NJS in court on Monday, then Industrial Action next month....

[Kransky]

Well, it sounds like it is all coming to a head. NJS is in the Federal Magistrate Court in Perth on Monday for a five day hearing. First up is the two pilots they are chasing for $15k each. Those pilots are having their defence paid for by the government Office of Workplace Services, represented by Kerren Crossthwaite.

Then the Office of Workplace Services prosecution kicks off over the pilot underpayment of wages issue and duress issues.

http://www.fmc.gov.au/lists/html/perthg.html

Daily Court List
Perth List (General Federal Law)
Federal Magistrates Court of Australia, Commonwealth Law Courts 1 Victoria Ave. PERTH.
15th October 2007
FEDERAL MAGISTRATE LUCEV
Hearing Room 6.2, Level 6
10:15 AM Hearing
(P)PEG109/2007 KERREN MAREE CROSTHWAITE v NATIONAL JET SYSTEMS PTY LTD ACN 008 279 203
10:15 AM Hearing
(P)PEG122/2007 KERREN MAREE CROSTHWAITE v NATIONAL JET SYSTEMS PTY LTD ACN 008 279 203

Five days in Federal Magistrates Court, with Queen's Counsel. Wonder how much that is costing NJS?

Word is that it is not costing the pilot's a cent, because the government thinks they have a worthy cause!

Then the boys and girls at NatJet get to go again, they have permission to use 48/24/8 hour stoppages if they wish...

http://www.airc.gov.au/decisionssigned/html/2007airc857.htm

Would it not have been cheaper just to pay the guys their CPI and talk with them about their contracts?

[Kransky]

And Frozo, I know you are reading this...

How's the missus? :E

[Erin Brockovich]

What a waste of farken time and money. I can’t believe the resistance to pay pilots a little more, or in this case not any less.

I hope NJS get taken to the cleaners and dragged over the coals. Skippers will be next. Un-farken-believable!!! I am lost for words. These clowns would rather go to court.

[Watchdog]

Geez.... Pass a F, you are going to get a firey response on that comment I bet!
Are you in such as position as to judge what those contemplating the industrial action have endured to warrant them taking action? If your employer wasn't taking you seriously and 'fobbing you off' continually, what other avenue would you suggest to get their attention? :confused:

[ScottyDoo]

Are you in such as position as to judge what those contemplating the industrial action have endured to warrant them taking action?

Of course he's not. He's an idealist. He can afford to be because he lives a cloistered existence in a sheltered workshop.

And that coming from the service which has in the past seen members decide for themselves whether or not they'll do their job in time of war.

[Capt Claret]

Frozo, have you ever volunteered to have a fight with a bully with both hands tied behind your back? Would you?

If not why not?

[The J55 Riddler]

Our manager friends in ADL are such a bunch of winners.

Even the best QC requires some merits and a decent set of facts to argue.

I can probably guess they were too stingy to hire the best. In any case they would want to be better than the mob they used in the AIRC two weeks ago. Even the bosses had to laugh at that dude.:ugh:

Litigation Risk Analysis; Quick calculation $10 000 legal fees defending each breach + $33 000 max fine per breach + bad publicity + bad will against paying each affected Pilot less than $100 per week.

Times that by approx 20.

I think it is a strategy to deal with the Pilot shortage, its easy you just shrink your flying business back to the point where you don't need Pilots anymore.:D

[Enema Bandit's Dad]

PAF = aircraft's big brother :eek:

[markben]

I know some girls who have just been employed by this shonky operator as Flight Attendants. They are all on AWA'a they have to salary sacrifce their own training over two years for AND they are bonded for two years, AND they are on a training salary for the for three months.
Talking about money for jam!!!!! This company need to get what is coming to them! :mad:

[Jet_A_Knight]

It would be nice to see a precedent set in a court of law.

[cunninglinguist]

Would it not have been cheaper just to pay the guys their CPI and talk with them about their contracts?

