the International Finance Centre complex while the Peninsula Hotel will be used for other scenes.
Bale and his co-star Morgan Freeman will travel to Asia for the shoot, during which IMAX cameras will be used for the first time in Hong Kong.
Hong Kong's glass and steel skyscrapers, glistening blue harbour and authentic Chinese winding streets have proven a popular backdrop for many Hollywood movies including the James Bond hit Tomorrow Never Dies.
AFP

[Trevor the lover]

Throwadyce

Summed it up beautifully!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Lowkoon]

You guys have such short memories! Dont you remember the few clear days we had a couple of months ago? The HKG govt came out and said that they were due to their policies to reduce emmisions working? Obviously this stuff we see now is new polution from somewhere else! I cant believe the locals are so stupid and naieve that they actually swallow this $hit from the govt! (Pardon the pun). :ugh: Any western country would see rioting in the streets if they had to endure just 1 day like this! Dont people power and communism go hand in hand? :confused: Dont worry , I know the answer. $$$$$$

Ironic isnt it? A few people at the top making billions off the blood sweat tears and deformed babies of the masses. Slowly choking the workers that make this economic miracle possible, while the masses get nothing in return. Isnt that why they had a revolution in the first place? How is it any different this time? Not sure this is quite what Mao and the red army had in mind.

[ShyTorque]

Lived there for four years. After two of my three young sons spent time in hospital casualty wards, breathing nebulised air we decided something had to be done. Having taken medical advice I resigned from my contract and we left the territory for good. Cost me an estimated £K100 but I know it was worth every penny.

[RonAir]

I have been an asthmatic since I was 7, so some 30+ years ago. I moved here in July and I now use fewer drugs than I did living in London. I can't give you scientific facts, just empirical data. The viz may be shiite, but it can't be all rubbish otherwise I'd be spending most days at the Matilda/Ruttonjee.:confused:

[missingblade]

Ronair - if you were asthmatic since seven you would know that asthma often has nothing to do with pollution. It can be pollen, humidity, dust and any one of a 100 different things that bring on the allergies that eventually cause asthma. Only reason you feel better here is cause of change in environment - ie you moved away from whatever caused you to get sick. BUT don't worry buddy - if you live here long enough - with your already weaker lung system than most - the pollution will eventually make you sick. And just like a child with weak and sensitive lungs - you will in the end suffer more than most.

You of all people should know better......

[RonAir]

missingblade - having lived with this for some time, think I know a little about it, so I don't need lecturing..All I am saying is that there are a lot of histrionics on this forum and I know you CX/KA guys need excuses to leave, but just admit you can't cut the mustard, I will be there to take yr place....:rolleyes:

[Kitsune]

Ronair, your asthma has probably improved due to the fact that there is no pollen in Hong Kong air.....'cos theres no f*cking plants!:}

[BigPimpin]

Yo Ronnie. Your lungs are so f*^+ed up that it felt right at home when you moved to HK. That's why you feel just great!

[Trevor the lover]

Ron, with ridiculous comments like "can't cut the mustard....." You will fit in here just fine with your head in the sand with all the locals.

What Ron doesn't mention is that he is blind - well he must be to be insinuating pollution is not a problem here 'cause he obviously can't see it.

Dill

[HotDog]

'cos theres no f*cking plants! Agree about the terrible pollution but fact is that 74% of the Hong Kong countryside is green.
http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m246/adamtakach/PA060066.jpg
Tai Tam Country Park, 06/09/2007.

[hongkongfooey]

" Why do we live here ? "

Well, with the HKD following the USD like some sort of stalker sheep, and the aviation industry bleeding for pilots worldwide, it aint going to be the money for too much longer :D

[Kitsune]

Think you're being a tad disingenuous there Rev....I notice your photo doesn't show the blizzard like drifts of polystyrene boxes and plastic bags left by the locals on their days out, nor the barbie forks thrown everywhere by the barbies for your kid to get tetanus from, and is that mist or pollution in the sky?;)

[HotDog]

Kitsune, you have obviously never walked your dog through the Tai Tam Country Park lately. There is not a shred of rubbish or barbecue forks to be seen anywhere and I have noticed the same cleanliness in other rural retreats like the Sai Kung Country Park. It all seemed to change after SARS hit the place.

[Al E. Vator]

.....er, thats because the acid rain corrodes bbq implements in 5 minutes (and Batmans' undies too apparently).

[roboratski]

blusidedown,why would you want to leave canada for HK?looks like a very beautiful place even on postcards and travel mags.

[rodney rude]

Hot Dog,
Sory dude, waaaay wrong. I live in the Sai Kung country park. Every Monday morning or after every public holiday every single BBQ area is awash with an enormous amount of litter. The culture is not about cleaning up after yourself - kids are not taught it as what should be done. The streetsweepers will do it.
Comne have a look at about 7am on a Monday - it will open your eyes. And hats off to the streetsweepers for the great job they do cleaning up after Hong Kong's pigs.

[throw a dyce]

Rule 3,
Post deleted.Can't be a:mad:ed anymore.Why don't you slag me? Out in the Sandpit now eh? Can't get a job anywhere else?:suspect:

[Rule3]

Post Deleted. Sorry if you misunderstood the Question. I read all your posts and replies with interest and agree with you 100% about HK. Enjoy the golf and the clean air.

