Grade 1 Salary

[Ozgrade3]

Ok the award gives a Grade1 Multi-IFR below 3500 kg about 43K. n the light of the current shortage of Grade 1's, what would be a competative salary.

if on teh C-90, would that be also.

Not talking award, but competative.

[tail wheel]

Grade 1 META and reasonable experience (>3,500 hrs) $50K - $60K. Ditto for the C90.

[schoolboy]

FP_Ace

I know a Grade 1 doing the same for more, and he isn't moving either. That's the problem, not enough Grade 1's and those that are out there don't want to move.

[Di_Vosh]

That's the problem, not enough Grade 1's and those that are out there don't want to move.

I'm not quite sure how that's a problem?

DIVOSH!

[schoolboy]

Di_Vosh

Huh?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
That's the problem, not enough Grade 1's and those that are out there don't want to move.

I'm not quite sure how that's a problem?

DIVOSH!

It's a problem for those that are desperate for a Grade 1 or 2 to keep their businesss's operating. If you follow some of the other threads you will see (I hope!) that these people are a minority and in demand all over OZ. If some of them decide to "up stumps", they can dictate, to a certain extent, the conditions and salaries that they require for an employer to avail themselves of their services. All of the whinges on this forum relate to $$$$$ not being paid for particular jobs. The Grade 1's and 2's that are out there can set the scene for all to gain in the long run.

[Pablo E]

If they move, they are creating a problem for the operator being left.
The problem lies with the shortage not with their reluctance to move on.

[MBA747]

I have been following this thread and like others, employers always try and justify a lower salary due to costs and what ever else that comes to mind. My daughter, who has a BSc, cost me nearly 80K to acquire a CPL,MECIR, Instructor Rating and the ATPL subjects.

Now for that outlay her commencement salary for a Gr.3 was in the mid thirty’s. To obtain a Gr.1 in the shortest time period one is looking at 18 months, realistically it would take 2 to 2.5 years.

Now you who have close ties with Bluewater Aviation in Townsville are trying to justify a salary of 60K or less for a Gr.1. I am sure the instructor you know, is the one in Townsville who happens to earn 60K, does not have to move and is a close relative of yours.

A 21 year old university graduate with a 3 year degree and who has paid18k to obtain that qualification can command a salary commencing at K65 to K70 with opportunities to earn a lot more. Yet people like you who themselves earn a good salary feel it’s appropriate to offer a salary of around K60.

Frankly, if schools close down due to lack of instructors it would be a good thing in the medium to long term. Initially there would be some loss of jobs, however once the number of available pilots decrease, terms and conditions would improve. This so called shortage of pilots is a farce. There is a shortage of experienced captains but no shortage of new CPL’s. The reason why most regionals are having trouble finding pilots is that they are asking for unreasonable qualifications to fly light aircraft such as the Saab and Dash and for that privilege they pay K45 and for a first year Capt. K60 plus.

The airlines in Oz are complaining about a shortage of pilots, however one has to go through an astronaut type selection process with the applicant paying for all the selection tests, hotel accommodation and simulator and IF successful commanding a salary of around K70 before salary sacrifice.

It’s about time people like you woke up and stop spreading falsehoods about this shortage. If a proper salary was paid there would be NO so called shortage of pilots.

[bushy]

There is no longer a huge pool of pilots that operators can pick from. Nor should there be. Some one commented that a GA company advertised for pilots and only got a few replies. What do they want? 100??
Airlines have had a "hold file" and "short lists" etc for decades. They had thousands to pick from, without any expense or commitment from the airline. And GA has been flooded with newbies who did not want to be there. Waiting-waiting-waiting. Some are still waiting.
The pool has now shrunk, but not so much that the airlines are committing money or agreements for training newbies. Or pay rises.
I think hell WILL freeze over before that happens.

[locusthunter]

In my experience, companies will always pay as little as possible for Grade 1s (or any instructor) and then howl like wounded bulls when they look for something better. The so-called pilot shortage is a shortage of qualified, experienced pilots (who have gotten their qualifications and experience at their own expense). It's ERPS (economic rationalist poverty syndrome). The philosophy is "the more costs (salaries) I can cut, the more money/bigger bonus I make." Expect the pain to continue :{

As to what a Grade 1 is worth? I think a M/E Training Approved Grade 1 with a Bachelor Degree and some sort of education/teaching qualification and/or postgrad studies shouldn't even have to look a job offering than K$65. But what are we going to do? Increase training costs for overseas and local students?

