Jetstar to Europe?

[Boomerang]

Sorry if this is old news, but here it is for those who missed it: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/3df46dde-80b4-11dc-9f14-0000779fd2ac.html?nclick_check=1 Looks like the 787s will be put to good use. I can see more SO's lining up ;)

[Boomerang]

Oops, won't let me access via the link. So here it is,

Jetstar to launch Europe service
By Amy Kazmin in Bangkok

Published: October 22 2007 16:42 | Last updated: October 22 2007 16:42

Jetstar, the low-cost subsidiary of Qantas, plans to launch long-haul routes into Europe in early 2009.

The carrier is also in the process of choosing a south-east Asian airport as its regional hub for the European traffic, a senior Jetstar executive said on Monday.

In the latest sign of increasing competition in the low-cost, long-haul aviation market, Bruce Buchanan, Jetstar group general manager, said the carrier was considering Bangkok, Ho Chi Minh City, Kuala Lumpur and Singapore as potential jump-off points for its Europe-bound flights, and will decide by February or March.

The carrier is now studying passenger traffic flows, while awaiting bids from the regional airports. The winning airport could gain an additional 28 long-haul flights a week once all services are launched, although he said Jetstar could opt to launch its Europe-bound flights from several different south-east Asian intermed*iate airports.

“The key for us as a low-cost carrier is to look at the cost of operating,” said Mr Buchanan, during a visit to Bangkok.

In pushing to expand its regional low-cost service into the intercontinental market between Asia and Europe, Jetstar will compete with AirAsia X, a newly formed joint venture between the Malaysian-based budget carrier AirAsia and Sir Richard Branson’s Virgin Group.

AirAsia X, scheduled to launch its first long-haul service to Australia next month, hopes to start direct services to the UK by October 2008.

Jetstar, which is due to take delivery of 15 Boeing 787 Dreamliners in 2009, has yet to decide on its own European routes but is considering Athens, Rome, Paris, Munich and Amsterdam as potential destinations.

Mr Buchanan said Jetstar had been in discussion with Airports of Thailand, the listed Thai airport operator, about using either its one-year-old Suvarnabhumi Airport, or its older Don Muang Airport, as a hub.

While Thailand’s relative proximity to Europe – compared with the other possible hubs – is a plus, the cost of using either of Bangkok’s two airports is now about twice the cost of using Singapore or Kuala Lumpur, calculated on a per passenger basis.

Even low-cost carriers that have switched some of their flights back to Don Muang from Suvarnabhumi are still being charged the same high landing and passenger fees that apply at the new airport.

But, Mr Buchanan said: “If they can come up with a plan that may involve the old airport, that would be very interesting for us in terms of ‘can we get the cost structure to a level that would be competitive with those other intermediate points?’ ”

Jetstar currently operates flights three times a week between Bangkok and Melbourne, and thrice weekly flights between Sydney and Phuket.

Extract from The Financial Times Limited 2007

[Wingspar]

Surely Ho Chi Minh would be running first with Pacific and the associated network benefits!

Assuming they get the right deal of course.

[Going Boeing]

This plan has been public for a while now - in particular Athens and Rome.

The main problem for the Leprachaun is finding enough pilots to enable his plans to come to fruition.

[Henry Winkler]

Who reckons the pilots for these services will not be Australian based? Vietnam, well I reckon thats easy. Singapore, even easier.
Looks great for pilot opportunities in Australia. Yeah right.

[Wingspar]

Spot on Fonzarelli!

Basings OS without the Aussie IR hassles. Vietnam is looking even more certain.

The only point I would add is the inability to feed from the QF network in Vietnam. I get the impression from the FT article that SIN is cost competitive. Might be just spin but imagine the value from hooking up with the big QF hub there.

One thing for sure is someone in higher management, who shouldn't be there, will screw it up!!! :ugh:

[Keg]

If they crew this from o/s it may be a different story but I'm not sure they'll get many Aussie crew wanting to live in Singapore if they're offering J* T&Cs. There is a rental boom in Singapore at the moment with a four bedroom place in an average part of town (most Captains would need somewhere close to that to sort out the kids) going for $7000SGD a month. That price is expected to rise again by the new year. It was $6000 just three months ago.

Even with Singapore tax that's still a big first bite at your take home dollars. Of course it may suit the F/Os who will probably have four crew to a place like that.

Of course they may be inundated in the short term by people who want the 787 stamp in the log book and then are going to go and move on elsewhere.

[hongkongfooey]

Surely Ho Chi Minh would be running first with Pacific and the associated network benefits!