[throw a dyce]

Rule3
Check PMs.

[Goonybird]

Hotdog,

FYI, If you are concerened about your anonymity you shouldn't post photos from your personal photobucket album. It's easy to follow the link to your entire album.
I'm not a regular on here so I don't know if you are concerned with this or not, just thought I'd mention it.

[HotDog]

Thanks Goonybird but I'm not particularly concerned about a breach of my anonymity.:ok:

[priapism]

I was visiting my brother in Yuen Long last year and was waiting for him in the foyer of the huge yum cha place there.(the Kar Ching??) I had just picked up about 200 photo prints that I had taken in Melbourne and had printed at the local Kodak shops. Among these photos were some great shots of half a dozen hot air balloons that grace the sky at low level over my house occasionally and some photos from the surf beach at Lorne. There were a couple of local elderly China's waiting as well and they couldn't help but look on as I flipped through my prints. I can't speak Cantonese and they couldn't speak English , but I did my best to explain what the photo's were about. Pretty soon I had an appreciating audience of locals who were also waiting and they were pointing at my balloon and beach shots and seemed impressed indeed .

My brother eventually arrived and laughed when he saw what was going on.
He speaks very good Cantonese and I told him that they were really into the balloons. He listened in and told me it wasn't the balloons and beach they were impressed with it was the clear, blue cloudless skies!

The things we take for granted!


There is surprisingly good hiking in Honkers. I love the place to visit and could live there for a short term but I would miss the clean air. Even in Yuen Long it is pretty bad. I made the mistake of attempting a run there one morning. I've never had asthma but I really did feel quite tight in the chest and had to stop.

[Buttie Box]

Have a look at page 4 of The Standard today (Monday 19th Nov). American investment guru Jim Rogers states that the high level of air pollution has forced him to go to Singapore. "Expatriates in Hong Kong...have repeatedly called on the government to make cleaner air a priority..." "Air pollution costs the city about HK$ 21.2 billion a year in hospital admissions..."

Looking out the window, it must be about 4000m if you're lucky. You can taste the air.

BB

[Lowkoon]

Used to freak when we could smell hkg at 5,000' on descent, then was alarmed when we could smell it at 8000', and so on. A new personal record for me, smelt it at fl190 over siera. That distinctive sulphur chlorine aroma that lets you know you are home! :hmm: At least the flight attendants have stopped reporting it as smoke in the cabin... For now...

So good to see Hu giving a speech on the environment in Singapore this week. Isnt that going to be as well received as a speech by Bush on his road map to peace in the middle east?

Maybe the congress in Bali will see some action? Not holding my breath, but wish I could, so I dont have to breathe this sh1te! :oh:

[BScaler]

People don't generally move to Hong Kong for the fresh air - there are usually career drivers behind the move here, but the question really has to be 'How much is living in this polluted environment really worth in dollar terms?', or put another way 'Is the boost in my career by taking a job here worth exposing myself to the environment in Hong Kong?'.

It is a hard question to answer, particularly if you are inflicting the polluted environment here in Hong Kong on your family as well.

Here is a Letter to the Editor that appeared in the SCMP on Thursday November 2007 that gives one perspective. It is entitled

'Living in heavily polluted HK has been bitter-sweet experience'
I am an Australian who has been living here for only 12 months and while I have enjoyed my time, I can hardly say Hong Kong has been a model city to be envied by the rest of the world.
For the first time in my 30 years on this planet I have worried every day about what my living conditions are doing to my body - and what the long-term effects will be, even after I return to a clean environment.
You can't drink the tap water, or eat fish caught locally, although you probably do this unwittingly. You can't dine out with confidence until you've had your hepatitis shots and you can't avoid MSG.
How can anyone relax at a local restaurant knowing that the vegetables have been grown in mainland soil, soaking up chemicals and heavy metals from one of its abused waterways, 90 per cent of which are polluted?
I now know when I come home from a walk outside, I am not getting sick, my throat simply hurts from the pollution. My newly acquired persistent cough is a symptom of being poisoned by industrial diesel fumes and the fact that I am getting pimples for the first time in my life in my thirties is a testament to the disgusting environmental conditions.
I have to apologise to my overseas visitors for the smells emanating from the sewers, for the blasts of diesel fumes on the Star Ferry, for the pointless trip to The Peak to see the smog, for the dead and bloated fish on the rubbish tip-style waterfronts of the 'beautiful' outlying islands and for avoiding most of the city's local eateries unless my guests have been vaccinated.
Before I arrived in Hong Kong, I was planning on starting a family. Now I'm so worried about what only 12 months in Hong Kong has done to my health I have booked a raft of tests for when I get home, including those for detecting high levels of mercury and other heavy metals. This would never have been a concern back home. Living in Hong Kong has been a bitters-weet experience.

The inescapable inference from this letter is that one would have to think hard before leaving a place where you are forced to breathe clean air and live in a large house, and swap it for this polluted environment in Hong Kong in order to make a little more money, or further your career.

This is particularly so in our seniority-driven occupation where it is not always so easy to move sideways into a comparable position in another airline. Almost invariably a demotion is required in order to move between airlines. You could find yourself, having invested some time here, trapped in an environment you and your family are unhappy with, but unable to move away without taking a considerable hit in terms of career progression.

