Why are we all so rude to Cabin Crew ?

[tezzer]

Flew back from KUL to MAN via DXB over the last few days, and it never ceases to amaze me the way SOME passengers verbally abuse cabin crew.

The "gentleman" sat in 1K on one of the sectors had put his jackest and bag at his feet. During the final safety check, the CC asked if he would like his jacket hanging up, and as he was in the front row, would he mind puting his bag in the overhead locker. An argument ensued as to why HE had to do it, not the CC, to which she calmy replied "How much does it weigh?". Whatever the weight was, she declined saying that it was company policy not to lift more then 5 kilos. Of course 1K didn't like this, as it meant getting off his spotty arse, and taking care of his own luggage. The shock, the horror.

Full marks to the young lady for turning on her heels with dignity, and leaving the ruse plonker to sort out his heavy bag.

Similarily, the two aged "old money" (her words, not mine) sat behind me in 4J&K who refused to turn off their mobile phones got right up my snotter too ! Despite repested advice to do so, in the video briefing, and by PA announcements, Mrs. Old Money continued to talk to a call centre, to find out why she couldn't send SMS messages. She was still taling when the cabin crew were advised to take their seats, at which point I piped up and asked why THEY were so special ? Got balck looks all the way to MAN though !

[west lakes]

There are threads on similar themes running around the forum, often from the CC point of view.
I can't help but think at times that the whole air travel experience is setting them up to be the target of SLF's frustrations.

Lets face it, you travel to the airport, endure (at times) queues for check in, queues for security, hang around in an expensive "warehouse" and then queue to actually get on the a/c.

At all these stages there is little time to "rebel" 'cos all you want to do is get to your destination. And anyway with the use of agents contractors etc. there's little point!

So the first opportunity is when your in the aluminium tube with a "captive" crew who are there "to cater to your demands".

It's IMO seems a bit like the road rage scenario.
It would be interesting to see if the incidence of poor passenger behavior has increased since the increase in security & the decrease of the concept of customer service prior to boarding.

Note that is not to say that any individuals are giving lower levels of service just that the companies involved are not providing adequate resources!

Coupled with that is the lack of consequence attitudes seen around the country where unruly behaviour is allowed and publicly seen to happen, with luittle or no consequence.

[Final 3 Greens]

Tezzer

I sit in row 1 quite a lot and my local airline are often faced with people who inadvertently leave bags on the floor.

The CC always politely ask "excuse me sir/madam, your bag needs to go in the overhead locker for take off and landing; may I place it there for you or would you prefer to do it yourself?"

It sounds to me a if my airline value premium customers more than the one you travelled on. Also, my airline would appear to train it's CC in defusing potential conflicts more effectively.

On the subject of the mobile phone still in use as the crew took their seats, this sounds like a clear breach of safety to me and frankly sounds too fantastic to believe. I cannot believe that a serious carrier would allow this to happen.

Given the flight details, I am assuming that the carrier is one who has grown a lot in recent years and whose service levels have suffered in inverse proportion.

[tezzer]

Assming that you have the airline right, to be honest, I don't think standards of service have slipped, not by my experience, anyway.
CC are always polite, and attentive, in fact very often overly so, in a nice kind of way, but then again, I've gone from Blue to Gold this year, so maybe thats why the're being nice to me.
As for the knob in row 1, why express his view of the "unbelivalbe airline, why am I not suprised ?" at the poor CC, only trying to do her job, and as for the old couple sitting behind me, as stated, she was still on the phone to a call centre, asking for the messenger sevice number to put in her phone as we lined up. I lost my rag by then, as I said and asked what made them special, and not liable to obey a legitimate instrucion.

Rant rant, it's good for my BP, apparently.

[13Alpha]

In my albeit limited experience of sitting at the pointy end, behaviour can be every bit as bad as at the back.

And that goes for the first class lounge as well. And since it's usually a smaller lounge, someone making a lot of noise or behaving like a tw@t is all the more annoying. :rolleyes:

What's wrong with these people ?

13Alpha

[lexxity]

So F3G why can't you lift your own back? Why should CC do it for you? Sorry, but to expect someone else to move your carry on is bang out of order. There is no way most of us will pick passengers bags up, because we don't want the injury and resultant time off work that comes with some pillock thinking that the allowance doesn't apply to them. We are trained in how to handle bags properly, but most still won't. The last bag I got off the carousel for a meet and assist weighed in at around 40kgs and wasn't tagged.