3 ( or is that 4 ) clapped out old 73 classics :}:E benefits :confused:

I wanna know how you get a 6 month delay ( optimistic ) on the 78s and still have that many A/C in service by the same end date.......................
Done much check and training have ya AJ :rolleyes:

[golfjet744]

Poor old AJ, he is really talking himself into a corner. One day the little thug is actually going to have to come through with the goods. :mad:wit

Let's wait and see what the delivery schedule from Boeing is. Oh, and let's wait and see who is running the show next year. :E

You never know they might make AJ actually deliver some of his bull:mad:.

[Buster Hyman]

I wouldn't count on it being called Jetstar though.....;)

[Wingspar]

Regarding Pacific, I just found this in the Herald Sun in part;

Apart from passenger growth, one of the big attractions in buying into the business is the air traffic rights to both Asian and European destinations that Pacific Airways holds as a Vietnamese carrier.

These include the rights to operate direct flights from Ho Chi Minh City to Paris, which is well within the operating range of the Boeing 787 Dreamliners that will go into service with Jetstar International at the beginning of 2009.

[golfjet744]

If they can get their hands on Ho Chi Minh - Paris and they use it for Jetstar, they're absolute clowns. Codeshare with Airfrance and then increase capacity by putting in Jetstar :ugh:

The frogs wont be happy. Unless Jetsar strike a codeshare with AirFrance. I am sure thatll make the french happier. Paris a LCC route :D

This company is full of it. When will the shareholders wake up and smell the spin doctor for what he is. :yuk:

Wish he would run the airline instead of protecting his own :oh:

[SkyScanner]

Can the bus make SIN-ATH or FCO? Thought BKK or HCM would be closer especially if they start up Manchester or north-west europe...

[RedTBar]

Imagine sitting in a J* seat all the way from Sydney to Europe.Honolulu is bad enough but Europe:yuk:

[flyingins]

Oh for god's sake. Why don't you all go out to your nearest DFO and treat yourselves to a brand new handbag?

I can't recall reading such monumental drivel since mid-2003, when those of your ilk started to bleat on along the lines of; "Jetstar will be crewed by QF Mainline - end of story" and "Jetstar's having to pay the Cairns refueller with cash - the end is nigh".

Why don't you try something revolutionary like offering a positive opinion for a change - doesn't have to be about JQ. ANYTHING will do.

What a bunch of whining little girls. :ugh:

[RedTBar]

flyingins,

So you don't mind sitting in the J* seats from Sydney to Europe?

Then again if you buy yourself a handbag whenever your upset maybe you would like fly Jokestar to europe.

[The Kavorka]

people will sit in what ever seat they can afford!!!

if having a lcc travelling to europe or any other o/s destination at a cheap price then good luck to them...

if you want a first class service fly Qantas...(:yuk::yuk: NOT!!!!!!!!!)

[Paper Planes]

people will sit in what ever seat they can afford!!!


Very true even if it means sacrificing their comfort & safety. I gave Jet* a chance a few years ago. Never again. Cramped seating & having to arrive at the airport early to get a good seat. Maybe they will lift their game on the international flights? I doubt it :yuk:

[The Kavorka]

JQ allocated seating came in long ago, also cramped seats??...they are the biggest economy seats in aust!!

Also P P, I think punters are safe on any aust carrier regardless of price!!!

[Paper Planes]

Well Kavorka maybe I'll have to take another flight on Jet* since they have changed things. It's been awhile.....

I am more of a VB guy

[Prado]

PP, start with a Tigga flight and work your way up.....:)

The J* longhaul is a reasonable product according to those who've actually flown it. One wouldn't imagine it would be any lesser on european routes, particulary travelling on brand spanking new aircraft.

What does look like happening is some new routes being opened up so the travelling public can avoid that cess pit they call LHR :eek:

Cheers

[indamiddle]

many pax into hnl get extremely peed off when a qf ticket turns out
to be j* flight.....comfort pack and a free drink doesn't fix it.
ground staff at hnl cop it in the neck from pax who are refusing to
fly back with j*, qf flights are full, staff have to fly home j*.
is the same going to happen when j* start european sectors sold
to punters as qf? all this does is create bad will, bad word of mouth
stories to friends and drags down qf reputation....again.