What price clean air, fresh food, and healthy lifestyle?

[7478]

Mr Trevor, i don't quite get this.
Care to explain further?
congrats for moving out in 2 months.

Quoted:

Here's the problem.

To the Chinese (especially HK Chinese)

Favourite sport - money
Favourite music - money
Favourite pass time - money
favourite tele show - money
preferred political system - money
favourite holiday - money
favourite religion - money
favourite conversation topic - money
favourite night out - money
favourite band - money
favourite actor - money
favourite clothes - money
favourite pets - money
favourite color - BROWN, because when the sky is brown, that means.................................you guessed it

[Trevor the lover]

Pretty simple - thats all they think about and all they care about!

[EXEZY]

I would say 7478 is a bit miffed as I would guess he's a local cadet training in Adelaide.

[7478]

Trevor the loverPretty simple - thats all they think about and all they care about!


No offense to other expats.

But from which corner of the world do u come from? i find you really rude, are u exceptional or a reflection of what the population of your hometown is like?

i think it's people like YOU who are never satisfied with the money you're paid!!! Some of YOU really like to grumble about money.

hope i won't bump into you in the flight deck for the next 2 months before u disappear. :D

[leopold bloom]

A very ironic post as the only reason you Gweilos are in Hong Kong is for the money. You quite obviously don't know any HK Chinese very well or you wouldn't post such tripe. Look at the title of the thread again, money is the answer,but not for the natives.

[Canuckian]

From another hong kong forum:
Hey geminijets,
I moved myself and my family from North America to Hong Kong 2 years ago to work for a large Asian carrier based in Hong Kong.
For me, the city has been a real mix of ups and downs. Be prepared to do a little more work just to get the basic things in life, and a whole lot of paperwork and old English bureaucracy to get the major things done. The public transport infrastructure in Hong Kong is I believe second to none in the world so it is quite possible to commute to the airport as required for work. However the basic theme seems to be that once you've had enough of someone coughing up phlegm in your ear you may opt for taxis or a personal vehicle. We do just fine on the bus and MTR and will most likely stay that way.
Being situated in this part of the world is definitely a plus. All those beautiful places to visit are on your doorstep and significantly cheaper and less time consuming to visit than from Europe or NA.
The main thing you'll hear over and over again when living here is the environment. What the Chinese are doing to their air and water systems is in a word shocking. They attempt to justify it by saying "the country is modernizing; the west did it now it's our turn". The unfortunate reality is that only a relatively small portion of the Chinese are on this so called wave of modernization leaving the vast majority of peasants behind to live and work in the world’s most polluted areas. Another consideration is that when western countries modernized they had populations to support equivalent to a drop in the bucket as far as china's concerned. The current political/business system in China is very contagious in the region and unfortunately is being represented more and more everyday in Hong Kong. The political economic powers in the region are likened only to a supreme being, they giveth and taketh away(while of course trying to make you think you really did or didn't want it anyway). When the issue of air pollution rears its ugly head the Beijing appointed administration points the finger at the coal power stations and manufacturing plants on mainland Chinese soil. They claim that it is out of the hands and we need to focus on the pollution emitted from Hong Kong. Now this is all fine and dandy however with a slight wind shift in direction and velocity you'll quickly note the origin of most of the pollution. The ironic thing is the majority of the damaging plants and factories in the region are owned and operated by Hong Konger's who have more than enough money and resources to purchase the existing technologies to clean it up. Personally I think they should be publicly identified as the perpetrators of the current mess. China and Hong Kong are not the only ones to blame in this environmental catastrophe. If western countries stop opening dollar stores on every corner then perhaps the manufacturing in the region would be forced to slow. To see for yourself please look at the Environmental Protection Dept website (http://www.epd-asg.gov.hk/eindex.php). Keep in mind that when a large city the size of Toronto which is subject to smoggy and humid condition in the summer have RSP reading upwards of 30 they issue public health advisories. You’ll note that HK is rarely if ever below 30.
When you move your family to the other side of the globe you expect something in return. A contract is signed and shortly thereafter the airline slowly begins to change and whittle away the initial terms and conditions of the agreement. After a short time your career outlook, compensation, benefits and mental status are a darn sight different than when you signed on. There are very few and I mean very few labor laws on Hong Kong so you will have no chance at defending yourself in the courts against the economic beast. Unions are also illegal and unrecognized. The current pay status with the major carriers in HK has fallen behind some European carriers and when you factor in the exchange rate they are well behind some. Don't expect to have 24 days off a month and take home $100,000 as some insightful individuals have previously mentioned. Besides I highly doubt they want the fellow at the pointy end collecting food stamps when something goes wrong and he has 400 pax and a mucho $$$ airplane to protect.
The long and short of this whole rant is that Hong Kong definitely has something to offer but nothing comes easily so be prepared to make a trade off. If you go ahead with the move do it with your eyes wide open. Take health, environment, currency exchange, industrial relations, possibilities to move back home, living expenses and basic lifestyle into account. Most of all good luck!

[A. Le Rhone]

If you think the atmosphere is only of miniscule thickness (compared to the vastness of space) what the hell are we doing pumping all that crap into the air? Just waiting for a breeze to blow it away only takes it somewhere else.

Some of the most ardent 'greenies' are current and ex-Astronauts. They have seen what a delicate gem our planet is. That people are willing to destroy that for the almighty $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ beggars belief.

