Buying or building an AOC

[Gentleman Aviator]

I wondered if some advice was available?
How long, assuming manuals are written and appropriately qualified people are in place, does it take to set up an AOC for worldwide operations in the UK?
Are manuals available to buy or does each operation need to write their own from a blank page?
Also, how easy and expensive would it be to simply purchase the operation of a small charter operator rather than build the AOC from scratch?
Any insights would be much appreciated.
GA

[Yak97]

The minimum notice period for the CAA is 90 days to review manuals etc.
An AOC is more than just manuals, its a combination of manuals, personnel & organisation.
The general layout of manuals is given in the CAP 648. The part A - general is a fairly standard manual, the Part B is aircraft specific, the Part C - Route is related to the airways guide, Part D is related to the organisation of the training. Additionally if you want to carry Cabin Crew then you will need a Part E for Cabin Safety Procedures.
Additionally to the above you will need a Quality Manual - which sets out the Company Quality policy, procedures etc and a CAME - which lays down your procedures for the maintenance of the aircraft.
There are companies that can write manuals for you, the manufacture will need to provide the technical manuals for part B, the training organisation will assist with the Part D.
If you can find a Company to purchase this would be a possibility, but unless they already operate the aircraft you are intending to operate, by the time you have changed the manuals, employed the staff etc there will be little saving.
PM if you want more info.

[Gentleman Aviator]

Much appreciated.
I've contacted Newbould Ritchie to see what they can do for us.
Are there any others we should speak with or are we on safe ground already?
Cheers,
GA

[Capot]

Budget the costs very carefully...consultancy for writing manuals, creating management system, costs of suitably experienced and qualified staff who must be in place, premises etc etc. Allow for 6 months...forget the "official" period.

Then double what you've calculated to arrive at a realistic figure.

The cost will vary enornously with the type of operation you are proposing, aircraft type, maintenance arrangements, etc.

Trawl the market for advisors; don't go with the first quote you get. There's plenty out there, with different expertise areas.

Then start looking for an existing holder to buy control of, but note that the AOC does not necessarily transfer on change of ownership; you have to satisfy the CAA/NAA that you are suitable - in several respects - and properly funded for a safe operation.

[greywings]

GA, can't agree more with the posts already written. I also endorse Newbould and Ritchie, having used them myself before. However, they do sometimes charge like wounded bulls, so make sure what it is you are looking for and make sure they deliver. They are a business and will obviously try to sell you the whole kit and kaboodle, which you may not need if you have managed to source some of it elsewhere.

Also, having been through the process myself, I would suggest that a good FOI will make or break the project. There is nothing worse than having an obstructive regulator. However, you can make things (comparatively) easy for yourself by getting as much information as possible in advance of your application (does the CAA still provide a Draft AOC?), and making sure that when you submit your documentation, everything is in order, otherwise you will wait for ages to have it approved.

Good luck: it is worth all the effort!

[unablereqnavperf]

Have seen this process take several years to sort out! Beware of the sharks the road to an AOC is littered with them! think carefully through your reasons for havin gyour own AOC it may be easier cheaper and quicker to have your aircraft managed by an AOC operator assuming of course that it is anly one or two aircraft that you intend to operate!

I would say it not worth going through the expence of an AOC if you intend to operate less than 6 aircraft! As its not just the initial cost,there's the cost of maintaining it to consider as well!

Good luck with your venture!

[Phil Brockwell]

Someone should clarify the aircraft type / flavour, a Type A AOC and a Type B AOC are hugely different from an overhead perspective.

Phil

[CJ Driver]

The replies so far have focussed on the operations manual. To run a "worldwide" AOC operation you'll need an aeroplane too! And you will need not only a Part B that explains how you will operate that particular aeroplane, but you will also need a continuing airworthiness program and the appropriate manuals to explain how you are going to maintain it.

The reason I point this out is that, in general, you'll need to have actual posession of the aeroplane at the point you START down the path by applying for the AOC. And, as more than one AOC applicant has discovered, you will continue to have the aeroplane parked outside your office for the considerable number of months that it takes to complete the AOC application process. And you will NOT be able to conduct a revenue flight in the aircraft until the day you have your AOC in your hand, so it sits there burning an astonishing hole in your cash flow whilst you wish the CAA could go a little bit quicker.

Would-be AOC operators have actually gone bust before they get the AOC simply from inadequately funding the cost of putting an aircraft on the ramp while they sort out the paperwork.

I suspect this is why many new AOC operators start from the basis of a wealthy private operator who already owns an aircraft and wants to add a charter revenue stream.

[African Drunk]

Beware of Newbould Ritchie they did an AOC for hangar 8. I saw the reply from the CAA it mostly consisted of " this should be in Part .. " x 80. Not very good at all. Hangar 8 scrapped it and started again.

[Gentleman Aviator]

Thanks everyone, sorry to have taken so long to reply.
Appreciate all the advice here.

If not Newbould Ritchie, who else is recommended?

Cheers,

GA

[Tequilaboy]

Sent you a PM with someone that can help. Contact me should you require some more information.

Thanks

[Winston]

Hi. Have sent you PM