Closing the door?

[SeenItAll]

Yesterday was flying Air France from Geneva to Washington, DC via CDG. Flight from Geneva was delayed due to bad weather in Paris. It arrived about an hour late for a connection that was scheduled for 1:30. Because were arrived at Terminal 2F and needed to transfer to a satellite off of Terminal 2E, things looked grim. But lo and behold, Air France knew about our plight and had an escort waiting on the skybridge to shepherd us 8 transferees from the Geneva flight to the DC flight.
We were then shuttled on a minibus through passport control and out to the Terminal 2E satellite where we rushed up to the gate within 5 minutes of the scheduled departure time. The 777 was still sitting right at the gate with the airstairs still attached, but the agent tells us that they have closed the flight (nous avons terminée le vol) and we must be rebooked.
Rebooking desk is right next to the gate so as we waited to be rebooked, we watched the flight remain exactly in place for another 45 minutes when finally the airstair was pulled away from the cabine door and the plane was pushed back.
So my question is this. Given that Air France knew we were coming and had provided an escort, why were we not permitted to board? Is there anything magical about the fact that once the door is closed, it is not permitted to be reopened? Or, as one of us surmised, was it just that the flight had been overbooked or had a long standby list, so the gate agent made his life easier by not needing to seeking volunteers to be "bumped" or having to pay denied boarding compensation -- and instead giving away our seats -- but then not telling us this simple truth and instead saying that since the door was closed, there was no way in which it could be reopened?
So what is the verdict. Can closed doors be reopened? Or was this story just being used as an excuse to turf us?
BTW, our journey ended up taking us an extra 10 hours because of Air France's decision. Highly disinclined to choose future flights requiring a CDG transfer.

[DrKev]

...our journey ended up taking us an extra 10 hours because of Air France's decision. Highly disinclined to choose future flights requiring a CDG transfer.


I disagree. Your journey took an extra 10 hours because of a) a weather induced delay and b) you didn't leave enough time between your connections. You arrived one hour late and missed it? One hour is rarely enough for comfort almost anywhere in the world, even if you did arrive on time. I always leave a minimum of two hours - I'd rather sit somewhere with a newspaper waiting for the flight I'm supposed to be on than rushing for that same flight or having to standby for another.

Besides, it's not simply a case of physically opening or closing the door. You have to be added to the passenger manifests and luggage accounted for etc, especially with security rules flying into the US nowadays. If you got there a little too late, the crew on the flight may have decided to go with waiting standby pax or perhaps someone else somewhere else didn't know the flight was already full and rushed you guys over without realising. Why the aircraft stood there for another 45 mins is neither here or there and was most probably out of their control (ground control/equipment issues). It sounds like the people dealing with that flight had filled it or had already signed off their passenger lists and that was the end of that.

And hey, somebody did actually TRY to get you there. If that weather delay was a few minutes shorter maybe you would have made the flight and then you would have praised them to high heaven. As it was the weather didn't work out and now you blame them and say you won't pass through CDG again?

I don't think you're being entirely fair.

[SeenItAll]

I do understand the vargaries of weather and the need to draw a bright line at some point in the process. My main purpose with this post was to inquire about how airline decision making is coordinated. Some part of the airline seemed to be trying to ensure our connection, while another part of the airline seemed to be oblivious to this. Furthermore the captain of our later flight made an announcement that they were delaying its departure to await connecting passengers -- which they did by close to an hour.

I am not trying to be obtuse, but ATC or catering seem like improbable (but not impossible) reasons because (a) the plane did not push back and leave and (b) we were expected on the flight.

I agree that a 1:30 hour connection is tight at CDG. I would have preferred more time, but there was no earlier arriving flight (BTW, I've seen AF schedule 45 minute connections -- which is a joke even with no delays). Please note that I said this experience disinclined me to use CDG as a connecting airport. I am not so naive as to have decided based on this single incident that I should never chance it again. I recognize that all flying is a crapshoot and that good or bad experiences may occur at any time.