Western countries leave much to be desired but make no mistake, the living habits of Hong Kong and Mainland citizens are at the very forefront of global destruction.

NO2 is not beneficial to your child's lungs.
http://www.texasjim.com/NASApix/NASApix10.jpg

[A. Le Rhone]

For a non-SCMP understanding of how bad it is check out the link below.

The SCMP has of course their own special 'sanitised' view of pollution, so as no to offend Mr Tsang of course, who won't offend the HK businessmen-pigs with their belching unfiltered Guandong factories.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_pollution_in_Hong_Kong

[SIC]

Keep one thing in mind - China is going through an industrial revolution - and you are the labour that will be abused in the process. As long as the same scumbag leaders who make law and policy are the owners of the factories there will be no improvement in your environment or working conditions.

This took two hundred years and the rise of socialist trade unions and their fight for legal recognition in the West to sort out - won't be any different in China. And won't happen while you are on the B/unified scale....I expect things to go to at least a H or J scale over the next 50 years before we might start seeing an improvement.

[BScaler]

I opened my mailbox today to find a leaflet showing how some people are managing to find a way to make money out of the pollution here in Hong Kong - I guess there is a silver lining to every (brown, foul-tasting and pungent) cloud...

AIG are offering their 'Pollution Protection Plan' to all and sundry! Their advertising pitch goes like this:

Nowadays, our environment is heavily polluted. We are breathing in fumes always and eating can be life-threatening. Nearly 4000 food poisoning cases have been reported in Hong Kong over the past 5 years affecting about 15,000 people. Now you can make a choice of living in fear or being secure - Pollution Protection Plan with a comprehensive coverage for you and your family just costs you $3 a day.I don't know how signing up to such a plan could possibly make you feel any more secure about breathing in the noxious fumes and vapours, or eating at various outlets around Hong Kong, but it supposedly does.

If you want to get the hot oil, (or to prove to yourself that this is not a crank post...), the number to call is (852) 3174 5505.

I am just guessing here, but I doubt the same plan is being offered in Australia, New Zealand or Canada.

[Adam Nams]

I came over here with two buckets labelled Money and Experience.

I told myself that when either of them is full then it is time to move on, but since I arrived here I now realise that there is something a lot more important; a third bucket labelled 'Health'. Should that one start to empty too quickly then it is time to go.

In short, how much is your health worth? We all have a choice, it is just having the balls to cut the ties and move on when you feel the time is right.

[throw a dyce]

I have just spent the last 3 weeks recovering from a bad chest infection,which turned into Bronchitis.Not nice and in a very clean air climate.The Doc first words were ''Do you smoke''.He reckoned heavy pollution doesn't do Asthma or Bronchitis sufferers any good at all.Smoking is a real no no.
It's only when you can't breathe properly,that you realise what hidden dangers there are inhailing the HK soup.:uhoh:

[OldChinaHand]

My friend suffered badly from lung infections in Hong Kong, hospitalised, constant medication, check ups, frequent xrays. Then two years back a family situation required her back in Europe and she departed to small town European life. She binned her medication on leaving HKG.

Since then, no problems....no medication..... Earlier this year while discussing same with a Dr. who is a pal during a dinner party, he suggested her having an xray to ensure it had cleared properly. She accepted his invitation, the X Ray and examination came back crystal clear. I should add she suffered no problems before going to HKG in the first place, she spent 3 years there.

HKG Air is poison !!!!

[jtr]

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/bc66f794-9154-11dc-9590-0000779fd2ac.html

Pollution policy

A sure sign that your affluent financial centre needs to do more to clean up the environment? When an international insurer starts selling “pollution protection plans” to your citizens.

Such is the case in Hong Kong, which today gains the dubious honour of being the first city in the world where insurance giant American International Group will be selling insurance policies targeted at illnesses caused by pollution and food poisoning.

The plan, essentially a more narrowly defined health insurance policy, will be launched next in São Paulo, Brazil, before other cities across the world.

Hong Kong’s government has been facing growing calls to improve air quality. Its standing in quality-of-life surveys has suffered recently because of complaints about its air pollution.

Environmentalists in Hong Kong would rather the money going into insurance accounts was somehow used instead to clean up the air.

But if AIG’s latest product proves popular, environmentalists will at least gain one piece of ammunition: a handy statistic to cite on the monetary cost of pollution.

[Blue-Footed Boobie]

A financial article on investing in China indicated that investors should be very warry because of China's staggering pollution killing off everyone over the age of 60 with respiratory illness or lung cancer.

The health system is being swamped and on top of this their 1 child policy means there will not be enough young workers to help meet the soaring health care costs of the elderly.

I agree with those who say all the tea in China ain't worth an unexpected Chest X-ray at the cancer clinic.

Blue Foot

[Sir Donald]

What,pollution killing the over 60's.That would be god sent for the UK,and its incompetent polie's,and answer for its pension crisis.The polie's would have a field day.
On the subject of pollution,industrial revolution,the WEST helps/causes China to expand which is being caused by demand for cheap labour and profits from it.£180 pounds for a basic package Wii,made in China for 18p.Demand equals supply.Globalisation.Stop moaning HKG this HKG that,look at the real cause of it all.Leave in protest and write to your Member of Parliament expressing your concerns about their foreign policy.Why don't you all buy products made at home(no they are much cheaper in HKG)bla bla bla

[BScaler]

Article in the SCMP Sunday December 9, page A2

Pollution unit crashes after high reading
The roadside station detecting air pollution in Central broke down a few hours after it recorded the highest air pollution reading of the year.

