QF A380 Maintenance thread (merged)

[Inthemarket]

Word from JHAS engineers as of yestreday,in a newsletter update to them, stating that JHAS has been selected to proceed to the next stage of the process for determining the A380 Line and Base Maint services provider for Qantas.

[Romulus]

Word from JHAS engineers as of yestreday,in a newsletter update to them, stating that JHAS has been selected to proceed to the next stage of the process for determining the A380 Line and Base Maint services provider for Qantas.

Correct.

We're in there with a chance, Qantas have yet to actually outsource, we have merely made the shortlist.

[blackhander]

Hiring Romulus?

[chockchucker]

Don't pitch your tent quite yet Blackhander. As Romulus correctly points out, QF is yet to outsource on such a grand scale, and QF Engineering are by no means out of the hunt. Paricularly as far as Line Maintenance goes. The A380 payment has recently been agreed upon by the ALAEA and QF management. Included in the agreement are: A380 specific rostering,Training bond, EASA part 66 conversion payment, and a selection process and expression of interest guidelines (whatever that means?).


I don't think that QF would go to all that trouble if Engineering didn't have a good shot. Heavy Maintenance is another issue altogether but, my money would be on Qantas to end up handling Line Maintenance of both the A380 and the 787 in-house.:ok:


All those of you who think I'm sadly mistaken, I await your reasoning and insights that follow.

[Romulus]

Don't pitch your tent quite yet Blackhander. As Romulus correctly points out, QF is yet to outsource on such a grand scale, and QF Engineering are by no means out of the hunt. Paricularly as far as Line Maintenance goes. The A380 payment has recently been agreed upon by the ALAEA and QF management. Included in the agreement are: A380 specific rostering,Training bond, EASA part 66 conversion payment, and a selection process and expression of interest guidelines (whatever that means?).


I don't think that QF would go to all that trouble if Engineering didn't have a good shot. Heavy Maintenance is another issue altogether but, my money would be on Qantas to end up handling Line Maintenance of both the A380 and the 787 in-house.:ok:


All those of you who think I'm sadly mistaken, I await your reasoning and insights that follow.

I actually think you're correct, ACS are by far the strongest contender of the two of us and we'll have to make an exceptionally strong case to beat them.

But that's our job, if we don't win we'll push QF Eng as hard as we can.

[Short_Circuit]

QF has reached agreement with ALAEA over A380 payments etc because they do not intend to win the contract, my opinion, hope I am wrong.:sad:

[The Mr Fixit]

QF engineering NOT handling the A380

(Big Whistle) :eek:

Now thats a call, the guys in ACS would put a cap in somebody's @$$ if QF don't choose them. :E

and the deal would stink of nepotism :mad:

[Inthemarket]

Why would QF go to "all that trouble" negotiating with the ALAEA over the A380 only to consider outsourcing the maintenance of it???
One would think it would be more logical for QF management to use the outsourcing call as leverage in negotiations with the ALAEA.
I tend to agree with short circuit, that QF management have no intention of keeping the maintenance in house at QF!

[domo]

qantas engineering is worth x dollars, if they give the a380 away it reduces what it is worth I dont see that happining, I think john holland is there to push qantas engineering people to easy back on conditions to win this important contract

qantas flag ship maintained by ansett

[Sunfish]

(Rant Mode On)

I'll say it again. Outsourcing is only a business option when you have a multiplicity of suppliers to choose from. If there are just two or three then getting tenders is like dancing with your sister - there is nothing sexy going on.

On the other hand, photocopiers, air conditioners and other stuff where there is large, competitive free market then go right ahead and outsource because under these circumstances it makes good business sense.

Look at Linfox and the other big logistics players. They go to the tyre companies and say "You have 24 hour access to our depots, you supply, fit, repair tyres to the following operational rules and you quote us a fixed cost per kilometer per wheel billed monthly. They do the same with maintenance and even the supply of vehicles themselves. They can do this because there are any number of people with the necessary resources who can supply tyres and fix trucks.

Now ask your self what people and resources are available to maintain aircraft? What is that market like? Are there literally tens of thousands of players eagerly waiting to overhaul your 787 or 380? Nope. Can you simply call any number of firms when you need an engine module change at 2.00AM, just like you can call a plumber? Nope.

But the real issue is not the actual cost of the spanner wielder. When you simply look at that your own employees are going to look more expensive, because you are paying for the 30% or more "dead" (unproductive in a strict time and motion sense) time, that any time and motion consultant will demonstrate. In outsourcing you are paying for productive time only.

Or so you think, and thus outsourcing now looks 20% cheaper to you.

Then of course there is the capital cost of the necessary servicing equipment and spares - which in my day was estimated at at least 10% of the fleet cost. With outsourcing you don't have to pay for that either.

My, doesn't outsourcing look attractive now? We put in place guaranteed service levels with penalty clauses for non compliance and in turn accept that "variations" (such as AD's) to the work in excess of what we have contracted for will be paid at higher labor rates. Thats only fair. Sure, there are unresolved issues about how we are going to re-tender the work five years from now, but by that time I will have departed, clutching nice big bonuses from the last five years.

Still looks rosy don't it?

But it really isn't.

The first fly in the ointment is the little matter of transaction costs. The legal negotiation of the legal agreements surrounding such a deal are not cheap, and they are going to absorb an inordinate amount of corporate management time as well.

Then there are transition arrangements. That costs heaps of money as well. For example, who is going to own the servicing infrastructure? Qantas? The outsourcer? Who pays for its maintenance and repair? What happens to the equipment if you change suppliers? Who pays for training and insurance? Who pays for spares? Who owns the spares? Who leases what to whom and where? Yet more legal agreements to be negotiated.

Even if you get the complete turnkey solution, you are paying for the transaction costs in setting up the complete deal even if the it is all included in the simple "hourly rate".

And don't forget the little matter of the outsourcers profit as well.

But the really big festering blowfly in the ointment is that a good outsourcer will do their level best to get complete and total control of your technical agenda. I've done it, McDonnell Douglas tried to do it with the F18 (as Beazley correctly alluded to in Parliament on his retirement, but I'm not going into details).

By "getting control of your technical agenda", I mean actively doing your best to ensure there is no one left in your customers organisation that is capable of arguing with what you say about technical matters. You do this by hiring over their best staff and encouraging your customer to fire the rest.

We did exactly that to a big organisation when we took over its IT Department. The deal was the brainchild of the head bean counter (or so he thought :} ). Not long after we took over, we had one or two complaints, so we went to said Bean Counter and explained that his wonderful deal was being "sabotaged" by certain malcontents. It didn't take much character assassination on our part to have them fired, and it became standard practice as we took over their subsidiaries IT Departments for us to trawl through their staff and maybe hire one or two and then the rest got fired. After all, for the Bean Counter to receive his annual bonus (many $100,000's) the deal had to be seen as a success.

It's an old trick, if someone complains about your performance, make the complainers go away! Thats what will happen in Qantas if they ever identify who took photos of those high tech staple repairs.

That way there was nobody in our customers organisation that could talk knowledgeably about our service levels or the expense of the technical solutions and technology strategies we proposed - they were all accepted, at great cost (and profit to us) by the organisation. We even took on the onerous task of providing the required Board level reports on our performance! Guess what they always said?


So at about three and a half years into a Five year contract, the Board of our Customer woke up one day and started to think about contract renewal - and discovered they had nobody left in their organisation to advise them. We had sucked all the IT technical competence out of their company.

Furthermore, they could see their IT costs going up instead of coming down and we had also made a myriad of small technical decisions that had locked them into dealing with us (for example locking them into Digital Equipment Company VAX computers and refusing to use Unix and IBM PC's).

They then spent millions on consultants to look at themselves, and us, and our relationship. It was finally deemed to be unhealthy, because they simply didn't know what they didn't know anymore, we had seen to that.

So they hired a Chief Information officer to rebuild their IT competence. We had her fired in Six months. They tried again, and this time they realised their plight. IT was central to their business strategy, but it was out of their control. We kept it that way till the end of the contract then negotiated a "surrender" deal and allowed them to slowly get back control over their IT systems and equipment, gracefully making more money for us, then we sold the business to a bigger fish and moved on.

So thats whats in store for you Qantas if you outsource maintenance and overhaul. It's all "flowers and chocolates" at the start, but five years on you will be in the "Divorce Court" with mounting maintenance and overhaul costs, depressed performance and service levels and now where to go but bring most of it in house again.

To put it in simple terms, the transaction costs and increased risk will outweigh the savings very quickly unless there is a vibrant and highly competitive free market for what you want to outsource.

Good luck with that.

(Rant Mode off)

[rudderless1]

With that rant Sunfish, not the first time you have mentioned it on PPRUNE. I am not sure whether to castigate you for being a typical beancounting, self serving, manipulating ars.hole or whether to congratulate you for being honest.
A fine example of truly typical leadership situation these days where nothing is about good management but all about self serving manipulation at the expense of companies and their employees and in the long term Australia and its society.
Sunfish, I hope your ethics have improved somewhat since. Sadly this style of white collar crime is admired rather than admonished. To many see this selfish greedy and destructive practice as acceptable.
David Cox, the man responsible for engineering and its destruction along with others sees himself worth every cent of his 27% payrise to $1.89mil plus 250 000 Qf shares. At equating to a 38hr week thats around $5000/hr base pay add the bonus for stuffing engineering brings it upto around $11000/hr.
To give 1500 engineers 3% is painful to him
Is engineering growing and thriving,strong and robust. What has he done to deserve this? His staff are performing he is not.
The A380 tender project is another act of terrorism against its own employees.
Peter Gregg who sits on both Qf and John Hollands boards, the two contenders for the A380 maintenance, is this just when tendering for the same project?:ouch:

[The Mr Fixit]

Two villains of the same ilk no doubt :eek:

Gregg if indeed sitting on both boards definitely has a conflict of interests perhaps this should be made public, I wonder if Purple P has the balls. :E

But can I add Rudd,

COX GOT A 48% PAYRISE FROM 1.2 MILLION TO 1.9 MILLION :mad:

IN ALL HONESTLY IT'S AN ABSOLUTE DISGRACE when he contends his staff are GREEDY for requesting 5% :yuk:

[Jabawocky]

YOU ARE F:mad: kidding me!

Is this the same wally who was stuttering all over the TV about High Quality Stapling of EEL's???????

Maybe (a long shot) GD is entitled to such pay (yes hold back on that)......but not the head spanner man.

What a joke!:ugh:

J:*

[Launch_code_Harry]

Maybe (a long shot) GD is entitled to such pay
Have you ever heard of the Stockholm Syndrome? I guess modern management speak would call it "managing expectations".

[1746]

May there is only one other contender at the moment but the following was noticed in Flight Inernational......
Macquarie to buy Goodrich's airframe maintenance business
By Nicholas Ionides
Australia’s Macquarie Bank has agreed to buy US company Goodrich’s airframe heavy maintenance business.
Goodrich says in a statement that it has entered into a definitive agreement to sell the business, Goodrich Aviation Technical Services, to Macquarie.
Financial terms of the deal are not being disclosed. Goodrich says it expects the sale to close in the fourth quarter of this year.
Goodrich says Aviation Technical Services has more than 1,200 employees at a 950,000ft facility in Everett, Washington.
Services include airframe heavy maintenance, aircraft modifications and painting, passenger-to-freighter conversions, engineering and certification, and component repair and overhaul.
:hmm::hmm::hmm:

[Bolty McBolt]

Romulus said..
Correct.
We're in there with a chance, Qantas have yet to actually outsource, we have merely made the shortlist.
Romulus
You are welcome to the A380. DC and MH have both been trashing their staff to the point where many in base ACS are over their threats and no longer interested in their new machine and have no interest "the light house new way of doing business".
I would suggest you are only still in the tender process to keep the cost down as someone else sugested PG is a member of both boards. I am sure it would not have taken much more than a phone call, and whadya know JHAS is back in the game.
I hope ACS call your bluff make the price so high you get the contract.
You can then compete for the remaining engineers with Jet * Int to fill your hangar.
I see your company little more than a pawn to earn someone a bonus :yuk:
Would you still take the A380 contract if it effected your ability to look after Tiger?

[Romulus]

(Rant Mode On)

Excellent work.

Now, you've identified the problems with outsourcing if it's done poorly, what are the current practices in the field to ensure exactly this doesn't happen?

And believe me, we've covered all the problems you identify, they're the usual ones people who want to resist any change outline. I'll be interested to see if you got beyond the "let's rip teh client off' stage.

Plus I'd be interested to know if you worked for Andersen Consulting or EDS....

[Romulus]

You are welcome to the A380.

Thanks, can you get me a contract on teh terms we have proposed?


DC and MH have both been trashing their staff to the point where many in base ACS are over their threats and no longer interested in their new machine and have no interest "the light house new way of doing business".


Can't comment on DC and I have no idea who MH is, nor do I know what "the lighthouse new way" of doing things is.

But I do know one thing - I'll never trash our staff, barring some major turnaround from their current attitude they're way ahead of the QF team on the flexibility curve.


I would suggest you are only still in the tender process to keep the cost down


Possibly, but if you're going to believe that then the bigger threat would be SIAEC given their access to the type and all.....

Which raises the interesting point of why you aren't happy that the only competitor is Australian instead of an OS company.

And even if you're right then sooner or later they have to give us something to keep us in the game, a threat is only useful if there's the belief it will be exercised.



as someone else sugested PG is a member of both boards.


He is and we have never met with him to my knowledge. He is certainly aware of our existence, beyond that we don't exactly have a direct line to the boardroom of a multibillion dollar company.

And if I did do you think we'd be talking about a small fleet of aircraft?


I am sure it would not have taken much more than a phone call, and whadya know JHAS is back in the game.


Well may you be sure of that, equally I'm sure the effort the team put in to put a really new way of doing business together means we're there to provide options.



I hope ACS call your bluff make the price so high you get the contract.


So do I!


You can then compete for the remaining engineers with Jet * Int to fill your hangar.


Interesting questions come out of that line of thinking.


I see your company little more than a pawn to earn someone a bonus :yuk:


I like being a pawn, nobody really bothers you until you reach the other end of the board and all of a sudden you're the most powerful piece on the board. We just have to make sure we get there.

Judging from your reaction we have a few people worried already.

Good.


Would you still take the A380 contract if it effected your ability to look after Tiger?


No.

But it won't. We've already declined several options to bid for work that would put us in that situation.

Have a nice day.

[No SAR No Details]

Romulus,
Would you still treat your employees like endentured slave labour if you won the 380 contract?

[primethius]

The question begs...Why would any sane Aircraft passenger service provider use the most expensive ground handler on the planet as their service of choice???
The 380 must logically be up for grabs despite the courses and the agreed payments.
I'm sure the newly trained will jump ship at the right price.
This maybe the beginning of the end of the QF line maintenance monopoly.
No doubt the New ALAEA saw this coming, we hope???

[Romulus]

Romulus,
Would you still treat your employees like endentured slave labour if you won the 380 contract?

Nice question.

Have you stopped molesting little kids recently?

:)

[The Mr Fixit]

Rom, most know your cred is good don't blow it by lowering yourself to trolling

Primate !!!!!! you're back betcha your knuckles are sore from all the chestbeating and knuckledragging oh my mistake you're a globe fairy

Quite simply if Qf are STUPID enough to screw their own over this aircraft god help them the new breed of LAME will make them sorry

Rom, a serious question, do you think it's a conflict of interest for Gregg to be in the position on both boards ?

I mean FFS it doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out whats going on.

[satos]

Hey Romulus,I know of countless of engineers including myself that have applied for Lame/Ame Mechanical positions with your company at tullamarine but have never received a reply regarding their application.Is it too hard for you to send an email or make a phone call to let us know what is going on.Yet I see you are still advertising flat out in the 'Australian' newspaper every week.