[schoolboy]

MBA 747
Did you suffer a hard landing and dong your head on the roof of the cockpit? You couldn't be further from the facts on your summation of my identity. Do you think the schoolboy of old would remain in his guise for ever, the new schoolboy is not who you think it is (or was)!
Yes, you did get one bit of your guesstimate right, schoolboy does have an insight into some of the things that go on at Bluewater, and yes if the right questions are asked of the right person, schoolboy can enlighten you a bit and correct your errors.
1- I am not, nor have I ever said that I was, as you stated, " trying to justify a salary of 60K or less for a Gr.1. ", I believe a Grade 1 is worth at least a start of $60K and progressivly more as the incumbent becomes more proficient at their task and company policies given, but that is just my view.
2- I know many instructor's at the one at townsville is NOT a relative of mine.
3- The instructor at townsville did have to move from his family, and regularly returns home to visit them.
4- My son has a Msc, and similar to your daughter, started off at mid $30k. He, like all of his uni mates have to prove themselves in their respective industries and as a consequence do the hard yards at low salaries until such time as they are proven employees.
5- If there is no shortage of qualified grade 1 and 2 instructors, and no shortage of chief pilots, why are there so many advertisments for them in the press. Sure, there are a few new CPL holders passing by, but that is not where this thread is all about.
6- How in the name of god would you know what my salary is (or was!). Having said that, it was tail wheel who mentioned that figure of $60k in this thread, not I.
Get it right MBA 747.
Does that chip on your shoulder need some salt and vinegar to make it palatable.

[tail wheel]

Cool it!!! :mad:

The question was:

"In the light of the current shortage of Grade 1's, what would be a competative (sic) salary."

I know Grade 1 instructors with minimal experience on $40K pa. I know of a Grade 1 Instructor/CFI on $100K ++ pa.

I felt $50k to $60k was a reasonable average, more $$$'s for more experience and more ratings and endorsements.

MBA747, my son is an experienced, well paid Grade 1 Instructor who got to where he is today the hard way. I don't have a chip on my shoulder about what his training cost he and I, in the way he served his apprenticeship and the meagre wage he once earned gaining his qualifications and experience.

Start a bun fight and I'll close the thread! :mad:

[schoolboy]

tail wheel

Touchy Touchy. I didn't mention you having a chip on your shoulder, nor did I mention MBA 747's (now I know, your sons) training costs, nor did I mention his rise to infamy as you just pointed out in his defence!

Now the sore point in my mind!

I didn't start a bun fight! MBA 747, your son attacked my relationship (presumed) with an organisation, attacked my (inferred) salary, my presumed innappropriateness to offer a salary of $60K, and then accused me of spreading falshoods! So Mr "tail wheel" get off your high horse and grab the reins properly. This forum is not yours to use to attack and threaten those who stand up for their own rights when attacked or misrepresented by others. Nor is it your sons to misrepresent the facts. Don't move the goal posts because the "others" are your son!

Oh, and by the way, I didn't question your post on the figure of $60k. you stated that, not me. I just pointed out that this was the case.

Get over it and leave the thread open for all to contribute.

[Hugh Jarse]

Jeez,

Chill fellas. Tailwheel's young bloke hasn't even posted on this thread - yet.

Having said that, the industry might be another Grade 1 short in a few weeks.:E

[MBA747]

tailwheel,

You’re a moderator, your not here to impose your ideas on us. I suggest you look up the dictionary to find out what moderate means. Nobody has criticized your son; I didn’t even know you had a son. If ANY pilot has gone through the GA machine for any length of time I would think he/she should be adequately compensated.

The point I am making. If one understands the Risk/Reward principle….. In aviation today, one invests a lot of money(risk) for a paltry salary(reward). It’s got nothing to do with one having a chip on their shoulder. If you feel a K80 outlay(risk) for a salary(reward) of K40 rising to K60 is a good return, perhaps it’s a good thing that you’re in aviation and not a financial adviser.

Unfortunately in the past a lot of people peddled this claptrap about financial returns for pilots and a lot of kids took up a career in aviation and did not succeed in achieving the higher salaries. Further they had a miserable lifestyle. Having been one of the lucky ones who made it out of the cesspit called GA I feel we who did make it should put the record straight as to the difficulty of obtaining an airline slot. In effect over supply exceeded demand, hence the poor conditions at GA level. It is now happening at airline level not over supply but pure greed from senior management.

As a moderator you of all people should be stating facts. At this point in time aviation salaries and conditions are on a downward spiral be it GA or airlines that is fact.

As I reiterate a reward of 60K for an outlay of K80 is pure stupidity. That is my opinion which does not require moderation. Have a good evening.

[schoolboy]

tail wheel

Let me be the first to apologise tail wheel.

I took your paragraph headed "MBA , my son......." literally, and presumed that MBA 747 was in fact your son. Now that Hugh Jarse has pointed out the genetic tie is not there, and upon re-reading your post I unequvically withdraw my attack on you in respect to this point. Thanks Hugh.

Having said this, I stand tall in regard to the rest of my post, and withdraw none of it.

MBA747

You got it right this time, tail wheel was off and spinning diametrically opposed to the rest of us. He is there to moderate the threads not impose his will.

[tail wheel]

Thanks Jarse! :ok:
Geeze. How does a simple question end up in a dumb bun fight? :confused:

I simply answered an innocent question and qualified my answer from personal experience, based upon my son's progression through the industry - not to mention, my own three decades in the aviation industry. Contrary to your comment MBA, I may also know something about finance and accounting! :E

The only opinion I expressed was my opinion of the median wage range for a Grade 1 instructor in GA!

Whilst it is a smart man that knows all his own kids :E may I add:
I am not MBA747, don't know him nor to my knowledge am I related to him.
Ditto schoolboy.I have no idea what you guys are on about, but if you want to have an argument find somewhere else - not this forum! :mad:

Tail Wheel