A spokesman for the Environmental Protection Department, which manages the station, said the non-functioning unit would not be repaired until tomorrow.

But environmentalist Edward Chan Yue-fai, of Greenpeace, said it should be repaired as soon as possible although people could get an idea of air quality by reading data from the other two roadside stations, in Causeway Bay and Mong Kok.

The results are posted on the department's website.
The absence of data from the station meant that the overall roadside reading was downgraded to 'high' from 'very high' in the afternoon. The goverment website ceased showing the Central roadside ststion's data from about 2pm yesterday, shortly after recording a reading of 103.

Readings above 100 are deemed 'very high'.
Yesterday was another badly polluted day for Hong Kong. Mong Kok and Causeway Bay recorded high air pollution levels, and Mong Kok's index rose slightly above 100 in the morning. The year's record high of 151 was detected at the roadside station in Central on Friday. The highest reading ever recorded (174) was on March 29, 2000.

Friends of the Earth environmental affairs manager Hahn Chu Honkeung said it was not uncommon for the detectors to break down. He said the public should be aware that air quality in crowded districts such as Central was usually poor despite a lack of scientific data.
'Indexes taken from roadside stations usually show poor air quality, meaning that the public should be aware of their health when going to these congested districts,' he said.

'Even when fairly satisfactory indexes are shown, they are usually not up to standard according to the one formulated by the World Health Organisation'.

So don't just take my word for it - read the papers! The inescapable fact is that the pollution here is disgusting.

For those considering a job here in Hong Kong, (not just aviation, any job...), it has to be a major factor in determining whether the remuneration or career progression is worth the health risk to you and your family.

For those here in Hong Kong already, it must be a factor in determining just 'how much is enough'! There are those that have left the Company recently, particularly junior officers, because the combined effect of the Cat B system, CoS08 (the attendant risk to command progression in event of industry slowdown), apallingly inadequate imposed pay rise, compel junior officers to look elsewhere.

The pollution, always a constant stressor in Hong Kong, appears to be the straw that breaks the camels back for some.

[BScaler]

Letter to the Editor in SCMP Tuesday December 11, Page A14

Bad press for HK pollution
Attending an Islamic Banking conference in Bahrain, I noticed a report in the Bahrain Tribune about pollution in Hong Kong.

It was embarrassing to have to try and defend the quality of life we should have in Hong Kong against comments condemning Hong Kong as 'a filthy place to want to live or visit'.

Given the conference is attended by some of the leading figures of Islamic financing, an area our hapless Government seeks closer ties with,it is time for Chief Executive Donald Tsang Yam-kuen to do something to stop Hong Kong being condemned internationally as an unfit place to work.
MP, The Peak

The pollution is becoming an all-encompassing issue for many employers seeking to attract expats - here it is affecting the banking sector.

The cat is out of the bag - everyone knows about Hong Kong and it's problems with pollution, and one or two clear days over summer is not going to fool most people. Just check out the live background to the CNN newsdesk most days.

[SMOC]

Because life like this
http://my.telegraph.co.uk/maggie_millington/december_2007/the_perfect_sunday_.htm is crap compared to HK :}

[missingblade]

The Real Deal
The text below is from a Hong Kong pilot's union forum- edited to protect the innocent. The test was done by a professional air filtration company. One of the pilots with the same company has been diagnosed with heavy metal readings way in excess of safe limits.

"PM is particulate matter which is the crap we breathe on a daily basis courteousy of our friends involved in Made in China.

Let me summarize what came from the conversation at the time and from a conversation i had with the good doctor i mention above (this is just referring to PM);


5,000 - 30,000 ppl (parts per litre of air) is the range you would expect in Switzerland or Australia
above 105,000 is considered a 'contaminated' zone, and you should limit your expose to these types of areas (think of a surfboard shaping bay or a dusty workshop).
the explanatory graphs in the attached doc stop at +300,000
particles smaller than 3 microns are not blocked at all by our natural filtering system (nose hairs etc; some are more protected than others) and travel directly into our lungs.
the air pollution indexes in HK is based around counting particles that fall within certain weight/size ranges, ergo, if a particle is lighter than it should be for it's size IT WILL NOT BE COUNTED
And the results, (drum roll please);


a reading of 670,000ppl inside and outside my house. The fact that we had the house closed, air-con on with the air-con filter recently replaced MADE NO DIFFERENCE at all. That is almost 7 times the maximum recommended limit and 20 to over 100 times that of a bad day in Sydney or Zurich.
a really good day in HK is still in the 100k contaminated area! 600k being average, and they say we have regular days in excess of 1,000,000ppl... god help those of you in Tung Chung, and all of us clowns on overnights in China.
HKs 'average day' is twice the top level of the graphs... they didn't consider readings this high which is disturbing in itself.
the majority of the particles that were detected were below 3 microns (down to .3microns) so we breathe them straight into our lungs. This explains to me why after a days work in Africa (hazy from bush fires/natural causes) you have a blocked solid nose and here all you have is an acrid taste in your throat.
It's possible that the published API figures here are jerry rigged to prevent a mass exodus of the Expat work force and anyone else with half a brain (yes, i am still here...)
Really all it takes is to look out the window, but it helps to see it in black & white too."
http://www.pprune.org/forums/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif http://www.pprune.org/forums/images/buttons/report.gif (http://www.pprune.org/forums/report.php?p=3768072) http://www.pprune.org/forums/images/buttons/reply_small.gif (http://www.pprune.org/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=3768072&noquote=1)

