SAA pilots on the verge of a mass exodus?

[SAASFO]

With the two CEO roadshows to the pilots this last week, and the pathetic attempt by management to explain the current situation, any pilot who thinks he or she has a future at SAA, except possibly pilots of colour, are smoking their socks.

The head of HR specifically mentioned that one of the main reasons they do not like our agreements is that they are unable to bring a black pilot who is a Captain at another airline and slot him straight into SAA as a direct entry Captain. They also do not like the fact that, where they have a surplus of pilots, they are unable to get rid of pilots from the top down, or to get rid of only white pilots but not pilots of colour.

This entire restructuring is nothing but an excuse to purge SAA of white employees.

I will bet my entire SAA salary that you will see a minimum of 10 SAA aircraft parked with no crew within 6 months.

[whitedove2]

If SAA,s policy is to employ direct entry captains, then the race of the pilot doesnt matter, but rather competence and professionalism.
It is totally unfair for folks to use racism as an excuse to cover their own insecurity or complexes.

[Pow-wow]

Ha ha ha ....whitedove...you obviously dont have a clue what your talking about...:ugh:

[pilotd]

its a pity a couple of years ago the exact same thing was happening to people of colour where we we not allowed to fly and if you did no chance of getting into SAA now that we have opportunities everyone cries fowl. believe me when i say that aviation in south africa is still a one way street so please stop complaining and let us have our chance like all of you had before i will fly for SAA one day in the future and be proud of my airline and my country

[777Contrail]

pliotd: Excuse me if I don't cry.....

15 Years ago I saw coloured pilots get into SAA WITHOUT A COMM. LICENSE!

After they were TRAINED BY THE SAAF!

Weren't allowed to fly?!

Only when coloured South Africans stop hiding behind their skin colour and start producing the goods, will SA's problems stop.

Stop blaming the past for the hole you're digging yourself into.

[ERASER]

PILOTD

Sorry for asking but "a couple of years ago the exact same thing was happening to people of colour", did you say the exact same thing?............People of colour being retrenched to make way for white pilots.........:E Don't know about that, but as they say, never to old to learn........:}

I do not believe anybody cried fowl about oppertunities for PDI's..........:confused:

E

[taperlok]

Pilotd is most probably one of the cadets who had everything handed on a platter. Not one of the indians flying at SAA have been disadvantaged. They were all younger than 18 before 1994. so f:mad: them all.

Noe of the white guys have been called in to withdraw their resignation.
All the people of colour can have SAA. Then we can listen to all the whining on PPrune when they have to start flying with Nigerian DEC. Happy days

[pilotd]

I like how you guys can pin point one couloured pilot who got in at airways with a comm nice one proves my point. Nothing gets said about the charter industry that does not hire PDI and im talking from my experience not in general he would rather take the white guy with less experience so we can keep one part of south africa to ourselves. I fell sorry for the guys at airways who are being retrenched but you guys are making this intoo a political and racial thing which is not right if a black captain is there he deserves to be there because he sure could harder than most people to get in. As for been handed things on a platter you are surely mistaken i worked hard for my comm had to dodge the bullet many times because certain people made my life difficult when i was studying comm.

Please lets not not turn this racial which you guys are we are proffesionals lets look beyond colour and see the real problem at hand , if white pilots are being retrenched and black pilots are being put in their place i am totally AGAINST that sort of behaviour.

[allovertheplace]

Popcorn....anyone!?! This is only getting better!

[Q4NVS]

...people of colour where we we not allowed to fly and if you did no chance of getting into SAA now that we have opportunities everyone cries fowl....stop complaining and let us have our chance like all of you had before i will fly for SAA one day in the future and be proud of my airline and my country

versus

Please lets not not turn this racial which you guys are we are proffesionals lets look beyond colour and see the real problem at hand , if white pilots are being retrenched and black pilots are being put in their place i am totally AGAINST that sort of behaviour.

Trawler Alert!

Btw, MANY others (of all creeds) never had the chance to fly for SAA either - so stop looking into the "Broken Mirror" my friend...:mad:

[STUBBIES]

Pilotd this one is for you.
As far as I know the new South Africa is supposed to be an even playing field.We all know that it's not and alot of pilots(people) give in to that fact.What is:mad: irritating is that idiot newbies like you have no idea what charter and contract guys go through to get to the point where SAA will even look at their CV.The Govt. and SAA management make it a race issue,everyone else just want this "Apartheid" excuse for all the bull:mad: policies to end.So when you have done 3000 hours of contract and charter flyinng in Africa's :mad:holes then you can have something to say about sacrifice and oppertunites,so take your "I have the right" attitude and shove it you know where.I am so sick and tired of the double standards an being the scape goat for the situation SA is in.The place(SA and SAA) is falling appart because of BEE and Affirmative action and no one with half a brain can deny that.Get over yourself and think further ahead than your own situation,think about your children, grandchildren,and the hole they will have to fight to make a living in if these policies are to continue.

Good luck to all you guys and girls in SA fighting the fight.Be strong.

[Avi8tor]

Past the popcorn, this one is gonna head south. I normally keep WELL away from these political ones, but will make an exception this time.

I am in no way silly enough to think that 'white SA' is gonna get away with an 'ooops, sorry' for the 50 odd yrs of apartheid.

But the one thing I do know for sure, is that if South Africa as a country, and SAA as a company wants to have ANY chance in a globalized economy, it has to look forward NOT backwards. I, or any other white South african, cant change the past. That F:mad:K up has already been made.

A greater man than Thabo Mbeki quite correctly said "...you don't help the poor by destroying the rich...". I am 40 yrs old. I didn't vote for the system, I just grew up in it. When it came to hiring time, there was NO job reservation to help me. But I do know I will be paying for the 'sins of my fathers' for a long time to come. Which is also odd, we only arrived in SA in 1970.

To create a 'newly advantaged' class of people as a reaction to apartheid is nothing short of brain dead.

The solution is to invest the country's resources in education, give people the opportunity to live up to their potential. Keep away from another version of 'ethnic socialism'. That won't wash in the 21st century.

To waste BILLIONS of ZARs on making a few black pilots and a national airline, as window dressing, is to sentence the country to a life of poverty.

[AAL]

To all the proponents of change for the sake of change and in the name of affirmative action....keep doing so and see how it saves SAA from the dolldrums it is already in.

Already the European operators are full to capacity by passenger's choice while SAA is having to cut back routes and not flying at same capacity as its competitors.