[No SAR No Details]

Romulus
A question you didn't answer directly.
Reason being is you are treating your employees like a complete "see u next Tuesday".
As you have you work your guys on 19 hr days, 15 days straight, split shifts, no fatigue or human factors taken into account with your rostering, that's if you even bother to roster some of your employees and prevent fair representation that probably accounts for such a stupid response as "have you stopped molesting children".
I think you need a holiday from the forum!
You don't have enough staff to cover the contracts you have now, let alone pick up the QF A380 work and take the people off the floor to carry out the required training.

[Nepotisim]

Which raises the interesting point of why you aren't happy that the only competitor is Australian instead of an OS company.
Is that right? We haven't been told who is tendering for the contract. There could be twenty or there could be one.
I wouldn't have thought that sort of knowledge would be let out. Maybe Gregg feed the information to you guys. What else has he told you? Isn't there some sort of law against this insider knowledge during tendering?
It is alright though, QF Supply Chain (aka Stores) is running the show. If their spare parts handling abiliities shine through on the tendering process, then QF are in a lot of trouble.:uhoh:
N

[domo]

Is that right? We haven't been told who is tendering for the contract. There could be twenty or there could be one.
its down to two qantas acs and john holland

[Romulus]

Rom, most know your cred is good don't blow it by lowering yourself to trolling

True, true, I consider myself properly and appropriately rebuked.



Rom, a serious question, do you think it's a conflict of interest for Gregg to be in the position on both boards ?


Given Gregg has nothing to do with us at JHAS, as far as I know he hasn't even visited but I may be wrong, it's not a conflict. We have appropriate separation and away we go.

There will always be crossovers occurring in business, it's pretty much unavoidable.


I mean FFS it doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out whats going on.


Care to share?

I'm not aware of any great depth except we're fighting to win some business. We have no inappropriate external help that I am aware of. Yes we might be being used to price check ACS, I doubt it however given the amount of time we are getting from Qantas management.

I could, however, be looking at the world through rose coloured glasses.

[Romulus]

Hey Romulus,I know of countless of engineers including myself that have applied for Lame/Ame Mechanical positions with your company at tullamarine but have never received a reply regarding their application.Is it too hard for you to send an email or make a phone call to let us know what is going on.Yet I see you are still advertising flat out in the 'Australian' newspaper every week.

For this I apologise profusely.

It has been raised a couple of times now and I don't know why it is occurring. The HR team are certainly flat out but that is no excuse not to send even a simple "thanks but we have nothing directly fitting your skillset right now" type of letter.

The level of demand we are seeing (and this is certainly feeding into the strain on HR) is way above what we expected so at some point there should be something for most people.

Again, my apologies for the lack of courtesy, this has been raised and will be dealt with.

[Romulus]

Romulus
A question you didn't answer directly.
Reason being is you are treating your employees like a complete "see u next Tuesday".


Actually the question was more like "will you stop treating your employees..." which is one of those questions that cannot be answered in any reasonable way. Hence the return question which was of the same ilk.



As you have you work your guys on 19 hr days


This is simply incorrect.


, 15 days straight


As is this

[/quote]
, split shifts
[/quote]

this is potentially true, can't say I am aware of any sitations where it is excessive but it is certainly possible.


, no fatigue or human factors taken into account with your rostering


we go back to being compeltely incorrect, we are well aware of human factors issues and they are ALWAYS a consideration


, that's if you even bother to roster some of your employees


there are several interpretations to this one, elaborate and I'll get back to you


and prevent fair representation


Clearly incorrect given the President of the ACTU herself negotiated the collective agreement


that probably accounts for such a stupid response as "have you stopped molesting children".


Nope, what accounts for that is an initial question of the smae ilk from another.

And yes, I shouldn't have responded the way I did, I think you'll live however.



I think you need a holiday from the forum!


thankyou for your concern, I'm fine actually


You don't have enough staff to cover the contracts you have now,


We've expanded from approx 120 to over 200 full timers, pretty much all in
genuine workforce areas and there are more offers being made all the time. We'll keep growing as long as we can win work to justify employing people.

Plus we're already declining to bid for some opportunities for exactly the reasons outlined.


let alone pick up the QF A380 work and take the people off the floor to carry out the required training.

Beleive it or not we'veactually thought about that.

So have Qantas.

And guess what - how we intend todeal with that formed a key part of our submission.

Have a great weekend

[Sunfish]

Rudderless - I am still doing penance for being a cog in an outsourcing machine, thats why I make the confession about what happens.

Romulus - Andersen Consulting (Now Accenture) - didn't work for them but I still have the scars from having had to deal with them. They climbed all over me trying to get at my customer. I have rarely seen a more vicious and self serving organisation.

EDS - Nope, but close.

As for your view of doing outsourcing "properly", you are welcome to your opinion, but as an older and more pessimistic person, the problems won't be apparent right now because they only appear when changes occur that are unanticipated in the original agreement and / or senior management changes occur resulting in different motivations and consequently "interpretations" of the agreement.

I'm afraid that I have had to deal with a large amount of what appeared to be "Ironclad" and very fair agreements with the likes of Macquarie Bank and other similar people and its amazing how "creative" and just plain evil they can be when it suits them. I'm afraid that this problem cannot be dealt with through "absolute good faith" clauses either.

For example, ever seen the "4.55pm Friday night fax" trick?

The first inkling you will get of problems is a letter with the opening sentence: "Terms in this letter have the same meaning as the definitions in our legal agreement".

I wish you luck.

[Redstone]

Quote:
, no fatigue or human factors taken into account with your rostering

we go back to being compeltely incorrect, we are well aware of human factors issues and they are ALWAYS a consideration

Good to hear Romulus, because as you would be fully aware this is a very big part of the new regs, the regs under which the A380 is being introduced.

It probably sounds all very exciting now, but the 380 contract will end up being a poisoned challace for anyone who wins it. Remember this is Qantas you are dealing with!!!

[satos]

Again, my apologies for the lack of courtesy, this has been raised and will be dealt with.Thanks for your reply Romulus.
As you know,aviation maintenance employment in Victoria is very poor at the moment with the majority of the work going to Brisbane.

[Apophis]

dealt with what a raft of crap might as well save the cost of a stamp and not apply you will get the same response.
by the way how big is the hr team proably a part timer who comes in for two hours a week casual.

[mainwheel]

It will be interesting to see the introduction of the A380 to the VH register.

What requirements for maintenance to satisfy CASA and the maker.

Are preflight inspections necessary.How often, 10 days, 20.

How broad a coverage does the MEL provide.

Would it be at all feasable to keep kicking them until they go O/T (over there) for real maintenace. Somewhere where an MRO holds EASA spares.

Then theres the B787............

[rudderless1]

So Romulos,
Peter Gregg sits on the John Holland board and knows nothing its Aviation MRO which tenders for contracts for QF's maintenance (Peter Gregg BEING THE CFO of QF). He has never visited the site? Has never passed internal information on as FAR AS YOU KNOW? I am sure he is just there to get the water.

Well, is this just more of current Australian management technique to sit people on Boards they have no idea about? I can now see why we are happy to fill Australian Board rooms with second rate yanks.

THE BOYS CLUB LIVES ON. FCUK IT!

Romulos, you are a pawn there to provide credibility to a suspect organisation. To provide you with the truth would not help the JH's cause. What better promotion than to have someone who is energetic, smart and respected driving it home. Your just part of the game, how often does the pawn make it to the other end, rather than sacrificed for the greater agenda!:)

[Romulus]

Romulus - Andersen Consulting (Now Accenture) - didn't work for them but I still have the scars from having had to deal with them. They climbed all over me trying to get at my customer. I have rarely seen a more vicious and self serving organisation.


Same here. Everything you stated was very familiar to me from a SAP contract where I was client side. They ended up with about 3 or 4 layers of AC "managers" between our management team and us.

I got shipped off everywhere for raising a stink on a regular basis.

Being a big and ugly 2nd rower who didn't care if he had to bowl into the CEOs office I was continually surprised I wasn't let go. Eventually AC tried getting me into their tent by inviting me to "strategic" meetings on how the politics should be played to get things done and how it would be "net progressive" (I kid you not) for my career.

And of course, when everything went haywire us locals copped the flack.


As for your view of doing outsourcing "properly", you are welcome to your opinion, but as an older and more pessimistic person, the problems won't be apparent right now because they only appear when changes occur that are unanticipated in the original agreement and / or senior management changes occur resulting in different motivations and consequently "interpretations" of the agreement.


We even have a mechanism for that.



I'm afraid that I have had to deal with a large amount of what appeared to be "Ironclad" and very fair agreements with the likes of Macquarie Bank and other similar people and its amazing how "creative" and just plain evil they can be when it suits them. I'm afraid that this problem cannot be dealt with through "absolute good faith" clauses either.


Agreed, the setting up of the initial contract is very important.


I wish you luck.


Thanks. I suspect I can uess how ACS will attack us to win teh business, hopefully we've thought through all of that and can make it happen.

[Romulus]

dealt with what a raft of crap might as well save the cost of a stamp and not apply you will get the same response.
by the way how big is the hr team proably a part timer who comes in for two hours a week casual.

Poor diddums.

Actually there's 2 on it full time with a lot of Corporate time in there as well.

[Romulus]

So Romulos,
Peter Gregg sits on the John Holland board and knows nothing


Im pretty sure I was clear that he knows of us but has nothing to do with us on a day to day basis.



its Aviation MRO which tenders for contracts for QF's maintenance (Peter Gregg BEING THE CFO of QF).


Our tenders do not go to Leighton Holdigns for approval, all tenders go to the MD of John Holland and that's it. Very important principle given we have a number of businesses competing in certain areas.


He has never visited the site?


I can state with certainty he has never been tehre when I have been there, nor have I ever met the man or even had a discussion with him.


Has never passed internal information on as FAR AS YOU KNOW?


Given I can only speak for myself I can confirm he has never even spoken to me let alone given me any info. And given I'm fully involved with teh A380 submissions I think I'd know.

Equally, you apparently CAN speak for him. I suggest you claim the money from that Skeptics mob who offer billions for proven ESP type skills.

Or perhaps you're just making it all up which reflects rather badly on you. Of course, if you have anything to back up your claims I suggest you contact ASIC and report it.

Somehow I expect to hear the sound of silence on that score.


I am sure he is just there to get the water.


Well, the chairwoman of John Holland does provide us with some nice staff benefits in terms of discounted wines from one of her other companies...

Is that evil? Does it fit into your "Illuminati" like conspiracy theories?


Well, is this just more of current Australian management technique to sit people on Boards they have no idea about? I can now see why we are happy to fill Australian Board rooms with second rate yanks.


Come now, take a Bex and have a good lie down!!



THE BOYS CLUB LIVES ON. FCUK IT!


Bugger. I guess that's why we have a female GM at JHAS and a female Chairwoman at John Holland.


Romulos, you are a pawn there to provide credibility to a suspect organisation.


Why thanks, I think that's a compliment. But which organisation is suspect?


To provide you with the truth would not help the JH's cause. What better promotion than to have someone who is energetic, smart and respected driving it home.


Um, if you're referring to me then I'll accept energetic but smart and respected is pushing it a bit.

:hmm:

Maybe I should hire you to do PR for me!


Your just part of the game, how often does the pawn make it to the other end, rather than sacrificed for the greater agenda!:)


Oddly enough I've already been sacrificed twice before in my career. Maybe it will happen again. Equally I'm one of those stupid types who insists on trying to change things for, hopefully, the better.

Peace and goodwill to all

R

[Apophis]

and still you can,t reply to people !

[NAS1801]

Apophis, I seem to remember you making the SAME complaints with respect to an application up in Brisbane with Qantas. Maybe you just need to face the fact that if you are not hearing back, you're unsuccessful.

[Romulus]

and still you can,t reply to people !

well, I posted an apology at teh start of the weekend. Not sure what more you want in the timeframe, box of tissues perhaps?

[chemical alli]

latest rumor . qantas to start eoi submissions next week for lames interested in 380 training.apparently the short time until the guppy arrives has painted supply into a corner and the board has directed engineering to start training.it doesnt seem to matter who will win the bid as apparently the decision on maint provider will not be made until start next year.

romulus spend your money training because you may reap what you sow

as for jha i cant believe that the alaea supports undercutting the majority of members

[Romulus]

latest rumor . qantas to start eoi submissions next week for lames interested in 380 training.apparently the short time until the guppy arrives has painted supply into a corner and the board has directed engineering to start training.


Timelines indicate this is the case.


it doesnt seem to matter who will win the bid as apparently the decision on maint provider will not be made until start next year.

romulus spend your money training because you may reap what you sow


Wow, what a bitter man you are. Somehow you think us spending money training people is a bad thing.

I suggest you need a mirror for the activity you need to undertake.

And you need to undertake it pretty urgently.


as for jha i cant believe that the alaea supports undercutting the majority of members

What a lovely "I'm all right Jack" comment. I didn't realise the ALAEA were there to represent you over other LAMEs CA. Perhaps you'd better spend even longer with the mirror.

[Romulus]

Quote:
and still you can,t reply to people !
well, I posted an apology at teh start of the weekend. Not sure what more you want in the timeframe, box of tissues perhaps?

OK, have checked with HR and the policy is crystal clear - EVERYONE who applies should have recieved a response. We have changed HR personnel recently so I'm interested to hear if anyone has applied in, say, the last 6 weeks and they haven't had a response in a reasonable timeframe.

If this is the case then I apologise again and commit that we will fix the system.

[The Bungeyed Bandit]

Romulus,

Where does JHA propose conducting the maintenance of the A380? Also does the JHA bid include the following to support the maintenance of the A380:

- The supply of all specific tooling required.
- Hangar big enough to jack the aircraft - If so where.
- Logistic/Parts support.
- Training up to EASA standard.
- Workshop support.
- NDI support.
- Technical publication support (AMM, IPC, FIM, SRM, Maint Memos, ADs, EIs, SBs, etc)
- Technical Services support.
- Maintenance Watch support.

Also Romulus, the caring nature you exude on this forum certainly doesn't marry with your Username. Then again, I guess someone who would slay his own brother so he could sit on the throne of Rome could also be a two-faced conman. Come to think of it, if JHA doesn't get the contract you could always jump ship and work for Qantas. God knows there are plenty of backstabbing, slimy bastards working there who would sell their own grandmother to be able to rule over others.

[Romulus]

Romulus,

Where does JHA propose conducting the maintenance of the A380? Also does the JHA bid include the following to support the maintenance of the A380:

- The supply of all specific tooling required.
- Hangar big enough to jack the aircraft - If so where.
- Logistic/Parts support.
- Training up to EASA standard.
- Workshop support.
- NDI support.
- Technical publication support (AMM, IPC, FIM, SRM, Maint Memos, ADs, EIs, SBs, etc)
- Technical Services support.
- Maintenance Watch support.


Without getting into confidential details all of these are covered in our proposal and are fully funded and timelined as to achievability.



Also Romulus, the caring nature you exude on this forum certainly doesn't marry with your Username. Then again, I guess someone who would slay his own brother so he could sit on the throne of Rome could also be a two-faced conman. Come to think of it, if JHA doesn't get the contract you could always jump ship and work for Qantas. God knows there are plenty of backstabbing, slimy bastards working there who would sell their own grandmother to be able to rule over others.

Well, I chose Romulus for building Rome, Rome not built in a day etc etc etc. And it's true that poor Remus copped the crappy end of the stick.

My way is terribly blunt sometimes, there's no backstabbing but I'm happy to have a standup fight if need be. Not the preferred option but sometimes it's necessary.

I don't think Qantas culture could handle my approach, nor could I handle Qantas culture. Irresistable force vs immovable object and all that.

Would be fun to try however (and if that makes me sound like a megalomaniac then I apologise) and change the system so that everything was onshore.

From what people have taught me in the last year (my first visit to AAES was Oct 16 last year) I understand that Qantas helped SIAEC set up and learn how to do business.

Now that's ironic.