[LetsGoRated]

Cramped seats

PP.. are you for real??? Ever been in Q econ?(or VB for that matter) A tad more cramped than J star... fact!! Some of you guys really need to lose the "handbags" and get a firm grip on reality! Go low cost in Europe or the states and Jetstar is looking very good!! :ugh:

[Tropicalchief]

Already happens to pax transferring to JQ flight to Cairns from SIN. On arriving in Cairns, even though they are holding QF tickets and transferring to a codeshare flight to another destination, QF will not accept their baggage for transfer to connecting flight. The duped pax then has to sit with their baggage until JQ opens the flight. Same thing happens to pax arriving from Narita and connecting with Darwin flights operated by JQ. Arr. around 5am dep 1300. The inconvenience caused by JQ/QF policies should act as a deterrent for any further travel on these carriers.

[Prado]

Unfortunately, Tropical Chief, a lot of the angst would be solved if people READ the information on their itineraries, or as they booked their tickets on line ..... :) But, I guess that is just too hard for most, and therefore it becomes the carriers fault!

Cheers

[mmmbop]

Little AJ can announce as many routes to Europe as he likes. The simple fact is J* will get smashed by EK, et al. Of course the little w@nker will be long gone by then.

Letsgorated,
Print the figures 'fact'boy. Then everyone will see how full of sh1t you are!.

M

[Capt Kremin]

What will be interesting to see will be what happens to the Jetstar paradigm once Geoffstar leaves in a little over 18 months time.

Whoever replaces him may not be in love with the concept; and deliveries of the 787 may only just have begun, which may give further pause to anyone considering taking up an AWA to fly the 787.
A probable change of government only adds to the lack of certainty on that question as well.

FOG

[indamiddle]

when u book a flight with qf when operated by j* it shows a
qf designator with 4 digit flight number.
only airline staff would understand the significance of this, the
punter has no hope

[AN Flyer]

when u book a flight with qf when operated by j* it shows a
qf designator with 4 digit flight number.
only airline staff would understand the significance of this, the
punter has no hope

I tend to disagree. I've recently booked on QF's web site, with sector 1 QF and sector 2 JQ. At each point of the booking process, there has been clear distinctions between mainline and the star, (even different logos and airline designators for each segment). It made it clear to me three times that I was flying JQ on sector 2, even giving me a list of JQ terms & conditions under QF's before I had to tick the "I agree" button. If the average person still doesnt know they're flying JQ after all these steps, something's seriously wrong.

I do acknowledge that some Frequent Flyer booking itineraries (when you're put on the star) give a four digit QF flight number starting with the number 5, (ie - QF5340 / JQ430) - but from various FF point journeys with the low cost cousin, it also clearly states under each flight " * - operated by Jetstar".

People need to read the blurb. :hmm:

[priapism]

AN flyer , despite this one would reasonably expect their luggage to be transferred when connecting from one to the other.

I have flown Pacific Blue from overseas connection with V.B in Brisbane and , not only were the bags transferred we were through seated via a designated desk at BNE international. Pac Blue and V.b are considered as different entities owned by the one parent company, just as Q.F and the star are.

I don't care what is written in the fine print, it remains another example of why Virgin is crapping all over the star in terms of attitude and customer service - and developing a pretty loyal customer base.

That is why they will continue to get my business.

[priapism]

I forgot AN flyer,

Many punters still book their trips, particularly package tours, via Travel Agents.

They are not privvy to the internet processes that discloses this information so clearly.

[Prado]

Ahhh, so we blame the travel agent do we? If the agent isn't savvy enough to pass the information on, you wouldn't book with them again would you? (Despite the fact that the operator is clearly marked on the itinerary, with or without a codeshare flight number)

As AN flyer says, the t&c are there to be read before the "i agree" button is pushed. That includes the fact that luggage has to be collected & rechecked - hence you cannot book a connection within 90 mins if you are transferring from QF to JQ or vice versa.

As for VB, if you book 2 sectors in two different bookings, you are picking up your bags and rechecking, even though they promote through check. Often there is a marked price difference ($200+ vs $79 in my example) booking a through itin as opposed to booking sector by sector - the price you pay is having to collect the luggage and recheck. Not much different to JQ in reality.

Tigga pax will certainly be in for some costly suprises if they haven't read their t&c! But, who's fault will that be?:ugh:

Cheers

[White Pointer]

Simple solution for me: fly Virgin.

Going to Tasmania from Newcastle. First trip the flight is late, connection missed and have to sit around with bags till I can check in for the next flight out of Melbourne to Tassie.