Forget about building and developing anything in South Africa, here we can just rename and destroy!

RIP SAA, once your transformation is complete you will have to change and concentrate on your routes to Mafekeng, Polokwane, M'thata, Bisho etc etc etc.

[Jacobest]

Hey Stubbies
Sounds like you and I have travelled the same route. All those hard hours away from home living in sh*t holes (spend a week in a container once Hotel Congo) hoping that once we got our necessary hours we could also join the then proud elite. Then to come home and hear that afirmative action is now the new game. Luckily, we all new that it would spell the end for SAA and look now.
I am glad and proud that I DO NOT fly for SAA. Let them have it. It will all be over after 2010 anyway. My advice to any pilot in SA now doing the hard contract work, look overseas. The pilot shortage is here. The time has come to get what you deserve. Companies are scraping the bottom of the barrel. got phonecalls from companies all of a sudden who i sent cv's to more than a year ago and then they did not even have the decency to reply but now they want me to come and work there........ :E

[allovertheplace]

Does'nt matter what we do, we as white sef efricans will always be seen as the racists in the whole system!!! I am so sick and tired of being blamed for everything that goes wrong in our beautifull country. We are however in a catch 22. We should just leave...all of us...and maybe one day to return and rebuild what is left of this place!!!When who ever is done turning this place into a bigger sh1:mad:le!!!!. Maybe if we start calling a spade a spade then things will start going better.
I feel sorry for the averege joe with no qualifications because they are going to sit here, stuck in the crossfire!!!!

Why can the supporters of Zuma, Msimang, Selebi and all the rest not see what they are doing to themselves and to the country by keeping this people in force!!!F:uhoh:ing stupid if you ask me. Funny thing is, after each 2 month contract , coming back, a person could actually see how the quality of life here are sucked out by the ever increasing crime and the bast:sad:'s that run this country!

And for us guys at the bottom of the food chain it will be a hard few years ahead before we could make it out or we might just be saved by the pilot demanding market!!!!
I have also done my fair share of contract flying and will probably still do some time in the darkness.

Just the 2 cents worth from a youngster in the industry also trying to make it through!!!

[TwinJock]

Pilotd.

Boet, if I look at your use of the English language, I am deeply concerned about your schooling!! But who lets academic qualifications get in the way on the way to the top - look at all spheres of society in the NEW SA!!

The answer is simple my friends - I left SA because I was tired of flying with "tokens"! So nice to work with people who have a passion for flying, and not just "werking"! Nothing have, or will change!

[CJ750]

What are you smoking. Things have been done in the past that we are paying for now and it seems the powers that be want us whities to pay for their c.....kups they are making now. This is africa and the sooner you realise what is going on and which way this country is heading then better. Have you travelled much north of our borders at all. If you flew in the GA sector you would see a lot more than you see in the protected airline environment. I would like to know where you applied to in the charter sector or even contract sector as there are a number of jobs going if you have the required experience. As for business aviation i have not heard of any applications by PDI's as i have been told it is a more lucrative job to fly for an airline than a corporation. Correct me if i am wrong but there is also a theory that an airline job for a PDI is guaranteed to be a quicker path to the ALMIGHTY position of Captain (THE BIG LEFT SEAT) due to the acceleration of PDI. Don't come with the race thing either as PDI refers to white females and Indian male and females. I am open to correction if i have my facts wrong but after almost 21years in general aviation this is what i have seen. I have not met many PDI's that have enjoyed and stayed in the varioys forms of GA but all headed off to the more lucrative airline jobs so they could get the 4 stripes on their pyjamas and wear their uniforms on a nationally televised hypnotist/magician show. What happened at SAA was not right either to the PDI's but remember it also happened to the white males at the time . People got bumped off short lists for pilots family members amongst other things. It is not right what is happening now but something is very wrong at SAA at the moment. Good luck to everyone who leaves and especially those who stay.

[thincatblue]

Fortunately for Pilotd - he is exactly the type that SAA or SA on the whole is looking for. He is the product of the outcome based education where the common denominator has been lowered to suit the need of "we -da people" It is happening all over SA. The question is: how long before business SA and the economy on the whole (that has been extremely strong up to now)takes the same route that is in store for SAA?

My prediction for SAA-
1.exodus of the white pilots (how many still remains to be seen)- this will be used ad infinitum by management to cover up any shortcoming or f:mad:up's in the future
2. Planes on the ground with goverment stepping in with take-over money and getting direct entries from elsewhere ( hey-air zimbabwe is still flying and I am sure some of their "cadres" will be keen on joining their families in SA)
3. Selling off all international routs- (you must realise that it is here where SAA actually faces compition - so move on to Africa where there is no real competition as yet??)
4. SAA becomes the national and regional carrier with the "right" quotas of staff (must get representation of the countries demographics you know!) and awarding itself all the "best airline in/to africa" awards!

I am more that just a little negative at the moment, but feel we must face facts? Where is that damn parachute!

[JetNut]

Lets not detract from the real problem at hand here. SAA is where it is today because of past incompetent leadership. All of whom happen to be WHITE!

So there seems to be no basis in the argument that the reason for the perceived demise in the national airline is based on racial factors.

Incompetence is found in all races, nationalities and cultures...

Twinjock:


The answer is simple my friends - I left SA because I was tired of flying with "tokens"!


Please take the log out of your eye mate, most of the carriers in the middle east have a cadet programme too. This is how life is, it is their country, and it is only fair that they attempt to put designated groups in their aircraft.

So, you really are still flying with "tokens". I'd like to see the look on your face when their cadets bypass you due to the fact that a seniority system is non-existent in these companies.

But, my argument is. You make the best of a perceived bad situation ( its only bad depending on your point of reference). If not, you remove yourself from the environment causing the stress (like twinjock here, who however, still finds it necessary to peruse the African forums, I'm not the only one confused here, I'm sure).

Grow up...there are some things in life that you cannot change, like the macro-environment.

Whites will not leave South Africa en masse. 13 years have passed since the collective whinging started, and yet still over 5 million remain! And 13 years is enough time to get on a plane/boat/train/car and scatter.

The grass is not always greener on the other side. Read some of the posts by our Aussie contributers...not happy campers.

PS: The aircraft I fly for SAA to Harare (always full) is for some reason still populated with middle age white men. The word "opportunist" comes to mind!