[Anulus Filler]

Just my 5 cents worth- I reckon the contract will go to QF. The taining will be dished out to all those LAMES who are capped out or are unable to move to the next level (which is quite a few LAMES). End result: The LAMES will be trained and get their 380 at no extra manpower cost to the company. You can be assured that they'll all put their hand up and run to that classroom like flies to sh!t.-BRILLIANT idea that graded wage scale.:ok:

[chemical alli]

hey romulus training isnt a bad thing its your pont of view,about q lames that is. maybe you need a long look in the mirror as well,slander poor grade 4 lames that havent got a chance with new technology aircraft, bid for an aircraft that you or anybody other then sia have trained people ,put out absolute long line fishing hooks just to see if there are any bites ,by way of your ads that people recieve no reply. use other mro facilities and pretend that you have a rite to take as much as you can without putting up the dollars for infrastucture .may you recieve the 380 bid is the genuine q consensus just dont think q employees will welcome or help with open arms when your empire(rome) falls in a heap and you start paying performance penalties

[Bumpfoh]

The "capped out" bit may have some merit from the company's view but the bit I can't cop is the whole EOI concept.

What makes this A/C any different from any other new type into the fleet???
I'm positive that if you asked all of the LAME's in ACS only a very small % would say no to training more than likely for personnel reasons.


I know this is pie in the sky stuff but if there is any resolve out there WRT stalled EBA negotiations etc then NO ONE should submit an EOI for 380 training and then see what master stroke M has up his sleeve. :ok:

I don't believe M would have an action plan for that given the world of utopia he lives in.:E

[Romulus]

hey romulus training isnt a bad thing its your pont of view,about q lames that is.


can you give me a quick recap of how my view of QF LAMEs is negative?


slander poor grade 4 lames that havent got a chance with new technology aircraft

Um, I've slandered them how?


, bid for an aircraft that you or anybody other then sia have trained people


What are you on about here.....


,put out absolute long line fishing hooks just to see if there are any bites


*yawn*

Again, what the heck are you on about. Please try plain English


,by way of your ads that people recieve no reply.


I'm told that everyoine who has applied under the new people should have a reply. We are currently showing no gaps on the process review matrix.



use other mro facilities and pretend that you have a rite to take as much as you can without putting up the dollars for infrastucture


I think you may be overlooking a few facilities we have purchased in Melbourne. As for the others we either pay commercial rents or some other form of consideration.

And others pay us a commercial rent when they use our hangars so we're not the lone ranger in that practice.

And it may be a bit hard to fathom but we're part of a very large construction engineering company, do you think we'd have any problem accessing building expertise if teh business case justified additional facilities?

Or maybe you just think there should be hangars built willy nilly all over the country.


.may you recieve the 380 bid is the genuine q consensus just dont think q employees will welcome or help with open arms when your empire(rome) falls in a heap and you start paying performance penalties

I'm not asking Q employees to cover any deficiencies, equally I have no idea if you're trying to say you think it would be good for us to win the 380 work or if you think the exact opposite.

[The Mr Fixit]

Bump
It would be a beautiful thing to see all LAMEs at QF hold the line
...........................but how long would it last ?
the scabs located in base would leap at any opportunity to stitch up their brothers as shown in the past, PERTH, MELBOURNE, ATLAS OPS need I go on even reps and former officials have gone on these jollies so I won't hold my breath
BUT THEY ARE NOT ALONE, SCABS LIVE WHERE WE ALL DO, YOU JUST DON'T SEE THEM TILL THE STAKES ARE HIGH ENOUGH SO THEY CAN JUSTIFY THEIR BETRAYAL

DMMs from SDT , BASE, BNE, MEL, PER etc

mmmmmmmmm Is there a pattern emerging here ?

oh there is an odd one out the puppet who dobbed in a crewmate so he could secure a DMM job

ohhh sry same pattern

[VBA Engineer]

Romulus,

How on earth do you think you can undertake A380 maintenance.

Maybe best you focus on getting some of those narrowbody aircraft out on time first (without panic calling for customer provided LAME's and support staff). :=

[Romulus]

How on earth do you think you can undertake A380 maintenance.

Well we have these things called tools - stuff like spanners and things.

Then we undo and do some bits that hold things together and have a bit of a look and fix stuff that needs fixing.

Or something like that

:)


Maybe best you focus on getting some of those narrowbody aircraft out on time first (without panic calling for customer provided LAME's and support staff). :=

Examples?

[Bolty McBolt]

Quote:
I would suggest you are only still in the tender process to keep the cost down

Possibly, but if you're going to believe that then the bigger threat would be SIAEC given their access to the type and all.....

Which raises the interesting point of why you aren't happy that the only competitor is Australian instead of an OS company.

And even if you're right then sooner or later they have to give us something to keep us in the game, a threat is only useful if there's the belief it will be exercised.


To answer your Question. SIAEC were involved but pulled out. I wonder why as the have untold amount of experience maintaining large wide body aircraft. Perhaps they know something JHAS does not.
DC directed supply chain to get another company back in the bid process after ALL had pulled out. So a phone call was made to someone somewhere.
JHAS are back.


I like being a pawn, nobody really bothers you until you reach the other end of the board and all of a sudden you're the most powerful piece on the board. We just have to make sure we get there.

Judging from your reaction we have a few people worried already.


As far as pawns go you need to go along past you in the food chain to get to the pawns.. which are the unemployed/employed LAMES in this country whom like you say will be one of the most powerful pieces in this game come crunch time..
Perhaps JHAS are being used as a tool... Time will tell

Good luck but I do find it very perplexing that a company with very little LARGE aircraft maintenance experience could jump in on a project like this and hope to succeed when awarded the contract. My experience with maintenance of single aisle 737/A320 heavy and line maint Versus wide body to be chalk and cheese.
Size matters ! This is why I find it hard to accept JHAS bid as bona fide ...:ok:

I am sure all will be revealed perhaps all be it to late for proper introduction but management don’t care so why should I :ok:

[The Bungeyed Bandit]

A fellow colleague came up with a brilliant suggestion when this whole thing about ACS having to bid for A380 maintenance first came up about 18 months ago - Harris and McDermott should have told the company to go to hell. Find someone who could SERIOUSLY perform the required maintenance to acceptable standards and when it all fell to **** then maybe we could sit down and talk business.

Would never happen but one can sometimes dream.

[satos]

John Holland again advertised in today's Australian newspaper now looking for Lames/Ames with group 20/21 experience.The ad does not mention aircraft type preferred but maybe some A380 type training might be provided etc.
I will put my application in "again" and let's see if Romulus is true to his word and I hear a reply from them.

[Toolman101]

Sun fish

Just pick up this thread and read your post of the 5/10.

I obviously went to the wrong uni, I should have gone the Borgia school of management for my MBA:ok::ok::ok:

[Romulus]

John Holland again advertised in today's Australian newspaper now looking for Lames/Ames with group 20/21 experience.The ad does not mention aircraft type preferred but maybe some A380 type training might be provided etc.
I will put my application in "again" and let's see if Romulus is true to his word and I hear a reply from them.

If you don't I'd like to hear from you because it means that somewhere the system is falling down.

[Romulus]

I obviously went to the wrong uni, I should have gone the Borgia school of management for my MBA

That would be Andersen Consulting.

Soon as I see that on a resume then the candidate is guaranteed a stiff cross examination to see where they sit.

[Apophis]

Doh ! as in most companies the HR dept have not got a clue whats really required and how to treat applicants.

[wingers]

Yeah ..Apophis or Dave E..another one of your misguided rants

[chemical alli]

so yet another jha add in the australian with the potential for A380 training. the question that candidates need to ask is if this potential licence training evaporates then what ? dont know if i would leave a secure job albeit underpayed to pin my hopes on potential training under a an awa

[Romulus]

so yet another jha add in the australian with the potential for A380 training. the question that candidates need to ask is if this potential licence training evaporates then what ? dont know if i would leave a secure job albeit underpayed to pin my hopes on potential training under a an awa

The first question is valid adn applicants SHOULD ask that question.

The second point regarding the use of an awa is, as per your usual standard, fundamentally incorrect.

[Romulus]

Maybe best you focus on getting some of those narrowbody aircraft out on time first (without panic calling for customer provided LAME's and support staff). :=

Hey VBA Engineer!

Given your insider knowledge how about you tell everyone our turnaround time for the last winglet installation we did??

You know, the one when we didn't also have a twin lightning strike to deal with as an urgent repair at the same time?

[Romulus]

Quote:
Maybe best you focus on getting some of those narrowbody aircraft out on time first (without panic calling for customer provided LAME's and support staff). :=
Hey VBA Engineer!

Given your insider knowledge how about you tell everyone our turnaround time for the last winglet installation we did??

You know, the one when we didn't also have a twin lightning strike to deal with as an urgent repair at the same time?

Hello?

Gone missing VBA?

4.5 days instead of the allotted 6 did I hear you say?

Heh, I'll back our guys against all comers.

[chemical alli]

looks like q just put out A380 staff eoi,guess its down to two horses now jha and q itself, hope romulus is prepared to loose some south pacific peso,s. looks as if both will have to train before the bird arrives and wait the bid outcome. goodluck to all who apply internally.

[Romulus]

looks like q just put out A380 staff eoi,guess its down to two horses now jha and q itself, hope romulus is prepared to loose some south pacific peso,s. looks as if both will have to train before the bird arrives and wait the bid outcome. goodluck to all who apply internally.

Spots are locked away for B1, B2 & Type.....

[UnderneathTheRadar]

First up - I have no connection with JHAS or anyone who works there. I do, however, have experience of working very closely with John Holland in other engineering disciplines.

There seems to be a small number of a/c engineers on this site who:
a) bitch and moan at the way Qantas treats them (justifiably if you ask me); but
b) have it in for JHAS/Romulus

I can't comment on the relative wages & conditions of either employer but I can say that the John Holland (and their owners Leightons Holdings) are principally engineers and maintainers and not operators. As such, they tend to understand the value of their human capital in these fields as they realise this expertise is hard won and not to be given away lightly. This would appear to be in stark contrast to Qantas' attitude to anyone not in senior management.

I realise it's easy for me to sit on the sidelines and say this but I honestly believe that an organisation looking to expand and develop it's expertise - with a proven track record of recognising the performances of it's employees has got to be worth giving the benefit of the doubt to. JHAS will have the corporate backing to persue this A380 bid as far as it needs to go and the whole shooting match will not disintegrate if they don't win - from an outsiders view they have to be rank longshots to win - they'll pick themselves up and try again knowing full well that the capacity crunch is on and the contracts will flow.

Sure, any new organisation is going to struggle and trip from time to time but so do the incumbents. Point being, if I were qualified and looking for a job with JHAS, Forstaff or Qantas there's only 1 choice I'd make. Plus you have to give Romulus credit for his openess (although he's let himself down today by getting sucked in!) on where things stand - you won't see that anywhere else.

Like I said, no vested interest in this topic whatsoever - I'm just impressed with the Holland's corporate culture with respect to employees and technical skills and would hope to help you LAME/AMEs to recognise the differences to some of the other employers out there.

Ready to be shot down in flames.......

UTR.

[Romulus]

There seems to be a small number of a/c engineers on this site who:
a) bitch and moan at the way Qantas treats them (justifiably if you ask me); but
b) have it in for JHAS/Romulus


I suspect that a leads to b although I've yet to feel anyone has it in for me/us at any serious level.



I can't comment on the relative wages & conditions of either employer but I can say that the John Holland (and their owners Leightons Holdings) are principally engineers and maintainers and not operators. As such, they tend to understand the value of their human capital in these fields as they realise this expertise is hard won and not to be given away lightly. This would appear to be in stark contrast to Qantas' attitude to anyone not in senior management.


Only example I can think of is that new internet trend of the moment: Facebook.

Pretty much every employer bans it as a waste of time, threat to secrity etc.

Our rules are a bit different. Provided you don't spend too much time on there and you don't get email directed to your JHG email account direct from Facebook then it's open access (subject to normal rules of acceptable behaviour etc).

Same goes for pprune.

That's a difference. Maybe not much in itself but as an approach to people it speaks volumes.

[chemical alli]

hey romulus youve sold me ,if i can use face book i am applying immediately.

to not point bones but the reason why q lames are against jha is the factwe have had to tender for (our) being q aircraft, now this might be the new way of business and yes i agree things have to change and be more flexible.but when it comes to a department that once prided itself on turn times and can do attitude ,that has only been driven into the ground by inept management. then now you can understand the morale issues

[Romulus]

hey romulus youve sold me ,if i can use face book i am applying immediately.

to not point bones but the reason why q lames are against jha is the factwe have had to tender for (our) being q aircraft, now this might be the new way of business and yes i agree things have to change and be more flexible.but when it comes to a department that once prided itself on turn times and can do attitude ,that has only been driven into the ground by inept management. then now you can understand the morale issues


Yep, I can completely understand where you're coming from.

[Long Bay Mauler]

So Romulus,any time frame on when you guys start your A380 classroom training?

[Romulus]

So Romulus,any time frame on when you guys start your A380 classroom training?

Yes, but not that I'm going to post.

B1 and B2 first however.

[VBA Engineer]

Quote:
Maybe best you focus on getting some of those narrowbody aircraft out on time first (without panic calling for customer provided LAME's and support staff). :=
Hey VBA Engineer!

Given your insider knowledge how about you tell everyone our turnaround time for the last winglet installation we did??

You know, the one when we didn't also have a twin lightning strike to deal with as an urgent repair at the same time?



Romulus,

That was my point exactly, how can you expect to maintain an a380 when you can't get a narrow body out on time.

Finding a couple of lightning strike hits is not uncommon when you have an aircraft in the shed, it is a pissy repair. God help us if you ever find cracks or corrosion in primary structure or maybe even an engine or gear change.

With regard to the 4 1/2 day turnaround for the winglet mod, keep in mind that the Kiwi's have been reliably performing the heavy checks in 3 days which includes ferry flights to and from Christchurch. They added an extra day to include the winglet mod.

Yep, 4 days to do the complete heavy check and the full winglet mod (including those ferry flights).

So please, don't listen to all of that self praise happening around you at JHAS when you finally got the winglet mod alone down to 4 1/2 days.

[NAS1801]

A heavy check in 4 days???? What kind of heavy check?

[Romulus]

Quote:
Quote:
Maybe best you focus on getting some of those narrowbody aircraft out on time first (without panic calling for customer provided LAME's and support staff). :=
Hey VBA Engineer!

Given your insider knowledge how about you tell everyone our turnaround time for the last winglet installation we did??

You know, the one when we didn't also have a twin lightning strike to deal with as an urgent repair at the same time?

Romulus,

That was my point exactly, how can you expect to maintain an a380 when you can't get a narrow body out on time.


So let me get this right - you're questioning OUR capability because we have a planned event (i.e. winglet mods) and then when an unscheduled event like a lightning strike crops up at the same time you think it's a problem when we say we can do it provided we get some LAME support? i.e. we can provide hangar space, composite repair capability, full back shop support, the works. Yet apparently it's our problem. How interesting.

I suppose your solution would be to simply tell the custoemr to bugger off. WHat we did was indicate a solution that was achievable to minimise disruption to the schedule.

Of course, I'm sure you're also aware that some incorrect consumables/expendables were also supplied (at the last minute). Our guys made the call that we should not use these items, we should get the correct items. And the company backed that call.

What would you prefer us to do VBA? Override a correct LAME call to do the right thing.

Tsk, tsk.

Perhaps you'd prefer us to act in the manner everybody else (rightly) complains about on this forum.



Finding a couple of lightning strike hits is not uncommon when you have an aircraft in the shed, it is a pissy repair.


Agreed. And as we're ramping up the workforce our guys were committed to something else. Perhaps you need to examine why we were asked to do the job in the first place.


God help us if you ever find cracks or corrosion in primary structure or maybe even an engine or gear change.


Well, we have replaced several major floor beams for Qantas.


With regard to the 4 1/2 day turnaround for the winglet mod, keep in mind that the Kiwi's have been reliably performing the heavy checks in 3 days which includes ferry flights to and from Christchurch. They added an extra day to include the winglet mod.

