M reg in operation

[cambioso]

Have any of you Manx reg aircraft operators had any problems with Aviation Authorities, or Customs officials whilst operating foreign?
Have you had any other probs with overflights, permissions, visas etc?
All I've heard so far is (very) positive vibes about registering and operating on the M.
Am very seriously considering putting our Jet on their reg.
Many thanks,
Jez.

[JB007]

http://www.gov.im/dti/Aircraft/

[cambioso]

Thanks very much 007. But I was really asking if operators of "M" aircraft are experiencing any problems with "Officials" in other far off countries that don't recognise the register. I know they SHOULD but we are all aware of the problems some people are experiencing with (say) the "N" reg in parts of Europe.....

[Fossy]

I'm not sure if I understand your questions. What has a visa to do with the reg of the aircraft. The visa is for an individual person and I never heard that you could be a citizen of the Isle of Man. Also for the other questions, as long as the documents are available and valid, why should there be any problem? Anyway may be you could answer my question. What will be the benefit to register it with the Isle of Man instead VP-B, VP-C or P4?

[G-SPOTs Lost]

Jezza,

Been on it for three months. Biggest problem is worrying where all the red tape has gone. Same day validations for crew and once you get your JAR 145 organisation on board you can realistically use approved FAA A & P guys when downroute which is a distinct advantage.

I know what you are getting at with the specifics of the question however being anonymous can only be a very good thing, the shipping register has been phenomenally succesful and Mr BJ only wishes to emulate how well regarded the manx shipping register is on the aircraft side. And so far he's doing a great job. I've said it before when people catch on it will ring the death bell for VP in the Eastern Hemisphere

Apart from the ferry we have been operating in Europe so cant comment on overflights etc, the biggest niggle is trying to explain to a Seville controller where the Isle of Man is :ugh:

Oh and people always seem to want to say your call sign as opposed to spelling it (apart from the UK that is - bloody English ATC ;) )

So pick a groovy callsign and come on in!

Just seen a 900EX at Bournemouth M-SAIR, were you not planning on upgrading at some point? (We know each other you did some f/lance for me to Greece with MW from Gamston remember? we last spoke at CSE)

Any way PM me if you want to chat
Cheers

Edited to say don't forget 0 rate corporation tax and 0% IPT on aircraft registered in the IOM - a considerable saving!

[themoonsaballoon]

G-SPOTS lost,
M-SAIR is a Falcon 900B not EX (S/N 141)
sorry for being petty couldnt resist!
TMAB!

[abovetheclouds]

will the Isle of Man at some point be able to accommodate AOC issue or will the M-reg be able to be added to the U.K CAA AOC

[themoonsaballoon]

M-Reg will not be added to the U.K register as they would have to comply with EASA regulation and they do not, they validate A & P licenses and FAA pilots, there is no provision for this under JAR OPS (EASA OPS) or Part M et al.
At present there is no plans for commercial operations but as with all things such as this if the demand and business case is made then perhaps, Bermuda took a long time to allow AOC operations but it happened. Most people are using M-reg I suspect to avoid certain taxes and regulation (PART M subpart G is mandatory to all EASA Aircraft from sept 2008 in any category of operation) IMO,
TMAB

[abovetheclouds]

I would have thought that an AOC based in Isle of Man would also attract certain tax advantages, I suppose this is something that the U.K CAA would not be looking forward too, if or hopefully when this happens it will more than likely be flooded by U.K operators trying to save money

[ACX]

I believe that the IOM is outside of the EU, which is why it is outside of EASA controls. In addition as an AOC operator you would have no rights to flights into and out of the EU because of this.

ACX

[abovetheclouds]

Sorry if a little away from the subject
Does this rule not effect Switzerland as they are outside of the EU but still operate under JAROPS

Rgds
ATC

[AlphaWhiskyRomeo]

Swiss registered aircraft can be affected by their registration.

I know of commercial flights from the EU to Russia that they either didn't get traffic rights to operate or had to stop in Switzerland on the way.

[Doodlebug]

Hi AWR, please check PM, thanks

[fullyspooled]

We currently operate N reg in Europe without any problems, but are considering a change to either vp-c, vp-b or m for new aircraft on order - simply due to facilitate landing at LCY.

Would appreciate comments from those who might be able to advise pros/cons of each register.

Thanks in anticipation.

PS. Yes the type is being approved for LCY by manufacturer, and yes we are only private ops.

[JB007]

Fullyspooled

M reg is incredibly successful, the original forecast was for 12 aircraft in the first year - by the end of the calendar year, the register will have potentially 32 aircraft! And with buisness jet orders solid for 6 years, solid growth is inevitable. Contact details are in my post above! DCA is a very nice chap!

The requests for public transport aircraft is a common one but the UK would have to agree to it. Also IOM is not a member of the European Union so traffic rights are an issue. Don't think it'll happen!

[G-SPOTs Lost]

TMAB

Is that the truckers new steed? If so and you are in any way connected please PM me.

[themoonsaballoon]

G-SPOTSLost,
Sorry !
Not connected!
TMAB

[Capot]

Before anyone gets too excited, as I did, about the possibilities of evading EASA regs, thus offering cheaper charters etc etc......

Extract from The Air Navigation (Isle of Man) Order 2007

Prohibition of use for public transport or aerial work

5. Save in the case of a transfer of functions under Article 83 (bis) of the Chicago Convention, an aircraft registered in the Isle of Man shall not fly on any flight for the purpose of public transport or aerial work.Business jets operators would need to check how they use their aircraft, and who gets a ride in them, very carefully indeed.....it's possible that giving someone a ride turns a flight into public transport and/or aerial work. M reg aircraft would probably be a target for checking up on this, in any EASA state.

And then there's

6.—(1) Subject to paragraph (2), an aircraft shall not fly unless there is in force in respect thereof a certificate of airworthiness duly issued or rendered valid under the law of the country in which the aircraft is registered or the State of the operator, and any conditions subject to which the certificate was issued or rendered valid are complied with.
(2) The foregoing prohibition shall not apply to flights, beginning and ending in the Isle of Man without passing over any other country, of— etc etc, gliders, balloons, permit to fly and so on

I am missing something here. What's the point of an IoM registration?

[JB007]

Capot
Tax

As G-SPOT wrote 0 rate corporation tax and 0% IPT on aircraft registered in the IOM - a considerable saving!

[G-SPOTs Lost]

Applications for RVSM & MNPS - 1 week (Application to approval letter on board)

Initial Registration and C of A issue including surveyor in the USA £10k TOTAL!

Aircrew Validations - Same day BY FAX! / fedex'd the following day. FAA & JAA accepted

Downroute maintenance - allowed by A & P's after validation and checking.

DCA - approachable and double helpful (I have BJ's mobile number!)
- try ringing the Belgrano for some help in a hurry.

As well as the financial benefits, there is a certain amount of anonimity about not having you details on G-INFO.....

There is provision within the IOM ANO for some sort of subpart K, subject to a trial period and close supervision. But public transport is a no go. Thank god!