Carbon monoxide poisoning?

[Martin1234]

I flew an old aeroplane dual and felt to some extent nausea afterwards. At first I did not take notice as it happens that I get motion sickness although the sensation did not go away for maybe 2 hours, after which I only felt sick with just a slightly elevated temperature but an elevated pulse. After a total of about 8 hours I felt just fine again.

Can you draw any conclusions of the abovementioned? Is there any correlation between the result of any medical test and the susceptibility of manifesting the symptoms of [light] carbon monoxide poisoning?

[the dean]

hi martin,

i have had it before in a 172 nobody realised for a few days had an exhaust problem, and apart from the fact that the monoxide detector ( essential kit if you do'nt have a sniffer ) turned black, i got a dreadful headache, which also took some hours to clear.

from my human performance lectures i recall there are other symptoms but i do'nt recall nausea as one of them but your timescale suggests the two were associated...

i will be interested in what the docs say...:confused:

dean.

[gingernut]

Unfortunately your symptoms are a little vague, (as they are in CO poisoning) and could have been caused by one of a number of reasons.

Had you reported someting a little more concrete, (for example, a dead, pink, co-pilot), we could be a little more certain.

Interestingly you havn't reported a headache, (apparently a feature in 90% of toxic patients), but I guess, if in doubt, get your aged aircraft checked.

Diagnostically, I suspect you need seeing pretty soon after the suspected poisoning. One could mess about with "breath test" machines, but there use in diagnosing poisoning is questionable- good fun with cigarette smokers though!A blood test would probably be required.

More info at http://gpnotebook.co.uk/simplepage.cfm?ID=832176167


I guess the crux of my advice, is, if in doubt, check the a/c out, it 'aint worth messing with that sh*t:)

[Martin1234]

Diagnostically, I suspect you need seeing pretty soon after the suspected poisoning.

I assume that some people are more easily affected by carbon monoxide than others. I meant, does the result of any medical test give an indication if you are a canary bird or not? If there are two pilots maybe only one of them get the indication of carbone monoxide poisoning. Can you on forehand tell which of the pilots that are more likely to be affected?

[Shamrock274]

Did your copilot have any problems as well??

If you both were in the cockpiy you should have had the same exposure

[gingernut]

Can you on forehand tell which of the pilots that are more likely to be affected?

Can't think of any test to predict susceptibilty.

At a guess, I'd say the usual suspects of age, frailty and health problems would play a part- it's a long time since I opened a physiology text book, but you could look up the "oxygen saturation curve," if you want to find out more.

Or ask slim slag, he's a bit nurdish- he'll probably know.

The bottom line though, if in doubt check it out, it's not worh theorising with. Do you have a different agenda martin?

[Martin1234]

The bottom line though, if in doubt check it out, it's not worh theorising with. Do you have a different agenda martin?

I will have a word with the aircraft owner. Nah, I just find the discussion interesting. Why would I have a different agenda?

Can't think of any test to predict susceptibilty.

I interpret that as a good (high) level of haemaglobin would not make you more (or less) susceptible to carbon monoxide.

[Shunter]

I can't give you the science, but as a student I lived in a flat with a dodgy fire. Didn't realise at the time until we had a cold snap, and the girlfriend who had previously been awake and alert on the sofa watching TV was suddenly out sparko. I felt pretty much fine, but fortunately sussed the culprit immediately and dragged her outside.

Incidentily I'm a smoker, and find the vast majority of people I fly with are affected by hypoxic symptoms way earlier than I am (even at sensible alts like 8500ft). So go figure :confused:

Have you considered getting a CO detector? They're not expensive...

[gingernut]

Why would I have a different agenda?

Sorry, I'm in a bad mood, have spent the morning with a gabble of qualified nurses-enough to make anyone depressed:)

I interpret that as a good (high) level of haemaglobin would not make you more (or less) susceptible to carbon monoxide.

I guess in theory, a lower level of haemoglobin would make you more succeptible to poisoning, but in practice, I guess the difference seen would be neglible.