Yep, 4 days to do the complete heavy check and the full winglet mod (including those ferry flights).


Which is all fine and dandy if you have an established AIRLINE around you to provide enough work to keep people fully employed. I'd argue that with proper scheduling then the winglets would have no impact on the delivery of the aircraft in conjunction with the heavy check. But then, maybe that's just me.



So please, don't listen to all of that self praise happening around you at JHAS when you finally got the winglet mod alone down to 4 1/2 days.


Methinks you're sounding jealous.

My job is to look and evaluate and if necessary recommend change, and from what I see I'd take the guys we have now over the Kiwis. Not that they're bad, in fact they're damn good, it's just that our guys are better.

IMHO of course.

[shazza26]

Romolus what do u do at JHG? R u an Engineer?

[Romulus]

Romolus what do u do at JHG? R u an Engineer?

For what it's worth I'm in corporate doing strategy and M&A type stuff.

[Romulus]

With regard to the 4 1/2 day turnaround for the winglet mod, keep in mind that the Kiwi's have been reliably performing the heavy checks in 3 days which includes ferry flights to and from Christchurch. They added an extra day to include the winglet mod.

Yep, 4 days to do the complete heavy check and the full winglet mod (including those ferry flights).


Done some checking.

Are you SURE these winglet mods took place in NZ?

I can't find any reference to it at all, so barring some evidence to teh contrary I'm going to have to file you away under a less than polite term for someone who isn't quite accurate when it comes to the truth.

2 of the letters from your screen name may apply in this situation.

[VBA Engineer]

The winglet mods began in 2004.

When fuel prices soared 12 months ago the remainder of the fleet were approved for the mod, this is the small portion you have been involved with.

No BS here. :=



Now, can we get back on topic?

How do you propose to compete for A380 work without having a national presence and a reasonable LAME pool? Are you looking at Line support or just Base Maintenance?

[Romulus]

The winglet mods began in 2004.

When fuel prices soared 12 months ago the remainder of the fleet were approved for the mod, this is the small portion you have been involved with.

No BS here. :=


Interesting. Nobody I know at ANZ ES/TO backs this timeframe up. Admittedly that's only 3 people but they SHOULD be in positions to know.

Key question that arises then is why did VB give us the later work knowing that these were the timeframes?


Now, can we get back on topic?


Um, OK, I thought this was addressing your point.

Equally good to see you drop the issue about JHAS meeting your timeframe needs by saving time trough dodgy maintenance practices although it would have been good to get your final view on that one.




How do you propose to compete for A380 work without having a national presence and a reasonable LAME pool? Are you looking at Line support or just Base Maintenance?

We need a national presence why exactly? Should I be planning to maintain 380s out of Cairns?

As for the LAME pool that's growing rapidly, we're committed to a training program to expand it further and we'll see how we go.

And yes, the RFT was Line AND Base.

[Torqueman]

Originally Posted by Romulus
As for the LAME pool that's growing rapidly, we're committed to a training program to expand it further and we'll see how we go.

Not what I have heard on the grape vine...........

I hear that some back pedaling is taking place and training is being postponed.......

The question is why are you not pushing on with the B1, B2 training while awaiting the A380 outcome?

Your guys will be better placed in the future with it anyway with the new licence system and aircraft types. Even if the A380 falls through, there are other EASA type jets coming onto the register soonish.

[Romulus]

Not what I have heard on the grape vine...........

Ah, now there's a valid source of information!

It's certainly true that I (note this is a personal statement) would have liked to have Pt 66 type training underway. Equally we're catching up on a backlog of human factors and all the other important required bits.

Plus we actually need some final direction from CASA as to what will and will not be in their version of the regs as opposed to EASA. Given the legislation isn't actually finalised yet I accept CASA can't yet give us this, they have however been pretty generous with their time to help us sort out what is likely to happen.


I hear that some back pedaling is taking place and training is being postponed.......

The question is why are you not pushing on with the B1, B2 training while awaiting the A380 outcome?

Your guys will be better placed in the future with it anyway with the new licence system and aircraft types. Even if the A380 falls through, there are other EASA type jets coming onto the register soonish.

Agreed.

Equally despite doubling the workforce we're still running pretty close to capacity so we need to take care to schedule everything properly to ensure we don't cause any human factors problems, miss dealines etc and of course we still need to tie in with relevant training course dates.

[VBA Engineer]

Romulus,


Key question that arises then is why did VB give us the later work knowing that these were the timeframes?



Because the Kiwi's were flat out doing the nose to tail LiveTV installations and Virgin Tech were flat out taking over Jet Care, you are a solution for overflow work.


Equally good to see you drop the issue about JHAS meeting your timeframe needs by saving time trough dodgy maintenance practices although it would have been good to get your final view on that one.


Not sure what you are getting at with this one, if I have inferred that JHAS are dodgy then I am happy to correct that as it is not my view, but I don't recall ever implying it or suggesting it as a solution for late delivery.

[SUB]

Anyone with any ideas where this A380 training will take place, can it be carried out in OZ, what about the PCT ??

[Bolty McBolt]

Romulus...

QF has been told by CASA that if they intend to only license a few on the new big bird, the people they train had better have plenty of cross trade experience and many years experience in maintenance of large pax aircraft.

Jet * international are also looking for the exact same qualifications as they cannot fill the 787 training slots from internal vacancies, so they too are advertising. ( I personally refuse to pay those priques the $15 dollar application fee)

Virgin and their international fleet will probably need same....

JHAS Will be looking for the same qualifications, how will you fill your requirement, Import?
I guess I am asking...How much?

:ok:

[domo]

After seeing the thing in comercial operation Im thinking of banging in an expression of interest, QANTAS nearly sucked the life out of me. but seeing a new type in comercial operation i am excited again.
ps heard big kev is gone to stores

[Syd eng]

Kev gone for short term Secondment to Dispatch reliability. Hespe the boss for a little while.

Going to throw an EOI in too, pity I don't meet the minimum criteria. Will apply just to make sure they spend some time looking.

[PitPin]

Heard today that JHAS lames in Mel have been advised of the training dates and location for EASA b1 conversion training ,the A380 type training as well as PCT . QF slow as usual !

[No SAR No Details]

I heard on the Grape Vine that the ASC may be asked to look at Peter Greggs dealings with QF and JHAS and conflicts of interest in the awarding of maintenance contracts.
Anyone shed any light?

QF slow as usual..... the birdy says that QF are paying JHAS to do the training to provide a second party for the tendering process, to attempt to screw the prices down for the ACS bid.

What has the world come to?

[Romulus]

Heard today that JHAS lames in Mel have been advised of the training dates and location for EASA b1 conversion training ,the A380 type training as well as PCT .

Correct. 10 December for B1.

We may not win but we'll push ACS as hard as we can.

[Romulus]

I heard on the Grape Vine that the ASC may be asked to look at Peter Greggs dealings with QF and JHAS and conflicts of interest in the awarding of maintenance contracts.
Anyone shed any light?


Yep. Peter Gregg has had a grand total of zero involvement from our end.

If it were as simple as ringing up and saying "Hey Pete sign the contracts I'm Express Posting you then stick me in first class for a stint in the Bahamas" Mrs Romulus would be very happy.

Problem is that I and the rest of the JHAS team have to work frigging hard to win the work, so do us the courtesy of judging us on our merits. So far we're ahead of the ACS guys from what we can tell, whether that will be enough to get us over the line I somehow doubt, but by the required date we'll have everything ready and be giving it our best shot.


QF slow as usual..... the birdy says that QF are paying JHAS to do the training to provide a second party for the tendering process, to attempt to screw the prices down for the ACS bid.

Problem is that we made it through the preliminary rounds by doing something so very different in terms of pricing and delivery programming that unless ACS fundamentally changes their business model the structure simply doesn't allow that to happen easily.


What has the world come to?

Um, October 31 2008?

;)


Note: Edit to get my quote marks correct

[wingers]

Romulus,

You are the best i have ever seen, your online strategy will be studied by many business schools, (not being sarcastic) true poetry.. one defines its oposition by ones actions... those actions are in effect reflective...

[Romulus]

Romulus,

You are the best i have ever seen, your online strategy will be studied by many business schools, (not being sarcastic) true poetry.. one defines its oposition by ones actions... those actions are in effect reflective...

Um, I think that's meant to be an insult (given the thumbs down thing).

But if you're defining me and my actions as being reflective of the opposition then I'm pretty happy to be very different to them so in a roundabout kind of way, my thanks!

[Redstone]

Romulus, how many people are you part66/A380 training in the first wave?

[satmstr]

hey Romulus, just been reading this thread and been wondering a couple of things.

1. Does JHAS Have Easa Part 145 Approval?
2. Does JHAS have a hanger big enough to fit the A380 In. Becuase as you are probably aware this is a requirement under easa part 145 regs which i have extracted and put below.

145.A.25 Facility requirements
The organisation shall ensure that:
(a) Facilities are provided appropriate for all planned work, ensuring in particular, protection from the weather
elements. Specialised workshops and bays are segregated as appropriate, to ensure that environmental and work area
contamination is unlikely to occur.
1. For base maintenance of aircraft, aircraft hangars are both available and large enough to accommodate aircraft on
planned base maintenance;
2. For component maintenance, component workshops are large enough to accommodate the components on
planned maintenance.

I am also wondering how the conversion to B1 for your current Mech Engineers is going to pan out, currently i have heard that the B1 conversion is a restricted B1 license until more exams are done.

Also have you started training for Cat C personnel so they can sign the release to service?

Not having a dig romulus just trying to see were JHAS is at ?

Thanks Satmstr

[company_spy]

If I may be so bold.....

satmstr, Qantas (the "airline" who own all the stuff) own the hangar in Sydney. Who ever wins the bid get to use all the toys.

Part 66 conversion courses run in Qld at Aviation Australia, required training for an unrestricted B1 outcome, now obviously if you start with mech guys who hold avionic extensions and maint. authorities your burden on training is very low.

A cat "A" part 66 can sign a release to service. A cat "B" part 66 can sign a release to service. You may be thinking of a "Maintenance Release" but the depth of maint will be to A or part A check only. No idea who is going to do the heavy stuff.

Just off topic, is appears that Qf have been sold the A380 with assurances from Airbus that this aircraft is so well designed and made that maintenance will be practically non existant. Just gas her up and change the odd wheel..... now if you believe that I have a nice bridge for sale:}

[Romulus]

Romulus, how many people are you part66/A380 training in the first wave?

Without going into specifics (for obvious reasons) we have allowed for a minimum coverage of B1, B2 and additionals to cover every shift required by the operating schedule we have been given.

Some other interesting stuff in the scheduling as well, given that's a potential advantage to us I must politely decline to share the info here.

Some numbers were given to our people at the last all hands info session on Wednesday.

[Romulus]

hey Romulus, just been reading this thread and been wondering a couple of things.

1. Does JHAS Have Easa Part 145 Approval?
2. Does JHAS have a hanger big enough to fit the A380 In. Becuase as you are probably aware this is a requirement under easa part 145 regs which i have extracted and put below.

145.A.25 Facility requirements
The organisation shall ensure that:
(a) Facilities are provided appropriate for all planned work, ensuring in particular, protection from the weather
elements. Specialised workshops and bays are segregated as appropriate, to ensure that environmental and work area
contamination is unlikely to occur.
1. For base maintenance of aircraft, aircraft hangars are both available and large enough to accommodate aircraft on
planned base maintenance;
2. For component maintenance, component workshops are large enough to accommodate the components on
planned maintenance.

Answering Q2 first: Hangar 145 in MEL will house most of an 800 series 380. A good construction company could add mobile fully enclosed tail docking without a problem. Taxiway tracking has been orally approved with CASA, facilities requirements for floor loadings are being covered by some structural people we happen to know quite well.

Sometimes things come together nicely.

Components space is no problem at all. Ansett must have spent a fortune on those facilities, despite 5 years of administration they are still in very good shape and they are freaking huge. We're doing some general tidying up and they're coming along nicely.

To answer Q1: EASA audit starts tomorow and lasts for a full week. Exposition has been in for some time, not perfect but not unworkable either. I'm sure we'll have some more work to do, equally I'm confident we'll be passed.



I am also wondering how the conversion to B1 for your current Mech Engineers is going to pan out, currently i have heard that the B1 conversion is a restricted B1 license until more exams are done.


As I understand it on July 1 next year all current LAMEs automatically become either a restricted B1 or restricted B2 unless they do some extra work/exams. Some guys have gone out and done that of their own accord, as an example I told one of our guys to bring in his receipts and I'll reimburse him for the expense. Plus he's on A380 program if he wants to be, initiative must be rewarded.


Also have you started training for Cat C personnel so they can sign the release to service?

Some discussion with CASA as to how Cat C will work in Australia. No training as yet because until CASA resolve what is actually required to be covered nobody can write a course.


Not having a dig romulus just trying to see were JHAS is at ?

Thanks Satmstr

No probs. Always happy to share as much non confidential info as I can.

[Romulus]

If I may be so bold.....

satmstr, Qantas (the "airline" who own all the stuff) own the hangar in Sydney. Who ever wins the bid get to use all the toys.


Which would cover part of Sunfish's previous concerns. This would structure the deal so QF can never be locked out of doing the work themselves if they desire. Smart move. Do you think they took that option?

[Bolty McBolt]

Agreement doesn't look too bad

Cant say I agree with that. Way to many presidents set by that document.
Much of it has been done before as a gentlemans agreement but never in writing.
You are agreeing to no industrial action ever while on a 380 crew. No say or right to complain about the roster imposed on you and worst of all.
Bonded for your training 30 K.
So you can be pushed from pillar to post work an awful roster and still get stung if you leave..

I can't say I would be happy to sign it. Especially as its Ms baby and his signature all over it. :yuk:
I would reject it on that alone.

[chemical alli]

dont think it will really matter as jha will probably end up with the bid. guess its a shot across the bow on who is willing to for go certain award conditions . some very experienced guys have so far missed out on an interview so i guess the list is long and distinguished.glad i applied to jha even after bagging romulus ,maybe ill see a airbus before i retire

[Romulus]

glad i applied to jha even after bagging romulus ,maybe ill see a airbus before i retire

Have we called you yet?

And if you think you've bagged me out, well all I can say is you're a gentleman. Bear in mind I come from construction, Google Joe McDonald CFMEU and see how we're used to being bagged out.....

:)

[blackhander]

Havent called me yet romulus. Or was the 6 week contract offer a foot in the door opportunity?

[727ace]

Hey Romulus
I have had a application in when the original expressions of interest where advertised earlier in the year and never heard a thing. What goes?
seems you only picking up those with useful licences and not those WHO havent got useful tickets BUT could offer experience and would be "most willing to be coursed up" :hmm:

[Romulus]

Havent called me yet romulus. Or was the 6 week contract offer a foot in the door opportunity?

Not knowing who you are makes it a touch difficult but it's always a possibility.

[Romulus]

Hey Romulus
I have had a application in when the original expressions of interest where advertised earlier in the year and never heard a thing. What goes?

For this I apologise, we have replaced the HR function, probably following your app. Feel free to PM me and I'll chase it through teh system to get you an answer.


seems you only picking up those with useful licences and not those WHO havent got useful tickets BUT could offer experience and would be "most willing to be coursed up" :hmm:

That's a fair call, I'd suggest it's pretty logical to go with those who already have licences, we're going to be spending a small fortune on 380 training so if we are unsuccessful in that area then we need a backup plan for everyone we employ. We don't intend employing people only to have to let them go a few months later, we employ for the long term.

[numbskull]

No reply here yet either Romulus. (although its only been 4 weeks out of your stipulated 6 week response time).

A courtesy email saying that "we have received your application" wouldn't go astray so that I know you HAVE received it and are still considering it(or not as the case may be).

When are you expecting a decision from QF as to the outcome of the 380 bid?