[BScaler]

As I walked outside to get the paper from where the following article was taken, I couldn't help but not see the other side of Victoria Harbour only a couple of kilometers away. The other side is completely hidden, on a cloudless day, by unmitigated, foul-smelling, dangerous smog. Retreating inside to write this, as the previous post pointed out, will not help me avoid breathing this noxious brew.

Why is it so bad? Don't we read in the papers and on the news that the Government is 'doing something' to solve the problem of the rampant noxious pollution? Why are things only getting worse?

It helps if you understand where the pollution stems from. Particularly at this time of year, with a northerly monsoon, the Mainland pollution washes over Hong Kong like an ever-thickening blanket.

This article will help explain why things are only getting worse on the mainland. It may appear long, but it is worth the read.

Article in the SCMP Thursday December 13, Page A8

Beijing's edict lost in scramble for coal
Central Government safety crackdown is no match for Shanxi's corrupt mines

Last weeks explosion at the licensed Xinyao coal mine in Hongtong county killed at least 105 miners.

The central government has been ringing the alarm bell about mine safety for years, issuing laws, regulations and propaganda on environmental protection and sustainable development, and sending out scores of inspection teams each year to weed out illegal operations.

But the decrees crumble under the weight of local protectionism. The death toll from resource exploitationism escalates, polluting businesses continue to operate, and corrupt officials remain at large.

"If the operation of the Xinyao coal mine is fully licensed, it is licensed by the devils from hell," Li Yizhong, director of the State Administration of Work Safety, said on Sunday, slamming his fists down.

Beijing, he announced, would establish a taskforce to find out what caused the explosion, imprison those responsible and prevent similar blasts. "Linfen officials at all levels must seriously review what they have done this year and tell me exactly what is behind these three fatal incidents," he told China News Service.

Meng Xuenong, Shanxi's newly appointed acting governor, immediately submitted his apology.

And city mayor Li Tiantai said he would obey any central government decision with a "broken heart" and "shame". "As the head of the city, I haven't carried out my job properly and failed to live up to the trust that the party and the people placed in me. My responsibility for this cannot be shrugged off."

But as he apologised, a convoy of trucks carting coal from a mine 3km from Xintao paid fees at a secret toll station set up by Hongtong county officials on an uncharted highway covertly built by mine owners to avoid inspectors. The convoys continued despite Beijing orders for a halt to coal operations throughout the county until the enquiry was done.

Just a kilometer from the highway that leads to the Xinyao mine, an illegal coking plant fitted with 18th century technology ran as usual, spewing out flames and black smoke beside a dried-up river in Longma village.

And, in Zuomu village, residents complained about a four-hectare chemical plant that emitted "sweet and nauseous" smells that caused their hair to fall out.

"Officials from Beijing will never find the truth," said Ma Geming, a Xizhuang village farmer who has seen the tunnels of the Xinyao mine. "Coal mines don't hire locals. They don't do business with locals. So when someone dies, it can be easily covered up."

"In every mine there is a person whose job is dealing with accidental death with the heads. Taking care of an accident that kills less than 10 is a piece of cake," Mr Ma said. "Nobody has any idea how many miners die every year."

Government officials who were supposed to supervise mine safety were mostly bought off, Mr Ma said.

Some officials have even been mine owners. Cheng Yanping, director of the Hongtong county land and resources bureau, was once the owner of the Longma coal mine, one of the biggest in the Linfen area.

It is common knowledge in Hongtong county that an official needs to spend half a million yuan to buy a position in the county government, and more if he or she wants to move up to the municipal level.

As a result, government officials are motivated by money, creating a breeding ground for corruption. "After paying 500,000 yuan to the county environmental protection bureau every month, you can continue your business, even though on television they say it has been banned," a Longma villager said.

Chen Zhongquan, a former party sectretary of Hongguang village, summarised the coal industry this way. "Behind every coal mine accident there is corruption; behind corruption there is immense government power; behind the power there is one single party," the 70-year-old said. "Maybe it was a mistake to drive the Kuomintang to Taiwan, maybe we should welcome them back."

If you have read all this then congratulations!!

...the point here, broken down to it's irreducible essence, is that the stuff I can see out of my window, floating down from mainland China, the stuff I breathe every day, is not going to go away anytime soon.

Some pilots feel somewhat trapped here in Hong Kong by the seniority system prevalent in airlines today that, unlike many other professions, does not allow easy transfer between companies without loss of pay. It's hard to leave having invested so much time and effort.

Some have done the monetary versus environmental sums and simply cut and run anyway.

Some junior guys have an easier decision cutting and running as they do not have as much time invested in the airline for their long-term career elsewhere to be impacted greatly.

The question I always have to ask myself is, "When and if I, or God forbid, a member of my family, ever end up suffering from a disease attributable in some way to the pollution here, will I be able to look myself in the miror and say that my time living here was worth it?" It's a question we all have to ask ourselves.