[Avman]

lexxity,

Do me a favour and carefully read F3G's post again. Then take a deep breath or two, wind your neck in and don't be so confrontational.

tezzer,

I agree there are some real to$$ers out there, but your title, Why are we all so rude to Cabin Crew ? I have to challenge.;) We are not all rude to CC. I for one must be one of the least demanding C class pax they come across.

[SXB]

Actually, most passengers are not rude to cabin staff, it's very much the exception and not the rule. At least it is on the airlines which I travel.

As F3G states, crew have dealt with the problem of bags in row 1 a thousand times, they know what to say and how to say it.

Lexxity clearly hasn't understood F3Gs post, or maybe she had a bad day today, the phrase "excuse me sir/madam, your bag needs to go in the overhead locker for take off and landing; may I place it there for you or would you prefer to do it yourself" is a very standard line that cabin crew use all the time. If it's a big bag then "may I place it there for you" may disappear, either way it's clear the bag has to go. When you're dealing with premium passengers politeness and formality is a given, and it's a two way thing. If a CC member said to me 'mate, get that bag shifted' I might, sitting on my €2000 ticket, suggest they shift it themselves. Though that's never happened of course.

I repeat that the vast majority of passengers are perfectly polite to CC.

[dustybin]

I'm CC and agree most passengers are really nice but there is always a knob on every flight. The heavy bag thing is my bug bear and refuse now due to being off for 3 months with an injury. Businessman are the worst offenders as they carry so much paperwork and crap, I'm sorry but they packed it, carried it to and through the airport and onto the aircraft, I'm sure they can manage that last little bit;) We had a knob on our flight tonight demanding this, that and the next thing in rude, aggressive manner. he is now probably still at the airport regretting it has we kicked is rude ass off (no we didn't over react but long story and he had been drinking and upsetting other pax)
My advise to everyone is if you are unhappy about service, delay, weather, fat smelly man next to you then tell/ask nicely you would be amazed what you get. If you start shouting, swearing or causing a scene then you get nothing. If people are nice then we all go out our way to help, talk to us like **** then it "sorry can't help you"
I know that the main problem is that as someone already stated that by the time you check in (been charged for over weight bags), tackled security and been striped of your dignity, riped off in shops, delayed and not had a fag in 6 hours. We are the first person you see in the company you booked with uniform and you want to take it out on someone or want someone to listen, I've been there myself:{ We will all listen as it's what we are good at but we can't sort out tech aircraft's, weather or ATC slots. nore can we predict and answer question such as "when will the weather improve?" " when will we take off? (in a ATC delay and the capt already told you the same as us) "What is that down there?" " will the car park be open at abc?" " what bus/train takes me to town?"
Sorry if this comes across as a rant but not meant that way, just a few pointers on how to get what you want when flying. Remember we are all someones wife,hubby,child:)
p.s when you are delayed so are we, we want to get home too. Plus it's always when we have something planed:mad:

[Eboy]

I think uneven enforcement of rules and directives by the airlines encourages this behavior. Such as, remain in your seat while the seat belt sign is on . . . unless you want to get out of your seat. Or, put your reading material down while the safety demo is underway . . . unless you would rather read.

[tezzer]

I have to challenge.;) We are not all rude to CC"

and in the first line I say that SOME slf are rude, not all !

[TightSlot]

Isn't there an old saw about "trapping more flies with honey than with vinegar"? In short, as dustybin mentions, most crew respond well to a polite and genuine request for assistance, whereas the reverse will achieve the reverse. Human nature determines that you will resolve the issue of the person who is pleasant with greater enthusiasm than will be shown to the unpleasant person.

Fortunately, the overwhelming majority of people are pleasant, or are at least unintentionally not so. The hard-core of those who behaviour is unacceptable, and who know it to be so, remains very small.

My personal bugbear? (I probably shouldn't say this...) When boarding and disembarking I stand at the door, make eye contact with each person, smile and Greet them appropriately: It always seems to me that a normal human response would be to acknowledge that greeting in some way. Completely ignoring me always strikes me as requiring an effort of will, greater than that required to acknowledge me. It is surprisingly common for people to blank me out, and in my experience, it tends to be a British thing, and more common amongst those with the background and education to know better.

[Avman]

Not looking for house points here Tightslot, but I also believe in basic courtesies. I always say "thank you" (and something like "well done" if the crew were pushed for time) as I leave the a/c. It costs nothing and I like to think that it contributes to making your day a pleasant one. Too many pax now are too busy switching their damn mobiles on as they leave the a/c!

On the other side of the coin though, I have noticed a growing tendency for the CC at the back (of short European flights) to stay chatting in the back and completely disregard disembarking pax. So, when I'm close to the rear I often make a point of going back to say my "thank you".