If you are successful, how many people will you be looking for and how soon will you be putting people on after a decision is made(assuming you win the bid)?

Thanks in advance

[The Mr Fixit]

Word on the bid should be in the mail

QF LAMEs in Syd and Rom, you could help out here

Both Qantas Engineering and JHAS are training I'm told or organising training without either getting the bid.

The big rumours are that QF airways paid for JHAS training (at JHAS insistence) on the 380 even though they have their own Eng dept.

This was done to secure a second bidder as SIA, HAECO and Lufthansa Technics flew the coop not wishing to be part of a Union bashing exercise (I suspect running the gauntlet of another publicity campaign was to much for SIA and LT, remember Staples and Lockwire).

For those not aware PG sits on both QF and Leightons (owners of JHAS)

I swear this reads like a Tom Clancy novel, I hope to god it's fiction

[Romulus]

No reply here yet either Romulus. (although its only been 4 weeks out of your stipulated 6 week response time).

Did I stipulate 6 weeks? Can't recall that but if so please bear with us as it might be longer due to volume of applications.


A courtesy email saying that "we have received your application" wouldn't go astray so that I know you HAVE received it and are still considering it(or not as the case may be).

Everything that goes to our website SHOULD get that immediately. Will check.


When are you expecting a decision from QF as to the outcome of the 380 bid?

Currently we're running a program in parallel to ACS, decision points last well into the new year so unless either of us screw it up badly (can't see that happening from either party) this will be running for several months at least.


If you are successful, how many people will you be looking for and how soon will you be putting people on after a decision is made(assuming you win the bid)?

Total team exceeds 70.

We're employing people now which is partly why it takes so long to get back to you - we're trying to do a thorough job with contingency plans for not winning the 380 work so we try to ensure the people we put on have licences for the longer term regardless, we will NOT hire people now only to tell them "sorry, didn't win" at some later date. In some ways that's a hard policy but ultimately we believe it to be the fairest as it gives no false expectations.

[Romulus]

Word on the bid should be in the mail

QF LAMEs in Syd and Rom, you could help out here

Both Qantas Engineering and JHAS are training I'm told or organising training without either getting the bid.

The big rumours are that QF airways paid for JHAS training (at JHAS insistence) on the 380 even though they have their own Eng dept.

This was done to secure a second bidder as SIA, HAECO and Lufthansa Technics flew the coop not wishing to be part of a Union bashing exercise (I suspect running the gauntlet of another publicity campaign was to much for SIA and LT, remember Staples and Lockwire).

Incorrect.


For those not aware PG sits on both QF and Leightons (owners of JHAS)


Correct. And fully disclosed. PG has no connection with JHAS in any operational sense.

And if you dig deeper Wal King sits on some other boards. Check out those links and see where they lead you.


I swear this reads like a Tom Clancy novel, I hope to god it's fiction

It's all fiction in the end. Business is a small world, paths cross. So be it.

[satos]

Everything that goes to our website SHOULD get that immediately. Will check.I think numbskull means the contact email address which I have also several times applied thru but never received a reply back from her.
The question i want to ask is "Does she exist".

[domo]

Total team exceeds 70.

really acs have a slightly different number

[Redstone]

Decision expected by "Supply Chain" next March. ACS would prefer to move on the bid now however I am told JHAS pushed for later, they don't want to be left with a load of licences they can't use.

A team of 70, interesting. Initially the fleet will consist of four a/c, assuming some travelling work that will still leave quite a few engineers not required for periods of time that the big bus is away from port. Does "flexible rostering" ring any bells? Romulus does the jhas t&c mean a bloke may be sent home clocked off after the a/c departs and then be required to return 2 hours later to clock back on when the next one arrives?

Q may be looking at split shifts? You do your 8 hour day but it is split into two lots of 4 hours with a sizable break inbetween......

Read the contracts carefully boys.

[Romulus]

I think numbskull means the contact email address http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?emailimage=521fa7c1ac407764fadd9eab8e52a79b which I have also several times applied thru but never received a reply back from her.
The question i want to ask is "Does she exist".

Jen does indeed exist and is an incredibly task focussed person. Will check with her tomorrow when I'm on site again as to status of replies.

[Romulus]

really acs have a slightly different number

Not surprising really. Probably depends on the pointat which the measure is taken - one aircraft, 5 aircraft, 10 or the full 20 and how many ports are factored into the flight roster etc. Without knowing the canditions surrounding the numbers it's pretty hard to make a comparison.

And sorry but no, I'm not going to give away what's behind the numbers I provided.

[Romulus]

Decision expected by "Supply Chain" next March. ACS would prefer to move on the bid now however I am told JHAS pushed for later, they don't want to be left with a load of licences they can't use.

Then you got told wrong. Given our state of prep vs the state we believe ACS to be in the longer the decision the more two factors that come into play work against us:

1. ACS can catch up on some of the alternative solutions we have suggested
2. Time delays benefit ACS from a risk viewpoint as they can ultimately stall for time until it is too late to do anything else



A team of 70, interesting. Initially the fleet will consist of four a/c, assuming some travelling work that will still leave quite a few engineers not required for periods of time that the big bus is away from port. Does "flexible rostering" ring any bells? Romulus does the jhas t&c mean a bloke may be sent home clocked off after the a/c departs and then be required to return 2 hours later to clock back on when the next one arrives?

Yes but unlikely. How we utilise that downtime is a key element of our proposal.

And bear in mind that we pay salaries not hourly rates. So if there's 2 hours between duties then you're free to go and do whatever you like (provided you remain in a condition to complete later duties) so it's up to YOU whether you go home or not. You still get paid the same but all of a sudden you have control of your downtime. No need to hang around the airport - go jogging, driving, shopping, play with the kids, play golf for all we care.

Of course, if you want to stay on site then that's your call.

Either way you get the same salary for the week.



Q may be looking at split shifts? You do your 8 hour day but it is split into two lots of 4 hours with a sizable break inbetween......

Read the contracts carefully boys.

Ours is pretty clear. Get the job done and we don't mind how you structure your day to best meet your own needs.

[chemical alli]

jha interview a cake walk from all accounts.very little technical q&a just alot of would you be willing and how much would they have to pay.more interested if and what exotics you have ,so i guess their hedging if the 380 falls through its can we now base you in mel or anywhere else ? nice and professional hr type and yes jenny cheeseman does exist.

if any one interested pay up to 150k depending on your bargaining skills

[Romulus]

jha interview a cake walk from all accounts.very little technical q&a

Checked via background reference checking prior to asking you in for an interview. If you don't pass that hurdle you don't get a look in. Interview is more to try and determine how you will fit with a team, ensure that you know what you're committing to etc.

Let's face it, Jenny or anyone else in HR or me or pretty much anyone asking you techo questions is a complete waste of time, anybody can BS their way through an interview. Equally if you try to BS your way through on what you're willing to do then we have a record of it.


just alot of would you be willing and how much would they have to pay.more interested if and what exotics you have ,so i guess their hedging if the 380 falls through its can we now base you in mel or anywhere else ?


Pretty much nailed it there CA. If we're going to build a team then we need to try and ensure people are relatively happy, that their needs are met and above all else that they know what they are committing to.


nice and professional hr type and yes jenny cheeseman does exist.

Ah, another Jen fanboy....


if any one interested pay up to 150k depending on your bargaining skills

Bear in mind that you'll be working frigging hard and long hours to get that level of salary. Please be under no misapprehension there - you will bust your arse to get that inc shifts, pub hols etc.

[chemical alli]

too true romulus about asking tech q&a also i think i STATED PAY UP TOO 150K not actual but all in all a not so tell us a time when type interview more a what and where .just posting some info that many may not know.

[Torqueman]

Romulus
Interview is more to try and determine how you will fit with a team

Romulus,

Just interested to know whether that includes getting the thumbs up :ok: from the ingrates that continue to work there who are more concerned about losing their positions to people who they know to be more qualified and better at their jobs than they are?

From what I am hearing, it's becoming a, 'team', that does not want to fit in with anyone else. While you go to great lengths to promote your welcoming and positive culture, there are other people going to great lengths to muddy the waters.

Some people are walking away from your company with a very bitter taste in their mouths, who would otherwise be great assets. :ouch:

I think I see some rot forming. :suspect:

[No SAR No Details]

And bear in mind that we pay salaries not hourly rates. So if there's 2 hours between duties then you're free to go and do whatever you like (provided you remain in a condition to complete later duties) so it's up to YOU whether you go home or not. You still get paid the same but all of a sudden you have control of your downtime. No need to hang around the airport - go jogging, driving, shopping, play with the kids, play golf for all we care.
Of course, if you want to stay on site then that's your call.
Either way you get the same salary for the week.
And then....wait for it ......... you get told you haven't worked enough hours this week and we need you on saturday to make up for the hours we didn't roster you on for during the week.
You can stay on site but you wont be racking up the required hours.
But it all sounds sooooo good, go shopping, see the kids, see the wife, surfiing, horse riding (starting to sound like a tampon ad) all this in a 2 to 4 hr break between shifts whilst the kids are at school and the wifes at work.
Dont expect to see them on what you thought was going to be your day off.

[Romulus]

Just interested to know whether that includes getting the thumbs up :ok: from the ingrates

Ingrates?

Well how do I respond to that? Do I tell you to just **** off? Do I tell you not to bother applying given you clearly are a well balanced chap with a chip on each shoulder?

Or do I just wander on by.

I'm looking for the middle ground. Our guys aren't perfect but I'll back their attitude against anything in QF or JQ or wherever. We'll muck in and do what needs to be done, be in no doubt that is what is expected. Prima donnas need not apply.


that continue to work there who are more concerned about losing their positions to people who they know to be more qualified and better at their jobs than they are?


Sometimes luck plays a part. And if there are so many better qualified people who want these jobs why didn't they appear when teh company was AAES and could have desperately used these advanced skills you think these people have?

Or is it that they now want in because JHAS is a fully financed company?

I realise this is a major change for some but we're after a good, positive attitude of getting the job done and doing it well. Long as teh guys can do the job that attitude is worth ten guys who may be technically brilliant but bitch and moan all day.

I'm happy with the guys we have, I'm not saying they're perfect (nor do I claim that for myself) but I'll take them ahead of the whiners any day. Hard part now is maintaining a crew who'll keep the positive attitude going as we add a lot of new people.



From what I am hearing, it's becoming a, 'team', that does not want to fit in with anyone else.


Same with migration - the AAES guys did a whole lot of multiskilling and took on flexible work arrangements to keep themselves going. That same flexibility helps us take on SIAEC and yes, ACS. The guys have had 5 years of not knowing when the last paycheck was coming in, now that they're JHAS they're entitled, in my opinion, to ask that any new team members adopt a similar working attitude. Why? Because they know as well as anyone that if we stick to the old practices then SIAEC and the like will end up with everything.

Pretty much every other industry has gone through it, AAES/JHAS has gone through it. Not pleasant but they have come out the other side tougher, fitter and leaner than the opposition.

And that means competitive advantage. I'll back our guys against all comers.

Would your management do the same?


While you go to great lengths to promote your welcoming and positive culture, there are other people going to great lengths to muddy the waters.

Feel free to post some specific examples rather than just hurling mud at our guys.

Or alternatively, just remain the mouth that you are.


Some people are walking away from your company with a very bitter taste in their mouths, who would otherwise be great assets. :ouch:


Except they clearly wouldn't be. Anyone who isn't prepared to speak up (in a logical, constructive manner) for themselves is not worth having.

If a LAME won't speak up for his concerns how can I know that he will speak up if a cockup occurs?

These people you speak of may be great assets in a QF environment, they may be great assets somewhere else. But if they don't have teh spine to stand up and be counted then they're not great assets to us.


I think I see some rot forming. :suspect:

Wishful thinking!

[Romulus]

And then....wait for it ......... you get told you haven't worked enough hours this week and we need you on saturday to make up for the hours we didn't roster you on for during the week.

Bap Bow!

Try again.

Hours are annualised, a weekly cycle is meaningless. When we first started the concern amongst the guys was that there wasn't enough work to meet their annual total. So for the first 6 weeks we lost plenty as we paid people when we had no work in the hangar so it cuts both ways.

Equally there are timelines for call in notice periods, and yes, if there's an emergency we expect people to muck in and get it done at wierd hours if necessary.


You can stay on site but you wont be racking up the required hours.
But it all sounds sooooo good, go shopping, see the kids, see the wife, surfiing, horse riding (starting to sound like a tampon ad) all this in a 2 to 4 hr break between shifts whilst the kids are at school and the wifes at work.

Yep. Of course, if you prefer you can have a fully free week when all the jobs disappear to Singapore.

I readily agree that a salaried arrangemnt isn't for everybody, feel free to apply if it works for you, if it doesn't then don't worry, plenty of other places work the old way.


Dont expect to see them on what you thought was going to be your day off.

Barring a bucketload of emergency work that just isn't going to happen.

It's amazing how you just have to focus on the negative. Sure, there are some but overall the positives are much greater. And as for seeing wife and kids on days off then YOU have the flexibility to go to school open days, concerts, whatever simply by oragnising with your team to ensure coverage is there. Of course, once your wife learns of this you won't have the excuse of "I have to work" any longer.

Imagine that, a 2 way street. My belief is that this will help us win a lot of work and bring it back into the country. And I don't have a problem with that.

[satos]

Checked via background reference checking prior to asking you in for an interview. If you don't pass that hurdle you don't get a look in.Romulus,hypothetical question for ya.What if someone applying for a job at JHG had a personal disagreement in the past with one of your current employees and that employee now dislikes this applicant.
When you do you 'so called' background checks and ask your employees what you think of this applicant and one of them says he is no good (due to a personal matter which happened in the past) do you go by his word or have you got other processes in place to deal with this matter.I'd hate to see someone loosing a job because of this.

[Romulus]

i think i STATED PAY UP TOO 150K not actual but all in all

Yep, I just wanted to be very clear that to be on those $ it's a very demanding work environment. We're happy to pay for the flexibility, equally we're very clear that we have no problems calling on people to provide required coverage.

[Romulus]

Romulus,hypothetical question for ya.What if someone applying for a job at JHG had a personal disagreement in the past with one of your current employees and that employee now dislikes this applicant.


When you do you 'so called' background checks and ask your employees what you think of this applicant and one of them says he is no good (due to a personal matter which happened in the past) do you go by his word or have you got other processes in place to deal with this matter.I'd hate to see someone loosing a job because of this.

Depends on what the matter is. If there's a history of violent behaviour for instance then that's an automatic no. If there's a history of arguments based around logic or standards or somesuch then that's not a problem.

It's not as simple as the old "black ball" method, if someone suggests we don't employ a person then they need to be able to justify their reasons. Personality clash isn't a valid reason, heck, if that was a problem I wouldn't be here....

In some ways it's subjective, that's the problem of dealing with people, very rarely are any of us totally consistent. Very easy to bluff me or Jenny or anyone in an interview, much harder to have bluffed the guys and the entire industry during your entire career.

[satos]

Thanks romulus for answering the question.
Cheers.

[chemical alli]

hey romulus and all the guys and girls posting about jha, including my good self, how about if we want to continue with the two and throw of negatives and positives we start a new thread titled. (work place reform jha style) then romulus can continue to post how great jha is and all those that dont work there and have no idea can slander until the cows come home.then this thread can get back to 380 outsourced maintenace issues ,instead of nz winglet conversions

[Torqueman]

Originally posted by Romulus

Ingrates?

Well how do I respond to that? Do I tell you to just **** off? Do I tell you not to bother applying given you clearly are a well balanced chap with a chip on each shoulder?

Let me qualify my previous statements and clarify a few things.

I have not applied for a position to your company.

I am really disappointed for those who did and have been treated in this fashion.

I think it is a low act from the guys on the floor to have sunk their chances at a future with your company for none other than personal/childish reasons. Luck had nothing to do with it.

I think it speaks poorly of the management for allowing it to happen.

That's my opinion. Like it or leave it.