[datafox]

I enjoyed my CX interview experience approximately 2 years ago. Then I did some research regarding the air pollution and I politely said "thanks, but no thanks".

I have nothing against CX itself, but the air pollution in Hong Kong is simply unaccetpable. I believe economists like to consider something called "final cost". Even if CX is a great carrier with high paying salaries, what will 10-20 years of that air pollution do to your health and that of your loved ones?

I will say this though, the air in VHHH is better than that of VIDP. 0500m visibility in FU isn't my idea of a good time. Took a month to get over the cough and other asthmatic problems when I was in India.

[Fokkerwokker]

I will say this though, the air in VHHH is better than that of VIDP. 0500m visibility in FU isn't my idea of a good time. Took a month to get over the cough and other asthmatic problems when I was in India.

Click on this and reach for your masks:

http://www.youtube.com:80/watch?v=0BYs1tteXdo&feature=user


:ooh::ooh:

[Canuckian]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XWDqZNSOEI

[N1 Vibes]

YOU COULD SMELL THE ACRID SULPHURUOUS COAL SMOKE IN THE CHUNG THIS MORNING.
IF ACCORDING TO THE ABOVE YOUTUBE LINK REPORT THE DELHI POLLUTION IS 20 CIGARETTES A DAY, MY GUESS IS THAT THE CHUNG MUST BE ABOUT 18-19!:yuk:
http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=2119699336&context=set-72157600025313048&size=l

[missingblade]

At some point in the near future the pollution issue will become the greatest obstacle to recruiting into Hong kong - not just for CX but all corporates. Then watch the salaries go up. The only workable solution for CX will be more and more based guys - which ironically will save the company money. Also it will mean that CX will start to steal pilots off other Asian carriers - ie. recruit Thai or Malaysian or Filipino pilots to be based in their respective home cities.
Tough luck for expats....

[BScaler]

And as if there isn't enough coal being dug out of the ground in China to feed their billowing factory chimneys, there was a good photo in yesterday's SCMP of the top of one of their mountaintops being blown to smithereens, (to the tune of 6 million cubic metres of soil and rock), for the purpose of exposing yet another seam of black gold.

As a consequence, we'll no doubt continue to be living with the resultant burnt pollutants here in Hong Kong every time a northerly wind drags them down over the coast, (read: pretty much every winter, all winter long), for years to come.

[BusyB]

Its probably the fault of the GC:}

[willnotcomply]

Your complaining will not change the pollution in HK. You are free to take a base or leave. I suggest you consider your options if you are genuinely concerned about your health. You are becoming boring.

[N1 Vibes]

wnc,

suggest that Bscaler is keeping people informed of the reasons why he believes HK is not the best place in the world to live.

The way for people to undersand the problems of air polltuion in China is to read the research and findings of those people in the know.

The fact that most of the information here is coming from Bscaler, and seems to be getting up your nose - suggests that the pollution is of no real interest to you.

So WTF is te point of making a comment here, if you aren't interested? Suggest you ought to remain on whichever cloud you are currently circling on, since you don't seem to be able to see the reality of the sh!t quality of air here.

Brgd's

N1 Vibes

PS - found your other PP posts equally boring.:ugh:

[willnotcomply]

I think that there is enough info outside of these forums regarding pollution in China. Hardly a secret. My point is, we all have a choice. Stay or leave. Nobody has a gun at your head to make you stay in HK. Greed it would seem outweighs health concerns more often than not. Relax man its XMAS!

[sisyphos]

if I would have known about the level of pollution ( and other things..) here in Hong Kong, I never ever would have joined. I heard about the pollution, but the actual extent was simply much much more serious than I expected. There is still the odd clear day, and my interview was on one...

[Rabesh Binny]

I am surprised you are still allowed to post after the bollocking you had from the moderator.(Yes,I saw one of your really nasty posts before it was deleted)

[Dirty Lungs]

Just another glorious day in Hong Kong...

Here is today's pollution figures for your consumption. The first figure is the Air Pollution Index as calculated using a dubious, sleight of hand formula by the laughably named Environment Protection Department. The second figure is the same inputs applied to the internationally accepted World Health Organization air quality objectives. Note the magnitude of the difference in the result!

Source--Pollutant--EPD--API--Greenpeace API
Central/Western (http://www1.greenpeace.org.cn/camp/api/station.php?source_id=1)Respirable Suspended Particulates-----56--------222
Eastern (http://www1.greenpeace.org.cn/camp/api/station.php?source_id=2)Respirable Suspended Particulates---------------53------194.8
Kwai Chung (http://www1.greenpeace.org.cn/camp/api/station.php?source_id=3)Respirable Suspended Particulates----------56-------203.8
Kwun Tong (http://www1.greenpeace.org.cn/camp/api/station.php?source_id=4)Respirable Suspended Particulates-----------54-------191.6
Sha Tin (http://www1.greenpeace.org.cn/camp/api/station.php?source_id=5)Respirable Suspended Particulates---------------54-------173.4
Sham Shui Po (http://www1.greenpeace.org.cn/camp/api/station.php?source_id=6)Respirable Suspended Particulates--------55-------192.8
Tai Po (http://www1.greenpeace.org.cn/camp/api/station.php?source_id=7)Respirable Suspended Particulates-----------------57-------151.8
Tap Mun (http://www1.greenpeace.org.cn/camp/api/station.php?source_id=8)Respirable Suspended Particulates--------------54-------107.4
Tsuen Wan (http://www1.greenpeace.org.cn/camp/api/station.php?source_id=9)Respirable Suspended Particulates-----------56--------205
Tung Chung (http://www1.greenpeace.org.cn/camp/api/station.php?source_id=10)Sulphur Dioxide------------------------------58--------47.2
Yuen Long (http://www1.greenpeace.org.cn/camp/api/station.php?source_id=11)Respirable Suspended Particulates------------61-------230.4
Causeway Bay (http://www1.greenpeace.org.cn/camp/api/station.php?source_id=12)Respirable Suspended Particulates--------63-------253.2
Central (http://www1.greenpeace.org.cn/camp/api/station.php?source_id=13)Respirable Suspended Particulates----------------73-------244.4


