Vista Jet

[FL470]

Does anybody have any information (roster, salary, other conditions) about Vista Jet in Salzburg, Austria?

Any help is greatly appreciated!

[CaptainProp]

Use the search function :} or check this : http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=286706

/CP

[747drivers]

hi,

just been there for interview.no questions technical etc...mr.ambs flight ops is telling you things about vista.very relaxed.
salary depends on type:f/o approx.50000€,capt.on global max 90000€ taxed in germany or austria(45%).
230 duty days per anumm,33 days leave,10 days on 7 off rolling,company car audi A4 plus mobile for privat use.most flying out of russia.3 challenger 850 arriving in 08.primary used for russia-asia routes.base at any european major airport.positioning to a/c in economy.

[RJ71]

Is it true that you must be fluent in German?

[5green]

Is it true that you must be fluent in German?


Acc. to their webpage, yes:

What you will need:

English and German essential
Crew members must live in Europe (Austria, Germany or Switzerland) within one hour of an airport with scheduled airline service

[FL470]

Thanks for the information!

[skylog]

Can Anyone shed some light on T&C's at Vista jet please.

Pay, Roster etc.

PM if you wish, Thanks.

[skylog]

any info please

[deskjockey101]

Does anyone have any background on Vista Jets, operationally or ground staff?? Many thanks for the help.

[DollComber]

I need information too.
Anyone has infos?

[wondering]

ppjn got some info

[deskjockey101]

That sounds unbelieveable!! is this rumour or fact??

[deskjockey101]

Not only does it sound like a massive order, but i wonder what the Skyjet angle is?

[deskjockey101]

ppjn, I dont know what you mean? can you explain??

[CaptainProp]

I think I have read somewhere that they already offer a card-type program today...

[5green]

Google is your friend, ppjn was the first result on it.

http://www.pilotjobsnetwork.com/

[thomi1968]

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story_channel.jsp?channel=busav&id=news/VISTA05208.xml&show=ebace

[Don_Alfonso]

Here one article about there placed orders. 35firm orders and 25 options.

http://www.forbes.com/reuters/feeds/reuters/2008/05/20/2008-05-20T153137Z_01_N20310365_RTRIDST_0_BOMBARDIER-UPDATE-1.html

http://www.canadianbusiness.com/markets/headline_news/article.jsp?content=b052062A

[Jetscream 32]

Tag are/were recruiting for the Lears that Steve bought from European Skytime, on the basis that between himself and SJI who would guarantee utilsation they would operate enough to warrant the purchase...... whilst im sure Bombrider wont let him down - i bet his sphincter is twitching........

good luck fella..... you'll need it :oh:

[JRC0001]

Hello do you have futher information about vista-jet?
About the interview, I know that before single interview with OPS there is a group interview.
Do you know something about this first part?

Thanks a lot

[CaptainProp]

Although beneficial, as most employees are German native speakers, German is not a requirement anymore.
Interview is not really an interview, this could depend on your experience I guess, it is more of a information meeting where you are given information on the operation, fleet, contract etc etc...

Pay depends on fleet and experience and includes basic pay + night stop allowance. Medical and license renewal paid for, no LOL, state pension (ie don't count on anything, by no fault of Vista though), no private health insurance, company telephone, company credit card.

No company car for "normal" line pilots as far as I know.

Gateway system like NetJets.

Austrian or German contract depending on where you live.

3 (?) Challenger 850s have arrived, Lears, CL605s and CL300s arriving almost every month. Lear 85s ordered. I have no idea if, like previous posters indicated, they will operate all of the ordered jets but so far it looks like their orders has been placed for a real expansion and not for onward sales. However, having said that, they have a policy of not operating jets older then 3 years (see web site) so if they stick to this they will soon start selling of older ones as newer ones are arriving. Who knows.....?


/CP

[jr of dallas]

is it another low cost teutonic management company ?

[Cpt_Schmerzfrei]

is it another low cost teutonic management company ?

1) Austria is not Germany
2) What´s wrong with Germans? I find your snidely remarks quite offensive.
3) Maybe you should check their web page to find out about the company before you post? Low cost is not exactly a fitting description...

[CaptainProp]

Well, "teutonic" could refer to "Germanic people" too. Which looking at it from a linguistic point of view would include UK, Austria, Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Germany etc etc etc, about 560 million people. The common ancestor of all the languages in this branch is Proto-Germanic. Not sure what jr was referring to...? :ok:

VistaJet operates no managed aircrafts at the moment and are, as far as I am aware of, not planning on either. Although, I have heard about a jet being operated for one of the owners or something along those lines....

"low cost" ? Like the previous poster stated, not really low cost if you ask me. The package for crew is as I have stated above, weather that is appealing or not is up to each and every one to decide.

/CP

[CaptainProp]

....and the company is registered in Germany too as "AirExecutive Charter GmbH", Austria as "VistaJet" and "JViation". "VistaJet Holding SA" registered in Switzerland, all according to their website.

/CP

[Cpt_Schmerzfrei]

... all very correct, but I think you see my point, don´t you?

[deskjockey101]

Just so there is no confusion I am an employee of Vistajet and am pleased that the majority of postings here are correct. This is not an advert but would like to help my fellow ppruners to know a little of what makes the company tick. They are very forward thinking, different to all other European companies as they own their own fleet and have committed a vast sum to fly aircraft , not wholesale, and want to provide excellent aircraft for professionals to fly and customers to enjoy.

I hope we get the chance to work together as company owners like Visajet's are a very rare breed.

Hope this helps in some way and see you in Salzburg.

[jr of dallas]

Guys , sorry if you got the "Teutonic" on the wrong side as I was just referring to the German & Austrian florishing exec. management company....please take no offense !

the "low cost" cause mention was that 90 KEUR gross salary per annum for a captain on the Glex Jet (taxed 45% in Austria ?) for me it's real low cost....but it's just my point of view !

[CaptainProp]

Hi guys,

As far as the 90 K EUR basic for the GLEX goes I have no idea since I am not flying the GLEX. But what I can say, again, is that starting pay depends on your experience, type, no type etc etc. So there is no way to be able to say that pay for this or that type is xx EUR. I know that some people in vista makes more then the mentioned 90 K, but i also know people who makes less. You only get what you are worth on the current market, right? If they could get experienced and qualified people flying their jets safely around the world for 50 K a year then I guess they would. Right? Its all really about supply and demand and has nothing to do with "low cost" really....Remember, we are working for commercial companies who's only goal is to make money. Simple as that.

The same goes for the 45% tax, it all depends on your situation and weather you have a good tax adviser etc etc. I do not know the Austrian/German tax system that well but in most EU countries you can make loads of tax deductions for everything from interest payments on your house, car, commuting costs, children, school fees, double housing (if applicable), phone bills, private pensions, private health insurance, LOL, duty days on weekends and official holidays etc etc all depending on where you live and where your contract is (ie Austria or Germany in this case). I have lived most of my life in some of the hardest taxed countries in the world and I don't think I have ever payed more then 30-35% income tax in any 12 rolling 12 months.

Get a good tax adviser, thats my advice. Remember, sometimes you have to spend to save. My advice however is for free. :ok:

Good luck!

/CP

[No RYR for me]

More important question, who is the owner of Vistajet and how deep are his pockets? Any ideas?

[greenergrassairlines]

Can anyone working at Vistajet give me some details.

How does the gateway system work can you live anywhere in Europe ?
Do they fly with good SOP's ?
As they own their own Aircraft they must hold an AOC, are they then operating to Austrian Flt Time Lims ?
Where can one expect to spend most of their time working ?
Any idea of what Salary a Lear Capt can expect to make?
Tax issues, if you are living outside Aus/Ger can you sort out your tax in your home country ?

Thanks for any Info :ok:

[CaptainProp]

Gateway system - See above.

Good SOP's? Whats that?

EU ops flight time limitations as of very soon regardless of contract I assume.

Salary - see above (depends on your experience)

Tax issues - depends on the tax treaty between the country of residence and the country where your contract was signed (Germany or Austria). So in answer to your question - It depends, but I believe you would have to first pay in your tax and then claim it back to "sort it out" in your own country.

/CP

[INNflight]

3 (?) Challenger 850s have arrived, Lears, CL605s and CL300s arriving almost every month.

Only one Challenger 850 to date, two CL605s and one single CL300 afaik, all delivered in July this year.