Exactly right, thats how stupid, moronic, pig headed, and idiotic PAFs ex workmates are.

Watchdog, pay no attention to PAF, since when did a public servant have an idea about what goes on outside their coccoon :confused:

CIA, you reap what you sew :D

[3 Holer]

I think it is a strategy to deal with the Pilot shortage, its easy you just shrink your flying business back to the point where you don't need Pilots anymore.

Hugh Davin & Skywest would love that logic from the opposition!

[The J55 Riddler]

The honourable member for Bennelong, Mr John Howard has just announced the federal election will be held on the 24th November 2007.

Our management friends have timed this to perfection. NOT!!!:}

Strap yourself in kiddies, this is going to be a show and a half.:ok:

[AerocatS2A]

I know some girls who have just been employed by this shonky operator as Flight Attendants. They are all on AWA'a they have to salary sacrifce their own training over two years for AND they are bonded for two years, AND they are on a training salary for the for three months.
Talking about money for jam!!!!! This company need to get what is coming to them!

Well, if you want conditions to change, don't accept them! If those girls don't like the conditions but signed anyway then they are fools. If they don't mind the conditions, then both parties are happy and it's none of our business.

[flyingfox]

What makes matters worse is that NJS have no trouble paying for a QC for this case. They are rolling in money!

[Angle of Attack]

Damn PAF, I have gone on strike 3 times since I started working at the age of 18, suffice to say each time I got a pay rise and shafted them... Sorry I wasnt sacked, hmm maybe next time! :E:E Strikes are all too rare these days I look forward to mass strikes, it will be excellent!

[markben]

AerocatS2A, Obviously the girls aren't happy about it otherwise they wouldn't have said anything. Its the same old story if they don't take it then other school leavers thinking its good money (cause they have never had a job) will take it. As for none of our business we should ALL be aware of how this company treats its staff,....... or maybe you work for this embrassing joke.

I ask YOU how would you like to be told you must salary sacrifice your training (ie. PAY FOR YOUR TRAINING), then told you are BONDED, and then told you are on a training wage for the first 3 months (which is equvilent to paying for training anyway), don't tell me you think thats fair?????? :p

[ScottyDoo]

some girls .....employed ......as Flight Attendants ......have to salary sacrifce their own training over two years

HAHAHAHHAHAAAAAAA..........!!!!! So now it's ROSO for galley-wenches???!?!

Well wtf.... Anyway let's see, salary sacrifice over two years - works out to about, what, five bucks a week? :p:p:p

AND they are on a training salary for the for three months.

So now it takes "three months" to train a dolley????

CIA, you reap what you sew

I wish people would stop saying that. Did you mean, "You rip what you sew" or "You reap what you sow"????


I agree with regard to these chicks, though: They signed it, they are stuck with it. Bit hard to complain afterward.

[WynSock]

Further on the reaping and sowing,

Could all those twits who wrote 'sew' go back and edit them?

You aren't doing the pro-'reapwhatyousow' side any favours

:8

[Tidbinbilla]

Frozo and others: Leave the ludicrous references to Anzac Day out of this debate or the thread will be closed.:suspect:

Cranky TID

[Hugh Jarse]

From the Australian:


A PERTH pilot who refused tosign an Australian Workplace Agreement was told in writing by his bosses that his decision was untenable, the Federal Magistrates Court heard yesterday.

The Workplace Ombudsman is alleging that National Jet Systems, Australia's largest supplier of contracted air services, breached its obligations under the post-Work Choices Workplace Relations Act in two ways.

Barrister for the ombudsman Richard Hooker is claiming the company applied duress to pilots Lyndon Kruger and Andrew King during the AWA negotiations and failed to pay them and 31 of their colleagues an agreed CPI increase from July 1 last year.

The pilots are in turn being sued by the Adelaide-based company for breach of contract as a result of their refusal to sign the AWAs put to them in 2005.

National Jet Systems is expected to detail its claim this week that the pair breached an undertaking that they would sign the AWAs, which The Australian understands included a clause stipulating that each pilot would contribute $15,000 towards their training.

