Club 328

[Raethmeon]

We have all been aware over the years of the Bookajet story and then club328' great plans. However I now see that Club 328 have been bought out.
It would seem that "Club328" have been bought out by a company called Planechartering and Mitre Aviation.
From what I can gather, Plane chartering are new to the aviation business (less than 2 years) and were operating 2 Citation 550's and a beech 90. However there is no record of an AOC for either of these companies.
Club328 have recently been advertising for flight crews through CTC.
What does anyone know anything about this new organisation.

Who are they?
What aircraft are they going to be operating, I thought Club 328 had premier1, Hawkers and Dornier 328 on their AOC.?
Have Plane chartering bought the AOC?
What will be there base of operations? Club 328 are Southampton based, but the web site says moving to Biggin Hill. But they seem to also have a base in LFMD
Are the crews from Southampton Moving?
Are the operations staff moving?
Does anyone know of their future plans?

[Flintstone]

Planechartering are/were operating under the AOC of Xclusive Jet in Bournemouth. Having operated under Xclusive's auspices I am happy to say I have no argument with them, quite the opposite. Planechartering on the other hand did not exactly fill me with joy during our (brief) association and I made my way swiftly in the opposite direction.

Sitting firmly on the fence the difficulties I encountered might have been just teething troubles. Their origins are, I believe, in the world of boat charters and certainly when I dealt with them they were somewhat........vague in matters aviation.

I've had no dealings with them for over a year though and would bow to the opinion of someone more recently associated.

[SiTurn]

Have only had a brief experience of planechartering and I wont be repeating it. Used one of their aircraft and the whole episode was a nightmare from start to finish. I also spoke to people at Xclusive earlier in the year who said that planechartering wouldnt be on their AOC for much longer as they 'arent performing as they should be'......

That said, buying 328 is a ready made fix to those problems.....:bored:

[Tequilaboy]

Cant say if Planechartering jumped or was pushed from their hosted AOC however i understand there was an urgent need for them to get their own AOC and club328 was the best available????? 328 was bought for £1 from what i am led to believe and the deal was the aircraft and debt which according to a KPMG prospectus that passed before my eyes was a balance sheet debt of +50m.

Dont know the ins and outs of the deal but the crews are remaining in SOU and the operations are being moved to BQH. Not had a huge amount to deal with Plane Chartering due to the calibre of some of my clients. A glass of wine per passenger and some crisps which is their standard fare according to their quotations does not really cut it for clients paying in excess of €10,000 for a flight! Having said that I have not heard anything negative about them and both Claude and Chantal are nice peeps

[Flintstone]

Agreed. Claude's a very nice guy and pleasant to deal with. Back then though I had the impression they were feeling their way somewhat and this coupled with a few other things made me feel uncomfortable.

[TurboJ]

Not had a huge amount to deal with Plane Chartering due to the calibre of some of my clients. A glass of wine per passenger and some crisps which is their standard fare according to their quotations does not really cut it for clients paying in excess of €10,000 for a flight!

They would do well with Club328 then......

[IOMspotter]

Any of you boys down South know where Euromanx fit into the new equasion:confused: Lots of rumours here on Fraggle that Club 328 and 3W and will be cosying up, sharing AOC's, aircraft type, spares, maintenance and crews.:hmm: If someones taken on £50m of liabilitys ther must be a plan somewhere:bored:

[Tequilaboy]

Given that 328 are no longer part of the CJS group I seriously doubt there will be anything between the 2 and also there is no way that EMX would be able to operate on 328's aoc as it is a completely different operating license.

[angelorange]

Now only want Type rated individuals according to CTC.

[GBNGH]

Has 328 Ops moved to Biggin yet?

[FlyingGasMain]

Not yet. They're planning to move early in the New Year

[SWBKCB]

Do they still operate Dornier Jet G-CJAB? If so anybody know why it's parked up at Newcastle - been a couple of weeks now?

[Jetscream 32]

ouch...!!! thats gonna hurt - bet that wasnt in the investment prospectus....:E

[blablablafly]

If you cannot handle that you should not be in this business... :8

Too many startups are started on information of the manufacturer telling you what the (US!) cost per hour of an aircraft will be. None tells you about the cost of blowing an engine and your "Gold" power by the hour program telling you it was because the pilot f**ked up..... :*

[SWBKCB]

Departed NCL last night (28/01) - somebody must have fished all the loose change from down the back of the sofa...

[TSandPSintheGREEN]

has anyone heard that Club328 / Plane chartering are going into liquidation? Apparently the debt of £50M has been written off by the banks (sounds unlikely to me but then - it's possible, they are, after all, not a third world country :}) Apparently all the staff were called in for a general announcement on Wednesday... One wonders what's going on there - I believe a lot of their aircraft have been grounded for ages due to CAA issues...