Anything over 100 is of concern. Not only are we subjected to this filth, we are lied to about it as well. When you do your due diligence in considering a move to Hong Kong, are you looking at just the company and career? How about the health of your family and children?

Do yourself a massive favour and read through www.cleartheair.org.hk (http://www.cleartheair.org.hk/), preferably with your other half if you have one. Add that to the mix before you drag your family up here.

They treat this place like a toilet. The sooner I leave, the better.

[Dirty Lungs]

:sad:Last night I woke up at about 0230. For the first time (for me personally) I could smell a slight, foul sulphurlike "burning metal" smell. Yesterday was actually a nice clear day, and it was clear when I went to bed. Curious, I thought. I opened up the curtains and was stunned.

Despite the strong wind blowing (you guessed it, straight from China) there was a thick, white "fog". I quickly realised the "fog" was infact a thick blanket of white smoke. Here is this morning's Air Pollution Index figures. As per the above post, ignore the government provided API (the first figure) which is manipulated. Look at the second figure, which is a result of the inputs applied to the accepted, internationally recognized method of calculating API.

I assumed the figures would be high (above 100)....but was stunned, then angry at the results:

SourcePollutantEPD APIGreenpeace API
Central/Western (http://www1.greenpeace.org.cn/camp/api/station.php?source_id=1) Respirable Suspended Particulates----58-----358.4
Eastern (http://www1.greenpeace.org.cn/camp/api/station.php?source_id=2) Respirable Suspended Particulates--------------51-----323.8
Kwai Chung (http://www1.greenpeace.org.cn/camp/api/station.php?source_id=3) Respirable Suspended Particulates----------59----341.6
Kwun Tong (http://www1.greenpeace.org.cn/camp/api/station.php?source_id=4) Respirable Suspended Particulates-----------58----342.6
Sha Tin (http://www1.greenpeace.org.cn/camp/api/station.php?source_id=5) Respirable Suspended Particulates---------------48----370.8
Sham Shui Po (http://www1.greenpeace.org.cn/camp/api/station.php?source_id=6) Respirable Suspended Particulates--------62----327.2
Tai Po (http://www1.greenpeace.org.cn/camp/api/station.php?source_id=7) Respirable Suspended Particulates----------------57------359
Tap Mun (http://www1.greenpeace.org.cn/camp/api/station.php?source_id=8) Respirable Suspended Particulates--------------53----286.2
Tsuen Wan (http://www1.greenpeace.org.cn/camp/api/station.php?source_id=9) Respirable Suspended Particulates-----------58----352.6
Tung Chung (http://www1.greenpeace.org.cn/camp/api/station.php?source_id=10) Respirable Suspended Particulates----------57----213.2
Yuen Long (http://www1.greenpeace.org.cn/camp/api/station.php?source_id=11) Respirable Suspended Particulates------------64----296.2
Causeway Bay (http://www1.greenpeace.org.cn/camp/api/station.php?source_id=12) Respirable Suspended Particulates--------68-----349
Central (http://www1.greenpeace.org.cn/camp/api/station.php?source_id=13) Respirable Suspended Particulates---------------73-----363.2


Anything over 100 is of concern...anything over 300... :sad:

If we take these corrected figures and apply them to a country that doesn't mislead you about these matters, you get a sobering public warning. The following is the public guideline for the US/Canada:

USA/Canada Air Quality Index (AQI)

AQI 301-500
Hazardous
State of emergency would be declared. All will be affected.

No such warning from our local Environment Protection Department...why am I not suprised? :hmm:

If you are thinking of moving to HK, and you have children, or you are health conscious to any degree, and understand the pollution here, and you still elect to come here...


...you need your head read.

Today:

I can't see buildings I can see on a clear day.
I can't see across the harbor.
I can't make out any detail on what hills I can see.

[Lovely_Management]

There are 7 millions biotic air-purifiers here, we are just part of it nolens volens. Take a deep breath when you come round from suffocation in the morning and that might be the best one of the day.

We (HK) need your support (your lungs)! :ok:

[Busbert]

This is HK on a RARE good day

When you say that the viz is good, you still can't see Shekou, only 12 miles away...

[Kitsune]

It's well worth keeping this thread bouncin' along at the top of the forum to advise new joiners and wannabees what they are getting themselves and ESPECIALLY their families into.

Mod: Perhaps it should be a sticky?