[CaptainProp]

Ok, well not according to Austrian CAAs web site. Looks like at least two are operating at the moment -ILI and -ILY.

Then again, I may be wrong on this one. I stand to be corrected.

/CP

[mustangbill]

Hi,

anybody news from VistJet? When do they start with their new selection proc.? Any information about the Asses. an SIM screening ( wich SIM 737 ..?????):confused:

Thanks a lot.

[learjetdriver]

Hi folks,

Vistajet is still looking for pilots. If you meet the requirements (dangerous goods, CRM, experience....) you will be invited for an interview with Mr. Ambs.

Usually they invite 4-5 guys and Mr. Ambs gives a 2 hour introduction into the company. Here some infos:

- right now no roster because of the lots of supervision flights
- they plan a roster at the end of next year (prob. 14/14)
- all pilots will get an Austrian contract (no more German contracts even for the German pilots)
- 5 weeks vacation
- daily allowance
- company mobile phone (privat calls allowed) :ok:
- company credit card :ok:
- 3 year bond for non typerated pilots
- Type-rating: pilot has to pay for flight & hotel :{
- no direct entry Global & Airbus crews (seniority)
- salary depends on aircraft type ( CPT 605 : 80000 - 105000 Euro/year)
- Vista will introduce a salary structure within the next 3 month
- Vista also plans an assessment for recruiting next year (SIM...)


After the general introduction personal interview with Mr. Ambs. Questions about prefered aircraft, salary, cv, and minor JAR/EU OPS. Relaxing athmosphere, nice and friendly people.

[inner]

This is strange: they offer a good deal BUT you have to pay for your hotel and flight??

How many hours do you fly a month?

chrs

[inner]

Ow and what the average tax rate in Austria?

[dan1165]

LearjetDriver , can you confirm that non type rating pilots have to pay for flight and HOTAC during the type rating course ? :ooh:

[max.aret]

Tax is approx. 41,99% on 105.000 EUR or 39,48% on 80.000 EUR. Do not forget the contributions to health insurance and pension fund.

[inner]

40%???? So for a starting F/O the pay is pretty poor i think.
And what amount of hours do they fly in 1 month?

grtz

[SpainFly]

with 40% tax the salary is just CRAP !!!:= Think about Health insurance and Pension as well:eek:

What kind of Company is it that makes you pay for Flights and Hotels during Typerating ?!?:rolleyes:

Thats the problem with fu***** russian money in the Background, they want it all cheap cheap cheap:=

[AFTA]

"thank you for your email but I am sorry, without long range I can not accept your CV."

Is there a such thing as a long range certificate?

Oh well never mind, the pay is not that good anyway.

[max.aret]

Before JAA licences were introduced in Germany there was a separate Long Range rating and that rating was necessary to convert your German licence into a JAA one. Assuming that you already hold a JAA licence, they should not even ask for it.

[learjetdriver]

@DAN1165: Yes, you have to pay the flight and HOTAC during type rating. It is one of the great disadvantage of VIstajet. :ugh: This affects the ground course/SIM only, not supervision training...
You will get Salary and daily allowances from the first day of ground school on.



@INNER: they are talking about 650 - 900 hours a year. There are some guys who will have to stop flying in the middle of November because they have already 900 hours. But flying hours depending on aircraft type.

[inner]

OK 650 and 900h a year is a lot. But of course that's what they are saying. If they bring in the 14ON/14OFF schedule this means you need to fly lets say at least 60h in 14 days. I'm not sure if this is possible when you take the resting time into account.

Seems to me that a lot of things are not sure yet. So be carefull.

grtz

[discoveryman]

Thanks for all this information. Can I just ask how much allowances / per diems are paid per day.

Thanks in advance.

[learjetdriver]

I know for sure, that each 604/605 makes 1200-1300 h /year. That is quite a lot. Like most of the other compeditors Vistajet tries to improve. Since they grow very, very fast, things went wrong, but they are able to learn from their mistakes. One thing is, that they will introduce recruiting assessment to see, if someone is generally able to fly high performance aircrafts like the LJ.
The FO Mgr Mr. Ambs is an experienced ex-Lufthansa Cpt. I personally think, that they are on the right track. They offer recurrent training and sim checkrides every year. I know, that this should be normal, but I am long enough in business aviation to know the truth.


@discoveryman: allowance/per diems depends on the country where you are flying to. It is around 30-55 Euros /day. And, when you are flying, food will be serverd by a nice woman :ok::)

[CaptainProp]

Thats the problem with fu***** russian money in the Background, they want it all cheap cheap cheap

Not sure what you mean buy this statement, but as far as I know there is no Russian money "in the background" at Vista except for the fact that some of the costumers are Russian.....

CP

[mustangbill]

Hello Learjetdriver,

are you sure they start the ass. recruitment next year ?
Do you have any information about the ass. what Sim and ....

Thank you .

[discoveryman]

Learjetdriver.

Many thanks for the information. :ok:

P.S. Do you get fed up with the smoked salmon and caviar after a few flights :)

[No RYR for me]

One thing is, that they will introduce recruiting assessment to see, if someone is generally able to fly high performance aircrafts like the LJ.


Which implies that they dont do that now.... very reassuring :eek:

[inner]

perhaps a stupid question: does the FO have to clean the toilet????

[FliegerTiger]

Somebody should really educate the HR department on JAR FCL requirements... "Long Range" my ass.... I'll be giving this shower a wide berth.

[King Chav]

My application was turned down as well as I didn't have a "long range" certificate.

My answer was ... "but I have been flying a turboprop!!"

It didn't matter ...... the old cow at the other end of my email wasn't interested!

Mooooooooo :}

[No RYR for me]

Sorry to repeat an important question:
More important question, who is the owner of Vistajet and how deep are his pockets? Any ideas?

Anybody can orders a load of aircraft but who is bankrolling it? :confused:

[G-SPOTs Lost]

"Long Range certificate" from HR might translate into an "Have you done a MNPS course" on here.........possibly :confused:

[AFTA]

It would save a lot of people the work of sending an application if they entered RVSM and MNPS as a requirement on their reqruitment page. As of now it says 500tt and 200 IFR.

Oh and possibly educated the lady that filters the aplications. As i would think very few applicants have this long range how do you get past her?

[FliegerTiger]

BUT RVSM and MNPS are part of the JAR ATPL studies! Anybody who has a JAR ATPL does not need to do a course for these.

[max.aret]

Really? So why do my employers keep sending me to RNAV, MNPS and RVSM courses?

[mustangbill]

Hi folks,

somebody invited to the new Ass.? Any news about the selection ?

Need urgent informations!

Thank you !

[FliegerTiger]

Well it's funny how you don't need these courses to fly an Airbus commercially....

[discoveryman]

Could I just ask if anyone has been invited to an interview within the last few weeks ?

I sent off an email application over two weeks ago but to date I've not even had an ackowledgement that they have received it.
Is this normal ?

Thanks.

[CaptainProp]

Discoveryman - check PM.

[mustangbill]

Hello CaptainProp,

Any news about the AC ?

:ok:
Mustangbill

[Iver]

For newhires who meet the minimums (e.g., 2000 hours), what are the likely aircraft to start in as an FO? Lear 40XR or Lear 60XR? Beyond a type or time in type, what sort of experience would be required to start in a larger aircraft like a Challenger 300 or 604/5?

Does anyone know how many (estimate) pilots will be hired through the end of 2008?

[INNflight]

For newhires who meet the minimums (e.g., 2000 hours)

They have also had low-timers ( = 500tt plus ) hired, all go on the Learjets, F/O seat.

First TR has to be self-sponsored ( :oh: ), 2nd TR after some good time in the company ( usually the CL604/5 ) will be paid by company.

[discoveryman]

Anybody been for an interview recently ? Any information and advice about what subjects to revise would be gratefully received.

Thanks in advance.

[inner]

@Time traveller:

It is NOT madness. You join the company, so you have to do what they ask you. It is that simple. The fact that you can fly a 370 seat plane is irrelevant.

You have proven what i always say about arrogance of some airline pilots.

Good luck anyway.

[CaptainProp]

"Paid out of the individuals' pocket"? If you are working for another operator you should be current on these courses anyway. All Vista is asking is that you should be current when joining.

I believe some authorities gives operators a time window, after hiring new crew, where they have to complete these courses in-house. So if you are current when joining it gives the company some flexibility.

Good luck!