Oh and by the way I am speaking up and trying to inform you of something which you may not be aware of.

I am quite happy with my current employment. They're not perfect either. But I let them know too.

Sorry to have offended you. Not my intention.

I was trying to point out what a good culture you were trying to manifest there. Don't let other people bring your work undone.

[Romulus]

Let me qualify my previous statements and clarify a few things.

<snip>

I think it is a low act from the guys on the floor to have sunk their chances at a future with your company for none other than personal/childish reasons. Luck had nothing to do with it.

I think it speaks poorly of the management for allowing it to happen.

<snip>

Oh and by the way I am speaking up and trying to inform you of something which you may not be aware of.

<snip>



OK, I'll bit and say I'm concerned. Feel free to PM me some details and I'll check it out. Have to say I can't see it myself and I will be more than a little unhappy if this proves to be the case. Equally there's nothing I can do without information, please either pass on, or ask others to pass on, details of such discrimination.

[NAS1801]

Guys,

since most threads that bring up the subject of JHAS turn into a bashing, I posted a new thread...

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?p=3685868

If you work for JHAS, please go to that thread and give us an honest report on how you feel about working for JHAS.

If you have negative stuff to say, keep it elsewhere.

[satos]

If you have negative stuff to say, keep it elsewhere.
Talk about hijacking a thread.The questions most people have been asking romulus are perfectly legit.He has done his best to answer most of them except for JHAS replying back to applicants regarding their applications.Most companies I have applied for jobs in the past have replied back quickly except JHAS.Is it that hard to send an email reply that your application has been received.I wouldn't think so.

[NAS1801]

read carefuly.

I was refering to the thread that I started calling for JHAS employees to give us their version of events. I think they are better positioned than Qantas staff to tell us what things are like at JHAS.... don't you think so?

By all means, keep the negative stuff going in this old thread!

[Big Unit]

Rumour has it, QF to start training for a380 monday week. Only initially training approx 5 people (supervisor level and up) and will be working in conjunction with john holland (including john holland ame's). Can u shed any light on this Romulus?

The hits just keep on coming.....:mad:

[domo]

Read a circular from "M" that acs has droped some customer terminal aircrat to concertrate on amoung other things A380

romulus some operators require ground handling in sydney

[LME-400]

Is this a JH advertisement... http://seek.com.au/users/apply/index.ascx?JobID=10992674&cid=jobmail

LAMEs - Avionics required for the new A380 aircraft. Based in Sydney, make history and be part of a team working with the latest technology.

[Romulus]

Guys,

since most threads that bring up the subject of JHAS turn into a bashing,


Bashing?

Nah, not yet. Sometimes the only way to get to the heart of things is to have a system that everyone knows is truly anonymous. Then the trick becomes sorting the BS from the fact. That's the hard bit.




I posted a new thread...

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?p=3685868

If you work for JHAS, please go to that thread and give us an honest report on how you feel about working for JHAS.

If you have negative stuff to say, keep it elsewhere.

Well, I'm happy to answer questions (within limits) anywhere. Would you prefer I stay out of that thread? LEt me know, or alternatively if people want to include something along the lines of "R please answer this" I'll do my best.


http://www.pprune.org/forums/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif http://www.pprune.org/forums/images/buttons/report.gif (http://www.pprune.org/forums/report.php?p=3685875)

[Romulus]

The questions most people have been asking romulus are perfectly legit.

Agreed.


He has done his best to answer most of them except for JHAS replying back to applicants regarding their applications.Most companies I have applied for jobs in the past have replied back quickly except JHAS.Is it that hard to send an email reply that your application has been received.I wouldn't think so.

Much as I hate to say it, these days with the volume of internet responses and the mass posting of resumes in a speculative manner most recruiters don't even bother with that much.

And I agree that it's wrong.

Jenny has an updated process in place, all emails will be requested to go to a new dedicated inbox (again, my fault this wasn't done earlier, the volume of applications has been way beyond my expectations) which will mean that rather than Jenny sorting through her email and answering emails directly the entire HR team will have access and the ability to respond.

That SHOULD help with response times, at least for the initial response.

[NAS1801]

Romulus, the whole point is that there are quite a few people here posting a lot of things that you yourself dismiss as not true.

what some of us would like to see, are some facts from the people on the floor.

No offense Romulus, but you are based in the office. We are engineers and it would be great to get some reports from JHAS engineers.

I am not hijacking any threads... I have simply started one for us to hear from the guys who would best be able to give us the story of how things are.

[Romulus]

Rumour has it, QF to start training for a380 monday week. Only initially training approx 5 people (supervisor level and up) and will be working in conjunction with john holland (including john holland ame's). Can u shed any light on this Romulus?

Can't think of anything on the schedule that meets this description. Could be wrong, we have meetings all over the place but I wouldn't describe any of them as training.

[Romulus]

Read a circular from "M" that acs has droped some customer terminal aircrat to concertrate on amoung other things A380

romulus some operators require ground handling in sydney

Makes my life easy.

Assuming this is correct somebody just gave me the easiest possible answer to the obvious interview question of "what happens if you don't win A380 work?".

Looks like we'll be taking on more Sydney LAMEs. If you're still waiting to finalise a decision, soon as you know who is dropped and the relevant types and if you fit the profile to look after them then get the application in ASAP.

[Romulus]

Is this a JH advertisement... http://seek.com.au/users/apply/index...74&cid=jobmail (http://seek.com.au/users/apply/index.ascx?JobID=10992674&cid=jobmail)

Quote:
LAMEs - Avionics required for the new A380 aircraft. Based in Sydney, make history and be part of a team working with the latest technology.



My guess would be yes.

[Romulus]

Romulus, the whole point is that there are quite a few people here posting a lot of things that you yourself dismiss as not true.

what some of us would like to see, are some facts from the people on the floor.

Fair call.

[Short_Circuit]

Can anyone who has done their A380 interview tell me if it is worth

wasting my time showing up for my interview? Have heard so many

negatives (not in detail, however) just does not seem worth the stress.:confused:

S_cct

[The Bungeyed Bandit]

Let's throw another log on the bonfire. Phone calls from QF going out now to those who applied the LAX A380 job as advertised in the Australian 2 months ago to go for their interviews. When asked about the ACS A380 Team interviews the caller said they have nothing to do with those and are completely separate. As usual, it appears different groups within QF Engineering (ACS A380 bid team, Line Maint Management,ACS Management, Light House Group, Lean Sigma, Supply Chain) are not talking to each other and rowing their own boats in different directions. Is it any wonder the dispatch reliabilty has gone down the gurgler.

On another note - How can Supply Chain dictate to Engineering the conditions of the A380 Maintenance and who will do it. I would of thought Supply Chain should be Engineering's customer, not the other way around!

[The Black Panther]

Similar pattern? Jobs for Asia were advertised earlier this year as 'EIO for working for us'. Turned out to be Parc Aviation working for Pacific Airlines in Vietnam (A Jetstar investment GD is behind). Slowly but surely they are washing there hands of us.

[1746]

Bungeyed - you sure seem to be able to see a very obvious point for one whose moniker suggests otherwise!:D:D:D:D
It just illustrates DC's consistant performance!:mad::mad::mad:

[company_spy]

It is becoming quite patently clear that DC couldn't organise a pi$$up in a brewery.

There is something rotten in the state of Denmark :zzz:

[The Mr Fixit]

Hot off the pressess

A380 deal is off, QF HR have made some monumental f-up :eek:

Anyone know anything more ? :confused:

[Redstone]

Selection criteria seems to have been applied on a face fit basis, which was always going to be the case. May have something to do with that, some grievances may have been lodged......

[domo]

maybe the whole thing was set up to fail so acs would not get the work but it turns out to be the unions fault. might bring about alaea regime change and bring back the old guard which the company felt easier to deal with

[Redstone]

I don't think it would make any difference domo, even if the assn came out and said "all bets are off" there would still be blokes willing to sign on the dotted....... regardless.

[whataloadofrubbish]

"Hot off the pressess
A380 deal is off, QF HR have made some monumental f-up
Anyone know anything more ? "


Appologies for my ignorance Mr Fixit, but care to elaborate on this quote? :rolleyes:

[Millet Fanger]

There was at least one interviewed who only has airframe ratings, no cross trade basics, no MA's, no Airbus exposure, no A380 exposure. He is flexible though, fits under a desk easily. Has some experience signing out of category.

A complaint has been lodged re his selection over others who meet all essential and most ideal requirements.

[domo]

Lets be kind guys, not his fault he is an overachiever

[VBA Engineer]

Hey Romulus,

When do you announce your Brisbane acquisition?

[Romulus]

Hey Romulus,

When do you announce your Brisbane acquisition?

Perhaps when we make one.

Anything in particular come to mind?

[wingers]

Romulus...you cant win...why bother posting...it really makes you look like kevin rudd.... all hands.....you labour voters work it out

Romulus...you are disengaging by engaging as you do.... by posting as you do you have you only hurt yourself...i was amazed at your earlier posts on another thread about your business...you bagged QF yet you expect to compete with them...

Like it or not you are a middle ageded ego maniac..who fluffs it up here on this site...you might be a good manager but your blatant need to post here says it all....

Good managers let their actions do the talking ...word gets around...your constant diatribe and feel good retoric (be it right or wrong) reeks on a self centered ego and or desperation ...i understand...this may be your last chance to impress your bosss at JH....bottom line you wont.....EBIT etc

[domo]

a bit harsh wingers at least Romulus is here posting, informing people where do your uber mangers post?, I have never heard a JHS person post a bad thing about Romulus and they know he posts here,

[Bolty McBolt]

I have never heard a JHS person post a bad thing about Romulus and they know he posts here,

Probably a good reason for that and not all good.
Ask around at Bexley and you will hear plenty about JHAS and guys needing support..

I am not saying I know JHAS is a bad place to work or better than my place of work.
One thing I do know from all the people I know whom work for different airlines around the world. You end up working for the same kind of people and its the same style of management everywhere.
And well all know what means. Engineering is a very expensive inconvenience and will be treated as such.

[Romulus]

Romulus...you cant win...why bother posting...it really makes you look like kevin rudd.... all hands.....you labour voters work it out

Perhaps. But the eternal struggle is a recurring theme in all good tragedy so perhaps I'm just a tragic.


Romulus...you are disengaging by engaging as you do.... by posting as you do you have you only hurt yourself...


Perhaps. Perhaps not.

My basic theory is that there's no such thing as over communication and whilst that can be a pain in the arse for both sides people are free not to read posts here or talk to me on site.

Equally I'll try an give people as much time as I can to meet their expectations of communication.

Feel free not to talk to me if I offend you that much.



i was amazed at your earlier posts on another thread about your business...you bagged QF yet you expect to compete with them...

Can't say I think I have ever "bagged" Qantas, I think we can do things differently, I honestly think we can do things more efficiently and we can actually grow the aviation maintenance/engineering business in Australia and drag back some of the overseas work.

That means change, much of which the former Ansett guys took up on their own pre the JH purchase. We bring some external engineering thoughts and commercality due to the diversity of our business whereas aviation engineers have, by definition, only seen what goes on in a very isolated part of the market. That's not a harsh thing to say, it's just the reality that in the wider engineering world that there are some very different thoughts and methods of doing things.



Like it or not you are a middle ageded ego maniac..


well at least you did't call me old!


who fluffs it up here on this site...


Feel free to talk to me and I'll even make the coffee. Plenty of others do and I don't think anyone has suffered as a result of it.



you might be a good manager but your blatant need to post here says it all....

Blatant need? I appreciate your concern for my mental health but I suspect your Psych101 is a little outdated. I enjoy reading here, it gives me a certain opinion, it gives me an insight into some key concerns. Equally I don't automatically believe what is said here, I'll do my own investigation.


Good managers let their actions do the talking ...word gets around...your constant diatribe and feel good retoric (be it right or wrong) reeks on a self centered ego and or desperation


Oh dear. Diatribe? Feel good rhetoric?

I'm so hurt.

Or perhaps not.

Maybe you need to examine your own insecurities?



...i understand...this may be your last chance to impress your bosss at JH


Ah, if only you knew. I blew the chance to be a big cheese a long time ago, definitely too opinionated and a thorough pain in the arse, permanently branded "heretic" etc.

So be it, that's who I am, I can live with the fact and with myself. I'll never be David Cox, equally as a result I get to do a lot of stuff simply because it appeals to me and then the more normal corporate types geet to review my thoughts and if they like it we go from there.

Most of my concepts get binned. So be it, 1 in 10 make it and we have a lot of fun.

And yes, I actually really enjoy my time on the floor at JHAS. Feel free to walk off if you don't like me, I'd prefer you discuss the issues but I also accept that isn't the way everyone likes it.


....bottom line you wont.....EBIT etc


maybe, maybe not.

* Edited to clear up my quote tags

[Romulus]

a bit harsh wingers at least Romulus is here posting, informing people where do your uber mangers post?,

If only I was an uber manager.....


I have never heard a JHS person post a bad thing about Romulus and they know he posts here,

Hopefully most of them talk to me on site, plenty do and by now it should be understood that in confidence means in confidence. I've had a couple of full on frank discussions with people and there have been no recriminations. A person who stands up for themself in a logical and sensible manner is worth plenty.

I'm certainly no agony aunt, and I'm not going to go all touchy feely about everything, equally there's a whole industry I am just starting to understand and I have always found that the operational team are the best place to get informed. We've got plenty to do if we're going to be successful and the only way I know to do that is to talk to anyone who wants information.

Just my opinion, feel free to tell me I'm wrong.

* Edited to clear up errors in my quote tags

[Romulus]

Probably a good reason for that and not all good.

Feel free to go into more details Bolty.



Ask around at Bexley and you will hear plenty about JHAS and guys needing support..

Again, feel free to go with details.

One of the problems with broad assertions backed up by, well, nothing in this particular case, is that nothing can be done about it.


Engineering is a very expensive inconvenience and will be treated as such.

True.

But how much more expensive is poor quality engineering?

That's why we're never going to be the cheapest in up front price, we'll compete on life cycle costs.

[Romulus]

Looks like you might be awarded the contract by default Romulus. Its seems the QE tender is now in disarray.

OK, I'll bite, my interest is piqued (bet you didn't think that would happen..... MUCH).

What's the goss?

[numbskull]

Romulus you MAY be able to "do things more efficiently" than Qantas in the long term. In the short term I believe you have no hope.

The Qantas Base Maintenance that I once new could achieve anything and, all things being equal, I would back their quality AND turntime against any MRO in the world.

That quality and turntime is definetely deteriorating in the last few years. However that is not the fault of the workers at the coal face but is a calculated decision by management to cut costs.

I have in depth knowledge of the engineering work practices of Qantas(20 yrs worth) and for the last 18 months I have seen how other companies engineering services operate in a different (but similiar) industry. I'm talking about companies like Thales, Rolls-Royce, Kellog Brown & Root, Honeywell.

I can assure you that Qantas of 5 years ago was way more efficient than these companies in my experience and even now with numerous quality and turn time issues QF would still probably s$%t on them.

I do appreciate your informative posts. It is refreshing to see a manager communicating effectively.

However, I have still not received an email to say that you have even received my application (2 now the first one over 5 weeks ago). It appears that your organisation operates at the same glacial speed as other large companies such as QF,Thales, Rolls-Royce, Kellog Brown & Root, Honeywell etc.

Maybe you could show us some of the JHAS effeciency and flexibility and post a little bit less on PPrune and help Jenny out with the job application replies.

[lucky7]

I've got it...How about Romulus work for QF engineering Management? That way everyone will be "Happy"..my two cents worth.:ok::)

[Romulus]

Romulus you MAY be able to "do things more efficiently" than Qantas in the long term. In the short term I believe you have no hope.

Based on my understanding of block hour costs and the difference between VB and QF I beg to differ. That's not to be argumentative, that's to apply my no BS belief.

But then, I guess that's my job.


That quality and turntime is definetely deteriorating in the last few years.


