Airworthy Avro Anson

[spectre150]

I was really hoping someone else would ask this question so I didnt have to look such an utter spotter. Ah well, armed with banter deflecting cloaking device, here goes:

I saw what looked like an Avro Anson fly jut south of Bicester yesterday afternoon at approx 1700 hrs, 300 ft agl-ish and heading west.

Can any of the 'avaition enthusiasts' (spotters :} ) among you tell me if there are indeed any airworthy Ansons (my aircraft recce isnt that bad that I cant tel the difference between the Anson and, say, a Dakota!).

I aint getting in no plane with no fool

[Sl4yer]

The Air Atlantique Classic Flight have one at Coventry. :)

[Tiger_mate]

..& Shuttleworth have an airworthy (blue) Avro Ninteen, which is a civvy Anson.
http://www.airshows.org.uk/2005/airshows/shuttleworthjune/photographs/avro19_1.jpg

[Hot Charlie]

BAE Systems base their Avro XIX/Anson at Shuttleworth.:)

[Tiger_mate]

Beat yer Charlie! :O

[Box Brownie]

It was the Air Atlantique Anson - been to Odiham.

[brakedwell]

Queen of the sky. Oh happy days.

[Avitor]

Talking of Grand Mothers and sucking eggs, they were used to train crew during WW2. Especially Nav's.

[Biggus]

They used Grand Mothers to train navs in WW2.......???!!!!!!!

[The AvgasDinosaur]

My grannie was ace with a Silva and O/S map.
Be lucky
David

[Papa Whisky Alpha]

WWII? They were used for AEO training in from Swanton Morley until the end of '57 and from Hullavington from January '58.

[Brian Abraham]

My first solo was in one. No really. Painted yellow, no fabric on fuslage, load the bomb bay in the wing roots with scrap iron for bombing practice, a thousand turns to wind the gear up/down, and had to be expert at short field to get airborne before the scrap yard fence. Great fun for a six year old - happy days too brakedwell.

[spectre150]

Thanks for the informative replies. I now also know that there is an aviation history and nostalgia forum - sorry pprune!

[chevvron]

Still in use at Bovingdon and Andover until about '67. Seen in the film 'Mosquito Squadron' filmed partly at Bovingdon in about '67; replaced by (of all things) Bassets!
If I ever find my 3822, it will show two flights from Bovingdon in Ansons, one being PH859 in about '65. Pilot's name was Colbourne; he had scarring on his face possibly due to a fire; his takeoff technique was 'must be going fast enough to fly now, gear up!'

[ancientaviator62]

My F3822 shows my first ever flight to have been in Avro Anson VV994 from RAF Usworth to RAF Worksop via Rufforth and return. I lived less than 1 mile from Usworth and it was a an aeroplane mad boy's dream. I flew so much as an air cadet I was banned by my CO from anymore flying. I carried on flying but did not get the flights recorded. Happy days !
Bill

[GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU]

My late Mum told me that, as a yet unborn child, I had several tens of hours on Ansons! Why can't I bloody remember it?

[Tom Everitt]

Just to confirm it was our Anson C/T.Mk.21, G-VROE/WD413, visiting Odiham for their 70th Anniversary celebration. Vampire G-HELV was also in attendance as were P-51s 'Janie' and 'Big Beautiful Doll'.

We believe VROE is one of only two Anson’s currently airworthy in the world, although there are a few flying restorations nearing fruition in Canada and New Zealand, both MK1's if I remember rightly.

Best wishes,

Tom
Classic Flight Ops

[Gainesy]

Ah, that explains the Merlins I heard the other day. Couldn't see 'em, must get the chainsaw to the trees out back.:E

[chevvron]

Thinking back, I seem to recollect at least one Bovingdon Anson (having been sold) being used to ferry supplies to Biafra where there was a civil war in progress; that must've been about '69.
Edited: I think my second Anson flight was in VL337.

[hallibagger]

Tom, Do you have any idea who might be making a Mk I airworthy in Canada?

We are restoring a Mk II to static display status for the RCAF Mem. Mus.

Canadian Warplane had a Mk V, CF-HOT, flying for many years on which I was crew chief and sometime co-pilot but I have not seen it flying lately. They also had another Mk V fairly well advanced but it was out West at another 'Wing' of the CWH org. I retired some 15 years ago and I am out of touch with them.