/CP

[G-SPOTs Lost]

Time Traveller

Why is it I am deemed safe to fly a 747 with self briefings and 2 day recurrents, and not safe to fly an aeroplane 40 times lighter with this same level of training?

Indeed why?

So where are you flying your 747 without MNPS or RVSM training within the last 24 months.

[Twin2040]

Hi - My friend is working on a large 4 engine Aircraft - made in Toulouse..... has very good allround experience, geografic and previous GA Command, has applied to VISTA last week only. He has close to 6000 hours TT.
Looking through previous posts in this tread - I tend to agee to some of the earlier things said about VISTA.

I did recommend him to apply to VISTA - I am in NJE - and he is looking for a DEC and time to Command in NJE are getting longer.

He had a reply from Karolin in VISTA: stating that he had to bring forward his salary expects - Is this some Bazar, where you haggle ? , no word about what they had to offer, Schedule etc.

Further she was again asking for Long Range certificate ( his on the A340), Did she ever hear about JAR ?.
plus all the courses, like first aid, RVSM.
It would make you look stupid - asking your current employer for these certicates and then pretending no to be about to leave ............... You still dont nave a firm offer from VISTA.

If VISTA is planning to compete head on with NJE - wake up in Salzburg !!!!
and get HR and not at least Karolin up to speed - they have a long way to go

[wondering]

FYI: Just out today, the new (increased) pay structure at Vistajet will not come out any time soon. With the high tax rates in Germany/Austria and no tax free flight pay, take home pay is substantial less than NJE etc. :ugh: :mad:

[Iver]

I guess they assume they can get pilots on the cheap with XL, Futura and possibly some Alitalia crews looking for jobs right now. That's too bad but not surprising.

With that said, can anyone speak to the QOL/schedule one might expect at Vista Jet? Is there a set schedule like NJE or is it more fragmented? Does schedule change based on fleet (i.e., Lear 60XR vs. Challenger 604/605)? Pay is a very important factor but it is not the only factor for consideration - better detail on roster/QOL would be appreciated.

Lastly, how long is seat-lock on specific fleets? If you get hired into the Lear 40 fleet, how long before you could bid another fleet?

[INNflight]

If you get hired into the Lear 40 fleet, how long before you could bid another fleet?

As I said on page three, you'll join on the Lear 40 and 60 (unless you have a CL604, CL300, etc... TR I guess), have to self sponsor that TR, will be on the fleet for 1-3 years if you are low hrs, less if you have some, will most likely get a 2nd TR (usually CL604/5) paid by the company and stay there on the right hand seat too.

Usually if you ATPL is unlocked at 1500hrs you are likely to get onto the Lears for Command, but I think that's up to the individual, you could probably stay as FO on the CL.

Disclaimer: That's what several friends working there say, current: Jul08 :oh:

[Iver]

Cheers INNFlight. Vista Jet is up and running (unlike Jet Republic) and it sounds like it might be a good alternative to NJE if you like that kind of flying. I would expect many furloughed pilots will be looking into Vista Jet and I hope the financial crisis won't completely slow the process.

[Grecian2000]

i think there was an earlier comment in this thread stating that the Vistajet aircraft are not managed on behalf of owners.

this is an interesting perception

from my experience, it is very unlikely that there are no aircraft owners in the background, when large or small bizjets are being operated there is almost always an owner or owners in the background covering the overheads. otherwise its a very risky business model!
aircraft owners often like to stay out of the spotlight for personal, financial, or political reasons (we have seen that many times before..) but they are usually there...

and before someone says "what about Netjets" well they dont own their aircraft either, the fractional owners do, and these share owners pay the overhead through their monthly management charges. If netjets had no aircraft share owners then they would not be able to function either.

if vistajet do own all that heavy expensive and no doubt highly leveraged metal...its a brave model, even braver than Jet Republic, but personally I would expect there are some big guys owning those aircraft in the background. Which is fine, its a more secure business model.

[deskjockey101]

Grecian

Just to clarify. There are NO owners other than the person that owns VistaJet. In terms of the risk, it is always interesting to discuss business models but let me suggest that if you really want to know how to make money out of a large fleet, call a local taxi, work out where they came from (their head office, or the nearest one available) and then look at what they charged you. Ad into this how much diesel they put in the taxi and how much of it they spend on each individual fare and also if they drop off at the railway station and pick up at the railway station there always seems to be 2.50 on the meter before youve gone anywhere, also where that taxi stays at night. Finally imagine if that taxi didn't have a home to live at, had drivers that could keep it running 24 hours a day, and the company who ran it had offices all over the country and customers who loved the service because the drivers were great and the taxi was always new!!

Don't let the traditional business jet mentality blind you to common sense. Remember, what other industry has had a monopolistic player at the helm for over 10 years, with a business model that is 26 years old!!!!!!, and in addition made some fundamentality disastrous mistakes about 4 years ago!!! As Dylan said "the times they are a changing"!!

DJ101

[FLEXJET]

I thought Flavio B. was the owner of CL605 OE-IFB... Did someone lie to me? :confused:

[Grecian2000]

Deskjockey from your posts I see you are a Vistajet employee?

commendable loyalty to the company line... however the fact still stands that where there are jets, there are usually owners...... whatever the 'official' line is.

:ok:

[Iver]

Sorry to keep bringing this up, but does anyone have the latest on hiring at VistaJet? I realise we are dealing with a bad economy right now - any idea how that will impact hiring?

Also, can someone explain the crew basing - are there mulitple domiciles like NJE? Rough "estimate" of starting FO salary on the Lear fleet would be appreciated if anyone has it.

[SteelGrey]

Sorry to bring this up again, but seen no answer to this one yet...
Anybody out there who knows more about the rosters for Lear60XR pilots at Vistajet?
I have been told you've got a max of 230 days duty/yr, and 35 calender days annual leave. But how many duty days can we expect in reality? For how many days at a time do you leave on average?
What region could we expect to operate? Have been buzzing around european skies for several years and haven't seen much VistaJet. They operate more east, I assume?
Thx for your massive response...:D

[Iver]

I have heard one week on, one week off with a lot of flying to Russia. That schedule could be fleet dependent. Further details and examples would be appreciated.

[Kent BeTrue]

There was one crew ferrying back to Moscow from Dubai last week.
Nice crew and seemed happy enough.

:ok:

[expatpilot4life]

Had a call with the CP today, seemed like a nice guy, ex Lufthansa. I am rated and lots of time on the CL300 so they are interested in me on that one. Basically the same as every on here says, told me the starting pay on the 300 as CPT is 85EURO but would change soon, thats really WAY too low. I do like the idea of so many days on so many off as right now i am TRI on the Falcon 2000EASy and pay is enourmous as its been day rate for the last month and for the next month or more but no time off. Only question i have for anyone is after reading that austria has about 40 percent tax, does that apply to us yankees? If so there is no way i would work for that, not worth it. I worked a few years ago in vienna on contract and paid no tax, but maybe that was why. Otherwise seems like a good company, CP was an honest guy the impression i got.

[CaptainProp]

Interesting.... I am not sure what kind of experience our applicants have at the moment but I am pretty sure we have plenty of experienced pilots applying with the current financial crisis. I have not heard anything about a pay rise and I fail to see why they would have to make any adjustments to the T&Cs at moment. Not saying I would turn down a pay rise, just trying to be realistic.....

Found this on an Austrian tax web site. Not sure how accurate this is but will at least give you an idea of the tax situation.

Beträgt die Summe der Einkünfte nach Abzug der Sonderabgaben weniger als 10.000 Euro für das Gesamtjahr, sind keine Steuern zu zahlen. Andernfalls sind die nächsten 15.000 Euro mit einem Steuersatz von 23 Prozent zu belegen. Bei einem Jahreseinkommen von 25.000 Euro beträgt die Einkommensteuerlast somit 5.750 Euro.

Für die Einkommensteile über 25.000 Euro und bis 51.000 Euro liegt der anzuwendende Steuersatz bei 33,5 Prozent, über 51.000 Euro beträgt er 50 Prozent."

My German is not the best but in short it says:

0-10.000 euro - No tax
10-25.000 - 23 % tax
25-51.000 - 33.5 % tax
51 and upwards - 50 % tax.

Then comes personal tax deductions.

Looking forward to that pay rise!!! :ok:

Good luck!

