OPS UNIONS?

[SNOOPY 22]

Hey guys,

currently work for an outfit that a lot of people feel have let them down in various ways and basically exploit u as much as they can for as little money as possible ( i know - sounds like most Ops depts)

anyway I am looking to form an Ops union in our Company so we can put across our points more strongly

does anyone know of any Airline that has an Ops union? if so would appreciate any info on how to get started as I have no idea where to start

Regards

Snoop



[This message has been edited by SNOOPY 22 (edited 07 March 2001).]

[lalapanzi]

Snoopy - as good as this idea sounds, I would imagine that it is doomed to failure. Please don't misunderstand this and feel it is a put-down, as it is not meant to be.

Briefly - back in the dawn of time (+20yrs) when I first ventured into Ops, that company had a staff union, which was there to represent not just the ops staff but also those of passenger handling. Sadly within a short time it fell by the wayside, partly because of the attitude of the management, but more importantly the attitude of the staff - couldn't be bothered to come to any meetings. Staff unable to agree just what they wanted.
Since then and in all the other company's I have worked it was been the managements attitude - this is what you're getting like it or leave it. The art of negotiation has died other than for handling contracts!
A major hurdle you will need to overcome will be, being taken seriously. Ops departments on their own are very small units, and although the nerve center of an airline lacks teeth. On the basis you have 4 controllers + assistants, it is going to be 8 against the 'management'. Therefore, dependant on the structure of your company what other departments can you include that have a 'common interest'?
You will also need to decide just what it is you are looking to achieve with this union. Apart from salary (major player) what other terms and conditions are you looking to improve upon? Things that come to mind - pension, medical, travel concessions & leave.
Then you have to be very weary of not being 'tarred' as a 'problem employee', if you get my meaning.
All in all a contentious issue which I wish you well with. :)

------------------
say it with icons!

[vipero]

Dear Soopy,

in Italy we had some discussions about forming a Ops Union, but realized that can hardly work (calling strikes in major airline is a pain in the neck, in private companies could mean a serious damage, and we are much more carefull than pilots, aren't we?). What we are doing now is to form the IFALDA (Italian Flight Dispatcher Association) that already joined the EUFALDA (European Association).
Our task is to educate airline's managements and aeronautical authorities about the importance of flight dispatch. Jar-ops themselves are not considering flight dispatch very much, and our fight at present is to highlight the need to involve flight dispatch as a basic of flight safety and general airline's economy.
In the States and Japan this is well understood (flight dispatchers are co-responsible together with pilots), in Europe there's a long walk to get that goal...but we're full of shoes!
Ciao
Paolo

"Flight Dispatchers tell pilots where to go"

[shedboys]

awww ! poor snoop feels let down, never mind, Alpha and ICS both have a union !!!
Sure your new irish collegues are just glad to have jobs old boy. Still, bet your bosses are just loving this, must be fairly top heavy in there now with Ops Controllers, funny that down the pub, most guys seem happy to have a job, never mind, keep working on that CAP 371.


Shed Heaven
----------------------------------------
Never underestimate the power of the shed

[shedboys]

You could call it
L ondon
O perators
O perations
S taff
E mployer
R elations

Get a life,
Shedboys
----------------------------------
Never underestimate the power of the shed

[SNOOPY 22]

yeah,yeah - keep on reeling off the crap boys - maybe oneday you might become a proper airline!

anyhow - no matter how bad this place gets - it will never be as bad as The Shed!

and what is it with this CAP371 crap? Sounds like you boys need it more than I after looking at the Rumours page on Flight deck site

[OpsBoy]

...the power of the shed seem to be following you around Snoop..

[vipero]

ehm...sorry guys, what shed stands for exactly in this particular occasion?
I see on my vocabulary "to dismiss" and many other meanings...
Ciao
Paolo

[NORMAN NO MATES]

I hear the shed boys are some small outfit based in CBG.

------------------
"WILL YOU BE MY FRIEND"

[whose ya daddy!]

sounds like the shed boys are the real dead wood outfit! They are bitter and twisted about there positions for sure! perhaps you should spend a week here at a real airline, then you may know a little more what you are chattin about!! until such a time, good luck in your dead end jobbies shedboys!!
:rolleyes:

------------------
Rgds W.Y.D.

[fractional]

The only thing I would say is that all the Despatcher Associations have done is insufficient work to make us play a major role within a Flight Ops dept and be paid accordingly.
Look at the board members of those associations. Usually, they are guys with good status and payslip at the end of the month.
All civil aviations should create legislation to ensure all aviation commercial operators have licensed despatchers at any given time.
With or without an established mechanism, the ratio crew/acft movements versus despatchers on duty should be a start basis.
The problem is that Civil Aviations do little in that respect and operator are quite happy to keep things that way.
There ia now an opportunity for the Europeans. JAA is in place, soon to be replaced by something else but, this is a golden opportunity to ensure we have a rightful gain.
One should not forget that you cannot start from the top, but one should have the right to claim a decent salary as long as he/she performs a quality job.
Basically, what is the difference between a brand new F/O (new entrant=few hrs) and a brand new ICAO/FAA licensed despatcher? Now, look at the real salaries of the example.
Rgds.

[You splitter]

Nice idea, but have to agree with the majority of posts questioning the viability of this notion. You face opposition on two sides.
Airline management are the most obvious. With the likes of BALPA, and such, to contend with already, they are never going to accept another major workforce within the industry becoming as well organised or represented.

The second is the other unions themselves, or to be perfectly blunt, the pilots. If you looked back over the last twenty years you would probably find a well trained, resourceful and hard working Duty officer, would be equal to a senior first officer in the pay scale. Not now chaps! If you want to be really synical about it then ask your self this. Everytime the pilot unions improve working conditions for their members, better their working condtions or reduce their working hours (leading to needing to employ more staff), then do you honestly think that additional cost is swallowed by the investors or shareholders.
Of course not. It is covered by reducing costs elsewhere. i.e us!

This isn't meant to degenerate into pilot bashing. Everyone has the right strive to better their position and value. Their unions have many years behind them, and to achieve that sort of 'punch' takes time, hard work and educating of the industry.

Before Ops or dispatch can seriously think about having some sort of eqivilant representation we must put ourselves into a position of becoming valued for the job we do, and the contibution we make to the industry. First things first. Lets get that licence. Some sort of recognised qualification in order to do the job would do nothing but good for our position as a profession, and ultimately nothing but good for those people at the pointy end whos lives are affected by way we do our jobs each day. Many pilots seem to scorn the idea of us being properly trained and qulaified in our jobs. Why? If I was you I would rather have someone at the other end of the phone (or radio) who knew exactly what they were doing and took pride in it as well. Instead there seems to be a growing trend of employing complete 'newbies', giving 'em half a weeks training and then throwing the unfortunate sods in at the deep end. Why? Cause you don't have to pay em much to do it!

Ok maybe some of the above a bit over the top and almost deserving of an 'X-Files' award for conspiracy plots, but maybe not so far from the truth if you look at the overall big picture.

At the end of the day, whatever you do, have fun doing it!