We are in touch with Robyn Reid in New Zealand who has a Mk I almost ready to fly and another Mk I which is being brought up to static display standard. He managed to gather up about nine boxed Cheetahs.

Our problem is, we have very few drawings and we are looking for more. These Mk IIs have been sitting outside for the last 50 - 60 years and the wood has disappeared. Some of the steel tubing is OK but mostly the bottom tubes are gone but leaving enough to be able to replicate them.

Maybe the Canadian fixing the Mk I to fly has some drawings!

Deryck

[brakedwell]

hallibagger, I used to built R/C flying models of aircraft I had flown. One was a 1/8th scale Anson Mk 19 using drawings from BAE Woodford. The father of one our Manchester cabin crew worked in the records office there. He printed out a set of very detailed drawings stored on old Avro microfilm. I suggest you contact them.

[PaperTiger]

Do you have any idea who might be making a Mk I airworthy in Canada?I believe it's Tom Coates in Saskatoon. A Mk.1 Annie was recently registered to him (C-GTCU) but the "serial" given was R3/LW/96801 which nobody seems to be able to trace. Imported from the UK according to the CCAR, although I assume it was a basket case and not an assembled airframe.

[tinpis]

There was /is ? an airworthy at Essendon Vic in 1986

[hallibagger]

Thanks, brakedwell, Paper Tiger and tinpis for those leads.

The last I heard BAE was declining to provide any drawings for liability reasons. Maybe if it is for static display only they might re-consider!?

I will give them a try.

The Tom Coates lead sounds encouraging.


Thanks guys.

Hallibagger

[brakedwell]

Why not tell them you are going to build a model Anson! This was the result of my set of drawings.


http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c32/sedgwickjames/Scale%20Model%20Aircraft/Mk19Ansonflying.jpg
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c32/sedgwickjames/Scale%20Model%20Aircraft/Mk19Anson16.jpg

[norman atkinson]

RAF 31 Squadron had 19's and 12's at Hendon.

Does anyone have a photo of one flying around the ski jump at Hamstead Heath?

[Brian Abraham]

hallibagger, you might try the Smithsonian Institute as well, bit of a long shot on them having plans being a Brit aircraft, but what they do have can be surprising. Extremely helpful, though it may cost. From experience just state in any request to them EXACTLY what it is you want. Turnaround time to a request can take up to a month if my experience is any guide.

[hallibagger]

Brakedwell - nice job with the Annie.

Reminds me of my RAF days in the 50's when we had an Oxbox and an Annie to haul wheels around for the Hunters which only had a life of about 5 landings. Anytime the last landing was away from base new wheels had to be delivered and the wheels changed. Got a few flights in that way.

[norman atkinson]

Ok, fellas but with a memory, the 19's had an an Air Pubs Numbers of
2525 and 2526 for the airframes and cheetahs.

RAF Hendon now the Museum claims that it has all the AP's/
It may help someone. Good Luck!

[Torres]

Near complete Anson at Roma airport in Australia:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v315/Woomera/Anson.jpg

[hallibagger]

OK, Torres that looks exactly like the one we are trying to restore to static display condition!

Here is an update to my search for drawings:

Tom Coates of Saskatoon, Canada, has indeed registered an Anson which he apparently obtained from Britain. I have been unable to get in touch with him but I am told that he has a hangar full of parts and it is unlikely to fly in the near future. We would still like to be able to talk to him as we may be able to use the same set of drawings, if we ever get them.

The New Zealand Aviation Museum has a set of drawings and I am in touch with Bill Reid who is getting a Mk I ready to fly. He has some 5,000 drawings but he had to sign a "No copy", "No loan", agreement in order to get them from the museum.

The RCAF Memorial Museum, our museum, is looking into our making a similar arrangement with the New Zealand Museum. The stumbling block is the cost to copy some 5,000 full sized drawings!

I did contact BAE Woodford and they have passed me down the chain to their Heritage department and they do indeed have a lot of Anson drawings but they are in poor shape and they have never been catalogued. They have agreed to take a look at the collection to see exactly what they have.

My thanks to evryone who helped out.:ok:

[The Flying Pram]

hallibagger, I'm sure I've seen some Anson drawings in my fathers original WW2 "Aeroplane Spotter" magazines. They would only be general outline drawings, not detailed ones. If likely to be of use I could scan them for Email.
Let me know.