[Tequilaboy]

I know of someone with a rather substantial charter bill that is now going unpaid because of 328 going bust but to be fair it has been on the cards for years. I believe the phrase that waas used in the office this morning was 'if plane chartering come to us for a charter, tell them to go f*** themselves.'

Doubt Plane Chartering will be affected, probably a very shrewd deal on their part however that withstood they, 328/PC have shafted a lot of other suppliers through this deal I have no doubt and therefore as an entity whatever they call themselves judgement is out as far as if they can be trusted I would think.

As for aircraft being grounded I have no idea or reference re that but know of a few very unhappy passengers of late. Not going to start rumours but 328 service has been F*cked for months both operationally and customer services, not to put to finer point on it.

[Chicken Leg]

Not going to start rumours but 328 service has been F*cked for months both operationally and customer services, not to put to finer point on it.

That'll be you starting rumours then! :rolleyes:

[Tequilaboy]

... thats from being at the sharp end from bitter experience!

[Jetscream 32]

mmmmmm but things can change, and they can change for the good if the will is there? - i think a lot of it is down to communication??? :suspect:

[Tequilaboy]

I genuinely hope things will change. I knew a lot of the guys that used to work there when it Was Bookajet and then 328. It was a family there, an envied family unit at that but management change brought the downfall from what i could see looking in and most of the good guys that laid down all hours of their lives have moved on now and good on them.

Whether Plane Chartering is the new owner to turn it round I dont know, only time will tell.....

[TurboJ]

It was a family there, an envied family unit at that but management change brought the downfall from what i could see looking in and most of the good guys that laid down all hours of their lives have moved on now and good on them.

Sorry, but that is an absolute load of bravo sierra. They had a blatant disregard for CAP371, couldn't give a *&%$£ about not flying their pilots, had pilots flying 10hrs a year, pilots emptying the bins, running the photocopier, to the terminal for sticky buns etc......

.........and their downfall was the result of management incompetence.........

[Tequilaboy]

...on which of the many management eras you are talking about. Are we speaking from experience here? Surely CAP 371 and pilots flying 10 hours a year is a contradiction mind?

[FlyingGasMain]

Sorry, had to bite here. Which one of TurboJ and Tequilaboy have worked at 328 ? Tequilaboy seems to be saying he hasn't. And what's this thing about 10 hours ? I assume you're trying to say that they didn't give the pilots enough hours ? If so, that's true for one aircraft type perhaps, but not the others.

I can only speak from the viewpoint of having worked for them for the last year. As far as I'm aware 328 have been fairly on the ball with CAP 371 rules in that time - we had a good rostering officer well aware of the rules. She has not moved to Biggin Hill, but we have a new rostering officer and from what I've seen, he is pretty clued up too. We probably could have done with more crews and a more stable roster, but that's a different issue.

Also, it aint bust yet as far as I know. Things are far from ideal, but I am keeping my fingers crossed that things will stabilise. Time will tell....

[LGW Vulture]

What's happened to 328 Support Services and their liabilities / responsibilities over in OBPF?

[Tequilaboy]

Something to do with Robin Southwell and his Quest Aviation group. Euromanx and JETS were the only things retained from the group Corporate Jet Services.

[Tequilaboy]

... Outcome from a meeting in Cannes this morning with Plane Chartering:

Elain Young - Gone
Premier 1's - Gone
Dornier 328 - Gone

Any ideas?

[Monkey Boy]

Just received this:

"Further to our acquisition of Club 328 in October of 2007, we would like to update you on the developments within our company.
It has been a busy period of fleet consolidation and company reorganisation from which we have emerged primed for new business in 2008.

Our move is now complete to the new Planechartering UK headquarters in London Biggin Hill. Please note the new address below for your files.
We have a new Operations Team in place to manage all aspects of your flight bookings as well as new sales, accounting and legal functions in place to facilitate the growth of the company moving forward.

The Planechartering Fleet will now focus exclusively on the Citation II and Hawker 800 models. We have removed the Premier One aircraft from the permanent fleet owing to consistent technical issues. The Dornier 328 has also been removed due to the lack of range for such a large size cabin.
We are pleased to announce the arrival today of an additional Hawker 800 registration G-WYNN available for charter. This beautifully finished model complements the existing Hawker 800 which has proved to be very popular with our long range clients. In the next 4 months we expect to take delivery of a Falcon 50 in time for the summer season. Please don’t hesitate to call our sales team for more information and pricing on these models.

We pride ourselves on providing efficient and competitive sub-charter services to the wholesale market."

[robash]

mmmmmm, interesting, anyone know where the P1/328 have gone to?

[Tequilaboy]

Just got the same,

Smoke and Mirrors to me to be honest. The Premier 1's i can agree as they were 1's with retrofitted 1A mods but the Dornier is a good, well placed machine. Ok the cabin required a spruce up but as far as economy I could not argue with it.