The stuff is so lethal, because it wraps itself around the oxygen carrying red blood cell, 200 times more than oxygen does. (a 0.1% concentration of CO will reduce the oxygen carrying capacity of the blood by about 50%).

Have you never noticed how tired smokers get- that's why:)

Age is a factor (in Mice!), doesn't look like slim slag is playing, (he's got a few problems with shed envy), but have a look at medline http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=ShowDetailView&TermToSearch=737242&ordinalpos=3&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubme d_RVDocSum

Try using the search terms CARBON MONOXIDE AND LETHALITY as a starting point.

[Shunter]

Have you never noticed how tired smokers get

Most smokers get tired because they're lazy & unfit. Personally I find myself somewhat akin to the Duracell Bunny, but that's probably down to the 6+ hours in the pool each week. Unhealthy doesn't have to mean unfit :)

[gingernut]

Yeh, at 31 your probably getting away with it.

But you'll probably drop off the curve sooner (some sh*tty cancer somewhere between lips and lung) or (hopefully) later.

Bet you could swim 12+ hours if ya'quit.:ok:

[Shamrock274]

Most smokers get tired because they're lazy & unfit. Personally I find myself somewhat akin to the Duracell Bunny, but that's probably down to the 6+ hours in the pool each week. Unhealthy doesn't have to mean unfit :)


Duracell . . . For now!!:ugh::ugh::ugh:

Oh boy, I wish i could take you to the respiratory unit at the hospital i work:}

[Loose rivets]

Forgive me if I jump on this bandwagon...it's just the mention of swimming that's the trigger.

A classmate once defended his smoking to me by saying how well he could swim. I argued with my usual passion (having seen 30 years of my mother's life ruined by cigarettes.). Eventually I gave up because of his determined opinion that being able to swim the length of a large pool underwater, meant that not a lot could be wrong. He died in Colchester's St Helena Hospice age 58. Yep, lung cancer.

Back to noxious gasses.

I had a job training new crews in Cardiff many years ago, but every so often, I would have to jump into a Navajo and single crew it to Harwarden and back. Lovely flight, but it was always spoilt by a strange feeling. Slightly giddy, a tad vague, it really fazed me at the time. I went for a full medical and the aircraft was thoroughly checked. Nothing was ever found.

To this day I think that I must have been susceptible to smaller traces of Co2 than my colleagues, as I had flown jet transport, un-pressurized twin turbo prop and the Navajo, all in quick succession. No problems on the other types.

[Martin1234]

To this day I think that I must have been susceptible to smaller traces of Co2 than my colleagues
Interesting. Did you use a CO2 detecter and did it apply to all Navajo aeroplanes, or just that individual aeroplane?

[Shunter]

Without meaning to drift the thread, I did differenciate quite clearly between unfit and unhealthy. Stupid to smoke? Obviously... But not too stupid to be well aware of the potential consequences. I'm not remotely defending it.

All I was saying is that some are most certainly more susceptable to lack of o2 than others. Smoking seriously reduces the ability to get o2 into the blood, yet I find I am far from the most susceptable to hypoxic symptoms. Not a boast, just an observation.

[Loose rivets]

Interesting. Did you use a CO2 detecter and did it apply to all Navajo aeroplanes, or just that individual aeroplane?


In those days I was routinely flying friends piston a/c, but the biggest was a Twin Com. No problems on those. I didn't fly another Navajo.

There was a simple detector in the a/c, (nil result) and an application made to borrow a sophisticated bit of kit from the RAF. I had departed the scene before it became available.

I was still doing sports in those days and was quite fit. I also had a very high peak-flow reading at CME, so I was very concerned about the strange feelings. In the bad old days I routinely used to fly the DC3 at FL130 and I was fine.

One doctor even suggested the beat frequency of the props should be allowed to increase to check for hypnotic effects. (my words not his, but that was the science behind it.) No change.

One other pilot who noticed a slight effect, was packed off to the RAF and had an EEG. Nothing out of kilter.