[specimus]

Jetnut
Before you shout your mouth off check your facts. I have flown for one of the middle east carriers for the last ten years. We do have a cadet scheme, like most airlines do, but there is no jumping up the line, as promotion to command is done purely on hours requirement and seniority,i.e if your hours are good and your seniority number is good you will be put forward for command course regardless of nationality expat or local.

[Flyer14]

Guys, please don't generalise about non-white pilots!
I'm an Indian (meaning not black enough, not white enough). I've cut my teeth instructing and now I'm touring all the s###holes of Africa, tents, containers, etc. I've been there and no I'm not a cadet. I also get pissed off when I see less experienced or less passionate okes, or airline sons getting in without doing the rounds. I've done about 5 contracts now and the majority of the captains I flew with, where white and absolutely awesome okes, infact the only guy who had a chip on his shoulder was a non-white. I want to get to the airlines someday as well, but if the oke next to me thinks I'm a "token" and treats me as such, then he deserves to be given the boot. Like your guys I want a level playing field as well, I can see where BEE comes from but aviation is not the place to be fast tracking people, safety should always come first.
You know on contract, no matter what the guys colour is, we make it as enjoyable as possible and I would go to the ends of the earth for some of those guys. I hope someday we can all get along.

[sexdriven]

I do not agree with this policy. But why is it that when the company and country were enforcing their apartheid policies, we were all standing back and looking the other way. Now that the shoe is on the other foot, we are all up in arms.

[Solid Rust Twotter]

Onya, Mr 14.:ok:

It's unfortunate that the guys with the right stuff and great attitudes continue being regarded as tokens because of a system in place to fast track others who are not prepared to put in the hard yards. When the whole deal reverts to merit, then only will things return to normal.

On contract getting on for 12 years now. Still waiting for that break...:}



Sexdriven

What would you have liked what was then more than likely a bunch of schoolkids to have done? Are you saying two wrongs do in fact make a right? What was done was that a referendum was held and pretty much the white population of SA eligible to vote then chose to change the system to what they believed was a better one, in which all people of SA had a say. It's unfortunate that the trust they had in a new dispensation was broken and a culture of revenge and entitlement has taken the place of hope and commitment to a better future. The **** remains the same, only the flies have changed.

[fluffyfan]

DJ do managemnet types like yourself read these pages anymore or do you just avoid all the negative critisim and pretend everything is ok?
What you :mad: idiots do not realise is that the majority of pilots at SAA are making contingency plans, there is a rumour that Qantas may be coming to do a roadshow and adding Pilots to the list of jobs that are required in Aus......if this happens I assure you, you can close down SAA because you will not have people to fly the aircraft anymore.
Why dont the short sighted racisit management at SAA look around and see what is happening in the rest of the world, there is a huge pilot shortage, they need to look after the highly skilled pilot stock that they have if they have any hope of moving forward......there are no Chinese or Indian contract pilot to come and fly the aircraft for you when you have chased us all away, there are very few pilots left in SA working for the competitors who want to come to SAA with all the incompetence displayed by management, in case you have not knoticed Nationwide, Comair, 1Time are in the middle of there own pilot crisis.
You management idots should be very careful what you wish for......you may just get it......you may get it not because of any clever management or negotiation on your behalf, but because all your pilots have :mad: off becuse they cant stand the incompetence displayed by you on a daily basis...............oh and by the way, I am aware of at least 4 previously disadvantaged people who have been for interviews and should be coming to tell you guys to stick your job where the sun dont shine any day now

[AfricanSkies]

What you see happening in the tree of SAA is what is happening all through the forest which is South Africa.

Worse, South Africa is on a drug called 2010 at the moment and the comedown after that drug is finished is going to be very hard.

There aren't 5 million whites here anymore. Last statistic I heard was that there were only less than 2 million left out of the 4 million from the 1994 census. Couldn't believe it when I heard it, but then realised that more than half of the friends and people I know have left, including my whole family except me:ugh:

[allovertheplace]

An eye for an eye makes the world blind!!!

[B200Drvr]

Well said SRT, could not agree with you more.
If there are 35 million blacks in SA and 2 million whites, where are all the black pilots that have paid for their own flight training in the last ten years,( there are more upper and middle class black families in SA than white) been instructing, worked on contract for a few 1000 hours for crap pay and living in **** holes away from their families in order to get into SAA?(airlines)
By my reckoning there should be 17 - 1 ratio on contract, as most of the guys I flew with have been flying for less than 6 years. The company I worked for employed people of all races, religions and sex, and I flew with a couple of "pilots of colour," but not one black pilot who had financed his own route, in fact I have never flown with a black pilot, cause they just seem to skip the route I am on. (non airline)
IMHO you cannot force intergration or quota's they need to happen over time, and doing so will be the downfall of any gathering, institution or Nation.

[B Sousa]

On contract getting on for 12 years now. Still waiting for that break...
SRT, tell the truth, your waitng for that large breasted Blonde who owns a Brewery and makes her own Biltong, so you can retire in the fashion to which you have grown accustomed.

[Trawler]

I think that if all you high and mighty SAA pilots leave management will still be able to replace you with other pilots who will take the oppurtunity to get onto the big time. So don't think you are indispensable.

[beechbum]

I think that if all you high and mighty SAA pilots leave management will still be able to replace you with other pilots who will take the oppurtunity to get onto the big time. So don't think you are indispensable.
Sour grapes is it trawler.....post something that makes some sort of sense.
Don't know why honestly I've lowered myself to reply as after all I am high and mighty. :ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:
Then again there is always one..!!!!

[Trawler]

Not sour grapes. If you leave there is a demand and a eager supply of young guns who will try their luck to replace you.

[Avi8tor]

Gotta love the law of supply and demand. Right now, no shortage of supply.

Sorry guys, don't see SAA closing down if a few jump ship. Still say the number of pilots that will actually leave will be rather small.

Very hard for a guy in his late 40's, who is a captain on 738's, sell up and be a FO at Qantas. Its only the FO's with young families that would look at the middle east or australasia.

[DuckingFast]

Since having resigned from SAA and leaving in two weeks, my life has been chaotic. The stress on my family has been huge. Having second thoughts, I kept telling myself that, “the right decision isn’t always the easiest one”

Last week I attended a road show by our CEO and upper management. I was a little concerned that maybe there was a really positive announcement and it would just be my bad luck that I have now resigned. I tried to be as objective as possible, tried to avoid chatting to the doomsayers, tried my best to be an outsider looking in. I wanted to forget about the detail and just try and concentrate on the overall impression – Do my leaders inspire me? Do I have long term confidence in management? What is the vision for SAA?