/CP

[Iver]

Thank you Captain Prop for your information. For pilots without type rating in one of your aircraft types, how determine aircraft assignment? Is it by aircraft available? Would super high time, no-type rating pilot be considered for Global Express and CL604 while lower-time, no-rating pilot would be considered for Lear 40XR? Just trying to understand where I could fit in (although I would pretty much fly any Bombardier product offered). :} I certainly wouldn't mind flying this VistaJet Lear 40XR into Bhutan - nice approach:

YouTube - VistaJet Bhutan Approach 12/2007 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3mNNL6F3js)

Another question. In terms of potential progression, how long could one expect on average to upgrade to PIC? If someone starts on the CL300 as an FO, would the first PIC slot be in the Lears (internal promotions from Lear through Global) or in the CL300?

[INNflight]

For pilots without type rating in one of your aircraft types, how determine aircraft assignment? Is it by aircraft available?

Usually all new entries go onto the Learjets, unless of course as you said, you're type rated. First TR has to be self-sponsored, 2nd is paid by the company.

I heard that there's no direct entries on the (single) Global Express, only internal promotion.

--

Not sure how promotion goes when you're CL300 rated already and have some good hrs on it, but if you join as low-timer, you start on the Lears, get your 2nd TR added if you perform well (that would be the CL604/5s), and then get back onto the Learjets again on the left seat.

I got no idea how it works if you're typed and have a considerable amount of hrs.

PS: The Bhutan appr vid is :ok:

[deskjockey101]

To Flexjet you are correct, and to Grecian this is the ONLY aircraft which is not wholly owned by VistaJet.

Grecian I understand the industry well enough to appreciate your comments and understand your scepticism. However, company loyalty aside, let me assure you that we are striving to bring some very simple and effective business principles to an industry which, outside the US, operates in a very inefficient way. I would ask you the following "why would you ever reposition an aircraft empty back to its home base just because that's where it lives". If you had no interest in the costs of operation aka private operation, then no problems, but if you want to make money then efficiency is the key. If you dont own and have complete control of the fleet it is impossible.

Business aviation is not easy at the moment, but I look forward to helping to build an excellent company based in Europe but operating seamlessly from Europe to HK, via everything in between, and maybe we will end up working for the same firm.

Hope this helps

DJ101.

[Donlupido]

since one month english is working great. one year ago you had to talk German

[alkor]

hi,

once again,

any idea of F/O salary (net) and how long to upgrade, roaster?

Cheers,
A

[DO328flyer]

I know some guys having some good flying time (above 1500) who start immediately on CL 604/605 as Fo

[Iver]

328flyer,

Thanks for that info. Were those people typed on the CL604/605 or did they have to buy their types? Were they offered multiple fleet types or was that where a vacancy existed at the time (on that fleet)? What types of backgrounds/experience did they have when they got hired (other corporate flying experience - did they fly 328s with you)?

As far as pilot domiciles are concerned, is there a specific list of domiciles like NJE or are they just the larger cities in Europe with many airline connections? Where can I find the domicile list?

[INNflight]

As far as pilot domiciles are concerned, is there a specific list of domiciles like NJE or are they just the larger cities in Europe with many airline connections? Where can I find the domicile list?

Afaik there is none. On the website it says within one hr of an airport with scheduled airline service.

[max.aret]

Latest rumour according to a German message board is that Vista Jet might be about to fold.

[Haubennotabwurf]

Why should Vistajet fold? They're expand strongly and have a good financial background...

[LGW Vulture]

Now that would go down well at their Oxford bash this afternoon! :uhoh:

[CaptainProp]

Crazy things have happened before in this business, but I think this latest rumour is just that - a rumour....

Still hiring as per last week, still people completing type rating courses etc etc....

CP

[speed alive]

a friend of mine is waiting for a contract with vista. They promised him to start s FO on the CL605. He is not type rated, but he has some good PIC time on turbo prop.

Best Regards

[Iver]

speed alive,

Cheers. I am looking for hiring trends for Vista. Sounds like high-time (with or without jet time) could get you a seat in a CL604/605. Obviously seat vacancies in various fleets and aircraft orders would play roles as well. A seat in a CL605 or CL300 would suit me just fine if I got a call :}...

[DO328flyer]

No further hiring at Vistajet till February 2009. And sitting on the waiting list :-(. Hope to get in in early 2009. My first impression of this operator is quite nice.

[yannick04]

Ok gentlemen; I am not with Vista (yet) just have some info for all of you:

Austrian Tax system is kind of progressive, like you could read a couple of posts ago: you can expect to loose half your money you make over 50k. The sozial system is not bad though - still I don`t know if it applies to everybody. They contribution 14 salaries in this country (by law) and number 13 and 14 are almost tax free - so if you do a little math 90k gives you about 60k net + per diems which are tax free too in AUT. They started up by hiring nativ pilots (tyrolean aso) and its almost the same salary there.

There is no payscale yet, looks like they are building up something, but it is still a matter of negotiation, the numbers in here come close - still it is nothing like nje with the nice benefit package...

The company is also still young, no details about upgrading or bonding, some ideas are just developing. As long as they hire dec's you might face quite a long time in the right seat or at least stay on smaler ac's.

The base policy is also still developing, but I know guys on the asian operated a/c's (14/14) who operate out of really small airports - it doesn't really matter to them, if they deadhead you out of frankfurt or salzburg/graz or whatever if it goes to hongkong anyway.

The ops on the long haul seems to go towards 9on7off, southeast asia is 14/14 as you have to travell, have 24h and come back too. on smaller fleets within europe there might be a 9/7 or even 7/7 developing.

Thats all I know, going to check this place out, still I am more into airlines...

Cheers Y ;)

[Flintstone]

Why would anyone rush to join a company in which you have to pay your own airline and hotel costs while on your type rating course? As far as terms and conditions go Vist Jet really are way, way down the bottom of the league.

[CaptainProp]

yannick - Could you please enlighten me on the "still it is nothing like nje with the nice benefit package..."-part of your post? I have loads of friends in NetJets and I am not aware of this "benefit package". ID tickets with airlines? Pension? Medical benefits? Loss of license?
As for tax I know for a fact that some corporate pilots, both some in NetJets and those with other operators, are walking a very fine line with regards to their tax situation/liability. This is also true for some airlines operating Pan-European operations today (Ryanair, EasyJet, Vueling etc etc). In VistaJet you pay tax in either Austria or Germany, depending on your contract, and then you make whatever tax deductions apply to your personal situation. No issues with tax authorities or social security. Yes, tax is rather high, but I have personal experience from taxation in 5 European countries and they are all very similar when looking at income beyond 70k per year.
Pay - Yes, NetJets has the advantage of offering same pay for all fleets. This is quite good pay for a Citation driver I guess, not sure what the going rates are, but how long does it take to get a command? My sources are getting closer and closer to 2 years for upgrade... So then you are looking at 55-60K (basic) per year for the first 2 years. Fleet - Citation/Hawker for 5-7 years before getting your hands on a Falcon or G? In Vista you can join, and stay, on the Challenger fleet. Fixed roster in NJ is very nice but not the standard in corporate flying, so nothing you can count on in most companies.

I am not having a go at you or NJ. I had a chance to join NJ about 5 years ago but had just signed for another company and decided to stick to my contract. I think that back then NJ offered a really good career opportunity, I am not sure the same is true for new joiners today. Do also keep in mind that you are comparing a company with a worldwide feet of 300 (?)+ aircraft with a company with around 20. Its just not the gonna be the same.

Flintstone - I know loads of operators where new joiners have to pay for their type ratings and get no pay, except for daily allowances, during training. In VistaJet you sign a type of bond, pay for tickets and hotel, but you get full pay during training. Which one would you go for? Having said that I would be the first one to agree that the employee should not pay for anything, but this is how most of this business work, weather we like it or not.
Pay way down the bottom of the league? Not true for all fleets. I know.
Why people would rush to join VistaJet (or any operator today!!)? Because there are lots of fellow pilots who have been laid off over the past 6 months. Add to that that many airline pilots have realized flying for an airline is not the only way forward in our industry.

Good luck to all and remember; There are always better gigs out there, no matter where you are sitting at the moment.

CP

[CaptainProp]

el caballero rojo - Why would you ask to join on a fleet that is not yet operating? The airbus is scheduled to arrive Q1 2010. Did you not check this before you went for the interview? Global? Why take you (as new joiner) on a fleet that probably half of the current pilots want to get on? A group of pilots just finished type training on the 850. If you ask for 100K and the offer was 65K, would you take it and be happy with it? That's probably one reason why you got a "thanks but no thanks".