[Upgrade Please]

Couldn't agree more with you Tightslot - no matter how rubbish a day I've had, or how long the delay has been, I will ALWAYS make eye contact, smile and say hello to whoever is greeting me at the door. Apart from anything else, it makes ME feel better as a humble SLF - gets me in the right mood for the flight, moving on mentally from any issues before boarding.

As has been said in many places before, wx, tech, inbound delays, air traffic etc are not within the power of the CC to change. I guess there will always be those who just don't understand that you are not (completely) all knowing and powerful.....

[ladyflyby]

Ahh hand luggage, now that really grinds my gears. On a flight today from THR, there were so many people with bags that they could barely lift onto the aircraft. Leaving a bag in the middle of the aisle will not make me put it in the overhead locker!!! I just tell the passengers that if they can't lift it into the locker, then it will have to go into the hold. One lady complained that carrying her case had given her a bad shoulder! Obviously, if it is a handbag or duty free bag, I will do it but rollers and hold alls are an absolute no no. I also care for my own safety!

[Mr_Hippo]

Where does one get 'we' from?

[fernytickles]

I believe it has something to do with being the provider, or recipient of customer service. In the days before I flew for a living, it was not uncommon to be treated dismissively. I was the provider of customer service then.

A friend recently described how, when volunteering at their local club, they were treated differently if it was their turn to serve behind the club bar. Suddenly they are the provider of customer service, rather than the recipient. People who normally treated them as friends or acquaintences felt it was ok to bark at them and order them around.

Obviously this is not the case across the board, but people perceive themselves to be above, or below, another person in life's pecking order. Often, but not always, CC are perceived by people lacking the imagination to see them otherwise, as being below those people in the pecking order. To these people, this means they can be bullied, or barked at or ignored.

I think its something we are probably all guilty of to an extent. Its just that we notice it more in the environment in which we experience it, especially if we are the one(s) being barked at, bullied or ignored.

[AHA2218]

Must admit, i did lose my rag last year when i flew back form Lanzarote to Manchester.
Advised by the rep that the flight was on time back home, only to find out when i got to the airport it was delayed, by 6 hours !!!
I requested a day flight and it turned into a night flight, only to be woken up by a hostie trying to sell me alcohol for my barbacue...... did anyone else notice the weather in the uk last summer :mad::mad::mad:
And when they chief hostie tried to hand me a questionare, I advised her NOT to hand me one.
I didn't accept it on the grounds that it may have cost her her job :ugh::ugh::ugh:

[TSR2]

"I will do it but rollers and holdalls are an absolute no no."

It has not escaped my attention the number of CREW rollers in the bins these days, even on flights of less than 3 hours duration. Does sound rather like you are saying 'I have to lift mine up there so you can dam well lift your own' ........... and you know what, with the cabin baggage allowance increased to 10kg, I don't blame you one little bit.

[dustybin]

TSR2 i think you hit the nail on the head, yes we all have to carry our own trolleys so we probably make a point of not lifting anyone else's (u would not believe the stuff we need to have). I have had to take a lot out of mine due to not wanting to irritate an injury and i don't miss one bit of it, just realised i carry a lot of crap around unnecessarily. however i may not be saying that after an unscheduled night stop as took my night stop kit out:\ I was very touched the other day when the dispatcher carried my crew bag up the stairs for me, made my day! Just reiterates my point of being nice as i made him coffee when i had a free minute. I did fell a bit uncomfortable & embarrassed as i don't expect anyone to do that for me, apart from my other half:E

[Final 3 Greens]

So F3G why can't you lift your own back? Why should CC do it for you? Sorry, but to expect someone else to move your carry on is bang out of order.

Need some new reading specs Lexx? :}

BTW, I am a licensed aircraft commander and aware of the need to stow bags securely for take off and landing and that is what I do as soon as I have got my book or iPod out.

If you read my post again you will see that I was commenting on the professional manner in which Air Malta personnel defuse potential conflic with other pax who inadvertently break the SOPs. It was remiss of me not to mention that they also usually do this with a warm Mediterranean smile, something sometimes lacking on northern European carriers.

[Mr_Hippo]

Speaking as a passenger, CC are doing a great job - it's the standard of passengers that are flying today! Shorts, T-shirts and flip-flops may be OK at your holiday resort but please dress decently and politely when flying. Mrs Hippo and I normally fly BKK-MAN with a transfer in the Middle East somewhere. I don't think walking around DXB or AUH sits well with the Arabs. MAN at Christmas is cold and not really suitable for shorts or are you wearing shorts, etc. as a 'status symbol'? "I've just come back from somewhere hot!"
If you fly economy, you know your weight limit so do not whinge if you have to pay excess. Carry-on is your responsibility. Too heavy? Who packed it? You did! You got it onto the aircraft, you lift it up but before you do, remove the things you want in-flight. (Passengers with disabilities, please, ignore the last sentence.)
To those who fly first or business, I have yet to see any CC wearing a badge saying 'Maid', 'Butler' or 'Valet', why? It is because they are not and do not treat them as such.
To all CC, carry on!