Next trip a month later, I arrive at the airport due to a car accident and subsequent road blockage about 1 minute late after the 30 minute deadline. The inbound aircraft has only just landed and still has not got the stairs to it to disembark when I am told I cannot be checked in due to my late arrival:mad:. Eventually the aircraft was commenced loading 18 minutes after I was told I could not check in.:ugh:

Walk to the Virgin counter, greeted with a smile, told we have a special for people who get shafted by Jetstar, and rebooked with them. Bags checked through all the way to destination, no hassles in Melbourne. Staff made a point of saying they would always try and get me on if it doesn't delay the aircraft. Funny how they said my story was so common, even when flights arrive late they still enforce the 30 minutes before scheduled departure limit (in one case I was told the aircraft was an hour late).

Only downside, I had to use the return portion of my ticket to come back Jetstar. It sucked compared to VB I have to say.

Will I ever use Jetstar again? Not a chance in hell while I am still alive. How many people have I convinced to not travel with them after my story? Potentially quite a lot. So to consider going international with them, when they are such a novice style operator locally, forget it.

[TMAK]

Some people refuse to blame their own ignorance whilst they can lay blame on a supposed crappy product. Yes the itin are very clear these days, unless u get shafted by a dodgy agent. Each of the airlines are in a different league now, so u cant compare them directly. Jetstar is the cheapest and you get a simple point to point product with the bigest economy seats in Aust. Tiger will be cheap, offer less (less baggage) and have smaller leg room and seating area.

Virgin, seats I feel are crap, 737 is cramped and tired looking and you still have to pay for everything. Jetstar better seats, but cant thru-check bags, pay as you go also with all the same facilities avail, but its cheaper.

Priapism, the QF group have a solution if u want to pay more to have your bags thru checked....fly Qantas!! Its often no more expensive that Virgin on many routes. Plus u get meal and drinks!!

They are two brands (JQ + QF) suppose to compliment each other not compete against each other. Why also would u reasonably exopect your bags to be thru-checked when your contract clearly states otherwise?

I understand some in QF dont like the idea of JQ, but that doesnt mean its not a good idea. No matter who is in charge of the group...JQ will keep going and growing...it uses the assets of the group more effectively/efficiently in many markets than mainline can and so long as that is the case it will continue to grow. But it wont mean a reduced QF, just consolidation in some areas. QF will still be the 'spirit of Australia' in 20 years time. It will just have a strong little brother to support it!

[Bazzamundi]

Through checking of bags is one big problem QF and JQ need to solve. It was reported in the media that the Nth Qld Cowboys rugby league side was pressuring the NRL to allow them to use another carrier as they were being forced each time they had to play away to get Jetstar to BN then a connecting QF flight from there. The club was very upset about the length of transits they have to plan in order to collect bags and recheck.

However, its not just them who are complaining. A mining executive for a very large corporate client of QF's the other day was making a huge complaint about the same problems probably going to be the reason they change their account from QF/Jetstar very soon as soon as it expires.

Until they can at least do this, it seems the competition is the big winner.

[smartalec888]

Whitepointer: There are checkin closing times for a reason and they cannot be flexible for a reason even if the a/c is late in arriving causing a delayed depature. In most airlines this is common practice.

[TMAK]

Bazzamundi, this may be a valid concern for many corp clients at the mo. But I suspect JQ has to wait and see what fight develops with Tiger before they dramatically increase their cost base by intro connectivity. It is actually a bigger step than many would imagine. Mean while if big corp are travelling QF then they shouldnt have a problem as they can connect no probs.

Perhaps a solution for sponser deals like the cowboys or even big corp, a suitable arrangement can be made for them at ports where they have no choice but to use JQ, that they include in the price a charge for connectivity.

As for cut off times for bags at -30, all 3 carriers have this. But QF and DJ have a shorter time for non bag pax. The reasons are obvious for ensuring bags are on and load planning are done. But even more important in JQ low cost model that paper work gets manually taken to crew. There are limited resources on the ground to run these around if they are late. But in saying that I understand most ports hold check in open until a delayed flight lands (as there is a 30 min ground time), so I suggest claims from Whitepointer (told by Virgin staff) are either inflated or incorrect. Nor do Virgin have specials for JQ pax!! The DJ staff or agents use the exact same reservation system as JQ and they can only sell the lowest avail fare level that pops up, the same (in fact $15 more) than u would find on the internet at the exact same time! The staff has zero influence over it.

I think all 3 carriers have their pro's and con's and they have balanced themselves very cleverly across the market. With Virgin now looking to take on the high yield business market (with prem econ seats being intro for 737) as tiger moves in and targets the lower end. Of course this means JQ prob will (and should) hold off too many fancy things as they will need to fight Tiger for the QF Group. It will be an interesting 12 months ahead. Good for the consumer.