[Monkey Boy]

"mmmmmm, interesting, anyone know where the P1/328 have gone to?"

Don't know about the Premiers (have to agree about the reliablility) but the Dornier I believe is heading to Eastern Europe.

[TP102]

The Dornier was currently broken (FADEC) so that prob had something to do with it if they were in the process of reorganising.
I view the email above to be a positive thing. We can only hope that it goes according to plan and the remaining employees might be able to relax slightly.
If things have gone badly then really the only option is to cut out whatever isn't working in the business, even if its a harsh call, and try to move forward with a positive attitude with the new plan. Its either that or give up and that doesn't help anyone!
I only hope those guys and girls who have lost their jobs find new employment soon as they are the real fallout from bad business.
TP.

[421]

Shame the reg they state for the Hawker 800 is for a Rand KR-2 that was cancelled by the CAA nearly 4 years ago.....

[TurboJ]

Surely CAP 371 and pilots flying 10 hours a year is a contradiction mind?

I guess its all history now, but we are talking different scenarios. Pilots were flown 10hrs a year, days off were retrospective, standby days were turned into days off if not required, days off were only days off if you weren't required to fly......etc etc

If so, that's true for one aircraft type perhaps, but not the others.


Yes, the Dornier crews flew all of 200hrs a year !!

From my experience, the company was a complete joke and although some people have lost their jobs, in months to come they may see it as a very positive move.........

[long final]

The new Hawker 800 is G-WYNE.

[Monkey Boy]

And that's the sort of attention to detail we've come to expect.........

[TP102]

Monkey Boy,
Might I ask what relationship you have had with company in the past?

It does seem to me some people almost want this new setup to fail.
Whenever there is rumour on here, if its negative its sure does get talked about a lot more than if its positive.

I'm sure its because my future is currently tied up in this venture but I certainly hope this can be turned around and a well run, successful business formed out of an awful mess.

Wouldn't it be nice to just wish us all some success for once even if that's less dramatic news than saying we're all going down?!

Just a thought,

TP.

[Monkey Boy]

My relationship with the company? Simple, I've paid lots of money to Club 328 in the past for them to perform flights for my clients. Every flight (and I mean EVERY flight) has had a problem - be it the brakes failing on the Premier 1 on landing closing an airport with a full emergency to having a flight delayed for three hours with a puncture on the Dornier, through to being told at the last minute that the aircraft I've had booked for weeks is no longer available a day before the flight, or that the aircraft can't use the airport we've requested it to fly into DESPITE insisting that this is double, nay triple checked with Club 328 ops prior to confirmation.

I don't want any venture to fail, all I want is for operators to provide the service for which I am paying them for. If Plane Chartering can do this, then they have my full support! Club 328 couldn't, so they didn't!

[TP102]

Well said. I agree with you entirely.
Its a shame that Club328 couldn't perform. Lets indeed hope and encourage Planechartering to do so.
The question is will you be giving them a chance and booking any clients with them or is the link with 328 too much.
I guess reputation carries a lot in this business and must be built up slowly through trust.
I sincerely hope Planechartering's reputation isn't too tarnished to make it through.
TP.

[Steak&Kidney_Pie]

Anyone who is hopeful that Club328 will improve under PlaneChartering is exactly that.

TP102, PC's reputation is already out there! I do wish you the very best if you are tied into the venture, just becareful, note the PlaneChartering's Initial....PC.....need anyone say more?

[merlinxx]

C328 ops was a shambles, some what like another that calls it's self 247. Take the dosh and don't deliver. Brokers around Europe and beyond have them black listed. I just love and appreciate a 'can do' attitude from professionals, but not from unknowledgeable* ops clerks and numpty double glazing salesmen with superior, and arrogant attitudes!

*Airport/Runway analysis is one point you made, well quoted! How about service delivery accounting/accountability, would they make ISO9001?

Use the best and leave the cowboys to fight for the penny pinching crap market share!

[Phil Brockwell]

Has anyone used Planechartering, any feedback?

I heard some odd rumours about catering and waiting time, anyone clarify these?

What is the overall opinion of the 328 Envoy (if operated correctly).

Phil

[Monkey Boy]

As far as I can see it, Club 328 should've cleaned up with the 328. It's a rare bear in Europe and unique in the UK. If managed properly, then it should've been flying all the time. However, it seems that this particular one seemed to spend most of it's time in pieces in a hangar somewhere waiting to be glued back together!

With Plane Chartering, you've not really got anything of Club 328 left (ok, the Hawker). So, what you're left with now are two Citation II's which are hardly difficult to come by in the UK (most of the ones already operational are run exceptionally well - we all know who the cowboys are) and the Hawker 800's. The Hawker's may have decent range, but how often do you need it? The Citation Excel / XLS is a much newer aircraft with a decent luggage hold, or even the Lear 45 if you don't mind crawling on your hands and knees to get to your seat - if you need the range on a budget then go for a Lear 60. To be honest, anything over 4 hours then you've got the Challenger 300's or Sovereigns now, why bother with a Hawker?