[Little Blue]

If you had to do my job (Crewing) and you had some of the cabin crew speak to you in the way in which they speak to me, then you'd find it very hard not to be rude back. (I'm not, as we have to rise above it, plus I'm far more professional than that !!).
Luckily, such crew are a very small minority.
I have seen some shocking exchanges between crew and pax over the years and, more often than not, it's resulted from a crew member not treating the pax as a "customer".
A little can go a long way.

[EC-YKA]

Yes, I too say "hello" and keep eyecontact with the c/c that welcomes me on board and also I know most security presentations for the aircrafts types I mostly am a passenger on nearly by heart - I put my book aside and pay attention. As we fly a lot, in eco and c class (on longhaul), we came across a lot of "knocks" on our flights and yes, there is one on every flight ;-)
Maybe it's because I've worked on the ground at a large European airport for some years, my experience with difficult passengers gave me a different look on this specific "problem". During my four years at the airport I denied transportation, on the flights I was responsible for, to various passengers - but all for the same reason: unruly behaviour preboarding or even before check-in.
A businessman who gave an airline desk attendent a bashing that left me nearly speechless. Who, after me denying to give him the last available seat on this plane, promised me to have me "out of my job".
A family father who treated his wife and teenage daughter like Sh** while I was trying to allocate them and I decided to have his wife and daughter on the plane - but told him that he has to find another flight because I see him as a thread to onboard security and first hand a security thread to his family.
At least a dozen "boozed" passengers we left on the ground because we've seen them unfit to fly.
But last summer I had a reverse experience. Flying back from FRA to PMI on a charter flight we came about a cabin attendant who left us, and the people around us, stunned. We had a nice woman flying alone with her, very cute and well behaved, infant son in the row before us and one of those "knocks" in our same row on B. Like it should occur, the infant needed a change .... and while the mommy was getting together diaphers and everything needed, the "knock" allready alarmed said FA. As mummy was taking up her son to obviously head to the toilet, this FA approached her and told her in a very unappropiate tone and wording that she wasn't allowed to change her infant on the seat but had to go to the toilet. Mummy replied nicely that she was "en route" to the toilet and FA told her off quite "snobby".
I wore my pullover around my hip as I do when I expect colder weather where I'm going and it's a very comfy way to have it with me. When I went to the toilet and came back shortly before leaving cruising altitude, said lovely FA told me ... as experienced by mummy before: to put my pullover into the overhead locker. I replied that I eventually would put it back where I wore it before leaving it behind to go to the lavatory and got my private bashing from him. No, he wasn't the purser on this flight, but obviously treated his fellow crew members with the same "attitude". :D
Surely a guy with ambitions!
Have to add that he was really an exception, on all our flights we've never seen a c/c like this before ... just great professionals - and hopefully we won't meet him onboard again ;-)
"Thumbs up" for all the great people up there and for all us SLF: they're up there to get us back down safely ... all the service is just something to make us more comfortable onboard and choose this particular airline again, not their prime obligation. Let's just be nice up there ;-)

[Chica]

Recently had an exhausting 2 week business trip to South America. On the return leg, boarded the 747 at GRU, put on my wonderful BA pajamas, snuggled into 2A and went straight to sleep, only woken by CC on approach to LHR. On exiting the aircraft CC commented that I was the easiest passenger she's ever had to look after!:ok:

[nivsy]

Its the little things I notice nowadays......as mentioned earlier the whole airport experience is not what it used to be - and many pax are not as relaxed as they perhaps used to be when boarding an aircraft - perhaps some 4 hours or more after they have left their house or place of work or whatever. Its not an excuse for bad manners but it does contribute. Also a lot of flights now get "going" at ungodly times of the day. Is there a trend on when pax are a little more rude to CC? When I board an aircraft at 6.00am for a flight to be told of a delay of xx minutes due to ATC congestion or whatever I have learned to accept it - safety and how the air corridors are so busy these days. Others dont. Also quite frankly, at tha time of the day its not just the passengers who look washed out - dare I say many CC do as well!

Interesting point on helping with baggage and over head lockers. Again, now its the airlines that are encouraging (well low cost anyhow) pax not to check in baggage. Would have thought the least CC could do is help rather than PERHAPS standing at the back chin wagging. After all it will help meet the desire of getting on time departure?