Good luck!

CP

[INNflight]

There is one Airbus flying for Vista according their website.

No Airbus flying for Vista so far afaik. Good job on the interview quickie tho, I bet most of the people would love to get a job (or not get one...) within 4mins of talking!

[Flintstone]

Flintstone - I know loads of operators where new joiners have to pay for their type ratings and get no pay, except for daily allowances, during training. In VistaJet you sign a type of bond, pay for tickets and hotel, but you get full pay during training. Which one would you go for?


Neither of them.

[yannick04]

I am not quite sure if I got you right, Captain - there is quite a nice package coming with nje, the medical insurance is unbeatable (its for the whole family and they even pay for ordinary sunglasses once a year!), there is a loss of licence and a life insurance for the family and the new pension scheme should come out any day now (this year).

I also was about to say, that the own payed hotel for type rating at vista is just a rumor... but this has been mentioned already.

Well, I have got the right rating, let's see what this guys tell me - I'll keep you up to date, guys ;) (and girls, sorry)

cheers Y

[Captb747]

Just to clarify.............There are no A319,s at Vistajet YET!!!! :ok:

[HermanTheGerman]

..according to a german messageboard they have fired pilots of the CL300/850 fleet.

[No RYR for me]

..according to a german messageboard they have fired pilots of the CL300/850 fleet

Do you have a link?

[Iver]

Regarding firing the CL300 and CL850 pilots rumour, would that be because they are disposing the aircraft? I would expect the CL300 would be a very much preferred aircraft given its comfort and versatility. That would be surprising. Getting rid of the former CRJs would not surprise me.

[CaptainProp]

4 Captains fired. Still sending other pilots for type courses. You go figure. :eek: No more CL300s coming.

CP

[Iver]

Fired or let go? I'll be interested to hear the details on this situation. Again, you'd think they would transfer pilots to other fleets rather than firing them (Lear 60XR and CL605 fleets both use Pro Line 21 like the CL300). I understand that would involve extra training. Still, sounds a bit harsh unless they did something to warrent dismissal...

[yannick04]

Thats no good news :\ , but true!
They 'released' a few pilots because of delivery delays, hope the state takes over their wages for the next 6 month or so - they also going to 'optimize' the rosters and duties to the legal limits...:ouch:

cheers

[thomi1968]

"they also going to 'optimize' the rosters and duties to the legal limits..."

the roasters and duties are already optimized way beyond the limits! :bored:

[CaptainProp]

Iver -Fired or let go? - What's the difference to the involved pilots and their families?

Still, sounds a bit harsh unless they did something to warrent dismissal... You obviously have no idea what you are talking about. Do you seriously think that four pilots did something that warrent their
dismissal.... (it's spelled "warrant" by the way) Four guys are out, that's it. Pro line this, or pro line that has nothing to do with it........

Merry Christmas.

CP

[Captb747]

Some FD crew have been furloughed (sp) as some of the 300/850 deliveries have been delayed. Some of theses crews were employed on a freelance basis.

It is not very nice but considering the current economic climate, no one can really afford to have pilots on their books, getting paid and not flying...

[Denti]

Don't say that, Air Berlin employs around 100 pilots who are not allowed to fly but get full pay, all of them in the highest quarter of the payscale. If they can afford it though is a totally different question :)

[CaptainProp]

It is not very nice but considering the current economic climate, no one can really afford to have pilots on their books, getting paid and not flying...

But obviously no problem to offer the job to these guys less than 3 months ago. None of them were freelance.

CP

[His dudeness]

But obviously no problem to offer the job to these guys less than 3 months ago. None of them were freelance.

Just hope, none of them gave up another job for this one. That would be quite bad.

[CaptainProp]

All four left good jobs to try something new.

CP

[His dudeness]

So I´m just glad not to have tried Vista. Was 300 rated as well. Blimey, everyone I heard liked it there. Hope for the guys that forlough will be a short one. Bombardier does not get its act together again (we waited about 6 months longer for 300 than the original schedule) or deliveries postponed by owners?

[Markus109]

Hm as i know normaly Bombardier has to pay the salarys of the crew´s if there is a delay in delivery.

Greets
Markus

[Iver]

Thanx Kaptain Propp fur yur grate spellings lessun. I wuz merely askin sum kwestions. Know need too pop yur topp. It's a tough time for everyone these days.

[INNflight]

VistaJet only recently took down the pilots part of their 'careers' section of the website, so I guess it has come to a halt. :(

[Iver]

With Russia's economy also going into the toilet, perhaps they have lost a chunk of their funding... I hope I am wrong (pure speculation) and that VistaJet will hang on... We need more good choices for work in Europe other than NJE.

[V12]

and did anyone actually see the level of funding committed before the economy went down the pan...?

It's easy to announce orders, take a few deliveries, but these guys say they own the planes - no clients or management contracts behind them.

We'e they expecting to trade futures to make the bizplan work?

Smoke'n'mirrors?

[Captb747]

Der_Fischmeister

From your post I can see that you are nothing more than uneducated pondlife.....It seem sthat you are pleased the Vistajet could be in trouble. Find your small dingy little rock and crawl back under it.:mad:

[Der_Fischmeister]

Relax ,my friend!
Sometimes ,specially in these times it is necessary to do things u wouldnt do .....
Keep calm ....dont judge ..think .....

[dan1165]

Vistajet is my Company :) and will survive this crisis :ok:

[Captb747]

Der_Fischmeister..................if you don't want people to judge you, don't write stupid comments on a forum. It really is that simple :ugh::ugh::ugh:

[Der_Fischmeister]

Over And Out

[SpainFly]

How can you know it will survive this Crisis ?

[deskjockey101]

Dan1165, i am with you...and hopefully see you at the Christmas Party next friday.

To clarify, Vistajet do own the aircraft, and are looking at every cost just like any sensible business and are all working very hard.

If we werent looking at every cost, revenue, flight crew, rosters etc... we wouldnt be a very good company.

[dan1165]

Well said ;) !

[RAPA Pilot]

Absolutely......

[aviatn]

Dan 1165, I certainly hope you are correct. I spoke with a vista captain today and he is not as certain.
He claimed that the company is close to bankruptcy.
I truly hope that this is rumour only!!!

[dan1165]

Yes one more rumour :yuk: ...

[deskjockey101]

There certainly wont be any C300's as Vistajet is based on scale and the 300 was not able to be secured in enough volume to justify the cost of an additional type, in addition you can operate a 605 for not far off a 300 but with much more capability.

As for the 850's i think you'll find this had more to do with not getting aircraft completed, than anything else and so watch this space, and look forward to some more beautiful silver aircraft around.

Lets remember Mr Buffetts own words. The time to be brave are when others are fearful. (paraphrased)

DJ101

[dan1165]

:ok:. Happy New Year 2009 deskjockey !!

[CaptainProp]

Another 850 arriving Jan -09.

CP

[rjay259]

Having just seen the website it says that things are a bit better. Is it better and what would the state of play be for applying. Is it worth still trying.

Cheers

Hope its a happy new year for all.

259

[Misa737]

Hi there,

There are plenty of jobs around on the Cl300. Wynnwith has been looking for CL300 pilots for ages!
If anyone needs help get them to call these guys.....

[jetset2009]

That's correct

[CaptainProp]

.....and he was interviewed the same day as four newly hired captains were kicked out on the street.... No need to hire people who's got a messy background (not saying that he has, I don't know anything about the guy) to get a messy flight ops dept. It already is.

CP

[Twin2040]

Andy Z - sound like a non Austrian / German guy. Maybe he, then, can tell Hildegaard, Hulda or whatever her name is an HR - that German Long Range theory is not required anymore :}

[mustangbill]

Hi,

two questions. Is Mr A...s still FOM ? And do they hire Co - Pilots at the moment , (2009 any new aircrafts delivered? ):confused:

Thanks for any informations !

[homebase_szg]

@ Mustangbill,

you asked 3 questions, actually:

1. No, he is not
2. No, they don´t
3. Yes, there are (almost every month)

[RAFAT]

Surely you need 2 to satisfy 3?

[homebase_szg]

Well, pilots have been hired in advance to complete training before flying (mustangbill asked about the current situation). Also think of a crew-factor.

Regards.

[homebase_szg]

Regarding open position @ Vista:

From VistaJet - Careers - Current job offerings (http://www.vistajet.com/en/careers.php?career=1)

"Please note: For the time being our demand for Flight Crews is covered.
VistaJet is not recruiting any pilots at the moment!
If you are interested in a pilot’s position with VistaJet please check our website regularly. As soon as we start the new recruiting process there will be a corresponding note on our homepage.
Due to the high number of incoming applications we are unfortunately not able to answer every inquiry. Thank you for your understanding."

[Iver]

I looked at Vistajet's website and the fleet list looks like a mix of existing jets and future orders. As an example, it includes 13 Lear 85s on the list (clearly on future order). It also indicates 3-4 A319CJs.

Can anyone list the CURRENT fleet numbers? Specifically, how many Lear 60s, CL604/605s, CL850s, Globals and A319CJs? Do they currently operate any A319s? I realise that many ordered aircraft might be delayed due to the economy. Just want to understand how many aircraft and crews they have flying...

I assume type ratings would be helpful if you want to get hired. For example, CL850 pilots would likely have CRJ flying experience - right? And, I assume the A319CJs will go very senior.

Also, can anyone list the pilot domiciles?

Cheers

[INNflight]

No A319CJ's so far.

[homebase_szg]

All you want to know can be found right here:
Pilot Jobs Network - for students of pilot schools and experienced airline pilots (http://www.pilotjobsnetwork.com/jobs/Vistajet)

[Big Money]

From the Vista Jet website:

VistaJet, the world’s fastest growing private aviation company with the largest wholly-owned commercial fleet outside the Americas, announces a number of major appointments to its Board and senior executive management team.

Philippe Bruggisser has been appointed Chief Executive Officer with effect from 1 August 2009.

Did BC leave voluntarily or was he asked to leave? When business is doing so well, why does a company need a new CEO?

[His dudeness]

Is that the man that managed swissair to its death?

IF so: Wow.

[FLEXJET]

Very good news for the competition!

My sympathy to Vista Jet employees.

[EatMyShorts!]

Oh ****! Poor VistaJet... if you are not familiar with Mr. B, search the internet for "bruggisser hunter strategy".

[Big Money]

"Bruggisser, his wife and son have moved to France, allegedly because of death threats.(2001)"

It's now known in the industry as the "Swissair Syndrome" -It implies a peculiar combination of splendid exterior and unhealthy interior (courtesy of Sevanco Business Solutions). It sounds like he is exactly the right guy to get Vista cleaned up. Nice work. Next year, maybe there will be the "Vista Jet Syndrome".

[Challengerjetdriver]

I am looking at one of their 605 being told that the "OE" registration is being removed and switched to "N" registry. If that means anything,,,,,,

[Flintstone]

One that has already been used by them or a new delivery?

[Challengerjetdriver]

Used, I will get the tail # later this AM

[pullup hard]

Firstly Mr. Bruggisser will wildly start to buy all loss-making companies as one need to grow to be profitable. Then all services will either be outsourced or become independent profitcenters. In the end you as a Captain will have to sign the bill for e.g. "delivered cabin crew services" which is run under the "product" Department and which is highly profitable because you did not read the bill you signed. The company will end up bankrupt, without any tangible assets left(all aircraft are leased,sold and re-leased) and the profitable departments will be sold at high price so as the Management and Board can walk away with a nice profit..

History repeats itself...beware:ugh: !!

[Big Money]

Vista is going about it all wrong anyway. VJ needs to start from the bottom and work their way up. Get some experienced dispatchers (who can read NOTAM's) and a good flight planning system. This would make the flights safer and more efficient and save a lot of money.

[jr of dallas]

...and change the red ties?:ok:

[pt-wind]

VistaJet New Board and Senior Management Team

Dear Sir/Madam,


I am delighted to tell you that we have made three major appointments to VistaJet’s Board and senior management team including those of Philippe Bruggisser as Chief Executive Officer and Scott Plumb as Chief Commercial Officer. John Boo, a veteran investment banker, is also joining us as a non-executive Director.

Philippe Bruggisser has over thirty years of aviation industry experience and was formerly COO of Swissair and latterly President of the airline’s holding company, SAir Group, whilst Scott Plumb has over twenty years of aerospace sales and marketing experience gained at Gulfstream Aerospace, Airbus Industrie and British Aerospace.

With the world’s largest owned commercial charter fleet outside of the Americas, these appointments will help us to both capitalise on our leading position in the industry and to ensure maximum success from the implementation of the next phase of our growth strategy – a phase of growth that we hope will make VistaJet an even more viable transportation solution for you in the future.

We are revolutionising our industry. VistaJet’s priority is to help you find the right solution for your flying profile. The solution for you could be a Program, On-Demand or a combination. VistaJet consistently provides a higher standard of luxury and value, with guaranteed availability.

We would be delighted to meet you personally and tell you more about how VistaJet could be the perfect flight solution partner for you. Please do not hesitate to contact me: I can be reached on [email protected].

Yours sincerely,

Thomas Flohr


____________________________________________________________ ________________________VistaJet Luftfahrtunternehmen GmbH
A VistaJet Group Company∙ Sterneckstraße 35
A-5020 Salzburg, Austria



When he says "We are revolutionising our industry", can someone from inside Vista tell me what exactly does he mean?

Looks to me that he's doing much the same as everyone else, except he owns the planes, which means he can't make money; is that the revolution?
:confused:

[Cpt_Schmerzfrei]

With the world’s largest owned commercial charter fleet outside of the Americas

To which fleet is he referring? :confused:

[Flintstone]

....transportation solutions....

Why does every tosspot salesperson/marketing w@nker have to use the word 'solutions'? It just shows a lack of imagination which is a bloody good reason not to do business with the sheep if you ask me.

[deskjockey101]

"every tosspot salesperson/marketing w@nker"

what a way to describe some of your colleagues trying to keep you in a job!!!

Giving pilots a good name as ever!!!!! well done..

DJ101

[Cyberdragon]

Fair point but was there ever a pilot that didn't feel that he/she could do a better job of running the airline than the current management. They just know they can don't they. For example, this recession would nonchalantly be brushed aside with their ingenious plans and ideas.

[Big Money]

OH GOOD, DJ101 has joined the discussion to preach to us about the moral and ethics in General Aviation and how successful VJ is in these trying times. How hard everybody is working at VJ, bringing their buckets and shoveling the water out of the ship everyday. It's a desperate move and it's being sold as the second coming. The guy killed Swissair! Is it true that Vista is one by one leasing their aircraft to "Gov't Officials" in Africa? Who in their right mind would do something that desperate?

P.S. - And by the way, I am not sending you any PM's.

[pt-wind]

Well said, Cyberdragon.

It works the other way around, not! Next time I see the Captain at the point of stalling on the approach, i'll scream 'Pull Up, Pull Up!!' and see if he finds that helpful constructive advice.

[Kelly Hopper]

Ah yes but there is a big difference:
Why is it that the collective knowledge of the industry by all those pilots who have flown for many companies over many years is ALWAYS totally ignored by management?
Anyone in this business for a couple of decades has seen the mistakes made in the boardroom, and continues to see the same ones again and again.
Management and crew are on the same side. A good manager uses ALL available resources at his/her disposal. To ignore or discount a collective knowledge base of perhaps hundreds of years is all to common and wholly iresponsible. Egos at work again. :yuk:

[CaptainProp]

But if they are doing so well why are they offering contracts that, even in the current business climate and even for being Austrian, are nothing less than an insult?

CP

[Flintstone]

DJ101

Oh dear, sense of humour failure treacle? ;)

You misunderstood me. I'm not insulting aviation tosspot salesperson/marketing w@nkers. I'm insulting ALL tosspot salesperson/marketing w@nkers who, as any fule know, should be consigned to the 'B' ship* along with lawyers, estate agents, bankers and those who make the "quote" signs with the first two fingers of each hand when talking.



*History of the term "Telephone Sanitizer" (http://www.tlb.org/telsan.html)

[deskjockey101]

Flinstone

Now i understand where your coming from.........You Watch (nee study) "Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy"
Those lonely nights in your 5 star hotel must fly by, with you the internet and Sci Fi!!!!!!!!! oh and a box of mansize on the side, for when it all gets too exciting........

[LRdriver III]

Flint has a point, nothing more annoying than all those press-releases from all industries that seem to be written by 12 year olds who have just graduated from marketing-school where BS-speak like this is prevalent. They show up armed with all sorts of generic crap being spewed whilst milling around in ill-fitting NEXT suits and trying to re-invent the wheel.