As I sat there, listening to my colleagues fighting for their survival, I can’t describe to you the inner peace that swept over me. I won’t be a part of this anymore. As I drove home, a more relaxed man, I realized that this time, the right decision is also the easiest one.

[DuckingFast]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McjuvuydWkA&mode=related&search=

[Avi8tor]

I wish you all the best. Not sure what airline you are off to next, but please be sure to keep us up to date with the NEW crap u have to deal with.

I kinda find it funny, the boss says 'guys, we have to make money, its a business' and now its like its the end of the world.

[Frogman1484]

Duckingfast...good on you mate.

Moving is not easy but I can only tell you that once you leave you will feel all of the stress of SA lift. You will be surprised on how all of the aggression, crime and all of the other bull is being carried on your shoulders.

It will take time for you and your family to settle, usually the kids settle quicker, within a year you will looking back and only remember the good parts of life in SA...and wondering if Jetnut will be turning off the lights.


cheers and good luck

[Shockwave Sam]

Just to throw my hat in the ring to this rather round and round debate. SAA won't close its doors "mass exodus" or not. There are plenty of pilots able to fill the boots of those leaving and this attitude that the resignees are "indispensable" is total nonsense- i'm no fan of SAA but grow up chaps-you may think you are sky gods but sadly without your "Airline cap" you're just like the rest of us!!

[fluffyfan]

Shockwave you sound about as informed as the esteemed management at SAA, let me ask you do you have any idea what you are talking about?

Avi8tor same goes for you, as I have said the ones who know what is going on are the people working at SAA and dealing with this crap day in and day out......ie myself and the rest of the poor SAA pilots who post here and try to enlighten you on the current problems, I dont post about problems at Emirates Avi8tor because I have no idea of the true story there.

While I agree that no one is indispensable, perhaps you could explain how in your small mind SAA could survive the following scenario......at present almost everyone I have spoken to is looking at alternative employment, lets assume management push too far and 50% of the pilots leave, thats 400 pilots, SAA is currently very short of pilots, so you can stop all operations until SAA finds new crew, where are they going to find new crew? I am not sure if Comair, Nationwide and 1 time combined have 400 pilots between them, not withstanding that these 3 airlines would not allow there pilots to leave like that without a fight, looks anti-competative to me and we know how SAA got shafted last time.

So assuming 50% leave, I am betting many of that number will be from the training dept, so there will be no way to train crew for a start, so they will have to outsource......an extreamly costly business, even if the training dept does not close down, it takes a good 3 months to train an experienced pilot on a new type like the airbus......which only SAA operate in SA, and that is very close to the training done in Toulouse, not the 3 day wonder course they perform in the ****ty airlines you work for

So please......enlighten me where these pilots are coming from, in case you have not noticed SA is at the height of a massive crime wave and most people are questioning the wisdom of staying here

That said, how much money do you think SAA will loose while operations cease for 1 week, 2 weeks......a month.

Avi8tor I work at SAA I am there virually every day....things are serious, if management push just that little bit I can definitley see a mass exodus.

Shockwave I wish you no luck in your career, I hope that one day when you get to where you want to be you will have some young p:mad:es wishing the demise of your career, pretty much like you seem to be doing to the pilot at SAA

[Insane]

Speculation and guesses are FREE! The only people who are qualified to comment on the situation in SAA are the people who are exposed to the issues on a daily basis. My respect to the guys and gals who put up with the uncertainty daily, and still put their best foot forward and still deliver a safe and professional ride.:D

[Shockwave Sam]

Fluffyfan-now deep breath sport-you're going to blow something. Thanks for assuming that "I'm some young p:mad:s" -I like the young part anyway!! Sadly not though and as to "wishing the demise" of the careers of any pilot be they SAA or other that is just laughable!I simply made the observation that should there be a mass exodus of pilots from SAA they are replacable-no major airline has ever closed its doors because a few crew left!!
As for the "I wish you no luck in your career" comment it is more reminiscent of a spoilt child than a professional pilot!!! Good thing is at least if my career does turn to s:mad:t I 'll know who to blame now won't I?

[Q4NVS]

Even when the Captain jumps off a ship, it might float around for a while until someone takes over, but never will it sink immediately...

Btw, seeing that a few things are coming to a head this week AFAIK:


The last Paris flight by SAA
The BOKS in the RWC Final (in Paris)
Ever increasing "risk" that some of the experienced guys will be leaving SAA Shortly


What is the chances of seeing an A340 (Formation?) over the Stade de France on Saturday pm...?

Guess Not :O

[Avi8tor]

myself and the rest of the poor SAA pilots
Oh god, I hear violins. You STILL earn more/have better working conditions than EVERYBODY else in the industry in SA. I am not sure what u guys have got yourselves in an uproar about. Just 'cause somebody has pushed your piles back, now you guys dont wanna play anymore?

So please......enlighten me where these pilots are coming from
Every other airline in the country. Refer above.

Like EVERYBODY else in the world, you now have to make a profit. Welcome to the real world. Whats the biggy? If the profit motive is a problem for you, DON'T try any other airline in the world.

I will say it again, this is NOT a new problem. SAA has wasted BILLIONS since '94. Writing was on the wall for years.

[SAASFO]

Maybe not the other airlines Avi8tor, especially seeing as one of the concessions SAAPA is making to SAA management is to significantly reduce entry level salaries at SAA. The only pilots who will be earning more money going to SAA than at their current airlines will be FO's from the other airlines, and possibly not all of them either. All Captains at the other South African airlines are earning far more than future entry level salaries at SAA. And we are talking about three weeks before these salaries are implemented.

[Solid Rust Twotter]

Lower entry salaries, management trying to get rid of a certain demographic among the employees, long time to command, possibility of being bypassed in seniority if management get their way.

Not much reason to join SAA, is there....?

[Q4NVS]

And we are talking about three weeks before these salaries are implemented.

And this is going to help the bottom line How..?

AFAIK SAA is talking about reducing it's Pilot numbers, not increasing it with "Lower Paid" newbies.

Who really benefits here - Hmm, wait we all know...

[AirwayBlocker]

SAA is trying to save six hundred and something million rand by reducing the number of crew it has to pay. The reason given is to make the 7.5% profit margin averaged by the other major carriers around the world.