The amount could be refunded after three or four years.

In his opening address, counsel for the Workplace Ombudsman claimed National Jet Systems's actions were designed to affect the free will of Mr King and Mr Kruger. "Mr Kruger was informed by letter that the decision not to sign up was both 'disappointing and untenable'," Mr Hooker said.
Mr King and Mr Kruger are being represented by their own lawyer at the hearing.

National Jet Systems operates all Qantas Link flights, and flies throughout Australasia, including to Christmas Island and Cocos-Keeling islands.
The company provides fly-in, fly-out personnel transport services for resource companies in Western Australia and South Australia and air freight services for express freight provider Australian Air Express.

It has 28 aircraft and employs about 800 people.

In July, the Transport Workers Union claimed to have signed up 100 pilots as new members as a result of the stoush over AWAs.

The hearing, which is expected to last five days, continues in Perth today.

[ITCZ]

Well done!

I agree with you Owen, but you are probably not doing those men any favours by naming them in a forum that attracts rabid and ill-considered 'opinions' from both ends of the spectrum! They don't read these pages, but they have to work with pilots that do.

Here are two guys that are demonstrating discipline, resolve, and sticking to principles of fair play. We all would like to think that we would do the same. Unfortunately history shows that many falter when the pressure is applied.

I second the "well done!"

[RENURPP]

ITCZ their names are already mentioned in the article above Owen Stanleys post.

Best of luck to the two pilots involved. You set a good example for the rest of us.

AFAP :yuk:

[Talkwrench]

Hey I heard a rumour that at this years TWU Christmas Party, The executive will be awarding NJS with the "Number 1 Recruiter" trophy for '07 due to their stellar efforts in encouraging such a large number of people to sign up to the TWU... Congrats to all at NJS that lent a hand in convincing the pilots to join up! I wonder if they will receive any commissions.... perhaps some TWU caps and jackets might be appropriate?

[Lord Flashhart]

what's happened with the hearing?
Knowing NJS- DELAY DELAY STALL STALL.

[RENURPP]

yes, as suggested DELAY DELAY STALL until April 2008 :}

Talkwrench
I want my blue singlet and steel cap boots that go with my TWU bottle opener and pen:O

[blaster666]

Does anyone know the final outcome of the court case ?

[ITCZ]

No final outcome, it only got as far as hearing the first witness (Kerren Crossthwaite, OWS), then it was adjourned. Counsel for NJS wanted more time to wade through all the evidence the OWS produced!

[RENURPP]

Does anyone know the final outcome of the court case ?
Only the Federal Magistrate I would guess. :confused: and even he won't really know until April now.
Counsel for NJS wanted more time to wade through all the evidence the OWS produced!
Considering the que at the Workplace Ombudsmans office, there will be more and more and more to come. This may never end..................................

Maybe NJS/COBHAM should get out of aviation and just employ legal people?

[The J55 Riddler]

NJS's counsel tried to get some evidence bounced, overplayed the shot and forced the adjournment. Whoops.

More law firm money required, more Pilot dissatisfaction, more pressure on the brass.

Steady stream of resignations.

Time to start back pedalling or there will be NO Future on the Horizon.

[notmyC150v2]

Does anyone know if NJS has settled this yet or if it is still adjourned?

Professional curiosity, that's all.

[flyingfox]

Nothing will happen until April '08 (next hearing); when NJS QC will no doubt try some more tricks!

[727ace]

well reading this thread i can now see why NJS is the only company in the west "SHRINKING" like an old mans genitalia, with the mining boom and all those f100's and 737's making their way there with all the opposition air operators. Goood luck with the court case :)

[wessex19]

727ACE, you talking about the "franks" or "beans"???:uhoh:

[Icarus2001]

http://i.pbase.com/u39/dannysmythe/large/26435878.Pineapple2.jpg

[Toolman101]

Icarus2001

Nothing in your last post

What was it?:confused: