PPL price excessive??

[XL319]

Just been looking at the prices of some FTO's and I was astonded to find that one place has increased the price of their PPL from £5200 incl to 5700 to now £6300 incl (excluding CAA fee's away landing fee's, exam fees) in little more than a year.

Do you think this is excessive? PPL's in the USA are only £4000 incl(excluding CAA fee's BUT do include ground school and all other fee's).

Spend Wisely is my advice!!

[GARDENER]

Well anything you buy from the states is a bargain at the moment due ROE! Maybe the FTO in question was the most cost effective option before the increase but were unable to sustain it due to increased costs?
It does not matter where you train lowest up front cost does not necessarily mean best long term deal. From experience I did PPL, IMC, Night and Multi abroad for a song but spent a lot once back in the UK on getting the standard of flying up to what it should have been and consequently paid more long term. Price should not always be top of the list.

[XL319]

Increased costs? Maybe the price of fuel. Inflation has only risen by 2-4% in the past year and the increase which i have seen farr outweighs this.

FTO's could IMO make a killing by making flying cost price and add a little on for profit. Equity groups etc charge cost price and only charge say £20 to cover instructor fee's and the group I'm thinking of makes a healthy profit.

If people shop around and look at other alternatives such as RAF civvy flying groups (waddington takes civvy's on) then you get flying at £80 approx including instuction.

This price increase says to me ...greed

[JUST-local]

XL 319
Greed ! You will find very few rich flying school owners, flying can be cheap but it is not sustainable for a school, the groups you talk about are either subsidised or will not be around in the same format for long!
I could show a full break down of the costs of a carefully run school on here but don't want to depress myself on a busy flying day!
I/we/flying schools make money on the current rates but when you are keeping engine/prop/maintenance funds etc. paying instructors more than ever before, rising airport charges etc. etc. the profit is very small.
Don't be blinkered by groups who are not planning long term with maintenance etc.
There is no such thing as cost price flying, people work hard in the industry and usually don't get paid enough for it they do it because they want to.
I have seen groups/schemes come and go someone always loses out along the chain!
JL..........

[GARDENER]

XL-Do not think you read or digested my comments...or maybe I put it across badly. My question -when was the companies previous increase to this one? Did they hold the old price for several years? Did this then look like a higher than inflation increase? Were they making a loss previously? You or I do not know the answers to al of these questions. As suggested above there is a lot to consider in this game and there is good reason that the familiar saying about how one makes a small fortune in aviation by starting with a large fortune rings true.
I do however understand how it looks to Bloggs though and hey! if you/they do not want to pay them go elsewhere ie Waddington for your groupshare with instruction. Totally agree, shop around and you will find a deal although it might mean driving 2 hours which of course like most you won't factor in the drive, your time etc etc.

[IRISHPILOT]

Hello XL,
you posted this in the professional section, so I assume you will go on to CPL. Why would you invest such a large sum of money into something that you will use probably no more than a year? A JAA PPL will be gone once you upgrade. Any other PPL will be yours for life, and that is all that is needed to commence ATPL studies.
The exchange rate is one factor for more expensive PPLs than in the US, but most places in Europe are cheaper (for pretty much anything). You generally pay in Euros what you pay in Pounds in the UK (plus the extra travel, accommodation, etc.).
If you then still really want a UK issued PPL, it's a straight swap. Please don't believe that standards anywhere outside the UK are lower, and if you have to spend a little extra to get used to UK airspace, you still save a bunch and build hours, not to speak of experience gained abroad...

[IRISHPILOT]

Just checked my school, where I rent a C152 for fun from time to time, they charge 4800 pounds for the full PPL, which includes all landing fees, first class initial medical (EUR120 on its own) and exam fee (which is traditionally a bottle of Ballentines).

I know that they are not the cheapest around, but all I could find right now...
Always British / Irish / Germans / Austrians around.

cheers, IP

[XL319]

I will agree to disagree.

It was interesting to see that most of the replies came from the same area...maybe a common theme there!!
P.S. Golfdriver hit it on the head on a seperate thread.

I would doubt costs have risen so much to justify £6300 per student.

I would expect all the aircraft to have all the mod cons for that amount...i.e. working radio not imtermitent....avionics that work etc etc etc.

I was not specifically referring to Waddington...merely an example if you shop around.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion obviously. I just think its a little excessive without expanding too much on a public forum

XL