If they do retrench or scare off enough pilots to cause them to park aeroplanes and cancel flights, how long do all you extremely knowledgeable PPruners out there think it will take to lose that same amount or more? I know there are hundreds of variables but lets guesstimate (just for fun) that they park two A340's.

Anyone want to give an estimate?

[fluffyfan]

You STILL earn more/have better working conditions than EVERYBODY else in the industry in SA.

Yes Avi8tor we do.....any you at Emirates earn more/have better working conditions than the employees at Jupiter airlines do...........Qantas pilots are paid better than Jet Blue or Qantas link...........whats your point or does your racionale only apply to SAA.

Its not just about making a profit, the union has offered to give them concessions to the tune of R400 something million already and that was on the first round of negotiation, they wiped there arse with the offer, in the CEO roadshow (what a :mad: clown he obviously does not know what a roadshow is) they said this is political in there own words, they want black captains from other Airlines (and I dont see any in SA so I assume its our African brothers), they want to be able to get rid of people with no regard to seniority.............they want to employ Black foreign crew to get the numbers right, because of there inability to solve the fact that there are so few in this country because they have not invested the time or the money into developing an interest in Aviation into the black community for the past 13 years

So Shockwave dont dust off your CV just yet pal you wont be filling anyones shoes.

This is what management wants, its political......the union is very powerful however and are doing everything in there power to be reasonable and make managementt see what every other airline in the world sees.

It has not happend, but if management pull a Robert Mugabe.....it will be way more than a few pilots departing the paradise and huge cars and over inflated salaries you think we have...........I for one have my plan of action and will embark on that plan when/if I see the inevitable collapse of SAA.

[gtseraf]

Mates of mine in SAA have been keeping me up to date with the latest situation there.
I left in 1999 after 10 memorable years in SAA. At the time I saw some writing on the wall and decided I did not want to be part of that future. I am now settled in Aus, working for an Asian airline. Yes, it has it's challenges but I reckon I have gained so much from the move.
I'm not bashing SAA here but there is a big wide world out there with some opportunities, especially now, to experience something new and different. As far as the crime situation etc. goes, well it doesn't take a rocket scientest to work out that things are pretty bad right now and don't look like they'll improve.
Guys will stay, guys will go and ultimately everyone will make their decisions work for them, don't knock anyone either way.
It would be a great shame to see an airline with such proud history and in many cases in the past, world leaders in innovation, be consigned to the category of mediocre, dodgy third world status.
Hopefully sense will prevail and things will be done correctly, sadly I don't see this happening. Too many agendas.
To duckingfast and the others who have decided to go. Good luck, it will be difficult at first but you may well find this will turn out to be the best thing you ever did.

[jnignon]

"I am so sick and tired of being blamed for everything that goes wrong in our beautifull country" Are you really? So just a question who sould be blamed.After all you white sout african created this mess. and now that the country want to give opportunity to colored all you white do is complain. I bet you wish apartheid makes a come back so all the glamours SAA pilot jobs will be reserved just for you racist white men. Like they say once a racist always a racist

[Frogman1484]

jnignon...are you for real? Looser!!!!

[merlinxx]

As your in KATL, may I suggest you get yourself out to KFTY or KPDK and check out some real aviation. Your very badly spelling, and turn of phrase leads me thinks, to you being unsuitable in an aviation situation. Affirmative action only works if, and this is a big if, there are the properly qualified people to take on the tasks required. A load voice, big gun, big car, won't get you far in our big wide world.

[ERASER]

jnignon said " white sout african / you white / white men "
& " Like they say once a racist always a racist "

You said it numbnuts.............

E

[Shockwave Sam]

Fluffyfan-"So Shockwave dont dust off your CV just yet pal you wont be filling anyones shoes." Are you serious? Are you actually a line pilot employed by SAA-mate I've probably been in this game longer than you! But enough now - getting bored argueing with some vitriolic soap boxer! BTW why not send a memo to your management rather than slagging them off in this forum?

[Avi8tor]

I know that the 'newly advantaged' have a chip on there shoulder's, but at the end of the day, they cant change the status quo. You guys at SAA mustn't get this out of perspective. My prediction is that you will lose EFP and confirmed business class rebated travel. Thats it. Getting rid of the 744's will reduce the long term training burden. Maybe see a change to the fleet lock/bid system.

On this whole black crew thing, Cadet Group 1 can't be far from command now. Sadly the scheme is creating to few black males, I know why. But give it a few yrs, the problem will go away by itself.

'B' scales? Good idea, but don't see it happening. Is it gonna turn into RyanAir, no chance. Think there is a whole lot of over reaction going on, would love to be on the jump seat and listen to what gets said in the cockpit.

[AirwayBlocker]

So why is the scheme producing too few black males?

[Avi8tor]

2 reasons:-

- Education system is still back in the apartheid era. The BIGGEST failing of the ANC goverment. I have been in on some of the final interviews a few yrs ago, truly shocking standard of candidate. Not sure if its changed, dont believe it has.

- Too few people start the course. If you only start with 12 per course, your chances of getting 12 out are very slim. Start with a 100, wash 25% at 15hrs etc.

I have never been a fan of the cadet system. Always believed we should go to the old 'subsidy' system that the boere had to get more 'afrikaans white males' to fly.

[fluffyfan]

jnignon I should not really bother replying to you because you seem like a character who has not taken full advantage of the US educational system.......what did you type "Black" into the search function and decide to jump on the band wagon and support you black brothers? unfortunatley you made youself look like a turd..........lets get one thing straight pal, I am an African, and you are an American, please go and make a banner and protest in front of some US courthouse. In attemping to expain to you what the management of SAA and the government would like to do to correct the racial imbalance of the pilot numbers I will try and equate it to the US, its like Delta employing direct entry Captains from Air Mexico to correct the hispanic numbers in there pilot group.

To add to the racial imbalance reasons that Avi8tor has mentioned, the Government has not plowed the funds or effort back into the population group that voted them into power, they have made a few billionairs of themselves, and all built nice houses and set up swiss bank accounts, the cadet programme was woefully inadequate and corrupt I might add, because when white sons and daughter's of well off business men and training captains of SAA were awarded these bursaries it showed the true colours of the Cadet scheme.