To make Plane Chartering work they're going to have to be competative price wise, offer outstanding service and be contactable out of hours (especially weekends)!

[OOOHAAAH]

So, Planechartering are the new Club 328 ?? is that how we read it. I read in Aviation International News that there is an exodus of key personnel along with pilots, so who is replacing……who is at the top ???.
Be interesting, wonder how the industry is going to work with this entity from what I hear about them, or to be more frank, the ‘leader’, creating havoc in our back yard, disregarding the hard earned professionalism we rely on, and not paying bills, and staff.
Bodes well…..seem to have a good publicity machine working round the clock to make them look squeaky clean.
Off now to watch what happens

[ewe.lander]

Phil Brockwell.....

The 328Jet in Corporate service is a peach of an Aircraft. 15 tons of reliable Jet with a huge freight bay. Club328's G-CJAB was a hybrid with both Club and Economy seats. it has a range of just under 1500 miles and a slow mach .66 cruise - but so what! Anything less than 2 hours it was an absolute winner over any other Mid size Corporate jet available. It sells for 601 prices and has so much more capability short haul (apart from speed!!)

Club328's Jet attracted some very big names in the music/media/fame world, so why didn't it succeed? Buggered if I know, great crews, now dispersed to the winds, great price, huge dream (we originally were down to buy 8 of them)I suppose it's easy to blame Sales and Marketing, but I honestly believe there was a real future for the 328Jet in NW Europe as a Corporate Jet. I taxied past one in Milan the other day and still think it's a honey of a Jet.

[AussieAndy]

We used G-CJAB twice and on both occassions our clients raved both with the service and the aircraft. One of these was with PC for the World Cup Rugby and the flight, an overnight from BQH, couldn't have gone better. Gutted its gone as we had a flight planned for May.

Regarding PC - we've have had many dealings with Claude, Chantal and Paul and honestly can't complain, they've always been great and commercially keen. So I wish them all the very best and hope that they carry many more of our clients.

Regarding the Club/Econ seating, we always gave the invoice payer a hot tip - 'Be the first to get on!!' - and they loved us for it...

[Jetscream 32]

well wit a bit of luck things will start to settle down now - Elaine has now departed and Martin Bird a top guy is the new acc man - all he has to do is reign in PC a little in his ways then the future may be a little brighter - but at the very least a glimmer of light at the end of a very long datk tunnel...!

blue skies - summers coming.... yeeee haaaa!

[Kelly Hopper]

Is that the same Martin Bird that upset so many crew in 328 that he was removed from his position and given an abstract one instead?:=

[Jetscream 32]

in my opinion MB is a quality manager and accountable manager that takes no crap - and in both roles you actually need someone like that - after all they are custodians of the AOC on behalf of the CAA - are you saying the crews crews think they are better qualified and have better knowledge than those in post?

Or is it a skygod syndrome affect that seems to come about in all organisations at some time or another??? :=

[Tequilaboy]

are you saying the crews crews think they are better qualified and have better knowledge than those in post? - In some areas as far as MB is concerned, yes.

[Kelly Hopper]

When you consider Mr Bird "found" himself in the position of ops manager with no previous experience and would not listen to the accumalated hundreds of years experience of the guys that had been doing this for decades I think the resounding answer is YES!:p

[touch n' go]

Kelly Hopper,

I thought MB was a former highly experienced military aviator? Falklands, Gulf War 1, Northern Ireland, Kosovo. No Ops Experience? Sorry, I think you are way off the mark; but OK maybe not initially within the Civilian world, but he has picked it up pretty damn quickly. His guidance as Q/A Manager resulted in a complete turnaround last year. Yep, MB pushes hard, but he gets results. However, that can upset those of a weak disposition. You sound as if you have some personal issue with him. One thing is for certain, Acc Man is a demanding job for anyone; I am confident he will do his best, but he is a braver man than most. Let's hope he gets all the support that he will undoubtly need. He is the type of bloke 328 needs right now; he can cut through all the crap, stand his ground and try to get things back on track. I personally wish him all the luck and success in the world - he's going to need it.

[flareman]

What is the latest on Club 328?
It seems the aircraft they have are busy

[Jetscream 32]

and getting busier......! отпускает полет :ok:

[CFW's]

Good, glad to hear they're getting busier. Hopefully that means thay are also making lots of lolly......Maybe now the CEO will stop talking out of his :mad:: and pay the people who were laid off what they're owed and start running things as they should be for a corporate outfit, instead of trying to do everything on the cheap, generally cut corners and assume the rules don't apply to him!:=