Middle-management syndrome at its best, all trying to justify their brown-nosing existance to the boss whilst annoying the minions.

:E

[deskjockey101]

LRDriver

Flintsone doesn't have a point, he has a prejudice. There is good marketing/bad marketing just like good and bad pilots "ponsing about like they own the place, wanting limo's and 5 star at all times, and a hotel near the town because the per diem doesn't cover the cost of the taxi, and they need a bar with some atmosphere " that's equally as much bs as you get from any marketeer!!!!!
Everybody in business aviation needs to remember that there are loads more airplanes and therefore loads more jobs because nj marketing (no i dont work there) succeeded where the mom an pop shop dodgy management companies hadn't done for the previous 25 years.
You might think it's bs, but its kept 1000's of jet jockeys in work for 20 years..........don't kill the golden goose too quick, becasue remote control may be on it's way!!!!!!!!!

[Flintstone]

Aaaah, the old 'pilot envy'. ;)

DJ. My posts are in jest (which others 'get*') while yours clearly are not. Perhaps the current situation is causing you grief, perhaps it's a 'gentlemans' problem. I've no idea and are sorry you're bitter but if it helps you to make w@nker jokes at my expense then you fill your boots old son, get it out of your system (so to speak).

Anyone seen my tummy wipes?




*spot on description LRDriver :ok:

[The Beer Hunter]

Jeez, that your ex-wife or something Flint?

[Kelly Hopper]

It's the heat. It's making everyone so F@@@@@G DAMN RATTY! :ok:

[V12]

Heard a rumour (yes, Pprune is a rumour network) in Eastern Europe that VST is being propped up because Bombardier have deferred/supported their current fleet finance payments in some way to keep them solvent, on the basis that their demise would seriously hurt the manufacturer.

Let's assume it's not true, but for supposition, is it right for a manufacturer to support one of its clients, when presumably it is at the expense of every other commercial operator of the same type?

This is akin to SRB's view that BA should not be helped out of its current woes by third parties, as a bad business should be left to die, to create more opportunities for stronger businesses waiting/struggling in the wings, that may deserve to survive.

As the exam questions say: Discuss... :hmm:

[His dudeness]

THAT would be only logical. The Crews pay their ratings and the manufacturers pay the aircraft. Now the businessmodel can really work. :ok:

I´m off, founding a new operation with Bombardiers finest products. :D

[Duck Rogers]

I´m off, founding a new operation with Bombardiers finest products.



Me too.







http://www.bombardier.co.uk/static/images/bombardier/bottle_pint.gif

[Lever]

Hello V12; or shall I call you David?
Yep, I think I will call you David.

David,
Why don't you stop besmirching the reputation of Vista, and concentrate on running your own, listed, air charter brokerage.

If I were the CEO of a listed, Crawley based, broker, then I am sure I would have better things to do with my time than post such things about other businesses.

Lever

[Monkey Boy]

Lever - Think you might be a bit wide of the mark there, pretty certain that DS didn't make that post.

[Big Money]

An instructor has a popular joke, everybody has probably heard it, but in this case it certainly applies:

How do you take a big fortune and turn it into a small fortune?

Start an airline.

[Flintstone]

Q: How do you make a small fortune in aviation?

A: Start with a large one.




Thank you. I'm here all week, try the veal.

[homebase_szg]

Dear colleagues,

just wanted to inform you that VistaJet has opened their recruitment page again. Despite all rumors, VJ is expanding.

Take care.

[lpokijuhyt]

So, are they calling back the pilots they told to take a hike? What's the deal?

[homebase_szg]

They did recall some already. However, most of them already have a job somwhere else.

[TheOtherSide]

I am reliably informed that they are also recruiting for ops people in SZG. If you PM me I can give you some contact details. And no I am not working for Vistajet!

[LRdriver III]

Are they hiring non-german speakers now?

Rumour is that all their manuals are in german so they wont hire foreigners.

[FUZZYFELT]

The Ops Director and Ops Manager are British. Presume they both speak German but it's obviously not stopped their career progression

[Der_Fischmeister]

Well no big Secret that im looking for a Lear 60 Position ..so if someone knows someone who knows someone who needs a Pilot ..here i am ...

TT2200 hrs
LJ 60 >550hrs

all current
thanks

Please Duck leave it one day in here since sometimes recruiters or managment reads through..
Thanks..
Cheers

Fischmeister

[wondering]

They are definitely hiring. Some fleets are understaffed. Good luck!

[bizjetbus]

Be aware. Expect salaries way below industry standards and being kept on duty until it suits them.

Good luck.

[WiganWarrior]

The Ops Director and Ops Manager are British. Presume they both speak German but it's obviously not stopped their career progression

The Ground* Ops Manager is English (there is no Ops Director position) and "spricht ein bisschen Deutsch", if he ever gets around to getting the Berlitz course out of the cupboard it's been sat in since February he may even "sprechen ein bisschen mehr" :)

* Edited for official title

[FUZZYFELT]

There you go LRdriver III !
CV's to WiganWarrior !
I stand corrected - the Ops Manager has an English passport ;)

[Flintstone]

Whoop! Whoop! Thread drift alert.

...the Ops Manager has an English passport

I'll bet you anything you like that he doesn't ;)

[G-SPOTs Lost]

Nahhhhh I know the ground ops manager at VJ.

He just looks funny cos his ears are a little too far apart and his eyes too close together - so easily mistaken for somebody German or Austrian especially when seen walking around with a boxer dog or indeed somebody born and bred a bit too near Pennington Flash.

Rumour has it he took the ze german dog to the interview and it sealed the deal

(especially as amber knows more about corporate aviation than her owner)

;)

[Hankers]

"He just looks funny cos his ears are a little too far apart and his eyes too close together"

You mean Sloth from the Goonies works for Vista Jet!

[Cpt.Jingles]

Good+bad news for jobseekers:

Good:
VistaJet is hiring again on all fleets (see website www.vistajet.com (http://www.vistajet.com),
-->careers, -->Flightcrew
Looking for experienced and typerated Capt. and F/O on Lear, Challenger and BD700 fleets. Good luck for everybody looking for an opportunity.

Bad:
Offering insulting slavery contracts for the new joiners, the new contracts are containing some hilarious terms:

-Salary consists of a base pay + additional flight pay/day, base pay includes 8 working days/month, within the 17on/13off roster the remaining 9 days are paid with the daily flightpay.

e.g. Capt. Challenger, 1st year:
base pay 36k €/year, flightpay 260 €/day leads to a salary of
64080 €/year (before taxes). After taxes (as a single in Austria or Germany) this will give you a net income of only approximately around 32000 €/year.

First Officers salarys are approximately half of the Cpt. values shown above.

-Company decides how much you work, so be prepared for an extremely low salary with only base pay in some month if not on the go.

-Working times:
Roster is 17on/13off, but with crewfactor 2 !!! changes are and have been a continues situation within the company. Be prepared to stay 4-6 weeks on a tour away from home with short notice due to planning problems/crew illnesss etc. On the other hand, depending on the rostering departments needs, your off time at home can be reduced to 5 days/month anytime company deems necessary (delayed plane delivery etc.).

As a result of the low crewfactor they try to shift the financial risks and results of this bad planning on the employees back to keep the salary costs as cheap as possible and the companys profit high.

I welcome everybody as a new collegue, but be advised of the terms of this new contract, read it carefully and decide if you want to put yourself into a slavery. I know these are hard times for some without a job, but I really hope they will not find enough guys to sign this nonsens which lowers the conditions even more.

Cheers!

[Flintstone]

..........64080 €/year (before taxes). You're joking?

I know German/Austrian companies are poor payers but this really is scraping the barrel. I'd like to think nobody will apply but in these times I know someone will have to. I just hope that whoever does can find something more decent as quickly as possible.

€64080? That's small cabin money (and there's nothing wrong with flying small cabin aircraft before I put any noses out of joint).

[CaptainProp]

Flintstone - No joke. I mentioned it before on another thread but did not go into details... Basic Cpt. pay on Challenger 50.000 euro before tax. :ok:
Oh, and you can forget to work your "fixed" schedule, you stay on the road until they found someone who can take over.

Great business we work in don't you think? :}

Good luck, you'll need it!