Avi8tor you may be right, I hope you are right, it may just be EFP and tickets that we loose, and I am fine with that if it means SAA is stable and making a profit, the union is trying to negotiate with management on these issues, they claim its about making a 7.5% profit margin, however when concessions are offered they turn there back and say they have political reasons for wanting agreements scrapped, agreements that have been negotiated during the last 30 years or more. The first group of black Captains (that were not accelerated) are filtering through now, and I have nothing but the utmost respect for them for doing it the hard way like everyone else, the government would like to take a 23 year old person who has been in the company 4 years and promote them to Captain due to the colour of there skin, that destroys all the pride the current PDI's who have taken the hard route, it also creates unwanted tension in the pilot group......its there excuse for failing to create enough PDI pilots in the first place.

If there political will is strong enough they could possibly enforce this, and when that happens you will see pilots jumping ship left right and center, if aircraft start to sit on the ground you will see a loss of billions upon billions, and I think its been established that the public has lost patience with a loss making Government subsidised airline, that will be the end of SAA because you will not find enough pilots and train them quick enough to fill the gap left by the ones leaving......Avi8tor says they will be repaced and it wont be that many, well not based on what I have seen

[bbj3]

A few facts, the government cannot let SAA go down the tube.As its the flag carrier( eg look at air Zim)All the **** thats going on in that country but the planes still fly-"Just".All you guys that want to go, the top managment is wellcoming that fact with a big smile.Some of the guys indicate that they can't find the pilots to replace those that go.All of them will be replaced in a flash, even if the airline pays top $'s(I know of plenty of chaps who will take your place)It will be the easiest interview, when can you start,please sign here-"Welcome".SAA will keep on chucking, now you will understand the term dog eat dog.There will be individual contracts handed out,the best contracts will be to those new boys whom know how to haggle and how desparate the situation gets at SAA, in the end the union has no power as if the powers that be wanted the union canceled tomorrow they could, but they love this battering and as time moves on, no flts are canceled morale is low and life goes on.The white man in SAA is f:mad:d so for those old guys with a few years left hang in there, for those young guns what are you wainting FOR......:=:=:=

[eish]

Bit off the point but some local education - there = "daar", their = "hulle".

;)

[fluffyfan]

eish.........I speak Ingleesh good, I learn it from a book

[Gyro Nut]

Not sure if Fluffy knows the difference between "there" and "their". See the other thread on pilot licences vs. diplomas vs. degrees.

[Insane]

bbj3 is right, F.O. entry level will be reduced to comm., as long as you have multi I.F. In some cases, NONE of the above. Comm. only! That will happen to accommodate the disadvantaged. In some cases as low as 300hrs, no multi, no I.F, Low pay but loads of crew. Captains over worked, underpaid.....soon it's bye bye to greener pastures.:ugh:

[Q4NVS]

That will happen to accommodate the disadvantaged. In some cases as low as 300hrs, no multi, no I.F, Low pay but loads of crew.

That might not be necessary then - they can just start roping in all their Cadets (40 odd) flying all over the show at SAX, Link and Solenta...

If this happens, it might be these companies that suffer in the short term due to lack of crew, IMHO.

[RobinB]

Hmm, from a non pilot, I have read with vast interest on this subject. One of the things being touted about has been "the future". So, when are all you short haul jocks going to do your conversion tickets ? From airplane pilot to maglev pilot - think about it......... :hmm:

[Avi8tor]

F.O. entry level will be reduced to comm., as long as you have multi I.F.
That always has been the MINIMUM requirement. Just always had more experienced applicants.

As SAA has ramped up its cadet program, now that it is at 43, I think it will have all the 'newly advantaged' people it will need. When I left SA, NOT that long ago, the Airlink cadets were going to stay at Airlink, cause SAA didn't have jobs for them.

Lets not get this SAA thing all out of proportion.

[Jamex]

"I am so sick and tired of being blamed for everything that goes wrong in our beautifull country" Are you really? So just a question who sould be blamed.After all you white sout african created this mess. and now that the country want to give opportunity to colored all you white do is complain. I bet you wish apartheid makes a come back so all the glamours SAA pilot jobs will be reserved just for you racist white men. Like they say once a racist always a racist

Who is this idiot?:rolleyes: Cant spell, obviously knows nothing about SA. Probably never been here and definitely not wanted here. Well said Fluffyfan:D The last thing SA as a whole needs right now is this type of moronic instigation from "politicised" but ill-informed "brothers" from the good old YOUESSOFA!! Go find yourself another Saddam to hang and butt out of our business!


GO BOKKE!!!!!!!

[McGreaser]

Out of curiosity how many commanders of colour are in SAA ? No, seriously guys ? Considering the pilot populance in SAA am sure the number is very minute. Don't you think for a country where the majority of people is black that the number of pilots in the flag carrier should show a certain balance or at least should have a respectable number of black people ? The number of pilots of colour should be increased over time to keep some racial harmony.
The issue of AA is most of the time stuffed up by govts. eg Zim cricket, rugby. Whilst the intentions are very noble, our leaders have used it as an arm breaking technique in the end the poor majority don't benefit whilst the affluent blacks benefit. (BEE :rolleyes: comes to mind) In order to correct the colour in the flight deck the govt must start right at the grass roots level by providing proper education in the townships from primary school right up to tertiary education for the people of colour. From there they should be given access to loans or facilities to attend flying school and then of course into mainstream flying. But also at the same time these opportunities should continue to be available to EVERY South African who meets the minimum requirements.
This business of parachuting unqualified people into seats of expensive equipement under the guise of AA could have negative effects in the long run as people will say "twas those AA's that pranged the aircraft...."Am not saying blacks cannot fly, but we want to do it after having gone through the mill just like everybody else.

[FlingWingKing]

Our government is not interested in longterm solutions, but rather short term "doctoring" of the symptoms. If you want to fix a certain problem you have to start at the cause of that particular problem....and that is hard work.

The problem of putting pilots of color in the cockpit is that there is no-one to put there because there is no passion for flying among the majority of black people. Think about it. Being a pilot is a real crap job if you don't have the passion for airplanes....and it is hard work.

It is much easier to attend lectures at a university, (because of late it is a right and not a privilege), and then being given a degree, (because it is the culture of "pass one, pass all"), and becoming an engineer,accountant,etc so they can land a job just because of the color of their skin at a firm who is being forced to have the numbers right. Then being paid a huge salary for doing sweet fanny nothing because at the end of the day, they know nothing.