Recent experiences have included push back without over head bins being secured and closed.....pax unbuckling to do it on behalf of CC - including myself...and as for weight.......as far as GB Airlines and Monarch are concerned at Gibraltar.....never fails to amaze me how CC mnage to get into the duty free shop and "fill their boots" with orders from the flight crew and other CC (?) and carry all that across the pan and up the stairs!


Nivsy

[rasobey]

Heh, Nivsy's post just reminded me of my experience on a flight to STN this weekend. We had lined up on the runway and the engines had just had t/o power applied, but the CC were still standing. The Capt gave about 5 seconds warning "CC seats for t/o" and it amused me to see one CC member only just sit down before the 738 started to accelerate.

[Avman]

Must have been some foreign cowboy outfit (:E) with poor SOPs then. Shouldn't normally commence t-off until CC confirm the cabin is secure.

[rasobey]

Not sure if I should name and shame, so I won't :) But I was quite shocked at CC for being up and about so late, considering we were delayed 20 minutes after pushback to clear what seemed to me to be an engine problem ( no.2 engine I think stopped and started again 10 mins later).

[captcat]

CC could do is help rather than PERHAPS standing at the back chin wagging
Problem is that if you injure yourself while stowing bags, no one is gonna pay your sick leave, at least where I work. Since stowing away bags is not on our job description, we are not insured against the injuries that could be caused by stowing away bags. Two years ago a collegue took pity on an old lady with a very heavy carry on baggage and stowed it for her. She injured herself while doing it. Result was that she lost allowances for almost 3 months and she wasn't granted sick leave for an injury while working (which means she got paid less on sick leave) because stowing away bags is not on our job description.

What we do is help someone stow their baggage but not do it for them. We'd be in bad shape at the end of the day if we had to lift all the incredibly heavy stuff people carry on board. Passengers still have the option of checking in their heavy luggage if they can't lift it. But if they cannot lift it, why should we do it?

[SXB]

It's not reasonable to expect cabin crew to stow everyones hand baggage. Ideally you should only take what you can safely lift above your head.

If each CC member lifts 10 bags weighing 9 kilos on each flight they will injure themselves. You may not think that 9 kilos is a lot, but lifting bags on an aircraft is not the same as doing it at home, you are in a confined space and you are lifting in way which is much likely to cause injury.

[MuttleyJ]

I'm a female who weighs 8stone. Why on earth should a 6foot muscle man assume I'm going to lift his bag above my head when I don't know what's in it or how heavy it is??? I am nice and polite to everyone but come on I'm not the incredible hulk!!

[Final 3 Greens]

I'm a female who weighs 8stone. Why on earth should a 6foot muscle man assume I'm going to lift his bag above my head when I don't know what's in it or how heavy it is??? I am nice and polite to everyone but come on I'm not the incredible hulk!!

In my experience, it is often female pax who expect their bags to be loaded for them, by stewards or male pax.

[Rush2112]

I'm always astonished that SIA stewardesses rush to help put stuff in overheads, often doing it themselves when the pax thinks they can keep it by their feet.

If you can't
(a) follow simple instructions, e.g. hand baggage should be placed under the seat in front or in the overhead lockers, or
(b) lift it yourself

then you have no business travelling on a plane.

Airlines should introduce an intelligence test, and if you don't get a high enough score you should be turfed off the plane.

I know that would put Ryanair out of business but that's too bad.

[Avman]

Airlines should introduce an intelligence test, and if you don't get a high enough score you should be turfed off the plane.

I know that would put Ryanair out of business but that's too bad.

:ok: Lol with that one Rush. :)

[MuttleyJ]

LOL Rush!!!!! :):)

[radeng]

It's a matter of using intelligence, surely? I saw a guy get on a BA flight in Nice. He had a small bag, obviously fairly light and one arm in a sling. Apparently the other arm had arthritis and couldn't be raised above midway......it took the CC about 5 milliseconds to appear and help.
The rich bitch with more one than bag of stuff was left to fend for herself - and she moaned about everything. Why did I get a meal with fruit? Because I had ordered a special meal;. Well, she wanted one. 'No madam, special meals have to be ordered 24 hours in advance'.
But what really seems to throw CC is when entering and they say 'hello sir, how are you' and you reply (perfectly honestly when you're going home) 'All the better for seeing you'.
I have had CC on BA that have recognised me from a previous flight, and before the door has shut, have come up and said "I've put some extra champagne on ice for you". Now that IS service!

[Rush2112]

I thank you!