Seen one of these before?

[Akubra]

:confused:A mystery object for you all... :confused:

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o131/acubra/msty.jpg

[BSD]

Akubra,

I have a feeling it might be an observation car which could be suspended below an airship during flight.

I think they were fitted to Zeppelins.

I can't remember what their purpose was, but I seem to remember reading an article on them some while ago.

How's that?

BSD.

[airborne_artist]

Do we know that it's designed to be used in aviation? Could it be a submersible/under water device/craft like an Oropesa float used in minesweeping?

http://home.vicnet.net.au/%7Emildura/images/oropeasfloat.jpg

[Akubra]

Well that didn't last long.... :)
Your correct BSD, While the German Zeppelin raider hid in the cloud, this contraption was lowered and the lookout man signaled their position.
This one in particular was from the raider brought down in Chuffley, Herts?

PS: I am guessing Chuffley Herts is a suburb of London?

[airborne_artist]

I think it's meant to be Cuffley, which is in/near Potters Bar, to the N of London.

[Akubra]

Thanks AA, Re-read the article. Cuffley it is!

[Akrotiri bad boy]

Yes, it is a Zeppelin cloud car. The idea being that if the Zepp's target was obscured by cloud a crewman would be lowered beneath the cloudbase to guide the airship in. Despite the perilous nature of this task it was quite a popular assignment amongst the Zeppelin crews as it offered them a chance to "light up" without Hindenberg style results:eek:

[Proof Reader]

Since you refer to an article, I imagine you know all about this. However, just in case:

"Commander Wilhelm Schramm and his 15 crew members of the German Schutte-Lanz airship were famously brought down by the guns of Royal Flying Corps Captain William Leefe Robinson in his BE2C Biplane over Cuffley on September 3rd 1916, for which he received the Victoria Cross."

There is memorial of the event in Cuffley on the site of the old Plough Inn which is where the airship was brought down.

Commander Schramm and his crew were buried in the churchyard in Mutton Lane, Potters Bar until they were reinterred later in a German war grave cemetry in Cannock Chase. Sadly Captain Leefe-Robinson died of influenza aged 23 in the great influenza epidemic of 1918.

[Akubra]

I'm afraid the article doesn't go into that much detail.

Thank you for posting it anyway! Very interesting indeed.

It's from a magazine published in 1936 and is more on the first air raids and their psychological as well as material effects, including the reactions of the authority's in England and in Germany at the time.
It says the first German airship raid was executed on the 19th of January 1915, and has accounts of the people who were effected by it. (Sayers and Goate Family's)

Interestingly, It also talks about an invention that let the gunners locate the sound of the airships engines and aim accordingly. But thats all it says...
Any ideas?

[BSD]

Akubra,

Lucky guess on my part. It seemed to ring a bell, but I couldn't remember the exact purpose.

Even more remarkable that it came from the Zeppelin shot down at Cuffley.

I frequently drive past the memorial site on my way from home to Hatfield house, ( for a game of real tennis ) I'll make a point of stopping next time.

Akrotiri and Proofie, thank you for the extra background. Being let down through the clouds to determine the position just for the chance of a crafty drag seems high risk to me.

St. Ex's stunning line in 'Wind, sand and stars' - below the sea of cloud may lie eternity sums up the danger.

BSD.

[Good Vibs]

Yes, it is from a WW1 German Airship. There is a full scale model of one at the German Navy Museum in Nordholz, northern Germany & a real one is hanging at the IWM in London. Just think of hanging below the airship on a cable several thousand feet long while he is cruising along at full speed in cloud. Of course you see any obstructions that are in your way before he does!

[Akrotiri bad boy]

Akubra
The raid your leaflet refers to as the first on the British mainland involved two Zeppelins, L3 and L4. Initial target was to be the Humber however a freshening wind from the NW forced the commander of L3, Fritz, to steer for Great Yarmouth. L4's commander, von Platen-Hallermund, held course for the Humber but actually made landfall near Cromer mistakingly identifying the town as Grimsby. Both airships roamed through the Norfolk night dropping a total of 24 bombs, (2,155lb), killing four and injuring a further 16. Total mission time of a few minutes short of 24 hours.