So perhaps we can be more efficient....


However that is not the fault of the workers at the coal face but is a calculated decision by management to cut costs.


Based on the block hour costs it seems there's less cost cutting than you would think.


I can assure you that Qantas of 5 years ago was way more efficient than these companies in my experience and even now with numerous quality and turn time issues QF would still probably s$%t on them.


You may not like me saying it but the hard figures say something very different. That's not to be confrontational, that's to give you a bit of insight into how we came to our decision to go with the AAES opportunity


I do appreciate your informative posts. It is refreshing to see a manager communicating effectively.


Well, effective to some, Wingers seems to think it's a waste....


However, I have still not received an email to say that you have even received my application (2 now the first one over 5 weeks ago). It appears that your organisation operates at the same glacial speed as other large companies such as QF,Thales, Rolls-Royce, Kellog Brown & Root, Honeywell etc.

Maybe you could show us some of the JHAS effeciency and flexibility and post a little bit less on PPrune and help Jenny out with the job application replies.

Will check it out.

[Romulus]

I've got it...How about Romulus work for QF engineering Management? That way everyone will be "Happy"..my two cents worth.:ok::)

Coz I'd probably be no better than your current guys, I'd get frustrated and you'd all hate me.

Or something like that.

:)

Plus I'd probably take the easy option and outsource the whole lot to JHAS on day 1 then go off and play golf whilst counting my millions in incentive payments.....

[numbskull]

Romulus, I have no idea what "Block hour costs" are.

But if QF's block hour costs are not coming down and they are having turn time and quality issues (where they weren't previously), then the only ones to blame are the management(who predominately have little Line or Heavy Maintenance experience).

More likely they are playing with the numbers to get the outcome they want. A good accountant can turn a $100M profit into a $100M loss (just ask James Packer).

It looks to me like QF management are busting their arse to outsource to you (probably to get their incentive bonuses as you say). They just need to justify it to the general public and the only way they can do that is to blame unions/high costs etc(whether that is the case or not is immaterial)

Anyway good luck when you win the contract. It will be challenging introducing a new type and I'm sure QF will expect compensation for any shortcomings in performance KPI's.

[Romulus]

Romulus, I have no idea what "Block hour costs" are.

Effectively it is similar to the maintenance cost per flight hour excpet it uses block hours which reflect the point at which chocks are pulled away to the point they are put in place at the destination. Apparently the concept is to encompass taxi time and a few other items in order to prevent manipulation of data by using actually flight hours.

Without getting in to too much detail that I am not prepared to put out in public QF is running at a seriously higher cost than their competitors.



But if QF's block hour costs are not coming down and they are having turn time and quality issues (where they weren't previously), then the only ones to blame are the management(who predominately have little Line or Heavy Maintenance experience).

As a general concept I don't disagree with you, after all, managers are there to well, manage. Yes they need to work on a whole raft of issues,and yes the front line troops get the blame, and again without trying to be confrontational but keep in line with the no BS communications policy, there is some truth in that but the majority of the issue is management's responsibility.


More likely they are playing with the numbers to get the outcome they want. A good accountant can turn a $100M profit into a $100M loss (just ask James Packer).

well, that's the common perception anyway. Good accountants can only do what's allowed by law. And that's financial accounting. Management accounting for the purposes of running a business is certainly more flexible as there are no external reproting requirements, that allows specific allocations to be made to cover events (eg how do you allocate overheads to each individual activity or cost centre or whatever) which in turn allows a sensible activity based costing model to be prepared.

Then there needs to be an apples v apples comparison made (to the best of one's ability).


It looks to me like QF management are busting their arse to outsource to you

I'd be happy, they're certainly busting our balls at the moment.


(probably to get their incentive bonuses as you say). They just need to justify it to the general public and the only way they can do that is to blame unions/high costs etc(whether that is the case or not is immaterial)


Sooner or later the truth usually outs.


Anyway good luck when you win the contract. It will be challenging introducing a new type and I'm sure QF will expect compensation for any shortcomings in performance KPI's.

And we'll expect a reward for outperformance so the question, as usual, comes down to where do we set the bencmark. Then we back our guys and our processes to deliver.

[Flugzeugmechaniker]

Are JHAS still recruiting? I have a B1 and am currently looking for a change in employment.

[Redstone]

Quote:
Romulus, I have no idea what "Block hour costs" are.

Effectively it is similar to the maintenance cost per flight hour excpet it uses block hours which reflect the point at which chocks are pulled away to the point they are put in place at the destination. Apparently the concept is to encompass taxi time and a few other items in order to prevent manipulation of data by using actually flight hours.

Without getting in to too much detail that I am not prepared to put out in public QF is running at a seriously higher cost than their competitors.
Fleet age must impact on this figure. I assume that if you compare Qf to VB you should only use 737NG fleets (to keep an apples/apples comparison) . The older the beast the more dollar hungry they become to maintain.

[satos]

Romulus
Will check it out.You sound like a broken record when you say that.

[Romulus]

Fleet age must impact on this figure. I assume that if you compare Qf to VB you should only use 737NG fleets (to keep an apples/apples comparison) . The older the beast the more dollar hungry they become to maintain.

Yep. The really good thing about 73 fleets is that there is a huge amount of performance data available for them. Given the predicatability of their maintenance demand algorithms can be developed to quite accurately predict what will be required across the entire fleet (law of averages etc).

[Romulus]

Quote:
Romulus
Will check it out.
You sound like a broken record when you say that.

Yep. And as some can attest I have followed through whenever the information has been provided.

Equally confidences are respected so I'm not going to blather about looking up Fred Nerk's CV and telling all of pprune where his application is up to.

Feel free to believe or disbelieve as you see fit.

[mavrik1]

Romulus,
Since Mel will be your new Maint Hub. Are you guys looking to pick up 3rd party work in the International line Maint, arena in Melbourne as well. Have you researched your competition your up against apart from QF
once you have established ie, Cathay Pacific, AMSA/SIA, Emirates Engineering. All with Extreme low cost base and high output.

[Romulus]

Romulus,
Since Mel will be your new Maint Hub. Are you guys looking to pick up 3rd party work in the International line Maint, arena in Melbourne as well. Have you researched your competition your up against apart from QF
once you have established ie, Cathay Pacific, AMSA/SIA, Emirates Engineering. All with Extreme low cost base and high output.

Yes on all coutns, the problem for the other guys is that they need volume to occupy the guys or costs get driven up. If you employ somebody 8 hours a day and they look after 3 aircraft visits then you have a lot of unproductive time. If you've got a hangar where they can fill in the extra hours then you have a competitive advantage as you don't have the charge for all the downtime.

Given the way were structured we think we can take good advantage of that and win teh work.

Of course, as Wingers puts it, I can't win. SO perhaps I won't be able to....


:)

[mavrik1]

There is a way you could get all there work secure with JHAS overnight, wouldn't you like to know. I know!

[TheHoff]

Hey Romulus,

How's recruiting going for Tiger's line maintanance? Are you planning on having LAME's based at other ports yet to cover there turnarounds or will you have flying spanners out of Melbourne? Also if and when you get the A380 line work how do you plan on keeping the guy's occupied at ports like Brissy and Sydney if they only have 1 or 2 aircraft a day?

Keep up the good work.

[wingers]

he is already doing it...why do you think he was mentioning how QF management are demanding...he will form part of their WEDGE...straight between any negotiations....it is so obvious that it is funny...by the way what is JH track record with EBA's, are there any particular instances that are similar to todays environment...mmmm let me see...or will i wait for ROM to clarify....please outline JH previous EBA form

[wingers]

Smart negotiators use leverage...i cannot see any leverage...in fact the battle is lost ..... this simple 380 negotiation will result in victory, but to who???.....the EBA will be a non event...and later there will be many questions asked.......and it will be another non event

[domo]

Dave Cox said at the roadshow the eba was ready to sign. Can we believe him?.

[Romulus]

There is a way you could get all there work secure with JHAS overnight, wouldn't you like to know. I know!

Well I'll pay a success fee if there's any new business that comes as a result o fit.....

[Romulus]

Hey Romulus,

How's recruiting going for Tiger's line maintanance?


Always looking for A320 guys.


Are you planning on having LAME's based at other ports yet to cover there turnarounds or will you have flying spanners out of Melbourne?


Yet to be finalised with the customer, personally I like the idea of more permanent line stations with teh guys able to look after everything they need to and then we set the business development people to winning enough work to keep them busy,


Also if and when you get the A380 line work how do you plan on keeping the guy's occupied at ports like Brissy and Sydney if they only have 1 or 2 aircraft a day?


Brissy isn't on the list, Sydney, well there's a few other potential customers there now aren't there....


Keep up the good work.


Thanks, come on board some time soon.

[Romulus]

he is already doing it...why do you think he was mentioning how QF management are demanding...


oooh I sense conspiracy theory coming on...


he will form part of their WEDGE...

straight between any negotiations....

it is so obvious that it is funny...



...straight to paranoia...

For what it's worth QE mgt are fighting like hell to keep the work in house. If it was a pure logic argument we'd have a much stronger position right about now.



by the way what is JH track record with EBA's, are there any particular instances that are similar to todays environment...mmmm let me see...or will i wait for ROM to clarify....please outline JH previous EBA form

Pretty good all in all.

You think there's a skills shortgae in aviation - it's nothing compared to what we face in our main industries. So you can bet we aim to keep our people happy and encourage retention.

Equally we don't let the d*ckhead minority run the joint so if your question pertains to do we expect performance for what we deliver then the answer is yes.

Please bear in mind it would be much easier to give you a direct answer if you asked a direct question. But so often that isn't the hallmark of the coward, innuendo is more their style.

[wingers]

Are there any instances where JH has used tere power to influence EBA negotiations, with the result being more business to them....simple question yes or no...

[Romulus]

Are there any instances where JH has used tere power to influence EBA negotiations, with the result being more business to them....simple question yes or no...

We have in no way attempted to influence Qantas EBA negotiations.

Qantas management may well try and emulate what we are doing, that's a different story however.

[wingers]

Rom...can you answer the question, i never mentioned the Qantas EBA.... ..............it is a simple question Yes or No.........

[mavrik1]

I'd love to here some of JHAS's new business MISSION STATEMENTS. Would you enlighten us all roms?

[Romulus]

Rom...can you answer the question, i never mentioned the Qantas EBA.... ..............it is a simple question Yes or No.........

Well what is the question? Have we ever attempted to influence EBA's at all under any circumstances? Of course we have - our own. I figured that would be pretty obvious so I had to try and determine what you were asking so I made it very clear I answered in the context of Qantas.

So with another slight qualification: Have we ever attempted to influence anyone else's (i.e. non John Holland) EBA negotiations? No we have not.

[Romulus]

I'd love to here some of JHAS's new business MISSION STATEMENTS. Would you enlighten us all roms?

Will post Monday when back on site and will verify it's the latest.

For what it's worth I hate mission statements as a complete wank.

[northsteyne]

Good point,
The last time i sore M working was in modules 20 years ago, useless then.
M has had no experiance in base,line yet he is in charge.
I think all lame's should have a murray moment and just realize the guy is a f&&k w&t.
Just look at all the promotions in the last few years,
All you need now is a good response to 10 questions, none of which are technical,but as management say all LAME'S are equal,no need to know if you can do anything with your hands or your mind
All the good guys are leaving and will ed up with JETSTAR or JOHN HOLLAND and you are mistaken if you think QF will not give away work.

[northsteyne]

I guess you have applied for line maint before and failed,
go f&&k yourself

[Redstone]

What gives?

[QF22]

Will try to kickstart this thread.
Have just heard JHAS require a 5year/$100,000 bond for A380.
Me thinks a bit excessive.
By all accounts they think the A380 contract is nearly in the bag!

[Romulus]

Have just heard JHAS require a 5year/$100,000 bond for A380.
Me thinks a bit excessive.


In the words of our (probable) next PM - me too!


By all accounts they think the A380 contract is nearly in the bag!


Cheeky blighters "they" are not to inform me of the fact!

[QF22]

Welcome back, I have missed your input.
So you agree 5yrs/$100K is a bit excessive? I hope you can convince those at JHAS to reduce to 3 years max?
When I said they b4, I meant JHAS think the A380 contract is nearly there's.

[Romulus]

Welcome back, I have missed your input.
So you agree 5yrs/$100K is a bit excessive? I hope you can convince those at JHAS to reduce to 3 years max?
When I said they b4, I meant JHAS think the A380 contract is nearly there's.

The $100K represents less than the cost of the training and everything associated with it. Equally as far as I know we're bonding to a percentage of that, not the full amount.

The big problem with bonds in this situation is not that the LAMEs will want to leave, rather someone like Emirates will come along and make some offer to move to Dubai. The problem here isn't the cost of training, it's the loss of capability in the event EK or similar pinch too many people given teh scarcity of A380 training slots.

As for in the bag - nope. we're pushing hard to make a good offering and we have a good chance. I'd still rate us at 40% at best however. That is much better than the 5% we gave ourselves at the start.

[QF22]

I can see your point, although EK would have to pay much better than they are now to get me to the sandpit.
I hope you can also see my point? 5 years is a long time for someone to commit to an employer who they have never worked for, and under an AWA that they are a bit wary and unsure about.
Goodluck with the 380 contract, it's good to have a new player on the OZ aviation scene, and I hope QF is not just playing games with you.

[Hardworker]

Agree dont know why everyone thinks Emirates are fantastic payers, the money isnt great, sure tax free but only around the 65-70K AUD a year...plus you can only hold 4 ratings max....
The big payers for the A380 will come from European Airlines....

[chemical alli]

by using a bid process and selection criteria both jha and qf are the ones now worried about losing staff after training. training bonds do not keep employees, if anything they only highlite the importance of said employee in the industry once trained. whether it be 30k or 100k if another operator wants your services they will pay , also as yet untested in a court of law how many of these bonds would actually stand ? train me bond me and when another offer comes along , i like most would walk, if the t&c,s i currently work under are less and morale is low

soon australian lames will be moving companies just like europe lames do all over the ellusive dollar ,when loyalty is gone it is only the size of said employers cheque book that remains .

[Romulus]

I can see your point, although EK would have to pay much better than they are now to get me to the sandpit.
I hope you can also see my point? 5 years is a long time for someone to commit to an employer who they have never worked for, and under an AWA that they are a bit wary and unsure about.

Well, given we're not going with AWAs there's another furphy put to rest.


Goodluck with the 380 contract, it's good to have a new player on the OZ aviation scene, and I hope QF is not just playing games with you.

Me too.

:)

[Romulus]

Agree dont know why everyone thinks Emirates are fantastic payers, the money isnt great, sure tax free but only around the 65-70K AUD a year...plus you can only hold 4 ratings max....
The big payers for the A380 will come from European Airlines....

Possibly.

Equally with fleets of 5 or 6 or 12 (BA) then they're more likely to tap into existing services provided by others....

[Toolman101]

Well, given we're not going with AWAs

Rom
As a matter of interest, what sort of contract are you currently using to employee engineers. EBA C.A ?

Thanks

T101 :ok:

[Romulus]

Rom
As a matter of interest, what sort of contract are you currently using to employee engineers. EBA C.A ?

Thanks

T101

Collective agreement at Tulla negotiated with a number of unions led by Sharan Burrow herself. Paul Cousins and Mary Lambert represented ALAEA and were the providers of the most constructive input (IMO) from the "other" side.

Given the number of Unions involved there is a clause in the agreement that all issues are to be resolved via the ACTU Head Office, there is no way we want to get involved with Union demarcation disputes etc. so everything needs to go through an Industrial Officer who reports directly in to senior levels of the ACTU.

[mavrik1]

EK engineers paying 100k US for there A380 courses but bond could be shorter, not sure of that just yet. The other courses are 2 years per licence and added up if granted at same time.
Sounds like a bond for them to be able to treat you like **** for 5 years.
What happen to good old fashion good will. If someone gave me a license like that I would feel eblidged to stay for a few years to come unless conditions became dire. Since there isnt going to be to many operators at the start and JHAS has got in early they will be safe for a for a while as long as they don't piss anyone off.