CP

[Kelly Hopper]

Employers stupidity once again! Don't they realise that whoever takes these positions will spend most of their working time looking for a position elsewhere? Massive turnover of staff= increased costs! :ugh:

[tali]

FO flying C850 and 15000€ year??¿? 1200 month?¿? Whats that!! You earn more with tips..

[Iver]

Bad news. Makes you wonder if VistaJet actually cares about safety. Their poor pilots will be too worried about paying the mortgage and kids-related bills to pay attention to the flying. Let's hope Jet Republic actually gets started and grows so that it can attract the VistaJet pilots away from that slave ship... Ridiculous!!!!

[411A]

You know the pay going in, so, if it is not to your liking...don't apply.
OTOH, if one were single, no kids/mortgage/debt...it seems quite reasonable.
As a result of the low crewfactor they try to shift the financial risks and results of this bad planning on the employees back to keep the salary costs as cheap as possible and the companys profit high.

From a 'company' point of view, that is precisely what they should be doing.
Businesses are not organized for the employees benefit, they are started and operated for the investors benefit...like it or not.
And, I expect many won't.:}

[weido_salt]

411A

Agreed.

Also let us not forget the crews are their best asset apart from the machinery. A happy pilot, will be a "safe" pilot and tend to look after the companies interest, more than a pilot who feels they are being treated as a slave.

Since the "accountants" have the big say there ain't much anyone can do about it in the short term and of course we are all feeling the effects, in these desperate times.

Offer peanuts, you may attract monkeys.

[411A]

IF I were running the company, weido_salt, I would use the stated amount as a starting salary, then increase (big time) on a merit basis, for those that show promise.
The rest may well not be worth having in the longer term.
It's called...providing the carrot.

[Der_Fischmeister]

US -Business:...discussing the future of an European carrier while having again 6 Credit Cards in the Pocket,a loan on the house and mybe 3 leases on cars , to run the whole financial market inthe Ground ...

Sorry had no Breakfast... Cheers

[weido_salt]

I've just had breakfast and I have 10 cards. (Have you for breakfast too if you aren't careful, whipper snapper.)

"dollar down.... and a dollar a week"

[protogenio]

By all accounts the feedback i've heard from clients of Vistajet is that the service has detiorated dramatically,half bottles of wine left on board etc. and lack of care to customer service,perhaps the change in salaries represents the crew apathy,very foolish,good luck to jet republic hopefully they will have more integrity :ok:

[motherpupp]

luckily there arent too many yanks running businesses in Europe, but VistaJet management seems to be very influenced by them, at least when it comes to giving working conditions for it's employees....... good luck to the ones that have to go that way...........

[His dudeness]

Knowing some of the protagonists, I would say the threatopener is spot on.

According to sources currently in the company, the morale amongst crews is very, very low.
They make the same mistake as so many others did: ignoring the needs of the most valuable asset in the company. Small money is one thing, but been denied to go home when promised and breaking the rules that are in the contact on a constant basis is way worse than 'just' small pay.

I really thought of Vista differently, considered applying there - but then, when you compare their approach to the on NetJets offers to their employees, then I´d say the americans aren' t so bad sometimes!

[Der_Fischmeister]

well today i had breakfast ...

Im still somehow mad who started that whole recession thing ....
But then again ....Dax today at 5500 points ..its going up ..and soon or later there will be again the normal Procedures in Companies.

Anyways...good luck to all of you...

Cheers

[mustangbill]

Hi,

has someone been to the VJ interview ? Something new there ?

Thanks

[falconbis]

better get a job as FA with Netjets then they are paid better than that ..

[papazulu]

Their career webpage open again and glittering with new positions & requirements.

Is TR on one of their fleet mandatory both for Cpt & FO?

Regards

PZ

[Der_Fischmeister]

I heard they sold one Lear 60 so in my case i was first invited then a letter no futher need for any more crews ..(at least on the 60ty)

Same happpend to also an experienced high hour Collegue.

Cheers

o´zapft is !!!

[jetopa]

Don't wanna sound too negative, but who wants to work for a company which treats their employees as crappy as they do?

I sure as hell don't - as long as there is a choice, that is...

[dan1165]

I have been working for some corporate companies and Vista is not the worst ... Of course things could be better (roster) , but where is the perfect company ?? :rolleyes:

[tali]

Any news about hiring?

[flynorth]

I have spent some time today trying to fill in the on line application form but get it sent back every time due to my "email address". I know that it is correct so wondered if anybody else has had the same problem?:ugh:

Weird or what!

[tali]

2400TT 1300 in C-850 and not suitable for the C850 .. :oh:

What do they look for?

[Der_Fischmeister]

Vista Jet ..any news on contracts?
Interview any informations?

thx

[wondering]

Rumour is +/- 30 pilots are needed next year with more airplanes coming.

[bizjetbus]

I see they have posted an add for pilots for all fleets again. Interesting to see if they will stick to their promise and first offer the jobs back to the pilots who were kicked out last winter.

[No RYR for me]

Dont forget to ask to speak to some pilots on the line and ask them about this thing called schedules they keep hearing about.... :rolleyes:

[deskjockey101]

despite some of your colleagues being positive, you really can't push yourself to give it a go............oh well, Christmas coming, bah humbug!!!

101

[INNflight]

Hearing here and there from crew that work is getting more stable, they seem happy about the big picture.

Knowing one or two management guys and a few pilots it seems that there are certainly worse operators out there.

[JimJoness]

Sorry to disagree, I think the best that could happen is that VistaJet fades away (like WindowsVista).....

[deskjockey101]

Jim

I've heard a few crappy remarks on this site, but this top's the lot, you actually think that the best thing is 200 of your fellow pilots, and 30-40 other normal people get made redundant.

What is wrong with you??

101

[Der_Fischmeister]

absolutely a comment to edit ...

C´mon Man....

[wondering]

Couldn´t agree more. However, from a competitor´s view that would be great news. More of the cake for those left over. We will see. Good luck to everybody :ok:

[JimJoness]

There is number X of people using business aircraft !
VJ is one of the crappiest companies to work for !
If it would fold, the guys using VJ right now would not stop flying but fly with other companies which most likely offer better T&C's than VJ does (not hard to beat)!

I met plenty of VJ jockeys so far. But no one is really happy there:suspect:

[Der_Fischmeister]

I wish you ...many more happy years wherever you are ,must be fantastic.
But even there where the Grass is much Greener,Outside Disturbances will soon or later require change in T&C.

Have an Example ,Lufthansa.....Plan 2012....watch out ..lot of experienced Jockeys will be on the market with a BBJ Rating or Airbus maybe you will be forced to accept to fly for less or longer .

ITS LIKE ONCE HEARD IN A MOVIE ..."ITS FASCINATING WHAT A BODY CAN TAKE IF IT COMES TO SURVIVAL !!!"

But from that Vista is far away....

[karya]

By the way, anybody knows where operate the VJ's CL850 ?
Average salary for a F/O?:rolleyes:

thank you very much.

[Der_Fischmeister]

I would assume in Soviet Russia....

[deskjockey101]

The 850's are split between Europe/Middle East and Asia Pacific.They dont have a set base so don't worry about where you live.

If you good enough, and according this particular thread, brave enough!!, then give us a call.

101

[karya]

Hi 101
As it seems the problem is not gross salary, the key is where you are you living...taxes in Austria are very very high, around 40,35%. In other european countries taxes are around 22%, 18% it depends if you are married whit kids or not...therefore whit a gross salary of 40K 45k you can get at the end of the month around 2500euros netos per month x14 payments.
Anyway if you are living in Austria it's a very low salary:bored:

[learjet50]

Sir

Moral of the story


Dont Live in Austria

Get yourself a Good er Accountantant


Regards

[farfallina]

Hi,
anybody could give me some informations concerning working conditions, salaries, roster etc,, for cabin crew in Vistajet?

[Seveneleven71]

Moorning,
have you some information about the interview with the FOPH ? (pilot position)
Are the pilots based in Salzburg or where the aircrafts are ?
Have you an idea of the last salary offered ?

Sorry for the questions but...time is coming !

Regards
711

[farfallina]

unfortunately I dont have any infos for the pilots, as you I need infos for flight attendants

[Alojsia]

Hi, I'm looking for info on salaries for "hostess" as Farfallina! Please reply!
Thanks!:ok:

[Flying Mechanic]

if u get on with Vista Jet try and get the Hong Kong job, 2 weeks on/off, paid flights home , and good per diems and hotels.

[farfallina]

hi,
how much do you think is the salary for a flight attendant per month?