Ground Handling

[Thin Controller]

Why do airlines always blame the handling agent for every delay. Staffing is so hard as the rates charged are so low. Try to train someone on wt / bal, DCS (x5), DGR goods, ramp safety, airside driving, airbridge, principles of loading...then pay the £5.50 an hour. Do you think this is safe... Possibly economy first, safety second. Sorry, but get a little peaved with having to interview all the time... Then get some airline rep with 2 mths experience on an airport telling you what to do...Ill get off my soap box... Any comments? :eek: null (http://null)

[SZD]

>Then get some airline rep with 2 mths experience on an airport telling you what to do...Ill get off my soap box... Any comments? null<

Mmmmm. Why does jmc, suddenly spring to mind.

What really winds me up are airlines that end up with 4-5 aircraft off schedule due various reasons, and then demand that all of their aircraft are loaded NOW and pushed NOW, without realising that they are not the only airline on the airport and that just ain't possible and airlines on schedule take priority. :mad:

[ 22 August 2001: Message edited by: SZD ]

[Jonathan Hope]

If the Airlines paid more money for the Handling then the standard of Dispatcher would be better.
A vicious circle I believe!!!!.....and yes JMC do come to mind!

[Keyboard]

Hey folks! Didn't you know Ground Handlers are supposed to be able to split themselves in as many people required. Also don't forget we're also supposed to have a crystal ball. So when covering more than 1 flight we can see everything thats going on. I wonder do flight decks really understand the pressure we end up being under and for a whole lot less money than they earn!!!!! :confused:

[Ex Servant]

Sad to say alot of it does come down to money. As someone who had worked at the airport for a number of years and as a CA for five I didn't think I'd have too much of a problem getting a job on the ramp. Sadly whilst the handling agents wanted me to join them they all wanted me to start on the check in desks for £200 a week. They said those that had been with them the longest went on to the ramp first, regardless of experience. Hmm so you put an 19yr old with 9 months airport experience on the ramp as a Dispatcher? Is it any wonder those of us that could and would do the job look elsewhere. My impression was that all sides could learn something. If the handling companies want to offer a quality service they've got to pay the money and get the people. The airlines need to learn that if that's what you want, then you have to be prepared to pay for it.

[SZD]

Perhaps Handling agents should make that a requirment on the application form.

'Crystal ball required (Batteries not supplied). Telepathic abilities also an advantage.' :p

[Keyboard]

Another thing they could put on the application form is Being a clone also big advantage. Maybe we should get a few flights decks to do the ground handling on their own aircraft. Then they may change their way of thinking. But then again maybe not they would still find something to blame on us. Delays can happen for any number of reasons ATC slots Tech A/C pax deciding to go to the Duty free instead of the gate. Nobody is perfect. We work hard in the job we do all we ask is for a little better recognition and appreciation if we wer't there then who would handle the aircraft!!! :eek:

[ 01 September 2001: Message edited by: Keyboard ]

[ 02 September 2001: Message edited by: Keyboard ]

[Big Tudor]

Don't think it would hurt anybody to spend a bit of time on the ramp. People Express in the US used to rotate staff through all departments (even aircrew) so that everybody had an understanding of how the whole operation worked, not just their small part. I think some of the middle/upper managers were even trained as cabin crew so they could see things from all sides. It doesn't matter which part of the operation you work in, you are only a cog in a very large wheel. If one gog doesn't work properly then the whole thing grinds to a halt!

[Keyboard]

Well said Big Tudor. In our station espiecally over the winter season when it is a little bit quieter. We would swap jobs for a period of time to keep us aware of the team work needed to make every flight go as smoothly as possible.

Unfortunately we are not allowed to fly the aircraft. Not Yet!!! :D :D :D :D

[ 02 September 2001: Message edited by: Keyboard ]

[Ex Servant]

I agree with you. It would help if crews saw it from the other side. One airline I used to work for gave you a day in the terminal. Unfortunately one hour each at the check in desk, ticket desk, ops, gate, ramp etc doesn't really give much time to see what actually goes on. Maybe if all crews had to spend a week on the ground as part of their training it would help. As has been mentioned, realistic job ads would save alot of disappointment. I for one would not have bothered wasting anyone's time applying for a job which maybe was not what I was looking for (or paying the sort of money I needed).
Just to let you know, the crews do appreciate ground staff who know what they are doing even if they do grumble at times.

[Keyboard]

Ex Servant, I know some crews do appreciate the job we do but we do find alot who look down on us. Just because we are not paid big salaries some take the attitude we are not worthy. I really enjoy the job I have in ground handling the pays not great but its the challenge I enjoy I get a real buzz when we all acheive on time or early departures, but a little thankyou now and again would not go amiss, not so much from crews we all know they do appreciate us at the time, but the GOC's/CSA's depending on the airline would be nice. Our training for staff is 3 weeks so instead of 1 week for crews even it they spent 2wks on the ground with OPs/ramp/pax ser/dispatch it would really let them see what goes on. Bottom line iIt only works when we work as a team and not against each other. :) :) :) :)

[ 02 September 2001: Message edited by: Keyboard ]

[LITOW]

An interesting thread.
Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on your point of view) Handling Agents represent the best chance for those of us who want to get into aviation but are not aircrew. Historically the Handling Agents at UK airports operate as a cartel keeping their costs down to the maximum they feel the airlines will pay. Therefore, in order to run a profitable business salary's of the troops are kept low. They know that there will always be numerous applicants for jobs until the percieved romance of working at an airport wears off. I once had a converstaion about staff retention with the MD of a Handling Agent that I worked for, he stated:
"I don't give a @#~k about the staff, they are two a penny and there are always plenty of suckers out there"
Until the industry is rid of senior management with this mentality employees will always get a raw deal.

It is the goodwill of the staff that is perhaps a handling agents biggest asset and while their employees contine to go that extra mile nothing will change.

[Thin Controller]

Like the thoughts that some of you have posted. There are still a few old guard managers for airlines and handling agents out there. I agree that some things will not change until until they have gone.

Why not put the airline PSA's as senior managers within handling agents as they always seem to know what is going on and how things could be done better.

Why don't the airlines (charter) get rid of the PSA's and save them selves some money. Then, maybe, they could pay the handling agents a better rate.

Maybe BA have seen the light....sorry... :eek:

[Wizdum]

From an airline controller's position I find it hard to blame the dispatchers. Typically it's the people he's relying on, baggage agents, boarding staff, etc. Before I quit the ground handling life, I dispatched. It is no fun to be standing at the back of the cockpit taking abuse from some w*nker pilot while your baggage monkeys get the count wrong for the third time.

[Keyboard]

This year a lot of stations have had great difficulty in getting summer staff with good attitudes for the job. This unfortunatley put the load onto the regular staff, who end up doing the majority of the work and its not only the dispatchers who end up take abuse. The boarding staff can end up taking more abuse as well. Sometimes we tend to forget they have a difficult job with passengers, if an aircraft is delayed or tech. In my time in ground handling for a delay I have only had 3 Flight deck members willing to come and speak and stay with pax to answer questions as regards tech/delay problems. One occasion was with an aggressive pax. Which I was really thankful for.

[Keyboard]

PS Were are the airline Csa's when they are needed?


:confused:


Oh yeah. Coffee Break. :D :D :D