I believe the cloud car in your photograph was lowered by LZ90 on 2/3 September 1916, however the winch ran away dumping the car 5,000ft below near Manningtree. Reports of the incident are unclear as to whether the car was occupied or not.

As for the hearing devices, I can't find any evidence of their use prior to the south coast sites which preceded the home chain radar system in the early '30's.

Sorry about this but very few people want to talk about Zeppelins and when they do I just can't help myself:8

[wz662]

One of these observation cars gets a staring role in the Howard Huges film Hells Angels.
The special effects for the Zeppelin in flight are not bad considering the film is nearly 80 years old

[Load Toad]

I recall there was an issue of Battle Comic (which would have been 70's or 80's would it?) where in the strip 'Charley's War' this type of thing featured in the story and at some point for some reason it was dropped with the occupant still inside it.
I'd love to know if my memory is correct cos that would have to have been a kids comic I was reading over 25 years ago.

http://charleyswar.tripod.com/

[Akubra]

The book mentions that it was not known how the Zeppelins could navigate in the cloud until a big cigar shaped tube of aluminum fell from an airship. It contained a body of a man and they were unsure if the wire had broken as the ship was under heavy fire, or they cut him loose to gain height.

Here is a picture of a Raider who made it back to Germany, but not all the way... there is no identification of this craft:
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o131/acubra/unknowen1915.jpg


It also mentions that after aircraft were brought in as a defense, the crew were given vials of poison which would save the men from the torture of been burned to death.... (It also mentions that they never knew if they ever did use them)

The book also has a picture of what they were dropping. This was an UXB :
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o131/acubra/uxb.jpg

I have found a couple of photos of audio devices used to guide ground fire on aircraft, I believe them to be of a later date than mid WW1, but still interesting none the less. (Japanese and French devices) I will get the camera out and post them here soon.

Meanwhile, Here is a photo of L9 commanded by Capt. Mathy returning from Tyneside (April 14-15 1915) to its hangar in Belgium. This was one that took part in Englands second Raid.
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o131/acubra/L9April151915.jpg

Good vibs: Damn! I was at the IWM and missed seeing it... Maybe next time I'm over that way...

Akrotiri: Thanks for the information, I suppose the one at the IWM is the one in the photo. Hope you enjoy the photos.

[Akubra]

Ok.
For those who are interested, here are some devices used to locate aircraft by their sound.
These, I'm pretty sure are later than 1915, but I'm guessing they would be designed around the same idea.

A French "teleismeter" Date unknown once again, If anyone has some input, that would be great.
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o131/acubra/telesimeter-french.jpg

Men from the British Observers Corps doing some spotting in 1935.
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o131/acubra/observerscorps1935-1.jpg

The Emporer of Japan inspecting the giant ear trumpets near the end of the Great War.
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o131/acubra/warsend-emperor-of-japan.jpg

And lastly, Something called the "Vickers Predictor" That is been used by the 2nd AA Brigade (Date unknown) You can see it in the right hand background.
It says that information is communicated to dials on the gun, electrically. It also mentions that it was accurate between 9 and 10 thousand feet.
I'm not even sure how this one works, but still interesting..
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o131/acubra/vickersperceoter-1.jpg

Cheers!

Edit: I have found a website that has many acoustic radars.
http://www.dself.dsl.pipex.com/MUSEUM/COMMS/ear/ear.htm
Note sure about his Ear Trumpet photo as he says it's 1930, but then states that he found the picture on a website so is probably guessing.

[Akrotiri bad boy]

Akubra

The unidentified airship in your photo is the German Army Airship Division's LZ97. The aft gondola is shown with the bomb traps clearly visible, the sub-cloud car was slung just forward of the gondola.

Keep 'em coming:ok:

Akrotiri

[norman atkinson]

My mother recounted the story of a raid on Tyneside when she was a 'gal'.

The raider saw the newly limed fields in Ponteland- ie North of the present Aerodrome and bombed them. He had assumed that they were the Vickers Armstrongs factories and the River Tyne just to the South.

History tends to repeat and I recall the WW2 attack on the small railway bridge just South of Prudhoe and the Tyne. It does look surprisingly like the bigger Tyne Bridge. We received 8 HE's and incendiaries as a consolation prize.