[LME-400]

What happen to good old fashion good will.

From memory, some of it walked out the Qantas gate sometime back with an Irish accent.

[company_spy]

Well the cat is out of the bag so to speak, ACS have announced the chosen few who are to be trained on the A380. No surprises here, true to form ACS has not promoted on merit, but what is surprising is the group of geriactrics, big time operators, whingers, incompetents and skiving ergophobes they arrived at. The question on everyones lips is the obvious "who is actually going to get their hands dirty and work on the a/c once they have finnished arguing over who is going to be the boss?" Could be a few delays.........

[Big Unit]

Had to look it up....

Ergophobe
IN BRIEF: One who suffers from aversion to work.

Funny but true. Their mouths get plenty of work but the hands are all lacking somewhat. Should be good to watch from the sidelines. Typical QF cluster fcuk under our new 'uni' qualified management. Promotion based on merit, my arse it is.

[727ace]

:ugh:
would you expect anything different from management and Br#WN NOSERS.....

nothings changed since the old days :D

[company_spy]

Joke

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NR, AM, AP , ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha what a bunch of clowns. Anyone who goes on secondment isnt interested in getting their hands dirty and working on a/c, now chosen for these positions how will this change, you guys should stay in the seconded positions because that is all you think you are good at. Keep away from a/c and do everybody a favour.
27th November 2007 03:53

Maybe there is truth to the rumour that Q will be certify only and JHAS will be arms and legs only.......

[QF22]

Ha Ha Ha it may be the other way around ? JHAS start B1 conversion training this week ! QF will be flatout starting conversion by next year !

[Short_Circuit]

That's NOT funny.:yuk:

[AEROMEDIC]

Frankly, QA doesn't need to do it all.

[Romulus]

Ha Ha Ha it may be the other way around ? JHAS start B1 conversion training this week ! QF will be flatout starting conversion by next year !

Obvious answer is to come join us now that we have a few empty slots we could fill next week....

[chemical alli]

hey will i be based in syd romulus? with the morale at said airline so low maybe this week your hr department wont be able to handle all the enquires , although a mate of a mate applied for you guys and was politely denied ,think you let one fall through the cracks there ,top bloke great worker ,licenced up the wazoo,me thinks there maybe some collusion between companies , and maybe your hr is talking to my hr about said individuals ,i hope this not to be the case as it effects long term career choices

[wingers]

Gees Chemical....there is no way that Rom would be part of that...no way ....no no way......no way...no way...but there could be a possibility that JHAS has a very superior screening process, but no way has JHAS influenced any third party.....no way.....:uhoh:

[Romulus]

hey will i be based in syd romulus?


Would you like to be?


with the morale at said airline so low maybe this week your hr department wont be able to handle all the enquires , although a mate of a mate applied for you guys and was politely denied ,think you let one fall through the cracks there ,top bloke great worker ,licenced up the wazoo,me thinks there maybe some collusion between companies , and maybe your hr is talking to my hr about said individuals ,i hope this not to be the case as it effects long term career choices

Damn, busted.

Plus after he failed the CIA checks, the QF Police were around and seized the records and right now he is on his way to Guantanamo Bay.....

[Romulus]

Gees Chemical....there is no way that Rom would be part of that...no way ....no no way......no way...no way...but there could be a possibility that JHAS has a very superior screening process, but no way has JHAS influenced any third party.....no way.....:uhoh:

Maybe I'm finally understanding you wingers, are you asking if WE have been influenced by a third party as opposed to US influencing THEM?

[chemical alli]

hope he is wearing the orange jumpsuit at prison freedom,yes sydne4y would be nice ,do i get a company van too?

[AEROMEDIC]

"Damn, busted.

Plus after he failed the CIA checks, the QF Police were around and seized the records and right now he is on his way to Guantanamo Bay....."

It's a pity that you responded in that way to what appears to be a common situation.
In the past, when people have questioned your practices and recruitment staff levels you have been responded in a fair and open manner.
It doesn't take much to undo a lot of your credibility with responses like that to what seems a serious question.

[Romulus]

"Damn, busted.

Plus after he failed the CIA checks, the QF Police were around and seized the records and right now he is on his way to Guantanamo Bay....."

It's a pity that you responded in that way to what appears to be a common situation.
In the past, when people have questioned your practices and recruitment staff levels you have been responded in a fair and open manner.
It doesn't take much to undo a lot of your credibility with responses like that to what seems a serious question.

It's a serious question when someone chooses to allege "collusion between companies" on an anonymous forum because a "mate of a mate" didn't get a job?

I think not sir!

Hence I chose to go with sarcasm/wit (even if it is the lowest form).

Ask me sensible/serious questions and I'll give a serious answer. Ask a d*ckhead question and I will treat it accordingly. As I've said before I'll be straight up with people, including saying "I can't answer that" if there are legal or commercal reasons. Equally I'll poke fun at stupid questions.

Feel free to disagree with me, that's life in a democracy. My choice is to treat idiotic statements with the contempt they deserve.

[AEROMEDIC]

Yep, you're right , it is a democracy. I'm SURE you get a lot of d*head questions, but I wasn't referring to "collusion"..... just the suggestion that a good engineer had "fallen through the cracks".
It had been mentioned on several occasions that applicants hadn't heard from JHAS and also that some multi licensed individuals had been rejected.
You had dealt with those enquires in a fair manner.
That's all.

[Romulus]

Aero,

all good, sometimes we just have to laugh.

[VRBNE]

:) Thanks for all the good wishes will miss all my mates at qf when i finally leave but will not miss the almighty mess with qf managers and the unions.SORRY THE QF MANAGERS CANT SEE FURTHER THAN THEIR NOSES MAYBE SOME OF US WOULD HAVE STAYED IF NEW GEN AIRCRAFT WERE OFFERED TO ALL.Is that JHAS i here calling come and get the A380 and 787.Cheers and all the best to all of you left behind:ugh::ok:

[chemical alli]

hey romulus why so sensitive, i said a mate of a mate as a bit of a laugh , but the said individual was quite concerned after applying to you guys and getting knocked back.not saying i would know anything of your reference chk process or why he was knocked back.but sometimes the conspiracy theories run true .half of the airline game runs on innuendo,lies deceipt and conspiracy whether true or false.
lighten up romulus if i have offended you or your company i sincerely apoligise ,see you in brisvegas ,good luck

[Romulus]

Chem,

There's a difference between overly sensitive and the pleasure derived from telling someone to scarper.

But why are you so sensitive? Some can dish it but not take it. Others accept it's a two way street.

[The Mr Fixit]

So Romulus thus far you have been quite honest with us about who you are and what JHAS do. I wish to toss you a couple of curly ones

An associate of mine in mgt at QF tells me two things that

(1) Qantas paid for JHAS A380 training.

and

(2) that the compromise for 'losing' the bid to Qantas Engineering will be that JHAS will provide contract labour ie arms and legs for A380 ground handling on Qantas aircraft.

are these statements true ?

[company_spy]

This A380 crap is bigger than us all apparently. The Qantas legends can have it as they are a league of their own. This was demonstrated perfectly yesterday when the wife of one of the legends was questioned about her out of date H96 induction only to say F__K OFF to the inductor, with an associated F__K OFF from her legend 'soon to be an Emirates manager so lets give him the 380 husband 'and low and behold the inductor has had a complaint filed against him with HR for harassment. The people who breathe through their ears can have the 380!

[Romulus]

So Romulus thus far you have been quite honest with us about who you are and what JHAS do. I wish to toss you a couple of curly ones

Nothing particularly curly here


An associate of mine in mgt at QF tells me two things that

(1) Qantas paid for JHAS A380 training.


We are at the stage in the engineering process where we charge the client, Qantas in this case, for all sorts of activities that we commit resources to. For instance - we have a number of project managers, training people, LAMEs, AMEs etc doing a whole bunch of work on a cost reimbursable basis. Training falls into this category - we're committing to a substantial amount of work, we expect Qantas to commit to paying for that work. This has been honoured.

In the wider engineering world this is a regular practice as it keeps the ultimate price down for the client i.e. set up costs are paid once and once only rather than inflating the hourly rates on an ongoing basis.

Hopefully for this answers your question, for reasons of commercial confidentiality I can't go much further with the process. Suffice to say standard commercial practices have been applied.



(2) that the compromise for 'losing' the bid to Qantas Engineering will be that JHAS will provide contract labour ie arms and legs for A380 ground handling on Qantas aircraft.


This one is incorrect although it certainly makes sense for us to utilise the skillset of people to the greatest extent possible. Given that the majority of the contract comprises human effort it doesn't really make sense for Qantas to go this way as it will ultimately lead to an inefficient solution.

[Romulus]

This A380 crap is bigger than us all apparently. The Qantas legends can have it as they are a league of their own. This was demonstrated perfectly yesterday when the wife of one of the legends was questioned about her out of date H96 induction only to say F__K OFF to the inductor, with an associated F__K OFF from her legend 'soon to be an Emirates manager so lets give him the 380 husband 'and low and behold the inductor has had a complaint filed against him with HR for harassment.

Wouldn't such actions constitute a wilful and deliberate breach of OH&S regs?

Assuming the facts are as given the complainant may find they just dug themselves into a much deeper hole than they can imagine....

[Short_Circuit]

:= Please be assured QF can not touch you for acting in your role as OH&S The Act states;
http://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/fullhtml/inforce/act+40+2000+FIRST+0+N#pt.2-div.3-sec.22




22 Employer not to charge employees for things done or provided pursuant to statutory requirementAn employer must not impose a charge on an employee, or permit a charge to be imposed on an employee, for anything done or provided in pursuance of a specific requirement of this Act or the regulations. Maximum penalty:(a) in the case of a corporation (being a previous offender)—3,750 penalty units, or(b) in the case of a corporation (not being a previous offender)—2,500 penalty units, or(c) in the case of an individual (being a previous offender)—375 penalty units, or(d) in the case of an individual (not being a previous offender)—250 penalty units.

[chemical alli]

hey romulus , never sensitive always smiling, have a laugh not everything is the conspiracy or one sided ,as stated sorry if offended but thick skin on forums help.met half of your blokes today rom not bad enjoy the 380

[Romulus]

hey romulus , never sensitive always smiling, have a laugh not everything is the conspiracy or one sided ,as stated sorry if offended but thick skin on forums help.met half of your blokes today rom not bad enjoy the 380

Gotta win it yet. We're punching above our weight at the moment but sometimes the small guy wins.

Relax about offending me, counterpunching presents its own opportunities.

[Romulus]

:= Please be assured QF can not touch you for acting in your role as OH&S The Act states;
http://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/fu...2-div.3-sec.22

And rightfully so.

I suspect Mrs F.Off has just dug hubby a huge hole which he in turn made bigger.

Some things can be argued, OH&S isn't one of them.

Yours

The Workboot nazi.

[Short_Circuit]

Hi Rom,

Glad to see Management with a gasp on reality.

If I were 20 years younger, I would be right there with you, unfortunately,

I am stuck with QF Super. Can’t loose that and a possible redundancy, soon.

S_cct ( a candidate for wide body B1 + B2 right now) :ugh:

[cementhead]

talk on the street today romulus is john holland is ahead of the race a lot of people believe you will win it,was that you today in sydney looking around the 380

[company_spy]

we're committing to a substantial amount of work, we expect Qantas to commit to paying for that work. This has been honoured

So Qantas has already turned over a cheque, first one? howbig? The petty dramas the A380 princesses are carrying on with seem to be working in your favour! How much are you paying? I would thoroughly enjoy sitting through EASA conversion and A380 type training only to belittle the puppets with limited ability that are about to be signed to the task.

[company_spy]

If I were 20 years younger, I would be right there with you, unfortunately,

I am stuck with QF Super. Can’t loose that and a possible redundancy, soon.

Attitudes like that will only stuff it for the future generation.
You lack balls and vision, we don't want you involved in this
latest EBA get it in your head its not all about you!

[Short_Circuit]

CS,
Where did I say I was in favour of the EBA, I am not,
I will not vote to accept it, it is cr@p!

I said regarding super etc., I will stick around until next VR and run.
I would like to run to JHAS but I will leave the positions for
you younger guys. My sacrafice to the youth of engineering.:)
I have had enough, I am bailing out.
Good luck to all of you in your future.

[Romulus]

talk on the street today romulus is john holland is ahead of the race a lot of people believe you will win it,was that you today in sydney looking around the 380

We're certainly making progress, if nothing else I think we've changed certan ACS management perceptions of how we do things.

As for site visits, we only send people who know what they're talking about, whilst I'd appreciate the jolly I wouldn't add any value whatsoever so there's no point me being there.

Plus I am particularly big and ugly so we don't want to scare off potential new employees....

:)

[Romulus]

So Qantas has already turned over a cheque, first one? howbig?

Um, I know you don't really expect me to answer that so how about I go with...

More than a LAME earns, less than Geoff earns....

:)



The petty dramas the A380 princesses are carrying on with seem to be working in your favour!


Well, it certainly isn't hurting us...


How much are you paying?


It really varies. We want a spread of older experienced hands through to relatively new younger hands. Some of the older blokes get more becasue they have 320 and NG licences as well which makes them more useful across the rest of the business.

Essentially it's all pretty individually tailored.


I would thoroughly enjoy sitting through EASA conversion and A380 type training only to belittle the puppets with limited ability that are about to be signed to the task.

Always and interesting discussion. I fundamentally disagree with the ALAEA position that the number of licences should be a determinant, equally, if what I am told is correct, then I disagree with selecting people who have no hands on time in the recent past.

But that's just our approach, othersmay, and obviously do, disagree.

[rudderless1]

I fail to see anywhere the ALAEA has said the number of licenses you hold determines your suitability.

However the company seems to rely heavily on a vacuum gauge.

The ALAEA is pursuing a fair and legitimate selection process, multi license does not necessarily mean you are the best candidate. Working on the project as an office boy or having no prerequisites and being selected must raise some question though. Which is where the ALAEA is at the moment.

Sadly QF has a bloody minded and deceitful management in regards to their employees and is and will continue to harm the company. Thank Christ the ALAEA is active again.:ok:

Lets be fair Romulos

[chemical alli]

true sometimes number of licences shouldnt be a determent, but then again if it reduces said individuals easa conversion training, to me it makes sense to employ,the most qualified in the lame field not the desk jockeys who think they know how to service an aircraft,some of these people will be required to travel and handle the aircraft at line stations ,then does experience come into play ,i ask will the fast talking help in a delay situation when you dont know what your talking about

[Romulus]

I fail to see anywhere the ALAEA has said the number of licenses you hold determines your suitability.

It's covered in one of their releases.


Sadly QF has a bloody minded and deceitful management in regards to their employees and is and will continue to harm the company.


From what I hear I have no argument with this either.




Thank Christ the ALAEA is active again.:ok:

Lets be fair Romulos


I try.

[Torqueman]

Plus I am particularly big and ugly so we don't want to scare off potential new employees....

:)

Not a bad sense of humour too from what I see here!

Good on ya.

[mavrik1]

So Roms, do you how many LAMES/AMES, JHAS still has to require before the contract is won and how many after! Is there really engineer shortage or are they coming in from everywhere for a peice of the action!

[Redstone]

So Roms, do you how many LAMES/AMES, JHAS still has to require before the contract is won and how many after! Is there really engineer shortage or are they coming in from everywhere for a peice of the action!

They are still advertising for LAE's in the Oz for a potential 380 gig, so they either haven't found enough blokes of the required standard, or they forgot to stop the ad.

[company_spy]

looks like the A380 team leader cant keep his yap shut.once again spuiking to all and sundry about his new three year posting to dubai,guess emirates will be happy to see such a stand up individual with so much experience. all on expenses too.at least the boys in syd base wont have to put up with that **** eating grin