[hallibagger]

Hey, Flying Pram,

Thanks, we do have a few rough outline drawings but not sufficient detail to allow for a Museum quality restoration. I doubt the detail that the Aeroplane Spotter went to would add to our knowledge unless it was a big detailed cutaway.

However, it does give me an idea that maybe Flight or Aeroplane might have done one of those cutaway drawings during the war years.

I too used to get the Aeroplane Spotter but when I left for Canada my mother took to opportunity to dispose of 'all that old muck'.

Hmm, I wonder how far back Aeroplane and Flight records go?

Thanks Flying Pram for your input.

Hallibagger

[brakedwell]

Halibagger, you can copy this if you like!!!! ;)
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c32/sedgwickjames/Mk19Anson8.jpg

[PaperTiger]

Umm, that's not a Mk 1. Back to the spotter books for you m'lad.

[brakedwell]

Well spotted, it's a Mk X1X.

[hallibagger]

Thanks Brakedwell, I will forward it to the shop maybe it will keep them interested until we can find some original Annie drawings.

Hallibagger

[The Flying Pram]

hallibagger, I've been up in the roof and found the relevant magazine. It is only a single page with a complete Anson in partial cut-away view. It's a Coastal Reconnaissance version with upper rear gun turret. The drawing is credited to a "J.H.Clark" and is (or was!) copyrighted to "The Aeroplane" which father says is the company behind the Aeroplane Spotter magazine.
I'll gladly Email it to you if you P.M. me with your details.
Regards.

[XH175]

Hi Hallibagger,

If it is the tube dimensions you need I have a copy of the repair manual which gives a table of tube lengths, diameter, gauge referenced to the frame drawing forthe three basic fuselage variants. The lengths are un- trimmed but in conjuction with a dimensioned frame drawing also in the manual it is possible to accurately position each tube joint.

Would this be of help?

Regards
Ross

[Davaar]

I do not know where it is now or how airworthy, but in the 1980s the Western Museum at Moose Jaw, SK, was rebuilding an Anson.

[PaperTiger]

Still there AFAIK (R9725). Static display only so I don't know how much internal restoration was done.

There is a great timeline website (http://gmam.ca/anson_project.htm) about Greenwood's restoration, with lots of detail shots, but I think that one is a Canadian-built MkII.

[TwoDeadDogs]

Hi all
Try the Irish Air Corps' Museum at Baldonnel,County Dublin,Ireland.They have Anson XIX "141" in static display order indoors and probably have plenty of tech docs for the type.They have at least two Cheetah cutaway engines on display.
regards
TDD:)

[WHBM]

My father (WW2 Halifax aircrew) described, very occasionally, how they looped the base Anson one day. All blamed on a mad captain who thought the idea up. Good preparation, they donned parachutes and had a prearranged story about how the controls jammed and they had to bale out in case it all went awry, then climbed above the clouds one day, but apparently it went over as sweet as anything. Engines never faltered.

There, you didn't know it was aerobatic did you ? Somehow they knew not to try it with a Halifax. Wonder what the CO would have said if he found out ?

[Prangster]

When August 1963. Where RAF Kinloss. Duty, first flight as an ATC cadet in what I think was a CC19. Mighty Cheetas reved up to max pooter power, and we amble skywards unstick is about 1/3 along runway followed by a big bang as port engine fails. Quick return to terra firma and first lesson of airmanship clocked. Always use all the runway or else. ACLO takes pity on me as 'Not good introduction to flying is it lad' Bundles me onto OCU Shackelton that then chucks starboard inner engine about 2 hours out into the big wet patch north of Scotland. 'Not you again says ACLO?' Sighing and having me forcibly tied into a Chipmunk whilst muttering 'These buggers never go wrong'......but that's another story:eek:

[hallibagger]

We have contacted all the museums in the Western part of Canada as that was where the bulk of the Ansons seemed to retire to. They were sold to the local farmers and generally they were pretty full of fuel, which we assume is why the farmers bought them, as several Ansons were sold to several of the purchasers

We did manage to get quite a few, full scale, sketches from the Western groups and we are working with them.

This particular Annie came from the Reynolds Museum at Wetwasakin, Alberta. We shipped them a Tutor and they sent us an Anson back on the same trailer.