The problem with these people is that "they don't know that they don't know"!!!

[Avi8tor]

govt must start right at the grass roots level by providing proper education in the townships from primary school right up to tertiary education for the people of colour.
In an ideal world, but remember this is from the people that brought you the REDUCING crime statistics.

Being a pilot is a real crap ...........and it is hard work.

It is???? Really??? :}

Be careful to say all AA appointments are all people that know nothing. Think its a huge generalisation, and a little racist. The cadets at the moment are a motivated, keen bunch. Happy to be a pax when there flying. That said, I do agree with the level of interest issue.

In this thread I raised this issue. Would be interested to hear if the level of applicant to the cadet program has improved? It was truly shocking on the final interviews I sat in on a few yrs back.

[SAASFO]

The SAA cadet scheme has been put on hold indefinitely. So now they will really struggle to find black pilots as it is almost impossible to self-fund one's own training with the high cost of flight training these days, even if the desire is there.

[Avi8tor]

When did that happen? Thought bringing it home finally was the best thing they have done in years. Not a huge fan of the scheme, but was something.

[Q4NVS]

is almost impossible to self-fund one's own training with the high cost of flight training these days

If the desire is there, it can never be too expensive...

(Flying has never been cheap, not even in 1973)

[planecrazi]

Johannesburg - Plans to fire about 700 technicians at SAA Technical (http://www.fin24.co.za/articles/default/display_article.aspx?Nav=ns&ArticleID=1518-24_2205326) - a unit of state-owned airline South African Airways (SAA) - may have serious safety repercussions, a union spokesperson claimed on Friday.
"The majority of these staff members are highly qualified technicians. These employees have the competency to certify aircraft as airworthy after repairs," said Jaco Kleynhans, Solidarity spokesperson.
Solidarity, as well as two other unions, is objecting to SAA plans to dismiss more than 2 220 members.
SAA, which suffered an R883m loss in the year to March, plans to offload these workers to save money, but the airline has said this option was "a last resort".
Solidarity said SAA Technical - which conducts in-house and third-party maintenance and repair functions - had already lost 300 technicians since January 2006.
"The safety of passengers on SAA's own aircraft and those on other airlines for which SAA Technical provides maintenance services is at risk," said Kleynhans.

[biggdav]

Coloured pilots?
never flew with one but if you have an SAA aircraft with 3-to 400 passengers with a black captain there who hasnt a clue, but just there to make up numbers, im sorry but this shouldnt be. Unlike a manager in an office, who can easily cover up, you cant BS when it comes to flying! You can either do it or you cant.

[Avi8tor]

I am fairly sure that the training section will stick to its guns. Leave the race thing alone. The utterances of some brain donor in HR hardly is relevant.

[Solid Rust Twotter]

Until Training Section leaves or is replaced...:(

[biggdav]

Not just for black pilots but any colour/race

[Bobbejaan]

Figjam bailed.:hmm:

[bianchi]

Can you confirm he has bailed or was he ask nicely to leave ......FIRED ??

[ZSSAK]

Interesting to know....,thought it was just rumours.....

[Katters]

Doesn't matter if ut black /white... if you are in the left seat you MUST know what ur doing!!! period. if not for yourself, doit for the children!!!

:D

[Oom Kaspaas]

Latest story at SAA they dont have enough crew for 100 flights next month. Possible intake in the new year.

TAAG want SAA to operate their Lisbon route for the next 6 months. Now they need to reactivate 60 pilots. SAA have known about this for months. This is maybe why TAJ is possibly on his way out.

[fluffyfan]

Maybe now is the time to retrench 250 pilots........Clowns

[missingblade]

What happened about the plan to recruit pilots from other African countries for SA/SAA??? Heard there were talks with the labour dept regarding Visa's a year or two ago already..... I am sure Kenyan/ Nigerian etc airlines will be real happy when SA steals their pilots to replace all the SA guys that went to Asia / Mid East.

NTW had 3 guys from Zambia at one point and now have 2 Zimbabwean gents ..... maybe if Comair hires Mugabe's last remaining pilots they can wiggle their way out of the courts.....

[cavortingcheetah]

:hmm:
A little bird told me that he was at the SACAA the other day. He met two Rwandan gentlemen there who were validating British Commercial licences in order to fly for a certain South African executive jet company.
At the moment you cannot fly as a pilot for SAA unless you are a South African but beware, nationalisation has always been subject to political expedience.:eek:
Remember that lanky little runner called Zola Budd? Some English girl she was indeed!:yuk:

[Q4NVS]

Latest story at SAA they dont have enough crew for 100 flights next month. Possible intake in the new year.

As well as B-Scales in the New Year..?:\

[cavortingcheetah]

:hmm:

Latest real story at SAA is that the December roster/crewing, is going to be a tad disruptive for the guys due to the call of the Emirates. As for intakes well, the new finance director, who shall be nameless, walked out of his last scheduled major SAA meeting, citing the unpreparedness of the rest of the board members. An intake at this stage of the proceedings looks a shade doubtful.
Good luck anyway.:)

[saywhat]

Air Zim is having a roadshow next week.:E

[cargodoor]

Shotgun!!!!:ugh:

[EL COMMANDANT]

VERY HEATED INDEED

FIRST OF ALL
:mad: ANYBODY WHO BLAMES WERE SAA IS ON BLACK PILOTS AND NOT ON MANAGEMENT

SECONDLY
I BLACK AND DAMN PROUD OF IT AND I DON'T FLY AIRLINES AND I NEVER WILL. I LOVE CONTRACT FLYING AND I'LL PROBALY DIE FLYING CONTRACTS. I'M ALSO VERY ANTI ANC GOVT

BUT

AFF. ACTION IS A RACIAL ISSUE AND THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH IT. RSA WITH A POPULATION OF APROX. 50M HAS MAYBE A 20% WHITE POPULATION. DOES IT NOT MAKE SENSE TO ANY OF YOU THAT THE NATIONAL CARRIER SHOULD REFLECT THAT???? Can YOU IMANGANE BA WITH 80% CHINESE PILOTS?? ANY AIRLINE (ESPECIALLY NATIONAL) SHOULD BE MADE UP OF THE INDIGENOUS INHABITANTS OF THAT LOCALITY.
AN AFRICAN AIRLINER SHOULD BE MADE UP OF AFRICANS (BLACK OR WHITE) BUT WE ALL KNOW THAT THERE IS HELL OF LOT MORE BLACK AFRICANS THAN WHITE AFRICANS. AT THE END OF IT ALL, IT'S AS SIMPLE AS THAT.

AFRICA FOR AFRICANS

PS. TO BE AFRICAN IS NOT ABOUT SKIN COLOUR IT'S ABOUT A MIND SET, AN ATTITUDE AND A CERTAIN APPROACH TO LIFE BUT I CAN SEE THAT MOST ON THIS THREAD ARE NOT AFRICANS AT ALL , SO :mad: OFF TO EUROPE IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT!!!!

[brabazon1]

El Com. You are a fool.

[van447]

to el commandant...

yeah...african mindset...look at the state that africa is in...good mindset...

[imustbemad]

El Com

I fail to see your comparison between SAA and BA. At last count SAA had close to, if not, 100% South African pilots.

[CALCULATOR]

El Comm I think you need some leave, come back to the city for a month or 2.

[Jacobest]

AFF. ACTION IS A RACIAL ISSUE AND THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH IT

I fail to see how you can make this statement and not see the problem with it.

And when I add this AFRICA FOR AFRICANSI start to see where you coming from.

Africa is for Africans provided they are black.

I am White, also damn proud of it and to top it off, I am third generation AFRICAN. Yet wherever I go in Africa, Passport control always gives me a second glance cause "how can a whitie get a RSA passport"

I have even had it where I was refused entrance into Sudan because they do not believe in white south africans

So here is my solution for you, export all the whites out of AFRICA, cause that is what you okes want after all, but then lets export all the blacks out of europe as well, cause Africa is for blacks, so lets keep Europe for the europeans. Not SO:ok:

[JetNut]

El Comm.

Given, many of the posts here are written by blatant and arrogant racists. But, please don't help them confirm that stereotype by being an ass.

[saywhat]

EL COMMANDANT.

I too, like to go fishing on a Sunday.:):}

[Jamex]

El Com
Your title says it all! Obviously suffering from delusions of adequacy? Normally I would not bother to reply to your senseless drivel. No profit in it at all. Nevertheless, just cant help myself today so here goes....

"FIRST OF ALL
:mad: ANYBODY WHO BLAMES WERE SAA IS ON BLACK PILOTS AND NOT ON MANAGEMENT"

I have not seen, nor do I recall, a single posting where black pilots were blamed for the state that SAA is in.

SECONDLY
I BLACK AND DAMN PROUD OF IT AND I DON'T FLY AIRLINES AND I NEVER WILL. I LOVE CONTRACT FLYING AND I'LL PROBALY DIE FLYING CONTRACTS. I'M ALSO VERY ANTI ANC GOVT

I'm happy for you on this count, friend. But fortunately with your attitude you are not in the airlines and by your own admission never will be. Serious doubt as to your mental stability and state of mind! I suggest you approach a professional for assistance as you are clearly a danger to yourself and those around you.

AFF. ACTION IS A RACIAL ISSUE AND THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH IT. RSA WITH A POPULATION OF APROX. 50M HAS MAYBE A 20% WHITE POPULATION. DOES IT NOT MAKE SENSE TO ANY OF YOU THAT THE NATIONAL CARRIER SHOULD REFLECT THAT???? Can YOU IMANGANE BA WITH 80% CHINESE PILOTS?? ANY AIRLINE (ESPECIALLY NATIONAL) SHOULD BE MADE UP OF THE INDIGENOUS INHABITANTS OF THAT LOCALITY.
AN AFRICAN AIRLINER SHOULD BE MADE UP OF AFRICANS (BLACK OR WHITE) BUT WE ALL KNOW THAT THERE IS HELL OF LOT MORE BLACK AFRICANS THAN WHITE AFRICANS. AT THE END OF IT ALL, IT'S AS SIMPLE AS THAT.

What does make sense, my racist "pal", is that SAA should be run according to sound business practices and should certainly not be employing the likes of you! I only hope all the decent black professional pilots distance themselves from your comments. By the way, I am an African by way of the fact that my geat-grandfather down to my sons were all born in SA. By international definition this makes me an African not a European. Since you chose to ride the well-worn race donkey again let me assure you I am white and proud of it seeing absolutely no reason at all why I need not be.

AFRICA FOR AFRICANS

Right on, brother! And Europe for Europeans, America for the Americans, Asia for the Asians, etc. Welcome to the reality of the global village. But for white men who invented flying you would not have a contract now.

PS. TO BE AFRICAN IS NOT ABOUT SKIN COLOUR IT'S ABOUT A MIND SET, AN ATTITUDE AND A CERTAIN APPROACH TO LIFE BUT I CAN SEE THAT MOST ON THIS THREAD ARE NOT AFRICANS AT ALL , SO :mad: OFF TO EUROPE IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT!!!!

You said it, but unfortunately you fail the test according to the criteria you have established.

Now that I have wasted my time trying to make sense of the rantings and ravings of a very sick mind, Mr Moderator, why is this post allowed to stand but any white persons reply or posting in a similar vein would be deleted?

PS. Sayswho, I dont think this character is fishing, I meet with his type on a regular basis. The really scary part is, this type of attitude enjoys massive support and wide media coverage. The reason Zuma is so popular and Mugabe is still in power.

[SAASFO]

Well said, Jamex!! My vote for reply of the month. :D

[saywhat]

Well said, Jamex!! My vote for reply of the month.

More like catch of the day ..................

[nugpot]

Mr Moderator, why is this post allowed to stand but any white persons reply or posting in a similar vein would be deleted?

Good question. Will probably never be answered.

[4HolerPoler]

I'm on the couch with my bowl of popcorn - carry on; great debate.

4HP

[TwinJock]

Speaking about BEE - any idea what happened to Izak Nombo?? The man was a captain at SAX, a gentleman and a very good operator at that. He made a runner when his name was found by the Yanks in a terrorist cave in Afghanistan and has never been seen since!

He was ear marked for greater things at our National Airline - would have been Ops Manager at SAA by now, if he stayed!

[Alternate Law]

Folks, it is obvious that el com is non other than the much (in)illustrious M.R. The one of SAA vs CCMA and CAA 'inspector' fame. Of course, the dead give away is the same inability to understand the Caps Lock key on the computer that typified the letter he wrote accusing the (then) SAAPA chairman of attempting to assassinate him.

The vocab and syntax are also the same. Great guy - let's all take him seriously...