But I stand on my ground that connections at CDG are byzantine and lengthy (although many people believe they are superior to LHR). Explain to me why passengers need to go through passport control entering CDG from GVA. AF leaves from the French side of Cointrin -- so it is already a domestic flight.

[Rainboe]

Well, you might not agree with it, but that's how it is. This delaying flights to accommodate late passengers just delays everybody and knocks your schedules and delay statistics sideways- I would only do it if there was a very significant number involved. You imagine one airline and one authority controlling everything. In reality Passenger Services did their best to get you to the lounge, other departments like Space Control or Flight Ops ultimately declined boarding for the stated reasons. You had an unreal connection due to delay and you were left behind rather than potentially cause further delay. that's about it- the whole industry is like that. Annoying when you are the one left behind, annoying when you are already delayed and you are delayed further to wait for late passengers.

[wiggy]

Ah the Curse of the modern aviation world, the unrealistic connection..I don't think you can blame AF or CDG, IMHO I wouldn't plan on making a 1 hour 30 connection at any airport anywhere in the World.

As for the flight then holding at the gate - I think Rainboe has given you a pretty good explanation, I'll only add that the US authorities require the passenger details to be finalised and passed to them before departure, so thats' perhaps another reason for the flight being "sealed".

[PAXboy]

An unfortunate occurrence that happens every day at small airports and hourly at big ones.

As to the a/c sitting at the gate with doors closed and yet no pushing back: you may be aware the departure time on your ticket and printed in the schedule is always advanced from the actual schedule. This is to try and get pax to the gate in good time. So they might have just been lucky with getting everyone in and doors closed bang on time - only to find that some other tiny event at CDG meant that they could not start.

Had they have started and pushed you would not have felt so irritated, it is sitting and staring at 'your' plane for 40 minutes that is frustrating and I have had it happen to me. With the combination of no earlier departure available from GVA and bad weather and a txfer at CDG, your particular Swiss Cheese lined up. (sorry, could not resist :E).

Perhaps the most frustrating is that you will never know what it was, as Rainbow says, there is no longer a single person coordinating all of the activities. As I understand it, each group (Check-in, baggage etc.) reports to the Dispatcher when they have done their bit. The Dispatcher then hands the flight to the Captain who waits for all the other groups (Tug, ATC etc.) to report in and when all of those boxes are ticked the a/c moves. The inter-linked dependencies are complex but, when flying to the US of A, then there is a significant additional level of complexity that must be complied with or the flight will be turned away from US airspace.

I understand that weather delays a significant number of flights in the USA and some of your airports have complex terminal structures - the advantage is that passport control is not involved (for you) and that the restrictions on flights entering US airspace do not apply. I do not mean to be critical of the USA, just considering the various components under discussion.

[SeenItAll]

I appreciate all the replies and enlightenment (especially the often used Swiss cheese analogy). I do understand that more than occasionally, s___ happens. Indeed, given the complexity of orchestrating all of the different moving pieces composing modern passenger aviation, it is amazing that it works as well as it does. But all that said, from a passenger point of view, anything that can be developed to streamline connections and/or reduce uncertainty as to their timing will be warmly welcomed.

[lexxity]

As for the flight then holding at the gate - I think Rainboe has given you a pretty good explanation, I'll only add that the US authorities require the passenger details to be finalised and passed to them before departure, so thats' perhaps another reason for the flight being "sealed".

APIS (that's your passport details and 1st nights accommodation details) are supposed to be sent to the US 30 minutes before the flight departs. I am assuming that your passport details were not collected at your point of origin. If this is the case that is why you were most probably denied boarding. It takes time to add your passport details, which would have further delayed the flight because the information would still need to be sent. Assuming that this is the case the gate agent would have made the decision to get the APIS away and go without you. Once the APIS is sent it cannot be added to.

[Rainboe]

You're right- that is probably mostly what got them- the APIS. A US Homeland Security TSA regulation and requirement! They were doomed long before they even got to the gate.