[hallibagger]

Sandy, we would love to accept your offer of help but my message was returned as the e-mail address you gave me does not work:


----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
<[email protected]>
(reason: 550 5.1.1 User unknown)

----- Transcript of session follows -----
... while talking to [84.252.225.82]:
>>> DATA
<<< 550 5.1.1 User unknown
550 5.1.1 <[email protected]>... User unknown
<<< 503 5.5.2 Need Rcpt command.

I tried to contact you via the forum but you have selected that you do not want to accept e-mails.

Do you want to give me your current e-mail address?

Deryck

[hallibagger]

That certainly does look like a Mk II. Supposedly one of our guys went into Greenwood while on vacation and he made no mention of their Anson project. I suspect that when these ex-military types get together it is in a bar, not the workshop!

Thanks, I have sent a note to the shop drawing their attention to the detail that is available.

It appears that a useful tool to have in the shop would be a computer!! If only I could get someone to operate it.

[Evileyes]

Hallibagger,

You might want to give the Smithsonian Institute a try as they have an extensive collection of aircraft technical drawings:

http://www.nasm.si.edu/research/arch/collections.cfm

http://siris-thesauri.si.edu/ipac20/ipac.jsp?session=J19465P834051.220&profile=planes&uri=link=3100020~!28497~!3100001~!3100002&aspect=subtab13&menu=search&ri=3&source=~!sithesauri&term=Avro+652A+Anson+Mk+II&index=#focus

Good luck!

[hallibagger]

Thanks Evileyes,

Of course, the Anson MK II was also used by the USAAC as the Avro AT-20!

I have forwarded a request and, no doubt, in the fullness of time, I will receive a response.

Good suggestion!

[Sandy Hutton]

Hallibagger, check your pm's.. I forgot to change my e-mail on leaving the PFA:ugh:

[Exnomad]

I did some very cold night navigation exercises in Mk 19s from Bishops Court in 1952 (No 12 course), Dress was pajamas under uniform, followed by two layers of flying suits.

[brakedwell]

After a two year tour in Bahrain I joined Coastal Command Communications Flight at Bovingdon, so I felt the cold. During the winter I used to sit on my feet to keep them warm on our flights to Kinloss, Turnhouse, Aldergrove and Ballykelly.
By good fortune my one and only engine failure occured in mid summer, between the Isle of Man and Liverpool!

[hallibagger]

OK, Just to close this off:

I eventually contacted the Avro Heritage Centre through BAE Woodford and they have now catalogued their Avro Anson, fuselage, drawings and we are in the process of trying to determine exactly which drawings we need and how to economically copy them. Right now it looks like they can scan about 30 drawings onto a disk.

Thanks Guys, we really appreciate all your help in running these down.:ok:

[merv32249213]

http://s267.photobucket.com/albums/ii281/merv32249213/?action=view&current=PH843anson.jpg

I often wonder where our two Station Flight Ansons PH843 and TX196 at RAF Amman in the 1950s ended up

[PaperTiger]

I often wonder where our two Station Flight Ansons PH843 and TX196 at RAF Amman in the 1950s ended up.
Neither seems to have survived according to this:
http://www.oldprops.ukhome.net/Anson%20Census.htm although there's a remote chance they could be among the unidentified airframes.

[Kieron Kirk]

Try the link below, pictures and info on PH843.

TX196 last with Wittering Station Flight.
Sold as scrap 7th January 1969.


http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=anson+PH843&btnG=Google+Search&meta=

[John Hill]

I remember Southern Scenic Airlines of Queenstown, New Zealand, operated an Anson in the early 50's until they replaced it with a Dominie!

[aviate1138]

chevvron said in part...

"Thinking back, I seem to recollect at least one Bovingdon Anson (having been sold) being used to ferry supplies to Biafra where there was a civil war in progress; that must've been about '69."

Aviate shudders recalling the time when we went to Bovingdon in 1969/70, having been working on a movie called "Mosquito Squadron" a few weeks previously and carved up 4 lovely Ansons and removed the 450 HP Cheetah engines to use as wind machines! The other thing I remember is the shiny stainless steel cladding on a Bovingdon hangar which was re-clad not long before the airfield was abandoned!

Must have cost a fortune. :rolleyes: